Need help for Seriously Injured at BM 07'

undeclared · Post by **undeclared** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:00 pm

thats really unfortunate, I guess I consider myself really lucky for having free health care up in canada. there isnt anyway to get treatment outside the country? for cheaper?

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:05 pm

I think their main expense is the helicopter ride to reno. I believe he said that was $25,000 alone.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:14 pm

undeclared: buy travel medical insurance. Including medical evacuation insurance.

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:37 pm

I truly feel for your plite it sounds horrible. Nothing so bad has ever happened to me. To be blown up. That is more than tragic. It is horrific.

I would love to send you some money.

Can you please up date me on the BMOrg verification of your listing?

Love and Respect
A. Thumper

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:43 pm

i forgot about this. i crossposted and mentioned it elsewhere but i am not in the bay area and wondered if anything happened.

stargeezer · Post by **stargeezer** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:44 am

After this discussion, it amazes me that others have recently posted in another thread how much fun they have throwing propane canisters into a fire as a joke. It is a shame that the pranksters are rarely the ones to be hurt, and when they hurt others, they just fade away rather than take responsibility for their actions.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:43 am

Has anyone thought that maybe someone threw a canister in the garbage and another person just threw it into the fire not thinking to check what was in the trash.

Sebastian Simpson I wouldn't send you money nor would I advise anyone else to send you money without you getting a bank account opened by the bank president as a trustee. Recently, that is what we had to do to collect donation for a family that was in a car accident. Money shouldn't never be sent directly to a person, but a tax free trust fund or bank account- not pay pal!
YOu may be sincere and truthful, but some people aren't and too many kind considerate people are taken every day.

Once you get that set up by talking to your banker for his advice because the laws are different in Canada then the US, you can come back and list his name, phone and bank information. You can also talk to your local paper and have a news reporter do an article on your situation.

Word to the un-wise, never stand around those trash burns at the end of the event unless someone has been monitoring it!

AIIZ

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:09 pm

Keep in mid that we are talking about Burningman.. NOT Rainbow. You can be KILLED at Burningman. Read the back of the ticket. While some folks may toss propane cans into fires that they are SUPPOSED to there are plenty of asshats that toss shit in the public burn barrels. Those whippet canisters are no fun to toss into a fire. There is a whole world of difference between someone tossing something they are supposed to into a private burn and someone tossing something they shouldn't in a public burn barrel. If everyone is so worried about shrapnel and getting burned maybe you should try Rainbow Gatherings. I hear they have very few injuries.. I'm just sayin.. it might be safer for ya.

Cabana Springs · Post by **Cabana Springs** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:37 pm

I say we find the son-of-a-bitch and blow him up - You know "an eye for an eye"

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:17 pm

Keep in mid that we are talking about Burningman.. NOT Rainbow. You can be KILLED at Burningman.

WHAT???

And you can't get killed at a Rainbow Gathering? Dude, you've obviously never had that tofu, eggplant, cabbage stir-fry with tamarind flavored couscous frijata they serve at the Central Kitchen next door to the Radical Faeries. Can you say bio-hazard? I mean, the poor hippie fucks who weren't fighting over a line at the open pit toilet were dragging their ass on the grass like a pack of dogs with worms.

Two days later those sorry fucks looked liked they'd been in the Bataan Death March.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:37 pm

I might have to goto a Rainbow Gathering now just to see that. I will NOT be eating anyone elses food.. but I will be bringin a BBQ and grilling STEAK!

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:52 pm

And you can't get killed at a Rainbow Gathering?

Obviously you haven't seen "The Tripper" yet.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:54 pm

Badger wrote:
Keep in mid that we are talking about Burningman.. NOT Rainbow. You can be KILLED at Burningman.
WHAT???

And you can't get killed at a Rainbow Gathering? Dude, you've obviously never had that tofu, eggplant, cabbage stir-fry with tamarind flavored couscous frijata they serve at the Central Kitchen next door to the Radical Faeries. Can you say bio-hazard? I mean, the poor hippie fucks who weren't fighting over a line at the open pit toilet were dragging their ass on the grass like a pack of dogs with worms.

Two days later those sorry fucks looked liked they'd been in the Bataan Death March.

First I ever heard of the Rainbow Gathering was 1984. Supposedly, a woman threw her baby in the fire.

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:05 am

You can be KILLED at Burningman.

If someone was killed at burning man then that would be murder. You can die at burning man.

If you where KILLED at Burning Man then the State of Nevada would step in and investigate.

If the BMorg did stand by and watch as someone was killed, then they would be liable. The reality is, it does not matter what the ticket says, you can print anything you want on it. If someone intentionally hurts another they are liable.

Nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. They will tell you that you are bound by "law" to go along. This goes into the "Spirit of the Law" v. "Letter of the Law" again.

NOTE: If you are not familiar with the Spirit v. Letter debate, please do some research.

And nobody is going to get killed around me. They will have to kill me first.

Tool maker you seem pretty smart to confuse the basic definitions of words. Has our Educational system go so a stray?

This is like saying that you can "REALLY" sign your soul away to the devil or in a contract into slavery. No one can make you a slave, but if they do and if you are stronger than you can make them a slave. A huge cycle of slaves enslaving slaves.

Contracts mean nothing if written with malice in mind.

NOTE: To NOOBS Nobody and I mean nobody can make you do anything you don't want to. If you don't like something or you feel you are being hurt. GET OUT OF THERE QUICK! If you don't like it, it is not for you. Don't let others tell convince you it is OK. If you are not sure ask someone. If it doesn't sound right ask someone else. And if it still sounds really wrong, GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE and don't look back, unless you are just going to lay down and take it or you are ready for the fight of your life.

2008 is Gonna Rock!

Burning Man is about having fun, a celebration of life... and death... and rebirth to self.

If I am wrong somebody please show me the U.S. Constitutional law that says differnet

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:26 am

Mousy Mouse, I liked you better with the hamster wearing boxing gear icon.
Could you please change it back ?

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:04 am

oneeyeddick wrote:Mousy Mouse, I liked you better with the hamster wearing boxing gear icon.
Could you please change it back ?

Yeah well that was my training gear.

And ahhhhhhhhhhhh, excuse me OneEyedDick, Burning Man is what you make of it. If "you" don't like that I have the guts to show my face then that is your problem not mine.

I do not hide behind masks. Unless it is for "THE BIG SHOW" and since life is nothing more than a big show, I guess the mask you see is the mask I will always wear during my proformance.

I am not a sock puppet, I create sock puppets.

[youtube][/youtube]

Green Wood · Post by **Green Wood** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:42 pm

The Rainbow people are very smart. They separate those drinking alcohol from those doing mind altering drugs and those that don't do anything at all.

Been there, Done that!

Its a cult!

AZ

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:16 am

Although I hate lawyers and our litigation-happy society, I must clear up some misconception: "back of the ticket" applies to lawsuits against BMORG and its affiliates, not to civil suits against your fellow Burners. (Not sure what cause of action anyone could possibly have against BMorg for a whippet cannister in a burn barrel.)

Just statin' the obvious once again

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:26 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:Although I hate lawyers and our litigation-happy society, I must clear up some misconception: "back of the ticket" applies to lawsuits against BMORG and its affiliates, not to civil suits against your fellow Burners. (Not sure what cause of action anyone could possibly have against BMorg for a whippet cannister in a burn barrel.)

Just statin' the obvious once again

You can always sue for negligence no matter what contracts you have signed. However, since you don't know who did this nor was BMORG negligent, I doubt you have anyone to sue.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:12 pm

Toolmaker wrote:Keep in mid that we are talking about Burningman.. NOT Rainbow. You can be KILLED at Burningman. Read the back of the ticket. If everyone is so worried about shrapnel and getting burned maybe you should try Rainbow Gatherings. I hear they have very few injuries.. I'm just sayin.. it might be safer for ya.

I went to the national rainbow gathering last year after seeing some snarky post on here.
My camp was a thousand vertical feet from the main area.
The unlit and unfenced road had a sheer drop two feet from the edge.
There were rain forest conditions and the people in the camp I was in had been there for weeks doing set up and would stay for the clean up.
Big crowds in spite of much police harassment, mud, parking problems and a long walk to set up camp.
The park service has tried to sue them out of existence, so they have dissolved their organization and still put on national events.
I'm sure they could be jazzier if not for that.
They did manage to field a dazzling array of talent including a Czech concert violinist.
The guy with the loudest curtains in camp was a burner.(fluorescent leopard print)
Many consider burners sellouts for giving in to park service demands for money.

It's not burning man, but I wouldn't dismiss their determination.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:00 pm

BitterDan wrote:You can always sue for negligence no matter what contracts you have signed.

Well, you can always sue for any damn thing under the sun because no one at the courthouse reviews civil complaints to check for lucidity or a valid claim. That having been said, sue someone for negligence after signing a hold harmless agreement or a release and you're likely to get your case dismissed and have the joy of paying someone's attorney's fees. Except for certain subject matter, this will be a matter of individual state law. Intentional acts and gross negligence are likely a different story all together, but not typically for plain negligence.

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:22 pm

You win semantic-boy.

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:22 am

Teo del Fuego wrote:
BitterDan wrote:You can always sue for negligence no matter what contracts you have signed.
Well, you can always sue for any damn thing under the sun because no one at the courthouse reviews civil complaints to check for lucidity or a valid claim. That having been said, sue someone for negligence after signing a hold harmless agreement or a release and you're likely to get your case dismissed and have the joy of paying someone's attorney's fees. Except for certain subject matter, this will be a matter of individual state law. Intentional acts and gross negligence are likely a different story all together, but not typically for plain negligence.

I have never signed anything to get into BM, disclaimers on the back of a ticket do not constitute a contract.

Ms. Lampman's estate filed suit after her death - its still in court last I heard.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:26 am

I had to sign something agreeing not to contravene the Official Secrets Act.
When I asked about it, they told me they couldn't discuss it.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:39 am

Just curious, how many posting in this thread are practicing lawyers?

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:13 am

Thread drift has it's place on the eplaya but IMHO this is not the best thread for it to show up in. With that being said I'm going to quote the original post....do they still need help (I bet they do) and can any of us as part of the BM Community at large do anything to help? Perhaps refocusing this thread might inspire someone new to get involved.

Dj Smashee wrote:My wife (Christine Olney) and I (Sebastian Simpson) just married on August 12th, 2007, after knowing each other and becoming best of friends over the last 10 years. We decided to go to Burning Man for are honeymoon. We both are long time BM vets, since 1998 and have always contributed to are community as performers, givers and involvment in variouse projects like Death Guild, Thunder Dome, El Circo and Purgatory Cruiser. We're both strong believers and consitantly practice taking care of others. Well, now Christine and I are asking for your help.

On the morning of Sunday Sept. 2nd 2007, the sun was just about to peak over the eastern mountain and everything was so beautifull. We pulled up to a burn can with a few friends and proceeded to stoke the fire. After about 15 - 20 minutes there was an explosion from the burn can that sent ambers, chunks of wood and other debri flying in all directions. Christine and a couple of friends were standing 10 feet from the can and I was behind her another 10 feet walking towards them. Right after the explosion I see my new wife fall to the ground and another friend double over. I run to Christine and find that debri had smacked her in the eye. My friend who had doubled over was hit in the gut by a Nitrous Oxide Cartridge that had split in half. Some idiot left a full canister in the burn can for unsuspecting victims. Ended up Christine was air lifted to Reno for a wopping sum of $26,890.00. We have no Insurance and the bills are climbing so so high. To this day Christine is still blind in her eye and we have been trying to make it with just my income. But now we are in jeopardy of eviction. I recieved a little help with food and utilities, but are roof is about to be gone. We are keeping one of are car loans current but can't afford the other, and on and on and on. This individuals act has devastated us and we are in this whirl wind with no light at the end.

Please if you can help with anything, resources, money, anything!! contact me at
[email protected]
(530)575-1488
or
(415)225-4459

Desperately in Need,
Christine Olney & Sebastian Simspon

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:27 am

Good point.
I hope someone can help out.

Last year I bought trip insurance based on my flight cost only.
Adding medical cost only $3 as it was based on the amount of trip insurance.
I don't know if it is easy to do this if you are driving.
Total cost was $15.
I was told it covered flight costs out of the desert.

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:18 pm

Gyre -

If its that ridiculously cheap - I say BMORG finds a stand alone insurance plan and if its less than 20-30 bones attach it to the price of the ticket and make it compulsory for all attendees. So whether they want it or not - its included in the ticket price.

Good to hear from you Gyre, Hope your doing well.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:04 pm

Good to see you too, mdmf007!

The insurance pricing may be an anomaly, but I wanted to make people aware of it.
The cost is based on the stated value of the trip, but the insurance coverage doesn't go up with higher cost.
I insured ticket costs only which was around $300 and I hope covered the cost of a changed flight.
It was offered through the airline through another company.
I'm guessing they could write off tickets.
I also don't know if they pay claims.

It might be possible to cover insurance through tickets if personal insurance kicked in first.
I think it would cost more than $3 though.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:26 pm

I strongly recommend travel insurance. I wish I had had it.

Need help for Seriously Injured at BM 07'

Re: Need help for Seriously Injured at BM 07'