Scientology

All things outside of Burning Man.
Post Reply
User avatar
Kinetik V
Posts: 1652
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:43 am
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Sanctuary West

Post by Kinetik V » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:53 pm

mereth wrote:Bullshit. My response is mostly written already and I contacted no one for vetting. I just prefer to write the whole thing in one long stream and go back to edit as my emotions on the subject calm down and I achieve a more objective/amiable frame of mind.
It's called thinking before "speaking".
I might not even post it today. You might have to wait till tomorrow for me to finish my editing.
FYI, the only time I contacted someone in the church in regards to this thread was to find out what the hell Badger was trying to say late on the last page since I didn't have a Scientology dictionary to hand. And even then, I only asked for what the reference was and left it at that.

Edit @ 6:05 pm: Yup, you'll have to wait for tomorrow. Not done yet and signing off for the evening.
The timestamp of that post is:
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject:
We're still waiting..........
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:57 pm

^ This is a good point, make with the response ^
Burning Man Virgin

Toolmaker
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:44 pm

Post by Toolmaker » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:52 pm

Roxxi:

Did you take the challenge to prove Scientology is real and collect your million dollars?

A few things you and mereth may not know about BM but should since you are Scientologists.

There are ALOT of gay folk at Burningman, and we love each and every one.. especially the ones dressed like cheerleaders.

There are ppl like me that have been declared fair game and have been victimized by Co$ cronies for years, everything from having false police reports made to being struck by a car while at work in the parkinglot.

There is NO COMMERCE.

Keep your participation in the Burningman project a secret from other Scientologists. If the Co$ finds out you could find yourself a slave in SeaOrg.

K: mereth cannot address any of the issues folks have with the Co$. The evidence against this cult is overwhelming. The cult was even banned in another country.


If mereth and any other Scientologist really want to come in this thread and defend or explain than how about this.. this happened to me so its not heresay from some website.

A few years ago an old friend was facing financial ruin from his involvement with the cult. Myself and a couple others intervened and saved him before he wound up pennyless.

What I want to know is why was I declared an SP and FAIRGAME for saving my friend from homelessness?

Why were the police contacted by a Scientologist claiming to be my "brother" and tell them that I was in the process of murdering my wife? Funny how I almost got shot by the Miami Beach Police when leaving my home to goto the beach. I opened the door to find officers lined up waiting to breach. There were about 30 officers dispatched that day with many more on the way. There were 2 police helicopters and 2 MBPD boats in the causeway.

Miami Beach PD would not prosecute since the caller used something called a spoofcard to hide their phone number from police operators. My word alone that the Scientologist called me afterwards laughing like Tom Cruise was not enough to extradite and prosecute.

Why did they harass my place of employment accusing me of things like child molestation until my boss had to let me go?

Why did they follow me to my next job and hit me with a car and leave the scene while I was smoking in the parkinglot?

Why do they want me to know thats its them by calling me and bragging about how "untouchable" they are?

I did these fuckers a favor by saving my friend from their cult. He would have been yet another victim of the cult if I hadn't saved him. One would think that they would be happy to avoid more bad publicity. But NOOO lets declare me fair game and destroy him.

Well you fuckers have pushed me and many others too fuckin far. Now the cult gets to reap what they have sown. Never forgive. Never forget.

Feb. 10th

In closing I still don't see why anyone from Co$ would want to goto Burningman. Burningmans 10 principles are the opposite of Scientology. I know ppl bitch about the gate price going up but its not 3500$ yet. Co$ charges 3500 just to put your foot in the door.

3500 DOLLARS JUST TO SIGN UP FOR THE FIRST SET OF BOOKS!!!

Ya see.. we burners believe in radical inclusion.. we love the poor working class folks as much as the rich. We only charge a couple hundred and some can get in for reduced prices or free with 2 weeks of work!
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:40 am

damn, thats a new level of psychosis from $. How'd they know it was you that helped your friend get out?
Burning Man Virgin

User avatar
dana
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 9:39 am
Location: Boulder,Colorado/Northern California

Post by dana » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:57 pm

Toolmaker, that is some totally wierd-ass shit! So I take it SP and Fairgame refers to the designated target, and the act of harrassment of "enemies of the church"?

I suppose it needs to be asked. How do we know your story is true?
(not saying it isn't, just that this is the internet and enough people have thought I might be bullshitting on some of my posts.)

This is making devil's advocacy more difficult, but I have to point out this re. paying for the information. You generally always have to pay something to go to most technical lectures, to get books or tapes. I belong to a group which some on the eplaya would certainly think of as a cult and I definitely pay for the information. But it doesn't seem exhorbitant. ($275 for a weekend, about $30 for a 3 hour tape). I've paid out a lot of money over the years but it feels very worth every penny.
So really, how much are people paying for what amount of value?
Now that we have 2 scientologists responding to the thread, I'm curious if either of you would care to lay out with some detail the exact ways that scientology has made your life better - specifics.
Also I'm curious whether either of you have done any "comparison shopping" - carefully considering what you wanted to get out of it and looked around to see if there was another venue which could provide what you seek.
A final question addresses some of the criticism being launched. sort of two part. So how much is critical thinking, skepticism, circumspection actually being encouraged or expanded upon as a useful vantage point? What would happen if you were hanging with fellow scientologists and you started ripping on various aspects of the program that you didn't like and might want to change - ie. is dissention really repressed? (even if unspoken, inferred.)

eager to hear your replies.

User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
Posts: 20301
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West

Post by AntiM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:15 pm

Hmm, Mormons are more than happy to tell you all about their beliefs. Anyone can get a free Book of Mormon, http://www.mormon.org/bookofmormon.

No, I'm not promoting mormonism, just saying the book's free, if anyone wants one for their library. Missionary visits are optional, I think.

It's the lifelong 10% of your income membership fee that's the catch. I mean, I was eight and I was paying tithing on my allowance! I told Mom I thought it was unfair because she and dad had already paid tithing on it. That's the closest I came to being punished!

Fair market value of information and knowledge. Interesting.

User avatar
dana
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 9:39 am
Location: Boulder,Colorado/Northern California

Post by dana » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:24 pm

yeah, and the Gideons give it out for free too.

Doesn't seem like an adequate comparison. New and Improved!! always commands a higher price. The bible and the Merry old land of Mo have been around awhile.

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:48 pm

that is exactly right about fair game

"ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by
any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the
Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

A SP is a Supressive Person, ie anyone who doesnt agree with them
Burning Man Virgin

User avatar
dana
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 9:39 am
Location: Boulder,Colorado/Northern California

Post by dana » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:55 pm

Mr.MaskedDude wrote: "ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by
any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the
Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."
OK, so you put that in quotes. Where does the quoted text come from? Has it been definitively tied to agendas officially (or more likely unofficially) sanctioned by COS?
If it has, I can't imagine they wouldn't be getting some extra attention from uncle Fed. Do they hold nonprofit church status?

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:06 pm

HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967 Issue IV
Copyright (c) 1967
by L. Ron Hubbard

view it at
http://www.planetkc.com/sloth/sci/Fair_game_ord.html
http://www.fairgamed.org/fairgame.htm
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f08.html
http://www.xenu.net/fairgame-e.html

The argument could be made that these are all posted by sites that are SP's in the first place and therefore the documents are in question...however a group as litigious as the Church of Scientology would have long ago eliminated such documents were they in fact fradulent. Search for lawsuits filed by (and against for that matter) Scientology to get an idea of what i mean...or hell just run Litigious through Yahoo Search (it will have two links regarding Scientology in the first page)
Burning Man Virgin

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:23 pm

indeed they do hold nonprofit church status.

In '68 the Fair Game policy was rescinded in name only, read the article at any of the links i provided, or right down below

"HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex Remimeo
HCO Policy Letter of 21 October 1968

CANCELLATION OF FAIR GAME

The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.

This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP.


LRH:ci:cden L. RON HUBBARD
Copyright (c) 1968 Founder
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED"

Again, one could argue that this is all questionable due to the websites providing it...but again if these attacks were in fact made up COS would sue for slander or libel...whichever.

Here is L. Ron ordering Fair Game to be applied to several SPs

"ADVANCED ORGANIZATION
Yacht Royal Scotsman

HCO ETHICS ORDER

To: Those Concerned No. 30 INT

From: The Founder E/O No. 28 INT added to


Subject: RACKET EXPOSED 6 MARCH 1968
(BPI and goes in Auditor)

PETER GOODWIN
JIM STATHIS
PETER KNIGHT
MRS. KNIGHT
NORA GOODWIN
RON FROST
MARGARET FROST
NINA COLLINGWOOD
FREDA GAIMAN
FRANK MANLEY
MARY ANN TAYLOR
GEORGE WATERIDGE
are hereby declared Suppressive Persons for pretending to have and distribute forged and altered "Upper Level Materials" which were of a Research nature and not for distribution.
All Certificates and Awards are cancelled.

1.Having stolen or illegally procured these dangerous materials (at the instigation of a Psychiatrist) these persons did plot to misuse them to cause Insanity and Death.
2.False report for money that they would furnish the real materials.
3.They are declared Enemies of Mankind, the planet and all life.
4.They are fair game.
5.No amnesty may ever cover them.
6.If they ever come to a Qual Division they are to be run on reverse processes.
7.Any Sea Org member contacting any of them is to use Auditing Process R2-45.
8.The Criminal Prosecution Bureau is to find any and all crimes in their pasts and have them brought to court and prison.
9.The Public Distribution of False or Forbidden data is a Suppressive Act and a High Crime.

L.RON HUBBARD
Founder

Once again, this can be found at most if not all the links ive provided, certainly at planetkc. I dont know what exactly goes into the classification "High Crime" in Scientology, or exactly what The Criminal Prosecution Bureau is (beyond the obvious) Nor do i know what Qual is or what Auditing Process r2-45 is. All i know of "Ethics" is that Tom Cruise wont hesitate to execute ethics on people, whatever the hell that means. And Sea Org is their military arm. They sign a billion year contract by the way. Incidentally it was created the same year the Fair Game policy was created.
Burning Man Virgin

Toolmaker
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:44 pm

Post by Toolmaker » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:07 am

Mr.MaskedDude wrote:damn, thats a new level of psychosis from $. How'd they know it was you that helped your friend get out?
They showed up at his place while we were there. I would not let them have access to communicate with him so they waited somewhere and snagged my tag # when I left. They tend to be a real pushy sort, really into touching and grabbing people by the hand or forearm. This must be standard practice for them to get in your face very aggressively and be all grabby. I have seen other accounts on youtube of the same attitude towards SPs (non-scientologists). Even Tom Cruise got all grabby with the bloke that squirted him with the fake mic.. remeber that national news story way back. Back when I saw it I didn't connect that shit until seeing and experiencing the same type of shit. The dude that dropped by to find out why my buddy wasn't returning calls actually tried to push his way into the place. When I pushed him out the door he accused me off assault and said I had pushed him violently and while he was concerned for his friend. Can you believe that shit, his friend.. who he helped destroy financially. Anyways I digress.. their insanity while dealing with other folks is WELL DOCUMENTED. Not just on youtube either.. check criminal cases and whatnot.. its public information.
dana wrote:Toolmaker, that is some totally wierd-ass shit! So I take it SP and Fairgame refers to the designated target, and the act of harrassment of "enemies of the church"?

I suppose it needs to be asked. How do we know your story is true?
(not saying it isn't, just that this is the internet and enough people have thought I might be bullshitting on some of my posts.)

This is making devil's advocacy more difficult, but I have to point out this re. paying for the information. You generally always have to pay something to go to most technical lectures, to get books or tapes. I belong to a group which some on the eplaya would certainly think of as a cult and I definitely pay for the information. But it doesn't seem exhorbitant. ($275 for a weekend, about $30 for a 3 hour tape). I've paid out a lot of money over the years but it feels very worth every penny.
So really, how much are people paying for what amount of value?
Now that we have 2 scientologists responding to the thread, I'm curious if either of you would care to lay out with some detail the exact ways that scientology has made your life better - specifics.
Also I'm curious whether either of you have done any "comparison shopping" - carefully considering what you wanted to get out of it and looked around to see if there was another venue which could provide what you seek.
A final question addresses some of the criticism being launched. sort of two part. So how much is critical thinking, skepticism, circumspection actually being encouraged or expanded upon as a useful vantage point? What would happen if you were hanging with fellow scientologists and you started ripping on various aspects of the program that you didn't like and might want to change - ie. is dissention really repressed? (even if unspoken, inferred.)

eager to hear your replies.
An SP is plainly someone who does not believe in scientology. There is no pre-requisite of interaction with scientologists or ex-scis. As far as whether or not my current RSD/CRPS and disability are from the car running over the foot.. well I have made it well known but never told the gory details.. I try not to air too much dirty laundry online but since its pertinent to this thread and my feelings toward the cult it had to be hung out to dry. I had went to a really good doc earlier today, this one is willing to handle the many foot issues I have. The RSD basically comes and goes but when it hits me it takes me out for weeks at a time barely able to walk even short distances much less standing for any length of time. The Seismoid bone problem cant be operated because of the RSD.. this bone issue keeps me from walking for long periods of time AND lighting anything of any sort of weight. The neuropathic pain can bring tears to my eyes even though I tend to be fairly tolerant of pain. Aside from having to change my "official" address to a PO Box and essentially "hide" where I reside and my disablility checks I have no proof. I can assure you though we can barely make ends meet with this reduced income of mine and constant co-pays to specialists many who don't want to have anything to do with internal injuries such as mine. The new doc is about 45mins away and works in a teaching hospital so at least I am finally getting decent care. The hoops I had to jump through though.. what a nightmare at times. Every expensive test was a street fight to get done.. MRI, bone scan, neuro tests etc etc. Anyway I digress again.. you closed with the price of Co$.. something like 1/4 million to go all the way and live forever and never get sick again. I cannot agree on the price of being healthy.. its a con.. a darn good one.. but still just a con job NOT a religion regardless of govt. status. Even L Ron himself said it wasn't a religion. You closed with mention of dissent being oppressed.. how about this example.. you are told you have to re-purchase previous level courses and do them over. If you really make a stink you get carted off on a boat as slave labor for SeaOrg where maritime law prevails. Some are never seen again. Check the net for Scientology Slavery or a variant and I'm sure you will find the ex-sci interviews.


Feb 10th.. I can't wait to go out there with my signage and wheelchair. Foot is in OK mode this week.. hopefully evil foot will stay quiet. As long as I stay off it I should be able to make the protest and pass out flyers.
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

User avatar
Ugly Dougly
Posts: 17612
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Burning Since: 1996
Location: เชียงใหม่

Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:48 am

Geez, why can't they base their cult off of solid facts like the other religions?

roxxi
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:26 pm

Post by roxxi » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:24 pm

Let's see. I'll try not to ramble too much.

When I was 16 is when I bought my first book by L.Ron Hubbard. That was 1977 and it was called "Self - Analysis".

Being the typical teenager I was having trouble with parents, siblings, teachers and school and why oh why could I not talk to that cute guy in Biology class.

At my first job, my boss was this really cool guy. He was always so cheerful and I felt like he actually listened to me and I really liked being around him. I made some comment like "Wow, I wish I could be as cool as you are" and he said he had read some books about Dianetics and Scientology. So I said, I want to read those books.

He took me to the center and I bought Self Anaylsis and started reading it. What I read really made a lot of sense to me and I started understanding more about why I reacted to things (like a knee-jerk reaction), why other people reacted the way they did to certain things. Overall, it made me feel better about school and my parents and family.

A few years later, I bought Dianetics and read that. That gave me a more in depth look at the mind. How things that have happened to me in the past can shape how I handle things in the present.

I also did a Basic Communications Course. That really really helped me a lot. Understanding that there is a formula for communication. Its really simple and basic, but for me, it really showed me why I was having trouble with my parents and a few others.

I had been looking for answers for a while. I was raised Catholic and went to church every Sunday, but what I heard there and even reading the Bible, it didn't give me anything that I could apply to improve my relationships, get over being shy, get over being introverted, etc.

I did the Astrology thing, Numerology, any other self help books that I could find at the book store. For me, none of them had the answers that I was looking for.

The biggest thing that I have gotten from being a Scientologist is realizing that I don't have to depend on anyone else for my happiness. For years I had the idea that I had to have a boyfriend to be truly happy. Like I couldn't be happy if someone else didn't love me, or something like that.

I haven't had much auditing. The majority of the data I have gotten is from books that LRH has written and his lectures that I have listened to. Everything that I've read, I can see how that is real and I can apply it to situations in my life.

As far as hanging out with other Scientologists, and if they have an upset or something with Scientology, I listen to what they have to say. Its ok to communicate. The reasons that someone would have a disagreement can come from a lot of things. I try and help them with their upset, or find some one who can help them.

As a Scientologist I try to improve conditions around me. I offer help and support to the people I know. If someone needs help, I do what I can.

It can be as simple as just listening to the person and letting them unload their worries or upset on me. I will listen and acknowledge them. I have offered them little handbooks that cover what they are worried about. They can read it and maybe get something out of it. If they don't, then they can give the booklet back to me or throw it away. But I do what I can to help others if they want it.

Another example is my brother. He'd been married for about 7 years. Then he told me that his wife was accusing him of cheating on her. Well, I knew from reading that when someone accuses you of doing something bad, that that person is probably doing that exact thing. If you are pointing the finger at someone else, then of course no one would think that you are doing anything wrong. I gave him a booklet about Marriage and Communication and urged him to read it. A few years later he found out that his wife was cheating on him and had been for a while.

People are all unique and believe different things. That's ok. I'm not interested in trying to convince people to believe something different. Just like I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. That whole golden rule thing. What's true for you, is true for you.

Anyway, that's basically my experience with Scientology. It was worked for me and improved my life for the last 30 years. I live my life by trying to improve things around me, through my job, my communication, my relationships with others.

Its like the ripple effect. The actions I do in life can have a positive or negative effect on others, and so on and so on.

I'm not perfect either. I fuck up, I say things I shouldn't, snap at my family, get mad at stupid things. But afterwards, I can look and see what happened and work on correcting it.

Anyway, I hope I answered your questions Dana :) and didn't ramble too much.

User avatar
Sensei
Posts: 2878
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:56 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Sensei » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:42 pm

roxxi wrote:Well, I knew from reading that when someone accuses you of doing something bad, that that person is probably doing that exact thing.
No offense, but that really, really sounds like a load of crap to me.

User avatar
I am a sock puppet
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:46 am

Post by I am a sock puppet » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:57 pm

sounds like they're practicing pschotherapy without a license

dragonfly Jafe
Posts: 1877
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:08 am
Location: the Oregon Trail

Post by dragonfly Jafe » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:04 pm

Sensei wrote:
roxxi wrote:Well, I knew from reading that when someone accuses you of doing something bad, that that person is probably doing that exact thing.
No offense, but that really, really sounds like a load of crap to me.
...oh, I don't know - I have found that most people tend to focus on things they are most familiar with. If someone is complaining about a certain behavior in others, I often find that they are doing the same thing...or used to (and are now "reformed"). And no, I am not affiliated with CoS in any way!
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

spectabillis
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
Burning Since: 2022
Location: black rock city

Post by spectabillis » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:09 pm

sounds like not seeing the difference between a religion and a self-help collective.

what most scientologists refuse to openly admit is the bonding tendency people have towards those things that empower and elevate them from suffering and psychological issues. i guess you cant expect much of people, not when they never heard of things like soteriology.

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:45 pm

i have no doubt that Scientology's psuedopsychology can help people a lot. I havent actually read any COS books (as i dont want to contribute money to them) but from what i've heard they have a pretty good foundation to help people.

A lot of what they do is basically psychiatry only dont call it that. Had psychiatry not reacted so negatively when LRH introduced his concepts to them the two groups likely would have gotten along just fine and LRH might not have gone to quite the Xenuian lengths he did in his writings.

I agree with you to a degree about people accusing others of something they are guilty of or are just thinking about. Criminal Psychologists often take a look at the person who discovers a murder first. It worries me though that this concept can be so easily mutated into the "What Are Your Crimes?" dogma that Scientology practices.

Roxxi, if you could recommend me a Dianetics/Scientology book to read i might take a look at a used book store in a nearby town next time im down there.
Burning Man Virgin

User avatar
Sensei
Posts: 2878
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:56 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Sensei » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:55 pm

Sensei wrote:
roxxi wrote:Well, I knew from reading that when someone accuses you of doing something bad, that that person is probably doing that exact thing.
No offense, but that really, really sounds like a load of crap to me.
After thinking about it for a bit, I'm quite certain that's a load of crap. Here's a hint: it's the word 'probably'. Do you know of any studies to back this statement up, or is this simply a gross over-generalization, or what we call 'crap'?

User avatar
dana
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 9:39 am
Location: Boulder,Colorado/Northern California

Post by dana » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:16 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:
Sensei wrote:
roxxi wrote:Well, I knew from reading that when someone accuses you of doing something bad, that that person is probably doing that exact thing.
No offense, but that really, really sounds like a load of crap to me.
...oh, I don't know - I have found that most people tend to focus on things they are most familiar with. If someone is complaining about a certain behavior in others, I often find that they are doing the same thing...or used to (and are now "reformed"). And no, I am not affiliated with CoS in any way!
You would probably get in trouble applying it as a "blanket truth", but it does have some substance. Infidelity is generally accompanied with varying degrees of shame and maybe resentment (you make me look elsewhere.) We often tend to create distractions, rationalizations or trivialize our behavior. The wife actually may have been trying to cover over her feelings/actions by accusing him. Or creating the fantasy to justify her own behavior.

Thanks Maskeddude. As late as 1989 the COS was proclaiming Fair Game to be protected religious expression!! Anonymous is starting to make a lot more sense. Does anybody know if the Feds have gotten into looking into these practices, or do they really keep hands off because of "freedom of religion"? [Now my mind is really starting to wander/wonder at what we're doing with freedom of religion. Kids cant drink alcohol til they come of age - should we like-wise shield them from religion until they are mature enough to have a higher level of discernment?]

Roxxi - Well I was kind of hoping for a little more exact details. Was the Basic Communication a scientology course?
Numerology, Astrology and self help books would certainly leave most people lacking satisfaction. Never tried any kind of Cognitive therapy?
Have you encountered or heard of any of this Fair Game stuff?

A definition seems needed. Psychiatry generally refers to drug based treatment. [I share some of what may be COS' criticisms of psychiatry. Its quick and easy, but generally works better when combined with some kind of cognitive therapy - which is psychology. The criticism revolves around the question of whether it actually addresses the underlying emotional/mental issue. As an example, we have been increasiingly aware of the explosive rage that often shows up in people being treated with antidepressant drugs. This is in the medical literature and the news (like many of the kids who shoot up schools are on antidepressants.) I've certainly witnessed it.] It does sound like COS is practicing a kind of confrontational psychotherapy. Thats certainly a significant part of a lot religious practices.

Tool, thanks for the story. I'm sorry this fucked up your life so badly.
Curious... have you tried acupuncture for the RSD? I've been trying to get some feedback on whether people were responding to it. RSD is very hard to treat! B6 400mg day may help with the nueropathy. It gets used a lot with carpal tunnel and so forth. (Ext. release form.)

Mr.MaskedDude
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Mr.MaskedDude » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:25 pm

i dont really like prescription drugs being handed out like candies either. When i was in 5th grade i was told to take Ritalin, i didnt. Turned out my classes were too simple i need Honors classes. Years later a friend (a goofy loud idiot, but funny) got on Ritalin and it zombified him.
Burning Man Virgin

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:15 pm

dana wrote:Does anybody know if the Feds have gotten into looking into these practices, or do they really keep hands off because of "freedom of religion"?
The IRS wimped out on cancelling their tax exempt status, and I believe the typical CoS harrassment was a part of that.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:17 pm

Sensei wrote:
Sensei wrote:
roxxi wrote:Well, I knew from reading that when someone accuses you of doing something bad, that that person is probably doing that exact thing.
No offense, but that really, really sounds like a load of crap to me.
After thinking about it for a bit, I'm quite certain that's a load of crap. Here's a hint: it's the word 'probably'. Do you know of any studies to back this statement up, or is this simply a gross over-generalization, or what we call 'crap'?
In psychiatry they call it "projection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_me ... Mechanisms
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
Kinetik V
Posts: 1652
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:43 am
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Sanctuary West

Post by Kinetik V » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:19 pm

Kinetic V wrote:
mereth wrote:Bullshit. My response is mostly written already and I contacted no one for vetting. I just prefer to write the whole thing in one long stream and go back to edit as my emotions on the subject calm down and I achieve a more objective/amiable frame of mind.
It's called thinking before "speaking".
I might not even post it today. You might have to wait till tomorrow for me to finish my editing.
FYI, the only time I contacted someone in the church in regards to this thread was to find out what the hell Badger was trying to say late on the last page since I didn't have a Scientology dictionary to hand. And even then, I only asked for what the reference was and left it at that.

Edit @ 6:05 pm: Yup, you'll have to wait for tomorrow. Not done yet and signing off for the evening.
The timestamp of that post is:
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject:
We're still waiting..........
Damn......will we be seeing the mother of all responses? Considering how long it's taking this should be pretty good!
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

spectabillis
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
Burning Since: 2022
Location: black rock city

Post by spectabillis » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:31 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:In psychiatry they call it "projection.
loosely, there are several kinds depending on how it manifests, including a type that is actually used by therapists in a beneficial way.

ed: looked but cant find it, its a newer tool of transference thats part of psychodynamic psychotherapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychodyna ... chotherapy where the analyst is test-response acting but with an internal focus on what resonates within them to form an overall model of the patients cognitive structure. its also rather difficult and something only experienced veteran analysts can pull off, and its not fast paced like most psychodynamic therapy.

spectabillis
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
Burning Since: 2022
Location: black rock city

Post by spectabillis » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:53 pm

dana wrote:Anonymous is starting to make a lot more sense.
heh... just a quick fyi, but the vast majority of anonymous are pubescent teens just looking to have some fun, yet even a good portion of those who associate with anon are a bit disgusted with themselves.

Jew Boy
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:41 pm

Post by Jew Boy » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:57 pm

Dude, you are like so wicked smart.
For this I left Poland?

Toolmaker
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:44 pm

Post by Toolmaker » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:23 pm

Dana: I haven't tried B6 but blueberries have been kinda helpful along with marijuana. I am supoosed to be getting some sort of spinal injection next week to confirm RSD, some sort of nerve blockers or someshit. If it gets rid of the pain than it IS RSD. If the shot doesn't work than its something else thats fixable.

Back on topic.. Spec is right about Anon. While Anon is not really an organized group it has drawn alot of bored teens and ex-scis. I met up with some folks today and was not really impressed. Than again, strength in numbers is good so as long as they follow the advice at the protest I am OK with the teenies. Our main goal here in FL is to try to get some sort of justice or acknowledgement of guilt about the MacPhearson case. Scientology really needs to stop practicing medicine without a license. They need to stop this mantra that everyone who accuses them of something criminal MUST be a criminal themselves. This psycobabble bullshit is just gettin out of hand.

As far as getting justice for what happened to me, I have been getting that myself. I put a dollar store cable lock on the rim of a car with the same driver as the one that struck me today. It was really funny watching them drive away with the lock beatin the shit out of the car. THANKS ANONYNOUS ANON PERSON! While it may not have evened things up it sure felt good to even the score a little. Its just too bad that putting them in a wheelchair like me would be a felony and I am not willing to go as far as Scientologists are. Unlike Scientologists I do NOT believe it is OK to lie all the time in order to get what you want. But in the defense of Co$ the lying thing seems to be common amongst everyone these days.
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

User avatar
Badger
Posts: 3322
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Badger » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:55 pm

Roxxi, if you could recommend me a Dianetics/Scientology book to read i might take a look at a used book store in a nearby town next time im down there.
The Scientology stuff is vague and watered down until they hook you paying the big bucks.

The Dianetcs in general is poorly written science fiction which is obvious to the reader almost immediately.

Now, if you want some recommendation on bad science fiction books at price substantially below what the Scientology cultists are shilling for

Start with these:

Image

Image

NOTE: with or without the Martin Landau cover it's BAD.

Image

Image
Desert dogs drink deep.

Post Reply

Return to “Open Discussion”