Scientology

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:03 pm

me tongue is in me cheek

down boy.....

nobody is being mean.. unless you are taking it that way... why would you do that?

Ingram · Post by **Ingram** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:14 pm

If we are to accept that: "The word Scientology literally means "the study of truth" (while ignoring L. Ron Hubbard's life-long history of lying, and his church's attack on free speech under his "suppressive person" policies), then "study" should include ALL available sources of knowledge.

Therefore, those seeking additional sources of information on Scientology, are encouraged to broaden their knowledge by visiting the extensive online archives at:

www.xenu.net
www.lermanet.com

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:17 pm

The Rolling Stone article was really informative. I wonder if they have it available online?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... cientology

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:29 pm

September 7th 2007

After a ten-year investigation, Belgian prosecutors have charged twelve members of the Church of Scientology. The accusations include fraud, extortion, illegal practice of medicine, and infringement of privacy law, among others. The decision opens the way for Scientology to be considered a criminal organization.

http://stopscientology.blogspot.com/200 ... mbers.html

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:34 pm

Who's in third place ?

http://www.topfive.com/flyingspaghettimonster.shtml

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:46 pm

Box Burner wrote: I too pick the desert made out of fruit. Yum!

Yes, nicely said... I too..... pick this desert with you.... BoxB!......

My we join always in thought, and occasionally in being.... to rejoice!!!

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:09 pm

Mmmm, a whole desert made from fruit. That'll make camping sticky, won't it? I think I might like the dessert made from fruit too ...

Stop me, stop me before I correct spelling again! Ack! I am addicted to teaching!

Hey, shiny thread drift.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:18 pm

"The decision opens the way for Scientology to be considered a criminal organization." This presents a real problem. Can they be considered a criminal organisation and still kep their tax-exempt status???
It works for AIPAC

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:51 pm

It has also worked for the Catholic Church for hundreds of years.
Is mass murder across generations in the charges against the Scientologists ?

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:16 pm

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."

Pass the fruit dessert......

If we can't be good, at least we can eat....

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:27 pm

I wouldn't mind partying with Xenu or one of his species. As far as religion goes the only one out there that I know of that remotely interests me is the SubGenius folks. Bob Dobbs is much cooler than Xenu, plus he smokes a pipe.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:02 pm

Mereth, come join us. We ask for no money and feel that it corrupts the core of spiritualism. No one will call on you to talk about joining. There is no evil devil waiting to suck out your soul. Your soul is your own and no entity whether immortal or not can never obtain what is yours and yours alone- if someone tells you otherwise they only lie to control you by your fears. There are no rules, sins or someplace that bad boy or girls are sent to. There is only what is right for you and the others around you. Do wrong, acknowledge it and do right. Have not guilt or pity, nor contemplate your past. Focus on your good. No God waits to judge you.

You are here on this planet once and only once. You and everyone else move on in one direction, up, higher in spirit and being, born into better planet and life form or spirit. You or the Gods have no control over this. It just is, donâ€™t ask me why, some things we are not meant to understand until its time and we may or may not have the capacity to understand this in the life-form you now inhabit. That is what spiritual and physical evolution is all about. Yes, you evolve in both existences. Trust higher life forms including alien life forms. Compassion and Empathy are common to all higher intelligent life forms for life in this universe is rare, very rare. Be not afraid of death. It is the portal to the next level that you will continue with your own soul intact.

HELLENISM
(What We Believe, What We Stand For)

Hellenism (ELLENIKON ETHNISMOS) is not simply a Religion and Cosmotheory, it is a certain form of human consciousness and an everyday ethos. It is a strong adversary of the so-called "Monotheism" and this not only due to its being the most well-documented of the ancient polytheistic nature-Religions, but also because it is the cultural product of a civilization much higher on all levels.

Hellenism perceives Cosmos (KOSMOS, i.e. the Universe) as an ever-existing Being, which not only was not created by some "creator" God out of nothing (EK TOU MEDENOS), but on the contrary allowed the Gods themselves to be created through its procedures. Hellenism understands Cosmos as APEIRON (Apeiron, Infinity) in great, wonderful order and therefore in Hellenic language Cosmos means also jewel (KOSMOS, KOSMENA). Gods were born inside the Cosmos and live inside it -they are part of it. This is our REAL dispute with the so-called "Monotheism;" not the number of Gods (One or Many, Mono- or Poly-) but where the God or Gods stand in relation to the Cosmos. For the "Monotheists" the Cosmos was created by an ever -existing Being outside it (so in this macro-historical level it is nothing more than a mortal creation). For the "Monotheists" Cosmos is a creation that has to obey the laws of its "creator". For us Hellenes, the eternal Cosmos emerges always from inside of itself (ANADYETAI AFS EAUTOU) and is the creator of all Gods, which have to obey its own laws. In the Hellenic Cosmotheory, these laws are :

ANTIPEPONTHOS Untranslatable into English, but roughly meaning "all events influence others" thought without "cause and effect",
NOMOS The entirey of the universal physical Laws), and
ANAKE (Need and Fate), which all Gods respect and obey.

Due to the eternal nature of Cosmos itself, the Hellenic perception of KRONOS (Time) is not linear (as the followers of Yahweh or the modern "rationalists" declare), nor circular (as many judeo-born occult dogmas teach) through the OUROBOROS symbol (the tail-eater snake), but spiral and leading to APEIRON. Through this shape of Time, the annual circles, the lunar circles, the human (and all) life, and the art of Prophecy, are fully interpreted. History is never "repeated", just similar to the point that identical events happen but always under different circumstances. And the death of humans (and of all mortal forms of life) happens as the philosopher Alkmaion declared, simply "because it is impossible for the end of the circle to touch the beginning". In other words, because it is impossible for the old to become infants again.

For the Hellenic Tradition, or at least its part not yet influenced by the "moral" ideas brought over from eastern civilizations by some famous philosophers as Pythagoras and Plato, no such thing as the "karma" of the eastern theocrats exists, and no "judges" exist in the skies or elsewhere. All dead become automatically holy and then they are born again until through ARETE (Virtue) one day their PSYCHE escapes from the spiral of Time, thus becoming primitive God, DAIMON, a word with a positive meaning for Hellenes, in contrast with Judeo-Christain superstition. HERAKLES (Hercules) is the ultimate symbol of this struggle of each mortal to make his / her way to Olympus, among the Immortal Ones. Hercules is the ultimate symbol for all Hellenes of the past and the present. No, we do not believe in METEMPSYCHOSIS (Re-incarnation) suffering or prospering in this life to pay for or be rewarded for the bad or good actions of previous lives, but instead simply in PALIGENESIA (Rebirth). This perspective distinguishes us from the theocratic dogmas that terrify their believers with "punishments" e.t.c. We love or hate completely outside the Judeo-Christian or karmic designs and dualisms. No dualism of "Good and Evil" exists in the Immortal Cosmos, nor such things as the miscellaneous "moralities" that all the dualistic dogmas spread among humanity. We become virtuous only because we choose to be such.

Our Gods are many and we understand them as completing the make-up of the Universal Sphere of Cosmos to its maximum potential and whole. Thus, from the DODEKAEDRON, a geometric shape (that fills up the sphere to its maximum) we imagine twelve planes, each one presenting a God inside the Cosmos and we define our Hellenic PANTHEON (PAN TON THEON, All The Gods) as DODEKATHEON (Pantheon of The Twelve Gods).The Twelve Gods of ours live inside the Shpere of Cosmos and form its various behaviors. In the same way, the twelve Zodiacs represent twelve "energies" that reach Earth and live inside the humans and animals, thus forming various behaviors as well.

Our Twelve Gods are also called OLYMPIOI (the Olympians) not because, as many want to believe, they.. dwell on Mt. Olympus, as the mountains with this name numbered not one but eighteen throughout the Hellenic World. This is just a poetic conception, similar to the one that wants Pan to dwell in the forests of Arcadia. The word "Olympus" comes from the verb LAMPO (shining). Our Twelve Gods are the "Shining Ones", and the real "Olympus" is not a geographical but a spiritual place, where the Gods really exist.

Another fact worth noting is that these Twelve Gods are not the same Twelve Gods for all Hellenes as some leave Dionysos out, some leave Hestia, etc., replacing them with others. It is the number that counts, not the names of the Gods which in any case number in the thousands- and we must underline here that Hellenism honors and worships not only conscious forces and energies of Nature (as almost all Pagan religions do) but also abstract Ideas, such as Harmony, Eunomia (personified Order), Justice, Freedom, Beauty, Luck, etc. For us, the Ideas are alive and have form and consciousness; they are real deities that simply show themselves through the functions of the human mind.

A basic ("for beginners") form of invocation of the Twelve Olympian Gods, a Pantheon that was worshiped at least since the 16th Century before the Judeo-Christian Era (they are named U-ru-pa-ja-jo in the Linear B inscription of Pylos), and openly until the 9th Century of our times (when the last remains of worship of the ethnic Hellenic Gods were exterminated in Lakonia, under the persecutions by "Saint" Nikon the so-called "Metanoite" i.e. "Repent") is the following:

(The Gods are being invoked in "couples" according to the elements and functions that each "couple" supervises).

* Hestia (the power or denization and of common ethos: all invocations start with her named first.
* The honored God or Goddess of the hellenic lunar month
* Hephaistos - Hestia (alternatively: Hermes - Hestia)
* Ares - Aphrodite
* Apollo - Artemis
* Hermes - Athena (alternatively: Hephaistos - Athena)
* Poseidon - Demeter
* Hera - Zeus

We must emphasize here that the "male" and "female" terms inside the Hellenic Pantheon have nothing to do with the sexism and dualism dwelling in the minds of narrow-minded followers of alien cultures. Our Gods have no genitals. The existence of six Gods and six Goddesses inside the Hellenic Pantheon only serves to declare the total balance of all elements and characteristics inside the Sphere of Cosmos. Understanding the structure, nature and distribution of the Cosmos in this way, Hellenism comes in open opposition to all one-sided and partial dogmas on Cosmos, such as "Monotheism", "Bitheism" e.t.c. Because of this, for centuries now, it has been attacked with all the weapons that the arsenal of its enemies contains, from the burnings and crucifixions by the christianized Romans of Contantinoupolis to the disinformation and slander of the modern servants of the Desert "God" Yahweh (in all their disguises). And it may sound odd, but both we and our enemies know that the power of Hellenism is more than that of a Cosmotheory or of a Religion. It's above all a political and social "how to" theory that means to "haunt" the Every Day Life with its high principles: Dignity, Freedom, Beauty, Honesty, Variety, Tolerance, Candor..

We represent an ethos and a cosmotheory, both deeply admirable, for they never allowed the existence of priestly castes, unquestioning obedience, fear or guilt (Hellenism knows nothing about the word "sin"), dogma, missions, or "sacred" books. We are fighting for the Hellenic Dignity in a country totally dominated by an alien culture and cosmotheory, inside a world which is totally dominated by an alien culture and cosmotheory. We speak a language in which most of its deep meanings are impossible to translate into the widely spoken languages of today, a language that almost nobody can understand (nobody outside Greece can read our journal and books). From a strictly "strategic" perspective, we appear almost insane or, at least, "defeated in advance". But we know that we tread the correct path and that the Gods support us.

And we are in full solidarity with all groups and movements all around the Globe, which work for the restoration of their traditional / indigenous ethos and religions, and also with all the others which fight the multi-faceted war for Freedom, Tolerance, Respect for Nature and Direct Democracy in all levels of Every Day Life.

AIIZ

Compare religions and societies at our height and ask why was it the Greek society that was advancing at a rate so quick. Freedom. Spiritual, social and intellectual freedom. No dogma of dysfunctional conflicting religious rules. No God watching over you like the childrenâ€™s Santa. Freedom from guilt. Freedom from mythical lies!
Remember, if they ask for money they can't attain guidence, nor will you!

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:20 am

hellenism! I know what that is.

It's the story of that troy lady ain't it? You know... the one where she had this big wooden horse. Iknow that story.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:29 am

OK, desert time.

A bowl of peaches...

now pour in some whiskey in the bowl.

yum!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:36 am

naw it's cool mereth, if you want to worship a religion that comes from a half rate science fiction writer who was wanted for being a pederast, and who killed jack parsons as well, you go right ahead....it's a free country

i personally pray to a lesbian cucumber named BaRbarA who comes to me in a dream every fourth thursday.

And keep in mind, i find Jesus and Buddha and Moses and Vishnu and Mohhammed and Tony Robbins to be JUST AS FUCKING STUPID.

i'm so sorry you have been fooled....oh well, we all like to pull the wool over our own eyes.

if you need that crutch, go to it, i certainly wont kick it out from under you.

now where is my little gherkin....and my Frops (tm)

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:07 am

IGNORANCE IS BLISS

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:45 am

Donna, I like your tag line. Thomas Jefferson was also of the opinion that all the laws that have been enacted since the forming of the constitution should be scrapped every 75 years. I agree.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:57 am

Box,

We need a revolution or the US as we know it will die (it already is sliding rapidly towards death). What is taking it's place is tyranny. I won't do well in a tyranny, so my only choice is to fight for revolution. There is a line that I can not pass and I will tolerate no one passing that very same line. It's freedom or death for me.

What all the other people do is totally up to them. Most are ignorantly in bliss, buying stuff and doing meaningless things. As a group though, Burners understand freedom even if most do not understand where it comes from. Some will survive to re-create a government if the US falls. Any speculation on who that will be?

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:59 am

GREAT BOWL OF PEACHES, BY-THE-WAY....

YUMMY YUM

mereth · Post by **mereth** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:29 am

Wow. I leave this thread for a few hours to get some actual work done and look what happens!

OK, Here goes.

Donna Matrix, I'm really not interested in "fighting" with anyone about their religious beliefs and I would appreciate the same in return - again, Golden Rule. I saw on another thread some people giving you shit for your beliefs and I, retrospectively, wish I would have joined in defending you. Maybe we wouldn't be fighting if I had. Again, not looking for a fight, I'm just sick of hearing all the bullshit out there that's being bandied about and felt I needed to say SOMETHING.

Ingram, I've looked at some of the content of these sites you mention, and while I freely admit there's enough grains of truth to worry even me, I still take everything these say with enough grains of salt to fill a small third-world country. Why? I have my reasons.
After all:
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."
Mark Twain, (attributed)
US humorist, novelist, short story author, & wit (1835 - 1910)

As far as pending litigation, I have no comment other than if they are truly guilty, then I agree that they should be sentenced. I have faith in a proper justice system. I however do not necessarily have faith in the judge or jury to be as impartial as would probably be needed. And therein lies the inherent flaw in any justice system.

AZeus, I have been following your "Gods" thread for a while and after reading your post newly, I have come to the conclusion that we actually have a lot in common but are just expressing it in different ways. There are things that we will have to agree to disagree on, but for the most part the underlying spirituality runs in an at least somewhat similar vein.

Simon, thank you. All I ask is that you don't try to kick out my crutch. I would have to hurt you.

Now that that's (hopefully) settled - anyone want a beer?

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:24 am

Yes, a dark one.

I am usually way too drunk to fight anyways. Whose fighting?

Just typing some words on the screen between studying for law school finals... no problems. no worries. no hassles.

I really don't give a shit about what anybody believes. I figure everyone has a brain... let them figure it out.

ADULT = a person who makes a decision, right, wrong, or indifferent and then lives with the consequences knowing full well that they can make another decision to fix the previous one at any time.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:36 am

Yep beer all around.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:14 pm

ah... beer buzz early in the morning... my kind of day..

that and the drugs for my back - soon I will be in great shape...

"Cheers"

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:48 pm

scary spooky stuff.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:22 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:Some will survive to re-create a government if the US falls. Any speculation on who that will be?

I'm fixing on hanging around. Got me a pickup, a genny, plenty of tools, a couple must have books, some survival exp., and most important the desire to live free and survive. I have a feeling alot of burners that aren't soft will make out OK too. Personally I won't be too worried about a new government since I will likely be having enough work just surviving away from the weak masses that will be busy rioting and tearing their communities apart from the inside out. Cities = Bad and Far Away = Good. I guess if all else fails I'll show up in the desert somewhere looking for likeminded folks that also have tools, trucks, and whatnot.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:55 pm

tools, trucks and survival gear... i'm all for that.

Anybody heard of the new movie - EndGame? I'm going to see it. Sounds interesting.

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:08 pm

Well, now that we've totally thread drifted this thread..................

Yea, I'd like to see End Game... and "I am legend"......... It's fantasy.... but the instincts drawn in your thought's are fun......

Afterall... Governments, Religion, Burningman.... and all forms of (Ab)Normalcy in our lives are...............well,....... just created by us.............

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:16 pm

Toolmaker wrote:
Donna Matrix wrote:Some will survive to re-create a government if the US falls. Any speculation on who that will be?
I'm fixing on hanging around. Got me a pickup, a genny, plenty of tools, a couple must have books, some survival exp., and most important the desire to live free and survive. I have a feeling alot of burners that aren't soft will make out OK too. Personally I won't be too worried about a new government since I will likely be having enough work just surviving away from the weak masses that will be busy rioting and tearing their communities apart from the inside out. Cities = Bad and Far Away = Good. I guess if all else fails I'll show up in the desert somewhere looking for likeminded folks that also have tools, trucks, and whatnot.

I see the biggest problem with surviving a national or global scaled breakdown is in the fact that everyone will be scattering and looking for whatever they can to survive. even the most isolated parts of the country will be inundated with people looking for food, and refuge - i plan on heading north to canada, Alaska, or the islands geographical isolation is your best friend. I feel the lower 48 will be hosed.

just my opinion.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:27 pm

Trying to live without electricity will be the hardest for most. That and trying to live "off the land" whether by agricultural or hunting or both. So many are living off corporate goods. They don't even know what food is... I know because I teach nutrition at the local junior college.

Every semester I start the class by asking... "What is food?" and only a few have ever been able to answer...

The question is... "What is food...?"

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:05 pm

any substance that can be metabolized by an organism to give energy and build tissue

I cheated for that one -

Scientology

Practicing what is Preached