What is this dream of which you speak?

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:22 pm

One thing I've noticed throughout the threads on the theme here is that nobody seems to have a consensus or even a clear idea of what the "American Dream" is. I'm curious what everyone who's thought about it thinks it might be.

Whenever I hear that phrase, I get the song from Miss Saigon that Engineer sings about what he hopes to get out of this country. Is the American Dream "Fat, like a chocolate Ã©clair as you suck out the cream... Sweet as a suite in Bel Aire..." Is it for sale as he intones?

I have my own idea that it's sort of related to that: Those that bought into the words that Emma Lazarus penned "give me your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" and all that ultimately seemed to believe that they could have better than their parents... whatever "better" meant. It seemed to be a dream that hard work and ability could earn you a better life; that the freedoms guaranteed by this somewhat radical constitution meant that what you did counted for something. It was a hope for not just yourself and your own future, but your children's future as well.

But thinking about it, to maintain that dream requires a certain amount of angst. If you're content with where you are, what your life is like, the safety and security of your own life, why on earth would you be wanting to change? What hope do you need for the future if the present is just fine? Personally, I think this is the reason the American Dream is dying. Although people aren't happy with their lives, there's enough contentment that they'd rather not admit any more huddled masses, thanks. Lets not mess anything up by changing too much or letting terrorists in or something.

That's my idea... what's yours?

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:15 pm

You know, I walked outside of work the other day and saw the American Flag waving and the thought of the theme crossed my mind and I did for a second feel kind of inspired. Iâ€™ll admit it.

I thought about this year at Burning Man when I was holding hands with my boyfriend skipping down the playa with colors flying by and all the amazing sights and â€œSweet Home Alabamaâ€

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:00 pm

Uh. That wasn't the question. The question/theme isn't "what do you dream for America?" but rather "what is the 'American Dream'?" You know, that uniquely American dream all our ancestors shared. What you dream is probably going to be different than what your grandmother dreamed, don't you think?

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:24 pm

No the Theme is â€œAmerican Dreamâ€

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:53 am

"Uh. That wasn't the question. The question/theme isn't "what do you dream for America?" but rather "what is the 'American Dream'?""

good grief - Dream for America, American Dream, "The" American Dream... the American Experience... I'm trying to be creative and work with you on what I think of the theme. Whatever...

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:19 am

I mean, I jumped into this thread Val because I think you have a good idea â€“ to focus on the â€œDreamâ€

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:51 pm

If your dream is interpreted byFreud, then it's wrong.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:58 pm

Well, the Dream must be constantly growing, changing, and adapting, or it really is dead. That is why it is so hard to define.

B.

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:31 pm

Just like Burning Man?

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:44 pm

Valkyrie wrote:Just like Burning Man?

YEP!

B.

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:56 pm

But like Burning man, doesn't it have core ideas and principles, without which it wouldn't be that dream/event, it'd be some other dream/event?

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:30 am

That might be the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and related material, if you want to reduce it to something concrete. That might be defining it a bit too much, though, and essentially painting oneself into a corner... or, at least, that is my concern.

B.

Post by **Eric** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:01 pm

Valkyrie wrote:But like Burning man, doesn't it have core ideas and principles, without which it wouldn't be that dream/event, it'd be some other dream/event?

I don't think the "American Dream" (in the non-theme context) has a generic set of core ideas and principles. As BAS has pointed out, it has the founding documents, but even the meaning of those is argued over incessantly- look at the First or Second Amendments. The "Dream" is just so many different things to different people.

Example: my grandparents arrived in 1910 as immigrants from Austro-Hungary (in Second Class!, not steerage, as my grandmother used to emphasize). Their dream was a haven safe from pogroms and discrimination where they could have a business and raise a family.
However, to a lot of American's at that time, and still, the American Dream is one free of (insert current hated immigrant group here)- which in 1910 solidly included European Jews like my grandparents, and Italians, and the Irish, and Asians, and African-American who already lived here....

The American Dream of a white supremacist is not the American Dream of an interracial couple. Hell, the American Dream of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney is not my American Dream- but you couldn't say any of us in our heart of hearts is dreaming for something other than what we see is a better America.

I'm starting to like this theme the more it's discussed since there are a million different takes on it.

Rolan Headon · Post by **Rolan Headon** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:18 am

Don't know why I missed this thread before, it makes so much sense. Maybe American dreams are going to clash, meld and effect each other and hopefuly evolve over time. To own a bunch of slaves was once a common American dream, to my mind an ancestor of the 'love it or leave it' crowd. Walt Whitman's dream maybe an ancestor of the tolerate gays and nudity, free speech and wild art on the playa; radical self reliance/help your neighbor a natural modern growth of the pioneering spirit. And is evolution/competition of ideas any different than the striving of plant and animal species to find a place on the planet?

janicels · Post by **janicels** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:56 pm

this what i get out of it
it is your dream to as u wish
it may be a bad dream a sad one or a happy one or a wet one
but it is just a dream
and u can change a dream and make it what u want
just like u can change