The Contraption 2.0

stargeezer · Post by **stargeezer** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:50 am

I would agree with the others that converting to four cylinder steam is the way to go, although my reasoning is slightly different.

1. If you really need an air compressor on board, a small belt driven one could be added with a clutch such that you could disengage it when you needed more drive power.

2. If you plan on converting to four cylinder, and then decide to revert back to two, that would be easier than starting with two and finding out you needed four.

3. Just becasue I like to tinker, even if it took a couple hours to convert between two and four, I think it be fun to experiment with both so you understod the trade-offs rather than educated guesses.

4. If you had an air horn and a steam whistle, I wonder what kind of tunes you could make??

5. I have no idea how hard it was to handle last year, but would air assist brakes and steering be of any benefit??

6. Getting a bit carried away now, but have you thought of adding a belt driven alternator for lighting at night?

7. Lastly, really off topic, could you direct the steam exhaust so it vents upward during the day when it is warm, and then heat the seats at night when it is cold??

I wonder if this would have enough power to pull a wagon or ....

If you listen to me too much, you will end up with a ContrapLimo.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:51 am

Now that thing is right down my ally.. Dissassemble, clean, repair, regasgett and reassemble.. Leaving all the rust on the outside case, for affect..

I was hoping you would get an old one lunger.. One of the cone shaped.. Some did not have removeable heads.. JUst bored passages.. I'll see if I have a pic of the one from the playa that pulled a pony cart type wagon..

The Contraption moves well with four people pumping the flywheel.. Dose this mean a smaller horsepower boiler and less steam pressure out put??

In that case you would not need all four.. The compresser could be releaved when more power to the flywheel was needed..

Find a broken gas gennie and power the gennie for camp stuff with steam..

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Full Steam gets my vote.

Not to take any thunder away from LcN v2.0 but..

Did anyone get to see Chicken Johns walnut shell powered truck?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:33 pm

I also say "full steam"! Too much power isn't a problem, too little is.
If you want onboard air, the belt-driven air compressor idea works great. I have one on my 4x4 truck - it's an old-style ('60's) piston type air conditioner compressor with a pressure switch from a home air compressor wired to the pulley clutch; it cuts in at 90 and off at 120psi. It makes lots of air volume too.
I wouldn't go with a standard 120/240VAC generator head because they need to be spun at a constant 3600RPM in order to make 60Hz AC power.

I don't think I've ever heard a 4-cylinder steam engine running. I've only seen singles and twins. It might be really really really really cool!

Oh yeah... by the way... nothing is cooler than a real steam whistle on your mutant vehicle!

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:37 pm

Wow!!! I knew you guys would have lots of ideas and insight.

So it looks like full steam is a winner and it makes perfect sense. And I like stargeezerâ€™s line by line format, so I'll just reply that way too, I think.

1. If you really need an air compressor on board, a small belt driven one could be added with a clutch such that you could disengage it when you needed more drive power.

I either hadnâ€™t thought about using an old automobile compressor or had and have since forgotten it. Either way, its a good idea and would be easy enough to rig up. I suspect the harder part of that would be hiding the parts of it that look too modern, actually. Yep... Thanks guys... a very good idea and the way to go if compressed air is deemed to be a needed thing.

2. If you plan on converting to four cylinder, and then decide to revert back to two, that would be easier than starting with two and finding out you needed four.

For a fellow whoâ€™s had to setup machines for specific processes, this makes good sense too. Itâ€™s easier to turn out two parts when the machine is already setup, than to come back later and have to start from scratch a second time.

3. Just becasue I like to tinker, even if it took a couple hours to convert between two and four, I think it be fun to experiment with both so you understod the trade-offs rather than educated guesses.

Gven enough time to do it, its true that a comparision would be fun to do. And fortunately the way this thing is made it would be easy enough to convert back to a two and two setup.

4. If you had an air horn and a steam whistle, I wonder what kind of tunes you could make??

Oh, there will be at least one steam whistle. And Iâ€™m wondering about converting the Unhorn to steam as well, or at least air. And on a similar note, I had at one time thought of setup to go on a bicycle that used compressed air tank and a chain driven rotary valve with a spinning apparatus that revolved different horns over a valve opening to play a like a music box or caliapee. (ETA: If somebody wants to take this idea and run with it, it yours... feel free. don't wait on me to do it. that could take decades)

5. I have no idea how hard it was to handle last year, but would air assist brakes and steering be of any benefit??

The brakes were terrific, even thoug we often cleared a path through crowds by yelling, â€œNO BRAKES!!â€

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:56 pm

Toolmaker wrote: Not to take any thunder away from LcN v2.0 but..

Did anyone get to see Chicken Johns walnut shell powered truck?

Man... you're not stealing any thunder from me. I didn't see the Chicken truck, but Karine and I did get a chance to work for just a bit on Mecabolic (Jim Mason's related project). When we were there working, they had part of it running. A beautiful one-lung diesel engine that put out this great "CHUMP-CHUMP-CHUMP" sound. We came back the next day hoping to hear that big v-8 fire up, but they had already had it running and moved the whole thing about 80 feet or so under it's own power.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:20 pm

#1 thread
#1 project
#1 shade tree builders
#1 friendliest group of people
#1 fan

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:22 pm

unjonharley wrote:The Contraption moves well with four people pumping the flywheel.. Dose this mean a smaller horsepower boiler and less steam pressure out put??

In that case you would not need all four.. The compresser could be releaved when more power to the flywheel was needed..

The thing about a monotube boiler is that they are better suited to consistent steam production, rather than an accelerate and idle type situation. However, I talked with the fellow who I bought the boiler plans from and he felt that, given the situation it was to be used in, adding a couple of inches to the boiler height would be enough to keep it running and give a bit for a speed up here and there.

And I've been conversing with the guy who had much to do with the Neverwas Runabout. Real nice fellow... Come to find out, he added a small pressure vessel to the side of his monotube boiler to make it a Lamont style boiler. This extra place for heated water acted as a steam bank and gave it some "padding" when you needed to accelerate. I'm thinking about this option too.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:42 am

[youtube][/youtube]

The Homemade Contraption

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:50 pm

Heh Hehâ€¦

Long live Rube Goldberg!!

I saw something like that some time ago that (I think) used an entire automobile, in the form of parts, to make a similar setup. I think it may have been a car commercial, in fact. I remember that it had one part where the windshield wiper motors, with arms attached, did this really weird, almost creepy looking crawl across the floor to set off the next stage of the process.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Contraption Update:

The other head was pulled off this evening to check out what might lay within and the news is very good. As suspected, the other pistons are also 180 degrees opposed to each other. And... the compressor is setup on a 60 degree V (thus advancing one sideâ€™s pistons 60 degrees around the crankshaft), so that means that there are no two pistons at TDC at any one time. This is good for power and it also makes sure that the engine is self-startingâ€¦ no need to give any pulleys or flywheels a spin to get it going.

So yesâ€¦ Four pistons = Good!

bigbluedoggy · Post by **bigbluedoggy** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:46 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Yup it's a Honda ad called Cog. Done in one single camera shot. Took over 600 takes to get it all to work right. I think it played exactly once on air... during the SuperBowl I believe. That Rube Goldberg thing from T4 above was obviously done in many different takes but is still quite cool! People with far too much time on their hands I'd say!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:14 pm

Ever seen the Eames videos? They are like that.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:37 am

Actually, the cog ad was done in two shots (the building they were working in was not large enough to do the whole thing in one run), with the only computer trick being a merge of the two shots. Which does not make it any less impressive.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:33 am

This video I found on youtube has a great action shot of the Contraption pumping by.
It's a long vid, but you won't mind 'cuz it's a good one.[youtube][/youtube]

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:32 am

BAS:
You should be hearing from a member of our Kinetic Sculpture Racing Camp who lives in a place called... Madison, WI. (Ask and you shall....

) There is a KSR Camp thread under 2008 Theme Camps. And there are vehicle building threads with useful information under... hmmm... Q & A, I think... look for Wheeled Vehicle Construction and Tracked Vehicle Construction.

TJ:
1" square steel with .065 wall is my favorite frame building material. (Not that this fact is of any authority, but it sure works for me!

)

As for the question of how many cylinders to convert to steam power, it seems to me this depends primarily on how much pressure the steam will have. I really have no idea, but I have heard of steam machinery blowing rivets out like rifle bullets, and outright exploding, so maybe 30 PSI of air pressure on the other side would not be noticable. Still, I join the opinion of converting the whole compressor, if only to minimize the needed steam pressure.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:17 pm

Captain, thanks for finding and sharing that video. Seeing the rusty hunk creep by was pretty funny and enjoyable. Iâ€™d never seen it from the perspective of someone who was standing on the side of the street as it approached, passed by and then traveled on. Too cool.

And another good point Elliotâ€¦

With more cylinders, less steam pressure could be used and still get more power, more smoothly, than just two.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:02 pm

Elliot--

Thanks! I also had a co-worker point out that I could probably get welding help if I ask around the people in the maintenance department (since, uhm, some of them do welding on the job... don't know why I didn't think of that...

I'd forgotten about the KSR Camp thread..., and the name of the thread under Q&A. (I'd tried to look for the one under Q&A but either missed it or didn't look through enough pages.)

I think I got a few things figured out while playing with my drawings during my breaks today. I'll have to see if they still make sense Monday when I look at them again.

Thanks again.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:07 am

Anyone familiar with these?

http://www.brassgoggles.co.uk/brassgoggles/?p=125

Take off the tail end of the url to get the main page.. pretty neat steampunk site.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:27 pm

Yeah... it's pretty cool huh?

I pop in from time to time over on the brassgoggles forum. Same username on other forums, too. The guys in dark suits from the Gub'ment said it was easier for them if I did it this way, and you know, it never hurts to help.

There's another good forum put on by Steampunk Magazine, too...

http://www.steampunkmagazine.com/forum/index.php

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:49 pm

Wait. You're wearing a dark suit.

ARe you from the gubnent?

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:20 pm

ARe you from the gubnent?

Nope... The way you can tell is that I don't have the groovy dark shades like them gub'ment men do.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:46 pm

http://catskillarchive.com/rrextra/03.wav
http://catskillarchive.com/rrextra/02.wav

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:08 pm

Hey!! I was working on the numbers for the eccentrics just now, as a matter of fact. The very thing that will actuate the valves and make it goâ€œchugga chuggaâ€

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:23 pm

[quote="LeChatNoir"]Hey!! I was working on the numbers for the eccentrics just now, as a matter of fact. The very thing that will actuate the valves and make it goâ€œchugga chuggaâ€

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:53 am

Hehehehe he said â€œchugga chuggaâ€

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:10 pm

burp!

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:20 pm

Contraption update: Leap Day Eve!!!

So I forced myself... twisted my own arm I mean... and took the time to get some parts turned out for the steam engine (And as usual, I'll describe things in greater detail than some of you experienced types may need, but remember... if a newbie comes across this, they'll have a good understanding of the processes and maybe decide that they could do such things too!!).

Below are some pics with descriptions:

Firstly, there was a cover on the face of the compressor that covered much of the shaft and left no space for the eccentrics (which are needed to actuate the valves), so I had to replace that with a lower profile cover. When I pulled the old cover off to inspect it, I found a small inlet for oil from the crankcase, presumably to insure lube getting to the crank shaft bearings. To address this, I turned a recess to fit an oil seal. Gotta' keep that stuff off the playa, you know.

Hereâ€™s a pic of the old cover in place on the compressor:

And hereâ€™s the new cover in place, showing how much of the shaft was made usable.

A detail shot of the new cover, showing the recess for the oil seal. I also put a bronze bearing for added support. The oil seal goes in front of this so it'll get lube as well. For reference, the O.D. is 4.00â€

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:39 pm

oOOOoo!! Nice pretty new parts!! Someone has a new machine lathe??!! Suddenly I got a whole new outlook on your design and the work needed to make a steam engine out of the compressor. That's a lot more than just modifying the existing valve system. Intriguing!!

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:58 am

Yeahâ€¦ it this were a single cylinder compressor (and I were the type of person to do things quickly) then I think the whole job could have been done with a drill press and some store bought brass valves.

A four cylinder v-type pump made it more complicated, though. In truth, if you had to you could probably do this one like that as well, but the end result would not be the same. Iâ€™d rather try to make it look as if it was originally made to be what it will be in the end.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:56 am

Nice~~

thanks Mr Noir
keep it coming we love the stop sign...I mean the contraption.

Hehehehe