This is for all threads to goto about www.stopburningman.org

[allanon2]

it was written by jonathan


this is cut and apsted from the email from michael michael and a repsonse.

regards,
stopbmorg@h...
http://www.stopburningman.org

Not Ed. Not Rex. Not Rodney, and not Jeff. I'm Jonathan. Nyah.



this further shows me how one sided many people are here.
will any one listen with a open mind?

did anyone notice how it seems, if you read his rebuttal to michael michael, that allanon2 took a crash course in english between that post and previous ones. He sure is a quick study!

and yes i wear socks
two of them right now.

[Tancorix]

and yes i wear socks
two of them right now.

Then who is Allanon03 that registered last night?
Until that question is answered I consider that ID defacto proof that you are playing the sock puppet game with us and are nothing more than a hypocrite.

Go search the memberlist in ascending order, #72 is Allanon03. Let's see you weasel your way out of this one.

[DE FACTO]

OK I'll byte,

allanon2, you seem to go way back. please enlighten me and let me know who you are.

you already stated the fact about cacophony and all and brought Michael Michael out of the wood work.

I was there too. who are you and be more specific about what your true goal is because I have to admit, I dont understand either.

I think it would be a good idea if Badger and III have input also.

these issues seem like they are not going to go away unless there is some better understanding and a conclusion.

IMHO of course. no disrespect to anyone. I just want this stuff to be yesteryear and get on with the true purpose of BM which is fun.

I dont see this getting to be fun.

[allanon2]

tancorix you are smarter than that

i have no clue who allanon03 is?
at least i don't think it was me

and yes i wear socks
two of them right now.

Then who is Allanon03 that registered last night?
Until that question is answered I consider that ID defacto proof that you are playing the sock puppet game with us and are nothing more than a hypocrite.

Go search the memberlist in ascending order, #72 is Allanon03. Let's see you weasel your way out of this one.

[allanon2]

if so i was the one who put them on from 1989 tell 1993. Under the rotunda and by the shore house.
the easter things at golden gate park?
I also ran the bbs for the cacophony soctiety ffrom 1990-1993 or so. maybe it was 1992

remember me? i am horrible with names.

OK I'll byte,

allanon2, you seem to go way back. please enlighten me and let me know who you are.

you already stated the fact about cacophony and all and brought Michael Michael out of the wood work.

I was there too. who are you and be more specific about what your true goal is because I have to admit, I dont understand either.

I think it would be a good idea if Badger and III have input also.

these issues seem like they are not going to go away unless there is some better understanding and a conclusion.

IMHO of course. no disrespect to anyone. I just want this stuff to be yesteryear and get on with the true purpose of BM which is fun.

I dont see this getting to be fun.

[Badger]

I think it would be a good idea if Badger and III have input also.

Nope. I'm disengaging from further public comment for a while at least. I'm taking to heart the idea that any further discussion is pointless and further attemptes at engagement will remain fruitless. The folks in question have spoken volumes with their silence in answering specific questions tossed to them by other readers of this board. I don't expect this to change. Rather, as I might have mentioned in the past, you can expect further dancing around the issues while the fuck-o's continue practicing their subtle art of evasion while tossing shit from their sandbox.

As for me, I'll be cooking.

Cooking something good. You'll know when it's being served.

Promise.

[DE FACTO]

I think it would be a good idea if Badger and III have input also.

Nope. I'm disengaging from further public comment for a while at least. I'm taking to heart the idea that any further discussion is pointless and further attemptes at engagement will remain fruitless. The folks in question have spoken volumes with their silence in answering specific questions tossed to them by other readers of this board. I don't expect this to change. Rather, as I might have mentioned in the past, you can expect further dancing around the issues while the fuck-o's continue practicing their subtle art of evasion while tossing shit from their sandbox.

As for me, I'll be cooking.

Cooking something good. You'll know when it's being served.

Promise.

Just so you know, I understand.

[Zane5100]

i was at the lake bed before you guys. i think the first time was 1987 or something. (i was 17) I also have gone many times since. I dont like seeing what is happening to the lake bed


and 2 i was around in the very begining of Burning man and I was involved in cacophony when we help decide to move the evnt to Black rock desert. Back then it had no lies and now all i see is propaganda and half truths given to its masses by BMORG.

...and you're just getting around to dealing with this issue now?

Why the delay--or was there something more important going on?

[Chai Guy]

and 2 i was around in the very begining of Burning man and I was involved in cacophony when we help decide to move the evnt to Black rock desert. Back then it had no lies and now all i see is propaganda and half truths given to its masses by BMORG

.


And now we're getting closer to what's really going on here, now that Larry and Co. have parlayed this little counter culture gathering into a profitable little business maybe you had wished you stayed on longer? Or maybe you felt like this was (in part at least) your baby and it was taken out from under you?

You obviously have a lot of resentment towards Larry and Maid Marion (not unlike another person we had posting here recently, you may know him, you conveniently piggy backed on to some of his threads when you first appeared here).

and you're just getting around to dealing with this issue now?

Why the delay--or was there something more important going on?

Exactly Zane, it's more than a little suspicious, so why not come out with the whole story, in the interest of full disclosure, it might help us to see where exactly you are coming from?

[DE FACTO]

and you're just getting around to dealing with this issue now?

Why the delay--or was there something more important going on?

Exactly Zane, it's more than a little suspicious, so why not come out with the whole story, in the interest of full disclosure, it might help us to see where exactly you are coming from?

I have to agree with Chai Guy and Zane.
Also starting to agree with Badger since you have'nt answered my last message either.

[allanon2]

just nevermind
you i give up trying to explain things

[DE FACTO]

allanon2,

your post is too confusing.

[Chai Guy]

i love it when people try to understand thigns they have no clue about.

Enlighten us then.

[aforceforgood]

PLEASE stop feeding the troll!

That is all.

Thank you.

[Zane5100]

So is now a good time to bring up chicken fucking so we can kill the asinine thread once and for all?

[Rob the Wop]

How many frat boys does it take to screw in a light bulb?

What, are you kidding? Frat boys never get laid, they just say they did.

[DE FACTO]

well one thing is for sure.

whenever people had something to say to me weather it was good or bad or PM'd me good and nasty messages I had enough balls to answer each and everyone of them.

call me feeding the troll,

I call it telling it like it is. seems like someone has'nt the backbone to back up thier shit. (to put it nicely.)


sounds like a George W. Bush.

[rodent]

So is now a good time to bring up chicken fucking so we can kill the asinine thread once and for all?

Here, I'll officially kill the thread...

Hitler, Larry Harvey and his Nazi SS Marion are forcing their false propaganda on us all.



According to Godwin's Law, this thread is offically dead.

"One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is "if you mention Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended whatever discussion you were taking part in". "

Don't worry, the SBM folks have tried to build a tower on a pile of sand. It won't stand for long.

"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. And that one sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Son, the strongest castle in all of England."
-Monty Python and the Holy Grail
---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

[THE ORIGINAL DIGIMAN]

ok,

this thread is now officially dead because I say so.

I have seen it arrive to the other side where I am.


It is now done.

[Last Real Burner]

You have reached the end of the Internet.

Please turn you computer off and go do something else.



Internet Management Corp.

[rogue agent]

I'm all for not feeding the trolls. But these guys aren't just trolls. They're organizing a campaign to hurt Burning Man, and expending somewhat significant resources ($800 at least) to that end. That's enough to show this isn't a casual prank, they mean to inflict harm on the LLC and the event. The whole environmental issue is just the weapon they've chosen to use because that's where they perceive vulnerabilities they think they can exploit. As an issue it's just a smokescreen, a diversion; as long as they can keep the battle focused on arguing points about environmental impact, we're fighting on ground they've chosen.

This is not going away just by shutting up about it, & I'm not willing to just let the LLC handle the whole thing. Now I'm also not about to go off on some vigilante justice thing; but I am interested in getting involved in a counter-campaign to do what I can to defend Burning Man from this attack. Exactly what that involves, I'm not sure. But I don't want to just sit on my hands & hope it all turns out for the best.

RA

[Rob the Wop]

things are in the making.

be still on the front line.

anything can be ammo, let the pros do their job.

and before you ask- it's not me, though I have great faith in those involved
I have enough bs with job re-orgs, impending projects, night classes, and caco crap in my spare time.

[aforceforgood]

Being held in cyberspace. PM anyone you think appropriate with the ways in which you'd like to help. I was about to list a couple of ways you could help, but that would be like telling the stopbm clowns what our strategy is- and they've learned enough from our ridicule.

They even rewrote their original website from the childish, petty joke it once was when we pointed out it's weaknesses.

So let's not tip our hands any more- let's handle this 21st century style; a nonlocalized, undirected barrage of truth discrediting their lies from every direction.

They'll never know what hit 'em.

[Bob]

I just finished off this entire thread in one big gelatinous swallow... you guys oughtta cut down on the garlic, you know... anyhow, I'm sure ya'll were wondering what I thought...

Brilliant! A small handful of disgruntled twits don't cotton to seeing serpentine dunes and other such phantom gremlins from the tinted windows of their SUVs. They blame Burning Man, based on four whole years of anecdotal pseudo-data. Smells like the Sierra Club.

The thing is -- if you wanted to keep weekend warriors (eg our Neon-eschewing friends) off the fucking playa, you'd have to be in favor of billions and billions of meter-high dunes marching en echelon from the Texaco station to the Quinn River.

Tell USA Today they can quote me on that.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004- ... gman_x.htm

01/30/2004 - Updated 08:59:49 AM ET
Quick question results
The Burning Man festival is...
45.28% A great get-together / gathering of the tribes.
22.01% So 1990s it hurts; can't believe they're still holding it.
21.07% A formerly great event, but it sold out years ago.
11.64% A menace to a delicate ecosystem.

[Badger]

So let's not tip our hands any more- let's handle this 21st century style; a nonlocalized, undirected barrage of truth discrediting their lies from every direction.

Exactly. Nothing else is even worth the effort.

[BlueBirdPoof]

So let's not tip our hands any more- let's handle this 21st century style; a nonlocalized, undirected barrage of truth discrediting their lies from every direction.

Exactly. Nothing else is even worth the effort.

Just as well. I've forgotten what I did with that flesh eating bacteria. And that flesh eating bactrian.

[sugarlarry]

I'm not really sure how to approach this.

Unfortunately stopburningman.org basically declared all out war in that they clearly wish to shut down the event despite what they may say. I mean if this isn't the case they'd have called themselves "cleanupburningman", or "burnresponsibly" or something like that right? I think it's understandable that Burners are upset.

It almost seems absurd really to come after an event like Burning Man. You only have to take a look at the ecological devistation around the globe in complex ecosystems, by people solely motivated by profit to wonder why are these guys picking on us? Yeah I know... it's "your back yard and you are acting locally", but what about the ranchers? What about the mines? What about the military? These guys have a huge impact in the area, but are they unique? There is nothing like Burning Man anywhere in the world. I'd say that Burning Man qualifies as endangered in its own right.

At the very least people come away from Burning Man having experienced values that might help to shift the destructive path North American culture has been following for so long. Surely this is worth consideration in judging the impact it has on the area. Also consider Burner's ablity to alter their behavior. If properly motivated and instructed the vast majority will coninute to strive for greater environmental standards.

The sad thing is that having a useful dialogue becomes more and more unlikely as this situation develops and the camps swap insults.

Let's say that StopBurningMan has a point. What would you guys like to see us do in order for Burning Man to continue to operate in Black Rock to your satisfaction? I'm going to assume that if you don't want to kill the event you would be interested in helping the event become more sustainable.

[allanon2]

Do a true independent EIR on the event its self. Not a EIS.But a full blown EIR.
This is my own opinion and does not necesarily represent the website www.stopburningman.org

and the name was created to get your attention "which it did"
We want people to make their own ideas about the event and not beleive all the information which is often sugar coated and fed to them.

I am not continuing this debate on epliya (many people here have told me personnaly that they want me dead, and that is not a healthy environment for myself to be exposed to, but i feel strong enough about this to continue to broadcast this message.) but felt I needed to address this one question. If you would like to have more of a discussion come on over to the yahoo group.
stopburingman

I'm not really sure how to approach this.

Unfortunately stopburningman.org basically declared all out war in that they clearly wish to shut down the event despite what they may say. I mean if this isn't the case they'd have called themselves "cleanupburningman", or "burnresponsibly" or something like that right? I think it's understandable that Burners are upset.

It almost seems absurd really to come after an event like Burning Man. You only have to take a look at the ecological devistation around the globe in complex ecosystems, by people solely motivated by profit to wonder why are these guys picking on us? Yeah I know... it's "your back yard and you are acting locally", but what about the ranchers? What about the mines? What about the military? These guys have a huge impact in the area, but are they unique? There is nothing like Burning Man anywhere in the world. I'd say that Burning Man qualifies as endangered in its own right.

At the very least people come away from Burning Man having experienced values that might help to shift the destructive path North American culture has been following for so long. Surely this is worth consideration in judging the impact it has on the area. Also consider Burner's ablity to alter their behavior. If properly motivated and instructed the vast majority will coninute to strive for greater environmental standards.

The sad thing is that having a useful dialogue becomes more and more unlikely as this situation develops and the camps swap insults.

Let's say that StopBurningMan has a point. What would you guys like to see us do in order for Burning Man to continue to operate in Black Rock to your satisfaction? I'm going to assume that if you don't want to kill the event you would be interested in helping the event become more sustainable.

[Tancorix]

Fine, go hide on your Yahoo group and bask in your 15 minutes of fame thanks to the media coverage. You know for a fact that if you come back here this group is going to rip apart every "argument" you bring to the table. We ask questions or challenge your position with facts of our own, your group goes running off like a scalded dog.

And if you have the fantasy that your going to parlay this media coverage and temporary interest into a taxpayer funded fishing expedition, you are seriously underestimating your position. The ORG is perfectly capable of defending themselves against a group like StopBM. I'll gladly let them do their thing. But if you propose wasting tax dollars...well that's another story.

[Badger]

Allanon2,

Scroll back a few pages here. There's still an outstanding question that has been collectively put to you and your group. One which you continue to skirt. One which you continue to avoid.

Answer it please.