Help Prosecute Paul Addis

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:04 pm

Stryder wrote:No problem with staying away from the things you don't like, I'm just curious how many of the nay-sayers actually checked out the 'exhibits'....

I was/am someone who expressed skepticism about the concept of the corporate pavilion, and I went to check it out. For myself I needed data to form a firm opinion.

Frankly I found the displays to be less than inspiring. With very little interactivity and lots of environmental data presented via text and simple images, I found the place to be reminiscent of a moderately large county fair. On the other hand, I didn't see anything there that seemed to conflict more strongly with the 'no commerce,' notion than does center camp, all of the cash exchanges that do occur between participants, or the ice stations. All that to say, I found the corporate pavilion to be a nonevent, not really impressive in either a positive or negative personal direction. (Meaning AG was right in her prediction, btw)

Ron

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:04 pm

So Ron, what was your impression from talking with people who put together some of the installations, either before or after the arson?

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:54 am

My impression of what, Bob?

Ron

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:24 pm

Just what I said -- did you talk to any of them to verify your assessment of their inspiration, or just look at stuff?

Curious what it has to do with the topic. Plenty of people or theme camps or installations might seem "less than inspiring" to some people. Doesn't mean they're more worthy of being burned out by an arsonist, if that's what you're implying.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:24 pm

Nope, that's not what I was saying at all. My perception of the quality of a work of art has nothing do with the fact that it's the creator/owner's exclusive right to (decide to) burn it. And my impressions of a piece of art, as a piece of art, tends to be created independent of any conversations with the artist, unless such is part of the work. Something that didn't appear to be the case in the corporate pavilion.

Talking to the artist to, "verify (my) assessment of their inspiration," isn't something I'd do. Talk with them to have a honest moment of interaction with another human being? Absolutely, that's one of my favorite things to do at the burn. But check my perception of their work through them? Nah, not what I'm there for.

Someone asked for the opinion of a person who was negatively inclined towards the corporate pavilion, and who had then visited it. Matching that description, I gave my opinion.

Ron

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:56 pm

so bob, do you support him getting twenty years in prison?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:22 pm

spectabillis wrote:so bob, do you support him getting twenty years in prison?

Jesus, I posted my opinion on that upthread. And I wouldn't go so far as to contact the prosecutors simply because I wasn't there, even though something I helped build was probably right underneath at the time.

ObTopic, I understand there may be all sorts of photographic evidence available, possibly in 3-D. Good luck to the little shithead.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:43 pm

bob, your relevant comment ...

Re: the alleged perp, I don't really care a lot what happens, I just hope the law is as fair as in any similar case. I still think having him work on a Nevada fire crew for a couple years would be more than fair, but given that he was an attorney and should have known better, I really don't care a lot.

from your comment my guess was no, you didnt think he should get twenty years and a fair sentance would be two years mandatory work with a nevada state firefighting group, or maybe one determined by the blm.

but i asked because its confusing that for someone who doesnt care, you post and question A LOT over it.

Flammepus · Post by **Flammepus** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:14 am

As posted on another thread:

First convict, then sue as a class action. Let the law do its thing, then allow the community to use the law to make their point. What I would support as a criminal punishment is irrelevant, as a judge will ultimately make that point or not. Civil recourse is an interesting way for people to personally let this fukwit know what they think of him. And, yes, just to show that it is not about materialism, donate any leins or settlements to burners without boarders... Works for me.

KitsuneCaligari · Post by **KitsuneCaligari** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:48 am

If there was any lingering doubts....

http://home.comcast.net/~playaitch/b7mana.htm

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:38 am

tired of bickering? Then take a break and post somethiing in my thread over at 2007 Art and Performance entitled Positive Vibes about Great Art and Acts. Try it, say something good about all the incredibly wonderful things out there this year! Take a moment and rejoice!

We resume our regularly scheduled programming

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:26 pm

I think OJ had a hand in it.

burningflyer · Post by **burningflyer** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:07 am

Paul Addis violated many of the BLM Special Stipulations for Burning Man Event. His actions and the possibility that others will emulate his behavior, threatens the possibility of future events on the Black Rock Desert for all of us.

http://www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca/NEPA/b ... ndices.pdf

"Any violation of the permit terms, conditions and stipulations may be subject to penalties prescribed in 43 CFR 2930. Additionally, any such violation may result in permit revocation, suspension, or probation. Violations may also be cause for the BLM to deny approval of a subsequent Permit or Operating Authorization"

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:26 pm

burningflyer wrote:Paul Addis violated many of the BLM Special Stipulations for Burning Man Event. His actions and the possibility that others will emulate his behavior, threatens the possibility of future events on the Black Rock Desert for all of us.

http://www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca/NEPA/b ... ndices.pdf

"Any violation of the permit terms, conditions and stipulations may be subject to penalties prescribed in 43 CFR 2930. Additionally, any such violation may result in permit revocation, suspension, or probation. Violations may also be cause for the BLM to deny approval of a subsequent Permit or Operating Authorization"

I would think that this applys to the event organizers and workers. It would totally suck donkey dick if our community is punished for the actions of one lone gunman.

KitsuneCaligari · Post by **KitsuneCaligari** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:03 pm

[quote="Toolmaker"][quote="burningflyer"][b]Paul Addis violated many of the BLM Special Stipulations for Burning Man Event. His actions and the possibility that others will emulate his behavior, threatens the possibility of future events on the Black Rock Desert for all of us. [/b]

http://www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca/NEPA/b ... ndices.pdf

"Any violation of the permit terms, conditions and stipulations may be subject to penalties prescribed in 43 CFR 2930. Additionally, any such violation may result in permit revocation, suspension, or probation. Violations may also be cause for the BLM to deny approval of a subsequent Permit or Operating Authorization"[/quote]

I would think that this applys to the event organizers and workers. It would totally suck donkey dick if our community is punished for the actions of one lone gunman.[/quote]

Hate to say it, but if the BLM really wanted BM off the playa, this would be the way to do it - and while you are correct that it would apply to the organizers, it's the organizers that jump through the hoops for the permits from the BLM - if they get slapped down for this, then it's a pretty safe assumption that the Burning Man community will be effected.

Which is why it always amuses me when folks badmouth the LLC for being greedheads or the DPW for being arrogant bastards - it's their work that makes Black Rock City the happy-fun-time place we all know and love, and they are the ones who took on the responsibility for the job....

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:48 pm

about 20 minutes before he torched the man and redeemed himself from annoying us while we were drinking and humiliating his cracky ass bi-polriod presence..perhaps he burned the man just to impress the haters at Piccasso who told him he was a virgin and to piss off.
In which case I say, REDEEMED!

thank you Paul for fucking the burn.
it was all the more enjoyable cause this year was a little lacking in fearless burnatude.

anything can and will happen at BM.
GET USED TO IT AND QUIT YER BITCHIN!
Personally Im gonns make a sexy t-shirt of him and wear it to De-com.

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:07 pm

Exactly. Fucking the burn.
Honestly, I don't need that kind of shithead behavior around me. I don't care if people like him burn down whatever they like, as long as it belongs to them. Now PA has given permission for every misanthropic firebug to burn shit 'just cause he FEELS like it'. Pathetic.
And I don't by this crap about it being a 'wake up call' to the LLC, the BM community, or anybody that doesn't adhere to HIS dogma. What a fucking hypocrit! If he has a beef with them, he can act like an adult and go talk to them about what's on his mind, instead of this juvenile, chicken shit arson crap.
The old Burning Man ethos of 'fucking shit up' went out with the dinosaurs that attended prior to '96. The days of the 'drive by shooting range' are over. Time to grow up.
Quite your bitchin that 'BM ain't what it used to be'. We know. If you're so badly looking for a 'dangerous fun' experience, go enlist, or better yet go work for Blackwater. At least you'll get better pay than our soldiers do for getting maimed.

Fire! Fire! Hehe. hehehheh! Fire! heheheh!

Alchemy wrote:about 20 minutes before he torched the man and redeemed himself from annoying us while we were drinking and humiliating his cracky ass bi-polriod presence..perhaps he burned the man just to impress the haters at Piccasso who told him he was a virgin and to piss off.
In which case I say, REDEEMED!

thank you Paul for fucking the burn.
it was all the more enjoyable cause this year was a little lacking in fearless burnatude.

I really do hope you 'make a sexy T-shirt of him'. But at 5'3", I don' think you're going to get much material, but he still would make a great asshat.

anything can and will happen at BM.'
GET USED TO IT AND QUIT YER BITCHIN!
Personally Im gonns make a sexy t-shirt of him and wear it to De-com.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:52 pm

Stryder wrote:Exactly. Fucking the burn... Now PA has given permission for every misanthropic firebug to burn shit 'just cause he FEELS like it'. Pathetic.

omfg everyone is going to burn everything now! burningman is so ruined! oh the humanity huge manatee!

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:01 am

herehere everyone making a hugemanatee hype...have a fucken tissue and get over it! Burn it when your done, cause I dont want your cooties!

It seems to me, that paul has won...meaning he wanted a big hype with his name in lights, and well seems like he got his wish.
The better way of handling it would have been to move on past it, like so many have. But to continueously conversate and be opinionated about it...gives it fuel, so to speak.GRANTS his wish, his motive.This is EXACTLY what he wanted! So Brittany shaved her head, bad publicity, but funny thing is everyone stopped looking at her crotch!

"ya so this one time at burningman, a guy burned the man....early!"

There, are we done yet?

{this message was not intended in anyway to offend nor dis' anyones opinion, truely}

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:30 am

pinemom wrote:.. So Brittany shaved her head, bad publicity, but funny thing is everyone stopped looking at her crotch!....

Says you! The only time my eyes aren't on her crotch is when there are on her tits or her ass. *Especially* once the head got shaved.....

;)

Ron

Bin Noddin · Post by **Bin Noddin** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:49 am

Finally, the thread takes a turn we can all enjoy. So, Ron, what's your view on hairless unmentionables (carried over from the Random Thoughts thread)?

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:54 am

pinemom wrote:It seems to me, that paul has won...

That remains to be seen...I would hardly consider 10 years in a federal lockup and a fine steep enough to have you subsisting on top ramen for the rest of your post-prison life to be a prize worth striving after.

It's in the judge 'n jury's hands now, let them haggle over the degree of the arsonist's "victory."

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:55 am

Okay, you're absolutely right. (Its good to get somebody elses perspective.)
It just pisses me off that people regard the arsonist as some sort of BM folk hero, and I react.
The less said, the better. Sorry for the diatribe.

There, are we done yet?

{this message was not intended in anyway to offend nor dis' anyones opinion, truely}

[/quote]

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:01 pm

Sorry, I'm reactionary at times, and I am prone to exaggerations and bad analogies. I'm also willing to admit that my tirades can be ridiculous. It was a weak moment. Forgive me.

For the record, I have nothing against manatees, but some of them are pretty damn huge....

quote]
omfg everyone is going to burn everything now! burningman is so ruined! oh the humanity huge manatee![/quote]

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:20 pm

Well, let's take a look at the strongest possibilities here.

Scenario 1: Arsonist is convicted and goes to jail and is financially fucked.

Scenario 2: Arsonist is <i>not</i> convicted and hundreds if not thousands of miscreants with arsonly tendencies go, "Wow, look. He burnt the Man in the middle of everything and everyone and got away with it. What can I get away with?"

Scenario 3: Contingent upon Scenario 2 playing out...Security at the Burn has to be heightened. Fire art requires prior registration. Vehicles searched more thoroughly, causing 4-hour line-up waiting times. People with pyro accelerants but no registered burnable art are held in high suspicion. Man completely surrounded by 8' Cyclone fence, no access, 50-foot standoff. Other major installations see a commensurate securing as resources of the individual artist dictate. Anarchists get angry. Ticket prices go up. Accusations of the ORG turning into Big Brother starting to come true.

Tell me again...who exactly won, what?

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:59 pm

Yeah, I've always worry about the yahoo factor if they let him off easy. It's easy to imagine drunk frat boys in their Hawaiian shirts who hear that it's cool to burn the man (and anything else that they can light on fire) doing so to fit in with the "hip" crowd.

Whether you support the action or not; whether you maintain that transgressions are cool or not, unless it remains a transgression and doesn't become tacitly condoned, it will become a model for others who like to follow, and with the legal precedent of one guy getting off easy, mummy and daddy's lawyers wouldn't have any trouble if someone tried to do something.

We don't need the followers anyhow, do we?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:19 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:Tell me again...who exactly won, what?

short term - paul addis in making a point. long term - those in the greatest position of authority and influence who will leverage it for their own purposes.

despite the event being largely a social community phenomenon (the majority of the work and creativity came from people not directly associated with the org) the org has been increasingly successful at influencing things towards its direction. the people who stand on the same side of the issues as paul addis have to work against the org, and are now burdoned with the criminal stigma of his actions which will be used against them even if they dont support the arson. the org can, and probably will, use the opinion of those against the arson to make it look like they have community support.

its not like the org is going to give much of a voice or focus to those who dont agree with them or what they want. when people are faced with authority opposition yet dont have a voice they give up, protest, escalate petty conflicts, or take extreme measures like arson if they are never acknowledged. i dont think this is going to change despite burningman being promoted as "socially progressive."

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:39 pm

Two questions for you:
Who do you mean by 'org', and what do 'they' want?
(I am asking only to get another, possibly fuller perspective.)

spectabillis wrote:
diane o'thirst wrote:Tell me again...who exactly won, what?
- those in the greatest position of authority and influence who will leverage it for their own purposes.

despite the event being largely a social community phenomenon (the majority of the work and creativity came from people not directly associated with the org) the org has been increasingly successful at influencing things towards its direction. the people who stand on the same side of the issues as paul addis have to work against the org, and are now burdoned with the criminal stigma of his actions which will be used against them even if they dont support the arson.

its not like the org is going to give much of a voice or focus to those who dont agree with them or what they want. when people are faced with authority opposition yet dont have a voice they give up, protest, escalate petty conflicts, or take extreme measures like arson if they are never acknowledged. i dont think this is going to change despite burningman being promoted as "socially progressive."

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:37 pm

spectabillis wrote:short term - paul addis in making a point. long term - those in the greatest position of authority and influence who will leverage it for their own purposes. despite the event being largely a social community phenomenon (the majority of the work and creativity came from people not directly associated with the org) the org has been increasingly successful at influencing things towards its direction....

You keep posting notions like these as if they were facts.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:20 pm

Bob wrote:You keep posting notions like these as if they were facts.

and you keep posting dribble.

Anyone remember Borg2 in 2005? Wasn't that a protest against perceived lack of community voice in shaping Burning Man?

Help Prosecute Paul Addis

Threatens the possibility of future events on the Black Rock

Re: Threatens the possibility of future events on the Black

Re: Threatens the possibility of future events on the Black

I already punished him..

Re: I already punished him..

Re: I already punished him..

Letting it go.

Save the manatees!