2008 "American Dream" theme

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:29 am

Um, maybe cuz we do amazingly horrible things, all over the world? Just a wild guess. I for one am pretty well disgusted with the various atrocities performed in my name, using my meager tax dollars.

We do? Really? And yet all these people do all manner of things to get here legally or illegally.

Did we liquidate the kulaks? The Jews? The unprogressive?

Did we start the slave trade? Did we invent racism?

We are not a perfect nation--but I defy you to name one.

And we have done so much good, surely that counts for something?

Wouldn't it be a little eye-opening to have Bush/Darth on trial in the Hague, then executed. Afterwards, we get to pay a hefty tax for some serious reparations. Sorry, that's what happens when war criminals (finally) get their come-uppance

But there have been no charges leveled. No foreign leaders--particularly European ones--find anything that we've done to rise to the level of a war-crime. Why is that?

Do you think they might have information that you lack?

Or maybe they think they'll let us take care of the problem so they don't have to--while sitting on the sidelines decrying(for the media) our boorishness and cruelty(while making no move to do anything about it).

Gietzen · Post by **Gietzen** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:06 pm

Ya know at first like many I thought it was all a joke, then I thought about it more and more. The "America Dream" to me is actully great, and to hell with anyone who want's to complain about my opinion. just have fun, or just DON'T GO, or just do your own thing. I don't recall nearly as many people complaining abou the 07 theme. That's because it was something everyone feels good about, even though its a hypocritical crock of lies telling ourselves we are good people for not wanting to pollute, by using corn oil buses and electric hybrid cars. well guess what those "zero or low emmisions" electric vehicles, where do you think most of that clean electricity comes from, DIRTY POWER PLANTS. and corn oil and E85 shoot there isn't enough corn in the world to.. sorry now I'm just ranting off topic. It's just why is everyone self reliant for just one week. People get OFF YOUR ASSES and make things better instead of whining for a theme change like a bucnh of BABIES. And complaining on and on about the bush administration, belive me I'm certinly no fan, he is the reason I never joined the military to serve my country. But I have lost count a long time ago the amount of people that whine abut it and don't vote. the American Dream to me is getting off you tail and doing something about IT. the Admin. will chang in 2008, will you do something? Or will you just find a new comlaint?

storyteller · Post by **storyteller** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:11 pm

Headline:

[b]Burning Man festival ordered to cease and desist[/b]

Thursday morning law enforcement officers served the administrators of the annual Burning Man art festival with an order to end the event prematurely after several instances of violence erupted.
Police say that there had been an uneasy tension throughout the entire event revolving around the events theme "The American Dream".

Pershing County Sheriff Watwood Yoodoo had this to say:

"By Tuesday morning there were hundreds if not thousand of participants wearing costumes reminiscent of the main character from the movie "V for Vendetta", a masked anarchic figure who in the film takes it upon himself to start a revolution and destroy the house of Parliament. Many of these masks were painted in the likeness of the facial design worn by a suspect in last years premature arson of the Man. It was a police officers worst nightmare. I'm surprised the peace lasted as long as it did"

But last it did not.
Witnesses say that around midnight on Wednesday a costumed group approached the events namesake effigy, an 80 foot tall wooden man, and attempted to set it on fire. Police were not caught off guard and attempted to detain the parties involved in the attempted arson. Things quickly went from bad to worse as hundreds of already emotionally charged participants became involved in a fray with law enforcement officers leaving 4 participants and 1 police officer dead, and at least 14 seriously wounded. 36 participants have been taken into custody.

Burning Man officials say they will comply with the order to cease and desist and will not burn the effigy on Saturday night as planned. An evacuation order has been placed upon the Black Rock playa area where the event is held each year, and participants have been ordered to have leave the city by 5:00pm Friday afternoon or face criminal charges.

"It was a nightmare" says Yoodoo, "These people were calling us fascists and Nazis and talking to us about concentration camps. We weren't there to persecute. We were there to protect the city and it's populace while it dreamed its American Dream"

draconispax · Post by **draconispax** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:18 pm

when and where the hell did that happen!!!!!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:19 pm

Oh you know. One of those radios that picks up broadcasts from the future.

draconispax · Post by **draconispax** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:15 pm

i hate to sound like a dweeb but i really don't stay in touch with reality so i had NO idea.

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:31 pm

Cool article -

I like sherrif Watwood Yoodoo - what nationality is that.
Personally - Id like to see the Sheriff try to shut down BM on a tuesday during the event, theres not enough law ennforcement in all of nevada to clear out BM in less than the week the event is going to run anyways.

If

Nickel · Post by **Nickel** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:20 pm

mdmf007 wrote:Cool article -

I like sherrif Watwood Yoodoo - what nationality is that.
Personally - Id like to see the Sheriff try to shut down BM on a tuesday during the event, theres not enough law ennforcement in all of nevada to clear out BM in less than the week the event is going to run anyways.

If

You don't want to see that. There is enough Law enforcement to make people really upset, scared, and quite possibly no longer living. I'd be terrified of the chaos that would occur if they tried to "break up" Burning Man. Terrified.

It would quite possibly be the most terribly handled situation in American history and for that reason it will never happen, but they have enough police in this nation to throw the hammer down, and I am sure there are plenty of people who would love to do it. You might even say it is some American's Dream. Dear Jeebus I hate the theme.

Silverwheel · Post by **Silverwheel** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:20 pm

lurker wrote:We do? Really? And yet all these people do all manner of things to get here legally or illegally.

Yes indeed, there are some third-world shitholes with a lower standard of living than ours. Be proud.

lurker wrote:Did we start the slave trade?

Certainly not. And within a few years of it becoming unprofitable, and after everybody else had, we abandoned it.

lurker wrote:But there have been no charges leveled. No foreign leaders--particularly European ones--find anything that we've done to rise to the level of a war-crime. Why is that?

Are you sure about that, Sparky?

lurker wrote:Do you think they might have information that you lack?

They wouldn't be much of a government if they didn't. But if your disingenuous question is meant to imply that our European friends know that the Bush/Cheney administration is as pure as the driven snow - a fact that our media has cruelly kept from us - I'd like to propose a counter-hypothesis:

Do you think they might have information that would lead any sane being to believe that the Bush/Cheney administration would go violently batshit rather than submit to the justice of the world court?

Just a thought.

Rolan Headon · Post by **Rolan Headon** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:36 pm

Is this a nation of judges or what? Since most people seem to be skipping 2008 I'm going to take my guns and shoot up the playa. Safely. Celebrate America in the traditional way. Wonder if I can find that kangeroo rat that was hopping around the cubitron or whatever they called it last year?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:59 am

What about rebuilding the Twin Towers on the playa, in reduced scale of course...

... are you surprised when we burn them? That might be a powerful catharsis, or just a cool burn.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:45 pm

Yes indeed, there are some third-world shitholes with a lower standard of living than ours. Be proud.

Yeah, like Sweden.

Certainly not. And within a few years of it becoming unprofitable, and after everybody else had, we abandoned it.

Sadly, a lot of people STILL haven't abandoned slavery--even in Africa, where you'd think they'd have gotten their fill.

Am I sure? Yup.

From your cite--

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called "20th hijacker" and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings.

Prety sure none of those plaintiffs qualifies as 'foreign leaders, particulary European ones'.

They wouldn't be much of a government if they didn't. But if your disingenuous question is meant to imply that our European friends know that the Bush/Cheney administration is as pure as the driven snow - a fact that our media has cruelly kept from us - I'd like to propose a counter-hypothesis:

Pure as the driven snow? Nah. In possession of facts that are at least mitigating, probably.

Do you think they might have information that would lead any sane being to believe that the Bush/Cheney administration would go violently batshit rather than submit to the justice of the world court?

I think it's more likely that they understand that the US knows it would be insane to cede it's sovreignty in such a fashion. To put our citizens at the mercy of a world court, where they would be guilty until they could bribe themselves innocent? That's batshit crazy if I ever heard anything.

We're not angels, but neither are we the devils that some pretend we are.

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:14 pm

I have a new favorite quote that I think applies to this year's theme... If only I could find a complete copy of the text. Anyone?

"Artists and poets of America! If you wish to recover the sacred source of your own mythology and your own inspiration, the time has come to reunite yourselves within the historic bowels of your Philadelphia, to ring once more the symbolic bell of your imaginative independence, and, holding aloft in one hand Franklin's lightning rod, and in the other Leautreamont's umbrella, to defy the storm of obscurantism that is threatening your country!"

â€”Salvador Dali
"Declaration of the Independence
of the Imagination and the Rights of
Man to His Own Madness," 1939

LadyBeeSF · Post by **LadyBeeSF** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:35 pm

Who said anything about embracing the American Dream? The theme is not about the dream itself - this is everyone's opportunity to RESPOND to the American dream, negative or positive. People tend to take the themes too literally, without looking into their content. I've read that people think it's patriotic - again, not true, it's actually neutral. And I"ve read that people think it's exclusive - only for Americans. Again, not true. Everyone has an opinion on the "american Dream", wherever they're from. So far the most interesting art project we've heard about is from Amsterdam. This theme is wide open - so have at it, whatever form it takes.
_________________

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:10 pm

LadyBeeSF wrote:Who said anything about embracing the American Dream? The theme is not about the dream itself - this is everyone's opportunity to RESPOND to the American dream, negative or positive. People tend to take the themes too literally, without looking into their content. I've read that people think it's patriotic - again, not true, it's actually neutral. And I"ve read that people think it's exclusive - only for Americans. Again, not true. Everyone has an opinion on the "american Dream", wherever they're from. So far the most interesting art project we've heard about is from Amsterdam. This theme is wide open - so have at it, whatever form it takes.
_________________

Ladybee, having met you, and respecting your intelligence, I am amazed you chose to crosspost rather than think twice....

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... highlight=

although the point is an excellent one, so perhaps it was justified....

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:26 pm

mereth wrote:I have a new favorite quote that I think applies to this year's theme... If only I could find a complete copy of the text. Anyone?

"Artists and poets of America! If you wish to recover the sacred source of your own mythology and your own inspiration, the time has come to reunite yourselves within the historic bowels of your Philadelphia, to ring once more the symbolic bell of your imaginative independence, and, holding aloft in one hand Franklin's lightning rod, and in the other Leautreamont's umbrella, to defy the storm of obscurantism that is threatening your country!"

â€”Salvador Dali
"Declaration of the Independence
of the Imagination and the Rights of
Man to His Own Madness," 1939

S. Dali was a publicity whore whose word I wouldn't take on any subject.

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:00 pm

"I've read that people think it's patriotic - again, not true" - LadyBee

Ladybee... the very first sentence blares out "This year's art theme is about patriotism."

In fact, it goes on to define what kind of patriotism by saying we should 'leave ideology behind, leave red states and blue states and all the things that divide us behind' and we should not burn flags and all that. BMORG has inserted an ideology of patriotism into the theme itself, and many of us find it offensive that you decided to go there. You can't take up a subject like the American Dream and have it not be about what divides us, because that's a big part of what America is about. Especially today as we are at war and torturing people without giving them a trial. And of course people are going to burn flags at an event where just about everything gets burned in one form or another. By discouraging flag burning you are laying out a red carpet for people to burn them just out of spite.

And hell yes, the theme feels exclusive. The theme says that it is about "love of country and culture", but not ALL countries and cultures - it's about America. And with a flag behind the man as the image on the website, it's pretty hard not to see the visual symbolism of patriotism implied in that.

I wrote another thread 'to be continued' where I made some suggestions for improving the theme. Ladybee, rather than coming onto this thread and informing us that we have interpreted the theme too literally, and we are 'wrong' for feeling that the theme is exclusive, patriotic, etc., why not listen to some of the feedback and try to incorporate it?

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:20 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
mereth wrote:I have a new favorite quote that I think applies to this year's theme... If only I could find a complete copy of the text. Anyone?

"Artists and poets of America! If you wish to recover the sacred source of your own mythology and your own inspiration, the time has come to reunite yourselves within the historic bowels of your Philadelphia, to ring once more the symbolic bell of your imaginative independence, and, holding aloft in one hand Franklin's lightning rod, and in the other Leautreamont's umbrella, to defy the storm of obscurantism that is threatening your country!"

â€”Salvador Dali
"Declaration of the Independence
of the Imagination and the Rights of
Man to His Own Madness," 1939
S. Dali was a publicity whore whose word I wouldn't take on any subject.

Agreed on his being a publicity whore - but isn't that the point?

Embracing "madness" is just one way that the people in the US are having a ball in the world arena.
Plus, his manifesto is one way for burners to remain within the theme in a backwards context and still be able to to do whatever the hell art they should so choose or desire as they are embracing their own independence from the theme itself, thus staying with the theme.

It's whatcha call ironical.

vic · Post by **vic** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:42 pm

This American Dream theme just isn't working. Judging by this thread, it just stimulates arguments and we don't need Burning Man for that. It would be OK with me if we did not have a theme, but if we need one how about one of these?

three rabits and a horny rooster
show me something
huh?
great galloping mother fuckers

SFbrothermichael · Post by **SFbrothermichael** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:30 am

PATRIOTISM:
A devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.

(this implies support and defense of your country REGARDLESS of your country's actions or your own personal beliefs.)
The theme description states that this is NOT what the theme is about.

NATIONALISM:
The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination.

(again, the theme implies it is NOT about this.)

PERSONAL PRIDE:
BINGO!
THIS is what the theme asks us to artistically express.
What are you, personally, on an immediate level, PROUD that America has acheived?
Or...if the case fits, tell us what dismays you that it has done in the past.
What are your fears for America's future?
What is your own personal American dream?
What yet can America give to the world?

This is VERY different from patriotism.
This goes much deeper.

If we can't even say out loud that we are proud to be Americans, even if we are not feeling particularly patriotic, then how can we expect other countries to have confidence in us and to be motivated to work with us on global issues??

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:15 am

We're seeing a bunch of newbies jumping into these political conversations. How will whis play out on the playa? Any idea?

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:39 am

I'm really biting my tongue and saying as little as I can stand (as a newbie trying to be respectful of those who have actually earned their burner status (and post count)).

Oh, fuckit.

I'm a Libertarian forced to vote Democrat as I hate Republicans with the exception of Ron Paul, but I can't vote for him in the Primary as I'm already a "decline to state" absentee voter (which by law means I can't vote Republican in the Primary (unless I re-register) - how dumb is that?) and frankly I just don't think that the Bible belt section of America is going to vote for him when they have any number of other Red candidates that are "more Christian" like Huckabee or Romney. Redneck "Americans" with an IQ of 50 unfortunately outweigh the smart people in most states in the US. (Yes that is a generalization, but that doesn't make it less unfortunately true due to how the electoral college is set up). As it is, I'll vote for Obama and maybe the housewives across america will also vote for him secretly (against their husbands wishes) since Oprah said so.

Have I painted a bleak enough picture of the political landscape?

I will say no more (politically speaking). I think I'll go post more shiny things I want for Xmas...

SFbrothermichael · Post by **SFbrothermichael** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:59 am

I'm not sure if your newbie comment was about my post.
If it was, I'd like to address it.
2008 will be my eighth consecutive burn.
I think I might be on the verge of becoming a veteran myself.

However,
I am a "newbie" to E*PLAYA,
and reading everyone elses comments and contributions about this years theme is greatly helping me to find my own politcal voice here in the default world.

Thank you, everyone.

Brother Michael.

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:34 am

"PATRIOTISM: A devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.... PERSONAL PRIDE: BINGO! THIS is what the theme asks us to artistically express. What are you, personally, on an immediate level, PROUD that America has acheived?"

I'm glad that you are looking forward to expressing your personal patriotic pride Michael, but that's you. I have no 'personal pride' at the moment in America. The fact that the theme directs us towards what we are proud of in America right now is manipulative. It's political. It would be better if it did not contain all the BS about pride in our nation and left us to decide for ourselves how we want to interpret America (pride or shame or whatever). It can't be 'neutral' as Ladybee claims, then at the same time be about 'personal pride in America as you claim. You are in fact right - it is about pride in America, and that's the problem. That's why it's politically manipulative and that's why I suggested that they adjust the language of the theme to make it more neutral and open to interpretation.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:35 am

I think that quite a few people are getting sucked in to one small tangent off this theme, patriotism and are using that as nothing more than an excuse to cover their own inability to find a way to work with this theme.

To me this theme is vast, deep, chock full of creative possibilities with a time span of possible ideas to draw from that goes back over 400 years. I just don't understand the bitching....people bitched when it was limited in scope like last year's Green Man was...now this year Larry gives what has to be one of the most loaded, dripping with potential ideas and projects themes yet and what has everything degenerated into?

Having been to the event for 6 years now I've seen some amazing things that this community is capable of. To come in here and see people closing their minds off like this and getting sucked into one angle arguments...it's almost sickening to watch.

IMHO instead of reading 16 more pages of potential bitching in a few more weeks, perhaps people can wake up, realize the gift Larry dropped in our laps, and get moving on some serious, potentially mindblowing projects.

This is BM...and most of you are veteran participants. Quit bitching like a bunch of fucking spectators...let's make this happen cause the theme ain't going to be changing...let's get moving!

</soapbox>

SFbrothermichael · Post by **SFbrothermichael** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:24 pm

Kinetic V.

you put your fingers to the keyboard
and my exact thoughts came spilling out.

when you wrote
REALIZE THE GIFT
i shivered a little.

i think it'll be my new mantra for 2008.

Peace to you, and good luck.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:35 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:We're seeing a bunch of newbies jumping into these political conversations. How will whis play out on the playa? Any idea?

I think it will be the same as usual. Some great art by some great folks. Alot of people completely ignoring the theme stuff and doing the usual partying and dancing. Of the deep converstation I had on playa only 10 percent or so were about politics. I spent way more time chattin it up about fire, mutant vehicles, and makin stuff in general.

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:50 am

"I think that quite a few people are getting sucked in to one small tangent off this theme, patriotism and are using that as nothing more than an excuse to cover their own inability to find a way to work with this theme... Quit bitching like a bunch of fucking spectators...let's make this happen cause the theme ain't going to be changing..."

Kinetic V, I appreciate that you see this theme as rich with opportunity. I have mixed feelings about the theme and some problems with the theme that I think the BMORG could address. I actualy am finding a way to work with the theme - I'm addressing the concerns I have in a thread I started with suggestions for them to improve the theme (the "To Be Continued" thread). If I were to passively accept the theme without talking about how I genuinely feel about it, that would be being a 'spectator'.

I don't know if BMORG is going to take into consideration any of the feedback that they receive here, but if I don't at least speak my mind, then no one will know about it. I'm sorry that people like you and Michael are so annoyed that people like me continue to have issues with the theme. We aren't trying to rain on your parade, but we do care about Burning Man and hope that they address the concerns we have when they complete the theme.

And I don't have a problem with the fact that they are doing a theme about patriotism - I have a problem that they are telling us what isn't patriotism (it shouldn't be about red states, blue states, ideology, flag burning, etc.). If they want this theme to be a real exploration of America, then they should make it truly open without telling us what it shouldn't be about. And my second issue is that they should be more explicit about welcoming the global community that participates in Burning Man to be a part of this theme. Those are two issues that they could easily address when they complete the theme that I think would help a lot of people to feel more comfortable with it.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:59 am

Weeks go by and I come here to check up on y'all.
I keep seeing the same thing.
So many of you who are so "against" this "horrible" theme.
The most vocal and anger filled of you hate it because they put the American flag behind the man and you feel somehow trodden upon by it's inclusion.

...with your petitions and flag burning questions and preaching political babble.

Step back.

Do you live in America? If you do; WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE IS "THE AMERICAN DREAM"
This translates onto the playa in 2008. You can choose to do any F-ing thing you want. If your time is spent BITCHING then you should spend your energy while in Black Rock City walking or running around trying to tell us all that we should not be having the time of our lives because of what you believe the American Flag stands for. Stick a cork in it already...
If you're so disgusted then get off of E-playa and stay off of the real playa. In case you forgot Burningman takes place in Black Rock City. Black Rock City is in Nevada. Nevada is one of the united states. The United States are in America. In America we are free to Dream and chase those dreams.

Is it your dream to bring something to the table to make it better, or to take away from the table to save your face?

Take too much from my table and you may end up losing a hand.

....well, all that being said and I still love reading many of your posts.

SFNathan is the perfect example of someone who disagrees but evolves and adjusts. The theme won't change and shouldn't.

Be positive, find the good. Make that your dream. That's pretty simple.

safe 2008 to y'all

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:44 am

I just read the final revised version of the the theme on the Burning Man site and have to say that I am very excited about it now. I think they incorporated a lot of what we wrote about here and I feel much more comfortable with it.

I still think in the future it would be great if BMORG incorporated their participants in the theme selection process more, so that we are not spectators to the process. But I think the BMORG did a great job of modifying the theme to address some of the community concerns raised.

I like the theme a lot now.

2008 "American Dream" theme

How much do you like the 2008 "American Dream" theme?

Look below the surface....

Re: Look below the surface....

New theme?

Patriotism, Nationalism and PRIDE.

newbie

for 2008

Step back.