Anti-drug on the playa?

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:56 pm

Well, there's already a thread for sober on the playa... and I got into this on another thread, but Phil (very kindly) suggested I create a new thread on this.

As posted elsewhere, I'm anti-drug (includes caffiene, nicotine, etc). I won't elaborate more here (unless you want me to). In your opinion, would a first-time burner going by herself honestly enjoy BM if she was staunchly against drugs and didn't want to hang out with people who were on them? Are drugs on the playa really THAT rampant? Has anyone experienced having food/drinks, etc. gifted that have "other" substances in them? Is this something I need to be distrustful of?

Phil and Valkyrie, I very much appreciate the responses you've both given and take them to heart. Anyone else want to give some feedback?

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:06 pm

you can have a perfectly amazing time at Burning Man even if you are adamantly opposed to drugs. Just make sure you camp with others similarly inclined. In addition to plenty of water, shade structure and goggles, tolerance for other's views and lifestyle are very very important on the Playa

barnz · Post by **barnz** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:39 pm

The most important 'concept' for me on the playa is Home Base. I agree with Teo that you should plan to camp with others who you feel safe with. Burning Man is an exhausting experience, and we all need "downtime." If you decide to come, I would connect with others of like mind. I believe there is a village you might want to get connected to - search ePlaya for a thread called "Sober on the Playa" (I think...)

Yes, use of drugs is rampant. Others may disagree about use of this term, but it's true. Use of illegal drugs is (mostly) clandestine, however most people who are using some substance in private end up wandering out into the city or on the playa with the intention of interacting with people, art, or the environment. They won't necessarily molest others, but if you feel you won't have a good time knowing that there are thousands of people nearby who are smoking, drinking, etc., then by all means don't subject yourself to that annoyance and take your tent to Yosemite instead.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:37 pm

If you have that large of an issue about associating or being around others consuming, using or otherwise enjoying what you consider to be drugs, than no, you will not have a good time at Burning Man.

I can completely understand and agree with not wanting to be around or even associate with coke heads, meth tweakers or heroin zombies, but someone killing a hot, frothy shot of espresso from E-Dude or someone sipping on a cold one after a long hot day? Sorry, but that exceeds the bounds of what even I consider normalcy and I tend to be pretty far fucking out there at times in what I consider normal.

Even in a camp centered on sobriety, such as an AA or NA member support camp, there will be coffee and cigarettes in ABUNDANCE. That's a basic fact of 12 step booze and drug addiction recovery.

So in all honesty, I do not see how you could possibly find Burning Man to be an enjoyable experience. And this opinion has absolutely NOTHING to do with illicit drug use or consumption of alcohol on any level. The sheer amount of casual tobacco use, coffee/soda/tea drinking and/or whatever other mundane, daily consumption items (aspirin? Tylenol? Tums?) you would probably classify as "drugs" and do not want to be near more than solidifies that fact.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:05 pm

I agree with CapSmashy, One of the major aspects of Burning Man is itâ€™s radical self expression, for that to flourish and for the interplay between the many different kinds of people that goes into building a community, a high degree of acceptance of people being and doing what they want the way they want is pretty necessary. It's not necessary you embrace another's lifestyle , and it is not all love and peace but you do have to have a live let live attitude. Really the community , and friendships you form with people particularly those that seem very different from you is one of the most enjoyable parts of Burning Man in my book.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:44 pm

mereth,

Welcome to the group.. It's a fine group at that...
I have been going to BM for 10 years.. Sober 20 years. That said I will share with you what works for me....
Join us next year on the Playa. Leave your expectations at home. Do bring a OPEN mind. If you find yourself in or around a place you don't like or don't agree with, you walk away. Don't make any comments about what you don't like, cuz it's your deal. What you will find next year depends on you. Your not the only person with the same concerns.

Also look up the fine folks at the hokey pokey camp in the 3:00 plaza. They are a sober camp with meeting going on.. I got my 20 year chip from them this year...

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:51 pm

I'm sure you can have a great time if ya hang out with some AA/NA folks or just find some straight edge peeps to chill with. You may have to program yourself to ignore some stuff. There is alot of alcohol goin around, as there are plenty of great bar theme camps. Radical Inclusion means anyone is welcome, this includes etards as well as straightedge. You may not want to go if you cannot breathe the same air as someone rolling on E.

Everyone else was on point about accepting food from others and all that.

Ebenezer Squeezer · Post by **Ebenezer Squeezer** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:21 pm

If you are completely anti-drug as you say you will probably have a very bad time. Nearly everyone there is on something, whether caffeine, sugar, alcohol or other drugs. Don't go.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:09 pm

Yes people can and do have awesome times at Burning Man while completely free of mind-warping drug substances. If you're doing it that way for your own self you too can have a great time...if you're out to get others to do it that way because you're an activist crusader, ha, good luck!! Could be fireworks

Mereth you have pie??? mmmmm!!! pie is very good, camp next to me, I have bacon (the real playa drug of choice)

bigbluedoggy · Post by **bigbluedoggy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:08 pm

Ooooh what about bacon pie? Now there's a drug I could probably get behind!

There are many many sober people on the playa (me included... +21 years). I do enjoy coffee and some sugar, but that's about as far as it goes. I have a blast out there and there are people in many various states around me at any given time. I have no issue with it as long as it isn't "in my face". Nobody has ever adamantly insisted that I try something or drink something. A simple "no, thanks" has always worked fine. My personal policy is to decline any food stuff or beverage that I didn't prepare or know the source of.

And then there is always the option of walking away, if need be.

If you really have an issue being around substances of any kind, I have to wonder how you get thru a day with your sanity, because people in the default world can be far more out of control at times than anyone on the playa. Intolerance of any kind is not a good modus operandi for life... IMHO. We all have our issues, but making our issues into someone else's is a recipe for trouble.

Burning Man is what you bring to it. Acceptance is probably one of the best gifts you can offer.

Opinions expressed do not necessarily coincide with those of management, etc. etc. bullshit bullshit bullshit

K-mom · Post by **K-mom** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:53 pm

I second the motion for acceptance.

My personal feeling is that if you are militantly anti-anything you will have a hard time truly enjoying yourself anywhere. You could of course prove me wrong here by saying "I have at this, that, and the other place all the time".

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:11 am

mereth wrote:Well, there's already a thread for sober on the playa... and I got into this on another thread, but Phil (very kindly) suggested I create a new thread on this.

As posted elsewhere, I'm anti-drug (includes caffiene, nicotine, etc). I won't elaborate more here (unless you want me to). In your opinion, would a first-time burner going by herself honestly enjoy BM if she was staunchly against drugs and didn't want to hang out with people who were on them?

One thing I forgot to mention in the other thread is that there are AA/clean and sober camps, and there are also the medical tents, kidsville and the Black Rock Spaceport (the pilots camp.)

Alcohol is ubiquitous. It would be dishonest to say you won't have to deal with it or that people won't offer it to you. Other drug use seems to be increasingly low key and unless you're out at 11 p.m. or something you probably won't even know whether most people are "on" something if you talk to them. It's really hard to tell who's hallucinating when everything is already so stimulating and surreal.

I would also emphasize that if somebody is talking to you there, you wouldn't want to discredit them just because they chose to smoke pot or whatever. Just like wearing funny clothes or building art just to burn it, it might be the only time of the year, or their lives, that they do it. You'd REALLY miss out on some amazing interpersonal experiences if you said "Whoa, dude. That person might be high so I don't want to be around her."

Burning Man is where you let go of all of that. If somebody's behavior disturbs you it's easy to say "Well, gotta go. Have a safe burn" with no hard feelings. Other than that, if there's anywhere where it's better to judge people by what they say and do than what they might be on, there it is.

-c

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:01 am

How could you be anti-caffeine?
I am not accepting of that.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:07 am

If you're concerned about what other folk are doing, then don't go. Or, go, and learn how to get past that concern. Your body is your business, someone else's body is their business. Confusing the two situations is a recipe for no fun on playa, IMHO.

Ron

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:25 am

If I were you, I wouldn't go.

sensi63 · Post by **sensi63** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:12 pm

People drink and do drugs. If you are live and let live, that will be ok. If you are a closed minded anti drug bigot, you will not be happy. I don't drink, and when I would ask for non-alcoholic beverages at the bars more than once I was told "wow, you are the first person to do that.!" At one place they put vodka in the cranberry juice I asked for, not out of malice, but just because they could not conceive of someone just wanting cranberry juice...As far as drugs go, I see much more drug use at the Fillmore in San Fran in one evening than I saw the whole week at BRC, but it definately occurs. It is a live and let live enironment, and if you are so closed minded that people who freely choose to use mind altering substances bothers you, than stay the fuck away, or change your attitude, or drive hundreds of miles, spend hundreds of dollars, and wallow in you misery. If you are an alcoholic or ex drug addict in recovery, make sure you have your shit together before you come, as I often thought, "this place is for very spiritually advanced abstainers."

While you are at it, you might want to pull your head out of your ass long enough to curse our Warhead president and Vice President, who are much more dangerous than any crack head or meth head I know.

Go with an open mind and you will have an amazing experience
Go with and open mind and an open heart and you will be forever changed. Sorry if I come off as a bit harsh, but I think the anti drug people are not better than the people who used to burn witches.

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:22 pm

wow, i'm not sure how to begin this, and i'm not even sure if this is the right forum, but i have been bothered by this incident which i will describe, and then ask for feedback...

I was in a large camp, with many different groups inside the camp...techies, dancers, construction/fabrication and so on...

the night of the burn, everything was a it should be, people were excited, and in the heat of the moment, i was asked by my campmates, and the chef to add a little "Oregano" of middie-quality that i had to the sauce....the camp was 80 people, i put in about an eighth or so into a big sauce pan...mind you iwas encouraged, and many people witnessed, were fine with etc etc etc...

i made a huge mistake and did not think things all the way thru...

right before the burn, and keep in mind also i was rtripping my face off, a dancer with the troupe very angrily accused me, and rightfully so, that i had poisoned her...

i did actually, i suppose....i had no idea she was straightedge and adamant about it...otherwise i wouldnt have done what i was asked to do....but again, no excuse, i was wrong...

anyway, she lays this on me right before the burn, i was devastated...

really fucked with guilt...etc etc etc.....not a good trip to say the least...

i felt terrible and she felt terrible and it was terrible...

i apologized profusely but the damage was done...

i guess from the point of view of a long time burner, i would say that that shit's gonna happen out here....but from the viewpoint of a newbie, i indeed had no right to do that...i am sorry...

so my advice would be, that even so-called reliable sources might be spiked with something, even alcohol, so bring your own if you want to avoid the nightmare that was my burn night...

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:38 pm

It's like some years ago I took my vw camper to Bryce Canyon , Utah , over thanksgiving and it was wonderful but
I couldn't get a expresso anywhere!
It was like the the frontier prairie wagons made it from the east coast to the west coast but the red-white awning'ed expresso carts got stopped at Utah!
What the hell is it about those people you can't get a good cup of coffee around there?

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:50 pm

What the hell is it about those people you can't get a good cup of coffee around there?

Caffiene is against the Mormon beliefs. Mayber Mereth's a Mormon.

Of course, there's Mormon tea:
http://www.desertusa.com/april97/du_mormontea.html

Note the genus name of the plant.

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:00 pm

Thanks very much for all your wonderful and frank responses. I truly appreciate it.
To clarify, I am anti-drug for ME. I also don't particularly want to CAMP with people that are tripping or drunk (had very many bad experiences with being the only/one of the few sober person(s) in the group - I end up being the "Mommy, make me feel better" person, and don't want to deal with that (despite being very good at this)). If other people on the playa wish to do so, that's fine. If someone is obviously on something and it's bothering me, I'll just walk away and find some other area/art/people that aren't so plastered, etc. From all appearances, there should be no dearth of distractions on the playa. (understatement of the decade)

Thanks to all your advice, (and Simon's confession) I will now ask before accepting gifted drinks/food etc, whether or not it's spiked. I'm a foodie, (Mereth is Elvish for feast/banquet) so I was planning on bringing my own food anyway (I like the challenge of preparing gourmet food on the playa. I already have some camping equipment at home).

:arrow: Does this make some people feel a little better? Bitter Dan? Skygod? Ebeneezer Squeezer? :oops:

Tiahaar, and Bluedoggy. Yessssss... Piiiiiiie. You've never lived til you've tried my cottage cheese pie with a peach/banana smoothie... (Healthy never tasted sooo good). 8)

PS I'm not [u]militantly[/u] anti-anything. :roll:

and I like parentheses...

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:01 pm

Ephedra! LOL
that is one bad chemical.
I do, however, like pie.

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:02 pm

[quote="phil"][quote]What the hell is it about those people you can't get a good cup of coffee around there?[/quote]
Caffiene is against the Mormon beliefs. Mayber Mereth's a Mormon.

Of course, there's Mormon tea:
http://www.desertusa.com/april97/du_mormontea.html

Note the genus name of the plant.[/quote]

Not a Mormon, though I sympathize.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:12 pm

skygod wrote:It's like some years ago I took my vw camper to Bryce Canyon , Utah , over thanksgiving and it was wonderful but
I couldn't get a expresso anywhere!
It was like the the frontier prairie wagons made it from the east coast to the west coast but the red-white awning'ed expresso carts got stopped at Utah!
What the hell is it about those people you can't get a good cup of coffee around there?

Mormons don't drink coffee, much less espresso.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:16 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:...

i did actually, i suppose....i had no idea she was straightedge and adamant about it...otherwise i wouldnt have done what i was asked to do....but again, no excuse, i was wrong...

If she was worried to the point of wigging out on you she should have brought her own food.

She could have just as easily been "poisoned" with salmonella, e coli, hepatitis, lockjaw, nightvision (Raising Arizona). If it's all the same, I prefer the oregano.

-zb

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:31 pm

One of the things I like best about being at Burning Man, and also find rather challenging, is dealing with people who make very different choices about their lives than I do. I don't drink or do drugs, but I do like caffeine (and ibuprofen) on the playa. I tend to hang out with people who drink moderately, and they don't hassle me about my not drinking. Sometimes I encounter people who do things immoderately, and I have to cope. That's the way it is, and not just on the playa. I do think that coping on the playa has improved my ability to cope in general, though.

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:44 pm

Mmm... babysitter. Can't blame you for not wanting to be one o' them. I think you should be fine, if that's all your concern. I'd say better than half the camps i observed tend to have a majority of moderately responsible people.

The critical thing about the playa is that it's really easy to screw yourself up without even doing anything, so those that do so doing drugs are in such the vast minority (so very few repeat offenders!)

Unless you fall in with a small bunch of goons, you're very unlikely to be expected to deal with anything. Even though you'll be viewed as a responsible person, there will be at least a few more responsible people, by virtue of them being not virgins, who will expect to, and be expected to deal with, uh, problem children. Organizing a camp takes experience, responsibility and leadership. Whoever you camp with should have that covered. Unless you happen across Simon's camp.

(It's funny but I'm beginning to think I actually MET Simon on the playa this year. That camp sounds so much like the camp I wound up hanging out at for the second part of the week.)

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:03 pm

well if you did, i'm pretty easy to spot....very tall, painfully thin, walking with a cane (3 broken toes) stayed with root society, also known as the tipi peeps, or camp HiHowAreYa, or Seizure Dome....take your pick....corner of 10th and esplanade.

i upholstered all the shit in the spooge, i mean chill dome...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:44 am

and yes, i am a problem child....

i'm oughttistic.

i oughtta do this but sometimes i do that...

Valkyrie · Post by **Valkyrie** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:16 pm

I see, I see. Nope, didn't meetcha. I tended towards the other side of things. Was barely limping myself, as my knee had mostly healed...

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:55 pm

I've been going 7 years, with 3 different groups, and don't partake of very much. All 3 groups included smokers, drinkers, and a little of everything else. The only babysitting activities I've been involved in were because I had an art car and someone needed to get back to camp. Otherwise, as long as you're with a mature group that knows in advance you aren't into it you should be fine in that respect. You will be around alcohol at pretty much any camp unless it's set up specificially to be alcohol free. Most other camps you run the risk of seeing something else be consumed, and if you try to tell people not to do it around you there could be some pushback. I've never had any problem turning down something offered to me. Occasionally people get confused when I say I don't drink, but that happens more often off the playa. The idea of simply not liking alcohol is very puzzling to most people and they assume I'm just not telling them the real reason I don't want a beer.

Anti-drug on the playa?

Anti-drug on the playa?

Re: Anti-drug on the playa?

Re: Anti-drug on the playa?

Stay at home with other closed minded individuals