Erri2000 Endorses Ron Paul for President!

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:05 pm

..oh forgot to mention this....

Home schooling, fails in one way that is so damaging we dont even think about it, my now adult child has brought this to my attention.

Social skills.

Its taken her years to re-group this very IMPORTANT skill.

And I had no idea, I thought I was helping.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:16 pm

pinemom - I have no beef with you. I, too, am a college teacher. I don't make very much money - nor do I do it for the money.

My gripe is that when the system fails - the people have to take up the slack and do it themselves. That's all. And yes, the system is/has failed.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:22 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:
mojo wrote:Remember though that tax dollars = teachers salaries, music and art programs (which are being systematically murdered in public schools due to budget restraints), and school hot meal programs.

I can't count how many times over the past years that I have been before our school board begging them to save the budget for school music programs.
This true, but really now - why do you expect the civil governement to do these things for you? Pay for the lessons yourself. This is not Rome - yet.

It sickens me to see most of the candidates vie for votes with their promises of gifts to the citizenry. I'm going to give you this.... NO, I'm going to give you that... NO, wait... I'm going to give you this way better thing.

Aren't BM people self-reliant? I thought so... maybe I was wrong? uh?

That is one of the more "let them eat cake" comments I have heard for a while.

Do not make the insulting mistake of assuming that I have NOT paid for the lessons or education for my children. In fact, I will gladly compare the expenditures I have made on behalf of my kids' education with anyone. That includes expenditures of volunteer time and energy. I will also be very glad to regale you with an in-depth dissertation of the achievements of my children, largely resulting from their education. In fact, I have two sons currently at UCLA where the cost per child is in excess of $25,000 per year. I am grateful that both are partially funded by scholarships.

I do, however, believe that I also need to be responsible for the quality of the education being provided to other people's children as well as just my own.

It sounds as though you believe that public education is simply a politician's "gift to the citizenry" and not an esssential need in this country. So is it your position that only those children who have parents that can afford to provide a good private education should be well educated?

In terms of your question regarding the supposed "self reliance" of burners, please let me know once you have been one and we will continue the discussion.

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:25 pm

Nor I have beef with you Donna Mtrx...heck I dont even have a beef with beef.

What I guess Im trying to say is that...
this is such a hard subject matter...

We, the poeple, have become the Sockpuppets so to speak, we really have absolutely no control anymore of any President we chose to elect.
They can promise us golden eggs up the wazoo...but what they do in office, is entirely up to the secret political offices.
That really we have been fed so much bullshit over the last 50 yrs, that we really dont know who's in charge.

hahaha It probly all started with Area 51...lets tell the amrican people it was just tests....we went for it, and they sat back and said...
"Can you beleive it? They actually went for it! What else can we make them beleive?" The president... "ANYTHING gentlemen ANYTHING!"

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:33 pm

(Majority of post deleted as having been way too snarky...)

By the way, I managed to figure out that this is not Rome all by myself. It must have been my public education........

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:50 pm

FROM MOJO
It sounds as though you believe that public education is simply a politician's "gift to the citizenry" and not an esssential need in this country. So is it your position that only those children who have parents that can afford to provide a good private education should be well educated?

In terms of your question regarding the supposed "self reliance" of burners, please let me know once you have been one and we will continue the discussion.

If public education isn't a "gift to the citizenry" what is it? The state now takes the county tax dollars that was suppose to go into our local education fund and puts it in the general fund (here in CA) and then doles it out back to the schools. What would you call this?

I am saying this: Education is ultimately the parents resposibility. Study after study shows that if the parents are not involved the student does poorly. The more parent involvement the better the student does. No teacher can overcome a lack luster home life. Do I like this? no. Do I believe the studies? yes. Can I change reality just because I don't like it? no

As far as self-reliant. What the fuck do you know about me? This is another unfounded and unsubstantiated personal attack without foundation because I upset your apple cart. boo hoo... sob sob... I wish you a happy merry fuck you.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:57 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:
FROM MOJO
It sounds as though you believe that public education is simply a politician's "gift to the citizenry" and not an esssential need in this country. So is it your position that only those children who have parents that can afford to provide a good private education should be well educated?

In terms of your question regarding the supposed "self reliance" of burners, please let me know once you have been one and we will continue the discussion.
If public education isn't a "gift to the citizenry" what is it? The state now takes the county tax dollars that was suppose to go into our local education fund and puts it in the general fund (here in CA) and then doles it out back to the schools. What would you call this?

I am saying this: Education is ultimately the parents resposibility. Study after study shows that if the parents are not involved the student does poorly. The more parent involvement the better the student does. No teacher can overcome a lack luster home life. Do I like this? no. Do I believe the studies? yes. Can I change reality just because I don't like it? no

As far as self-reliant. What the fuck do you know about me? This is another unfounded and unsubstantiated personal attack without foundation because I upset your apple cart. boo hoo... sob sob... I wish you a happy merry fuck you.

I assume you were unable to defend your rudeness with anything more intelligent than the above. I will not further trouble you with my humble opinions.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:01 pm

I assume you were unable to defend your rudeness with anything more intelligent than the above. I will not further trouble you with my humble opinions.

Run away..... run away.....

I couldn't have said it better myself. Whip me once - shame on you.... whip me twice - shame on me.

I defend my right to defend myself from rude and obnoxious comments with rude and obnoxious comments back. Get it? Don't start what you can't finish.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:09 pm

Just curious - which comment do you consider to be a personal attack? If it is my suggestion about the self reliance of burners, please re-read the sentence, the subject of which is "burners". Have you ever attended the event?

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:10 pm

[quote="Donna Matrix"]

If public education isn't a "gift to the citizenry" what is it? The state now takes the county tax dollars that was suppose to go into our local education fund and puts it in the general fund (here in CA) and then doles it out back to the schools. What would you call this?

Mandatory, its the law that you go to school and if your parents dont send you, the parents will be arrested. What about those parents who cant afford the materials to homeschool, as you must sign up in the school system to homeschool and that costs $, take a parents income away to keep them home to homeschool, less money for credits(as you now have to by them!)

I am saying this: Education is ultimately the parents resposibility. Study after study shows that if the parents are not involved the student does poorly. The more parent involvement the better the student does. No teacher can overcome a lack luster home life. Do I like this? no. Do I believe the studies? yes. Can I change reality just because I don't like it? no

Oh you dont even want to know how involved in my childrens education I have been and will be...but Im not a PTA mom,haha they wont have me, (kiddin kinda) Im the ultimate no child left behind parent childs advocate, LONG before they had "no child left behind act".
I know the rights and wherefors upside down...
But when you have a LD child its different, and when I say LD (Learning dissability) Its not due to lack of intelligence, 2 weeks before her 11 bday, she was 3 way I.Q. tested, came in at 121.
Her biggest problems were with teachers and admin, who would not follow her IEP.
But saying that me being in her educational life was all it was going to take for her to be a good student is WRONG! Cause I was, to the point that the admin would cringe when they saw me walking down the halls daily!

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:12 pm

Home schooling is the way to go. Public school on a national scale fails miserably, and only serves one purpose. Brainwashing. make no mistake about it, if the government has charge of the schools, and therefore decides which textbooks are appropriate are they not then teaching your kids only what they want them to know? Public school should not extend further than the number of families it takes to fill a school room. And yes I do favor one room school rooms.

That aside let me tell you about my experience with the school systems My kids are all adopted. the oldest three are sibling by birth and were adopted together. The oldest was in third grade, the next was in second grade and the youngest was in kindergarten when we adopted them. Between them they did not know 200 words of English. None them could form a complete sentence, they had no conception of time and did not understand all of the words they did know. They were taken out of their home when the oldest was to start first grade. In the interim they lost command of their native tongue through lack of use. RighT after we adopted them the school year ended and the olders two were passed and advanced to another grade!

WTF?

So when we enrolled them in the new school we carefully explained the situation. The school said they would evaluate the kids and see that they were taken care of. Nothing happened. We had expected them to be dropped back a grade but the school felt it was more important for the kids to stay with their social (age) group. WTF? So we called them on it And they put them in some extra resource classes. So now they were still expected to learn what the other kids were learning in spite of the fact that it was over their heads and now they had the resource classes which taking out of their classrooms so they weren't there for the lessons. And the resource classes turned out to be mostly psycobabble!

We moved. New state, new school same bullshit. so we yanked our kids out of public school and they have been home schooled ever since. Out youngest child has never even seen kindergarten. He is two grades ahead in everything except math. And that only because there are concepts that need to be learned in second and third grade math before going on to fourth grade math. But he is ripping through it like a bat out of hell and will soon be caught up.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:15 pm

pinemom wrote:..oh forgot to mention this....

Home schooling, fails in one way that is so damaging we dont even think about it, my now adult child has brought this to my attention.

Social skills.

Its taken her years to re-group this very IMPORTANT skill.

And I had no idea, I thought I was helping.

This is why I favor one room school houses.

I have more to say on this subject but have to go to work now. Off to the igloo!

I will post more tonight.

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:19 pm

Geez, I'm glad I'm not Ron Paul...................

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:20 pm

Thank you BoxB!
and dont freezy your cute buns off in the igloo!

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:27 pm

Pinemom - you made a huge sacrifice to be sure your child had the best education she could get....and you did it despite a lot of ups and downs. I don't know of many people who could have accomplished as much.

I wouldn't worry so much about the social skills issue - you have your head on straight - she will learn those skills from you and be better for it.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:29 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:
I assume you were unable to defend your rudeness with anything more intelligent than the above. I will not further trouble you with my humble opinions.
Run away..... run away.....

I couldn't have said it better myself. Whip me once - shame on you.... whip me twice - shame on me.

I defend my right to defend myself from rude and obnoxious comments with rude and obnoxious comments back. Get it? Don't start what you can't finish.

donna (and everyone else)

As an teacher and as a Christian you should know that please and thank you, along with every other associated courtesy is the grease upon which all communication and dialog take place. Just because someone else failed to oil the gears does not mean that we should not oil them either.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:34 pm

mojo wrote:Just curious - which comment do you consider to be a personal attack? If it is my suggestion about the self reliance of burners, please re-read the sentence, the subject of which is "burners". Have you ever attended the event?

Well, if you are going to ask me nice like that - I'll answer.

I've gone to BM three times. Last two times as a greeter in greeter camp. (= participant). I've already purchased my ticket for 2008 (4th time going).

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:38 pm

[quote="pinemom"]

Mandatory, its the law that you go to school and if your parents dont send you, the parents will be arrested. What about those parents who cant afford the materials to homeschool, as you must sign up in the school system to homeschool and that costs $, take a parents income away to keep them home to homeschool, less money for credits(as you now have to by them!)
quote]

In California anybody can home school. There is a legal defense team for home schoolers. They have never lost a case. Mandatory attendence laws can not withstand a Constitutional defense. I could cite cases - but why?

Now, if the parents are not doing their duty - this is an entirely different issue.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:43 pm

Box Burner wrote:
Donna Matrix wrote:
I assume you were unable to defend your rudeness with anything more intelligent than the above. I will not further trouble you with my humble opinions.
Run away..... run away.....

I couldn't have said it better myself. Whip me once - shame on you.... whip me twice - shame on me.

I defend my right to defend myself from rude and obnoxious comments with rude and obnoxious comments back. Get it? Don't start what you can't finish.
donna (and everyone else)

As an teacher and as a Christian you should know that please and thank you, along with every other associated courtesy is the grease upon which all communication and dialog take place. Just because someone else failed to oil the gears does not mean that we should not oil them either.

Yes, forgive me for being human....

To err is human.... to forgive divine.....

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:47 pm

Yes... we do all get excited sometimes.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:35 pm

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:36 pm

A friend of mine asked me tonight, â€œShould Ron Paul just quit? I never hear of him on the news so he canâ€™t be doing very well today (Super Tuesday).â€

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:49 pm

wrong thread

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:52 pm

wrong thread

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:28 pm

[quote="Donna Matrix"]A friend of mine asked me tonight, â€œShould Ron Paul just quit? I never hear of him on the news so he canâ€™t be doing very well today (Super Tuesday).â€

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:41 pm

Abortion:

Ron Paul is a GYN/OB doctor and is pro-life. He's delivered over 4000 babies.

But even though - his stand is that the Federal Gov should stay out of it. He believes the states should determine it. So, under his leadership, we would have different laws under different state governments.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:16 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:Abortion:
He's delivered over 4,000!

I can see why the Stork Union hasn't endorsed him

But even though - his stand is that the Federal Gov should stay out of it. He believes the states should determine it. So, under his leadership, we would have different laws under different state governments.

But you said you were for the republic. isn't that being a Federalist!

So a woman now has to drive how many states to do what she feels is right for her!

Wrong party!

I rest my case, your honor!

AIIZ

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:27 pm

Zeus... you don't understand the Constitution - do you?

IN the Constitution there are Federal powers, but any power not given to the Federal Gov are reserved to the States or to the people themselves.

This is the way the Constitution works. Ron Paul is saying that the abortion issue should be decided by the states because the Constitution doesn't give the Federal Gov the power to regulate it. That means the states should regulate it - if they want to. See?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:59 pm

Well,
Ms. Matrix.......
I'm with you........
I also live in northern CA.......

self reliance and responsibility. We parents look out for our kids, with education, or morals, health,etc. It's no one else's job......
we may ask for help, but, it's no ones responsiblity but ours......

I'd like an almost Anarchist society, probably leaning towards Libertarian.

I want to sink or swim, by my own hand.

Don't help me, just stay out of my way.

Don't tell me who to help (by way of taxing me then doling out said tax money to buy votes, and help who you think you want to), just let me do it myself.
I will, and do.

Don't make me reliant on the government for my well being, and, I'll be well.

Don't destroy family and community with programs tailored to making everyone reliant on the government to feed, shelter, cloth, educate, etc, etc.
Let us do it ourselves.
let us rely on our neighbors, and, vice versa. we can then create respect and friendship with the person down the street, or, in our town, etc.
build community.
and, not need the feds to save us......or enslave us......

Let my money stay in my pocket, and, go to where I think a need exists......
Don't tell me I should pay to help one set of people, and not another. Let me decide.

Don't destroy one dictator (or whatever name you want to give a despot) and prop another up, for doing the same thing.

Don't tell me what I can and can't do with my body.
Don't coddle me, though, if I do harm in that same pursuit.

do what the founders wanted with a federal government:
Provide for common defense (defense, yes, that's the word), promote interstate commerce (both rely on an interstate highway system.),
Allow us the right, to Life, Liberty, and the Persuit (no guarantee of success, just no hinderment) of happiness.......

geeze, how did I get going on this?

It's sure nice to be able to have these discussions, though.
Great food for thought.

Thanks to all.

Ygmir

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:10 pm

oh yeah,
where did that 10th amendment go?..........