This theme is why I won't go next year

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:47 am

I have been to the mountain-top.
I can see the valley on the other side.
I can smell something burning down there.

Burner till death · Post by **Burner till death** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:59 am

Its a trick. everytime someone tells me "is something burning?" I just get a snout full of colon dust

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:02 pm

Xhile wrote: The main thing that would stop me coming is money; it costs $3000 minimum just to to buy a ticket and get from my country to BM. So it very much is an elitist festival.

Rich folks taking lots of drugs while the poor rot.

*stir stir*

I live just 260 miles from BRC...I have NO job and NO money ....three kids and a serious undeniable need that rivals the instinct of birds in migration to go to Burningman every year regaurdless of the theme..its always worth going. However, in my history- Ive spent thousands and then Ive spent virtually nothing to go..It depends on how resorcefull you are and how clever..apply that to your opinion of the theme and GET YOUR ASS TO THE BURN...

I aint cash rich..just rich with love and creativity..I am broke but not in spirit.....I understand the hussle and the gift economy FULLY...if YOU are a gift- you do fairly well......the poor dont " rot"..those who opt out do so outta choise not resorses..if you have a shitty time - perhaps it can be rectified by a change of perspective,not dignifying drama-or moving away from the camp next to you that is dripping in retro-disco inhalables...

for me -my guess was that the burn was 'nt just watered down with spectators who didnt read the BM website threads-ie The MANual-but that it was a wash in the re-emergance of a blizzard of cocaine that has permiated our tribe with the side effects of ego-centered self importance and indignant perpetual bitchy-osity that becomes sooo fucking boring to listen to when those indulgants mix it with alchohol.( i.e. " SLOW THE FUCK DOWN ASS HOLE!! instead of -"welcome Home" ) For fuck sake people..go beatnik and get back into speed...at least youll be more interesting and less" Less than Zero."
It wasnt the Greenman it was the Whiteman.

I love that you TRAVEL to BM..cause the journey is a big part of the actual appriciation of the event.
My question is were you rich
or poor?

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:10 pm

AntiM wrote:Do read up on "Manifest Destiny" before using the two words together. Yes, I know, you said "manifesting destiny" but the words put a chill down my spine. Manifest Destiny was a 19th century idea that we, the white Americans, were destined to rule the continent and have no outside interference from Europe. Manifest Destiny excused the massacres, relocations and the reservations, land grabs and war.

May as well call the event "Trail of Tears."

It was shitty for some and awesome for others because of the end of slaverey and the potential for black americans to aquire land in the west..with the forty acres and a mule. Fuck it I loved Andrew Jackson! The Gold rush was pretty bitchen too.." Welcome to the open heart of the WILD WEST Mutha FUCKAH!" How many of this last years citizens EVEN KNOW where that come s from?
There are still wagon wheel tracks on the open playa from the great western migration...
We are the explorers and malitia of the open mind- The patriots of free expression and inaliable rights. BURNINGMAN is about LIBERTY- you practice it when you are at the event.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:28 pm

Reminds me of a bad bumper sticker.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:18 pm

Alchemy wrote: It was shitty for some and awesome for others because of the end of slaverey and the potential for black americans to aquire land in the west..with the forty acres and a mule.

Um, really. Wikepedia begs to disagree. In fact, the only things that come to my gifted-with-a-somewhat-better-feel-for-history-than-the-average-american-mind about freed slaves in the west is their having to take crappy jobs like cowboy and the Buffalo Soldiers. As far as I know, most blacks stayed in the south until the 20th century, and a lot were merely in the just better than chattel slavery state called sharecropping. I live in the west, I love the west, but there is no denying that I do live here on a foundation of broken treaties and genocide.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:05 pm

ravenluv · Post by **ravenluv** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:44 pm

unjonharley wrote:raven, said blah blah.. i said yawn i think i need to take a leak.. to many word.. raven must have too much time on hand.. maybe you should try to be priductive once..

true on all counts!

i never worry about whether i'm productive. or even priductive. if i could get through my entire life without accomplishing anything, it would be an accomplishment. my 'productivity', such as it is, is an accident born of my body's incessant need to be fed and protected.

perhaps this theme is just too accomplishment-oriented for my lazy tastes.
no...wait, i'm sure of it.

but no matter. the theme will not influence any burning man related decisions i make. i just like to argue and explore lines of thinking.

in other words....

blah, blah. and furthermore, blah.

-and then they whined, why must you be so whiny?-

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:15 am

I'd reather have the theme be "nazi germany" or "lets kill some fags". Maybe that would get all of you people who dont care about this theme to give a shit. Go ahead and post a baby crying below me, Im looking forward to it![/quote]

I beleive those themes were considered, but have since been regulated to projects to be funded for the typical" BooHoo political art"that will populate the area surrounding 'The Temple of Whining Hippie' this next year.Cant wait to see your work.This year promises to be The Best Year EVER!!

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:17 am

Badger wrote:Reminds me of a bad bumper sticker.

you mean like..BRC?
cynic..you bettah smile when ya say that boy!

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:25 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Alchemy wrote: It was shitty for some and awesome for others because of the end of slaverey and the potential for black americans to aquire land in the west..with the forty acres and a mule.
Um, really. Wikepedia begs to disagree. In fact, the only things that come to my gifted-with-a-somewhat-better-feel-for-history-than-the-average-american-mind about freed slaves in the west is their having to take crappy jobs like cowboy and the Buffalo Soldiers. As far as I know, most blacks stayed in the south until the 20th century, and a lot were merely in the just better than chattel slavery state called sharecropping. I live in the west, I love the west, but there is no denying that I do live here on a foundation of broken treaties and genocide.

Okay you got me there..but besides ALL the stuff you mentioned and the killings.and the war against the native indiginous peoples...and the maybe two black people who felt they had a chance with the Manifest Destiny thing..it was pretty cool...I mean come on..forty bucks was alotta money!!
Hey and dont forget the Irish right? the Irish did better by this great push to take land across the states to be! I mean next to the black people -they were the chosen slave of the times..Things got way better when they could get away from gettin fucked in the civil war and suck up some land ,own a mule and with two Andrew Jacksons in their pockets huh?

barnz · Post by **barnz** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:16 am

Alchemy wrote:...

Alchy -
I can't tell, are you kidding? Are you serious?

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:00 pm

I can't tell, are you kidding? Are you serious?

Yes

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:41 pm

scratches her head

Uh, so where were these Irish supposed to be? AFIK, they were rioting in NY over the freed slaves because that was just so many more to compete for the few jobs available to those without resources or education. Just like any other unregulated federal program, the real goods went to the (upper) middle class - people with at least a little education and who were socially connected enough to get in on the programs.

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:50 pm

barnz wrote:
Alchemy wrote:...
Alchy -
I can't tell, are you kidding? Are you serious?

and call me Chemy..

Steven bradford · Post by **Steven bradford** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:54 am

Hah. I'm amused by the assumption that because you didn't see many african americans in old movie westerns, they must not have been in "the west" in the 19th century.

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:41 pm

Well, I wouldn't make that assumption that people are making assumptions. I suppose some could have gone and had all their family lines die out. Or possibly their families got run off by the white people who also joined in the settlement rush.

I know people from Kansas who never saw a black person in person. Ever. I attended a rural high school without a single non-white. Because there aren't any in Kansas outside the urban areas. The same could be said of Iowa, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado and probably a lot of other places further west that I'm not as familiar with.

I had a professor who studied African-American history. He was an archaeologist, because they have no actual written record for their history. He's excavated a slave colony village that was founded in central Illinois by freed slaves, trying to figure out why it failed. He wasn't able to discern that. There were slaves that were owned in the state of Missouri. When freed, they gathered together with others, for protection and support, in the cities.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:08 pm

Kinda hard to miss that after the civil war more than 40% of cow hands (ie cowboys) west of the Mississippi were African-American males up until the 1890's.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:07 am

http://www.buffalosoldiers.com/

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:57 am

Well yeah, there were a lot of black cowboys. Because it was a hard, dirty, underpaid job. Was it better than slavery? Yes. Was it the fulfillment of their fondest dreams, I'm sure it varied from hand to hand, but in the aggregate, probably no.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:17 pm

Boy... is this thread off topic...

Frankly · Post by **Frankly** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:47 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote: after the Green thing, don't be surprised on this being the best BM ever!

I have to relearn my acronyms.

Draguin · Post by **Draguin** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:30 pm

Am I the only one that interpretted it as "Burn the American Dream"?

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:12 am

Am I the only one that interpretted it as "Burn the American Dream"?

Haha, interesting take on it. Now I'm wondering if you think we should burn the American dream or that we already are burning the American dream.

bigbluedoggy · Post by **bigbluedoggy** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:48 pm

You need to roll it a little looser next time... it got all gunked up!

Draguin · Post by **Draguin** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:01 pm

[quote="MikeVDS"]
Haha, interesting take on it. Now I'm wondering if you think we should burn the American dream or that we already are burning the American dream.[/quote]

My personal belief is that the American dream has been morphed into an self-centered-materialistic nightmare. In other words burners are already burning the American dream. The 'norms' need to start with the burning.

Silverwheel · Post by **Silverwheel** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:18 pm

I wonder if it wasn't a self-centered-materialistic nightmare to start with - it just took a few decades for technology and the temporary wealth of empire to allow it to mature.

Thoughts?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:34 pm

I think all peoples who have the kind of wealth we have/had and are sheltered from certain realities become decadent. A few persons may be able to see through it, but collectively it's very difficult because our best learning comes from certain kinds of suffering (although not all suffering is educational--or educational in a good way.) That's pretty off the cuff but it's all I got now.

As a side note, what I've noticed is how clueless on certain levels people who havent' been poor are.

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:58 pm

Silverwheel wrote:I wonder if it wasn't a self-centered-materialistic nightmare to start with - it just took a few decades for technology and the temporary wealth of empire to allow it to mature.

Thoughts?

You know, I actually kind of agree with this. It was all about "To hell with my place in society, I'm gonna get rich - make a nice home for my myself and my kids and the rest of you all can rot." Seriously, the freedoms we enjoy were (at least partially) supported out of a pure, unadulterated greed. Greed isn't a new motivation that's been raised since the era of plastics and technology. It's been around longer than war.

So I as you to just look at the (Republican!) governor elect of Louisiana. He really is the embodiment of the American Dream and he'll be glad to elaborate if you wish. It's so hard to believe that that guy is in the same political party as David Duke...

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:22 pm

its not specifically an american dream, its a general trend to a better living standard all countries aspire to. commercial production and consumption is the framework of economics countries use to achieve this.

despite divisions of wealth and other various other problems, which have historically been a hell of a lot worse than those are now, commercial production and consumption has turned out to be an evolved form of development for some good reasons. if the trend continues to provide billions of people a better life as developing countries reach the same level of success, personally, i dont mind if a smaller percentage become decadent or somewhat clueless of what its like to suffer. in fact if the vast majority of people finally achieve that state then i consider it a success of working towards wiping out things like poverty, malnutrition, and disease.

for the most part the united states has achieved that, not completely yet but i imagine it will continue to increase for the better over long terms. the rest.. that just strikes me as a struggle for a group of people to re-define themselves and what they strive for once those dreams have been achieved.

This theme is why I won't go next year

Whining About...

oh

whoops..

Re: whoops..

Re: whoops..

Theme?

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year