Burning Man 2008: Revolution

RINGMASTER · Post by **RINGMASTER** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:23 pm

alas, in our quest to offend no one, we offend everyone

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:14 pm

My first year, 2006, I wore a ship on my head for a few days, and got routinely mobbed by cameras. My camp mates and I were almost embarrassed by the scene. I think I had about a fifteen minute shoot at at the waffle one day. Literally, as soon as one group got done, another person would ask, then about fifteen people would start snapping away.

This last year, I had more modest head gear, and don't remember anyone taking my picture, except once, and she asked.

The camera thing is a bit of a rub. I know I wish I had taken more pictures, because I like to look and remember, but then I know being male and possessing a camera out there makes me an instamatic perv. I also understand LCN's position of the exigence a camera brings into a very personal situation. It is not a tough call, though. I think there is a "parade" atmosphere that begs people to photograph. Sort of the way a ladder left standing against a house is an attractive nuisance.

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:08 pm

If you don't want your picture taken, stay in your tent. Or at least, look blah and unimaginative. Mutant Vehicles, art and performance all get their pictures taken. If you turn yourself into human art, then someone is going to want to capture that. If your in a parade, people are going to take pictures. The CT Parade has been complaining for people snapping shots of them. Come on, they're riding bikes to make a statement of "Look at me, I'm proud to be woman". Not much different then the premise of a gay pride parade. People take their pictures too. Maybe if the CT parade said, go ahead, take pics, it might actually take the puritanism attitude toward breasts. Many countries in the world could care less about tits on TV, beaches etc. CT should be held somewhere that has no people to "gawk" so all the participants are safe and comfortable. This is an extreme example but isn't too far off from "Hey, look at us, we have our own parade for all to see us in our topless glory. But don't look or document it please".

If people are so worried about getting their picture taken either be a complete asshole about it or better yet...

Carry a squirtgun and get those cameras wet. Then toss some playa dust on them. If everyone fights like this then every photographer will start asking first.

Until then, don't be interesting. Be dull and blah, where a frat shirt. Stay home. Or just be plain butt ugly.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:33 pm

Amen, Brother Bastard.

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:51 pm

Thanks Chief Dan.

I just realized that that was post #101. Woo hoo. I'm now officially an eplaya junkie!

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:15 pm

Rat Bastard wrote:If you don't want your picture taken, stay in your tent. Or at least, look blah and unimaginative.

Yup, sums up my feelings about as good as can be said

TheFunkHole · Post by **TheFunkHole** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:26 pm

yep, and it's such a snap to do. I had more than one occasion of fashion sneering laid upon me. It just makes my smile brighter. One night I wore a crossing guard reflective tape vest and people were riffing on me for being "Mr. Safety". I liked portraying a playa safety squad nerd, is that so wrong?

Dabbling in super sub-cultures is always fun. It's all about identity symbol accessorizing.

Saki · Post by **Saki** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:20 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
Rat Bastard wrote:If you don't want your picture taken, stay in your tent. Or at least, look blah and unimaginative.
Yup, sums up my feelings about as good as can be said

Do I understand this correctly?
If I want to be heard on radio I should be radio host. If I want to be seen on the TV or in movies I should be an actor. If I want to be photographed in magazines I should be a model. And If I want to be broadcast across the internet I should go to burning man.

Thanks for making this policy so crystal clear fellow burners, I've been in the dark.

RedheadBarbie · Post by **RedheadBarbie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:33 am

I will be attending for the first time this year. Of course I've been dreaming of it for years and finally plunked down the cash and will be eating mac and cheese for the next few months to make it happen. I am originally a painter. I live to paint but due to school and all of those other pesky life situations don't have much time for it. I'm lucky to finish one piece a year.

My partner was born with a camera in his hand. He introduced it to me and I found it to be a great substiture for my lost paint. We now have taken over 300,000 pictures together. We have spent more on gear in one year than I spent on my lifetime of paint. We earn less than $2,000 a year for our photography. We regularly contribute to newspapers and document our community. We regularly photograph concerts and provide the pictures to the bands for free.

I will be taking pictures. And I may not always be able to go ask every person in the range of my shot if they mind. I will respect you if you ask me not to take your picture. I will delete it if I have. I will have cards on me so you can contact me and get any pictures of yourself.

I will be topless or nude as much as possible, and I expect to be photographed while there. It's just a fact, nude or not. I regularly pose as an artist's model. I can't control how they make me look. It is their art, just as photographers control the camera. But then again I can't stop a person from seeing me nude on the playa and drawing their impression of me later.

Photography is an art. It captures the beauty of the moment. It allows you to open up and be who you really are and capture it for that one brief moment, who you are before the next day's worth of activities have altered your personality just a little bit, before you meet that next person to have an impact on you, before you age and mature a little more.

My point is that to restrict one form of art would defeat the purpose of allowing such a great place for open expression. If you are anti-camera ask yourself why, make peace with it, and embrace the art. Or think the way you do and do what you will, close the mind, that's our America, but not the one I dream of.

Damok · Post by **Damok** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:56 am

I really don't understand people on topics such as this. If you are embarrassed of your lifestyle and the fact that you went to burning man, then perhaps you shouldn't go.

As Redheadbarbie stated, we try to get permission first, but at an event of this size, itâ€™s pretty much impossible. So if youâ€™re concerned about it and still feel that you have to go and actually leave your tent, then you should follow Rat Bastards advice and be boring looking, I am much less likely to make you the subject of a picture that wayâ€¦ Oh and donâ€™t stand next to the cool looking people either, you might get caught in the shot. Oh and perhaps you should stay away from cool looking camps too. Oh, and lets not forget the cool looking vehicles, bikes, women, signs, dust, and porta potty's...

Oh hellâ€¦ Just play it safe and stay in your tent.

gaminwench · Post by **gaminwench** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:42 am

I don't think it's the cameras, it is how the photos get used...common courtesy(hah!) would imply that one shouldn't post photos of other folks' naked bodies in a public, media ridden forum without express permission from said naked bodies. I love dressing(or not) the way I want to on the playa - but I hate finding my nakedish self in some guy's public collection of soft porn - going thru BM photos on flickr and seeing myself in some titty collage...how many of those gals gave their permission?
I've actually been yelled at by a 'photographer' who asked permission to shoot, but protested when I covered my nips - is it HIS right to demand my nudity for his photo?
More education for the yahoos? I'm thinkin' they don't want to be educated...

RedheadBarbie · Post by **RedheadBarbie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:04 pm

[quote="gaminwench"]More education for the yahoos? I'm thinkin' they don't want to be educated...[/quote]

That particular type of photog is called a GWC. Guy With Camera. Yes, he's just there to see boobies, because he's never left the 2nd grade (and never felt them for really-real yet). I just ignore them. If I changed my behavior because of them I think it reinforces the taboo/naughty factor for them. My advice for dealing with them is just be a snob, or get a really large boyfriend who belongs to a motorcycle gang. If they are publishing pictures for the purpose of pornography they have to have model releases and 2257 forms from the model and can get in serious trouble with the gov if they don't. The Girls Gone Wild guys have had legal headaches from that. If you see some of yourself send them a cease and desist letter. It's too much headache to bother for me.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:23 pm

Damok wrote:I really don't understand people on topics such as this. If you are embarrassed of your lifestyle and the fact that you went to burning man, then perhaps you shouldn't go.

I think it's less about being embarrassed and more about how that potential photo is viewed out of context... say in a courtroom battle over child custody, for instance...

Or by a boss, at a job you really need, who is looking for a reason to make your life even harder than it already is...

So if you choose to think about how that photo of you might be viewed (or used) by someone 35 years from now, perhaps you should play it safe and just lament the fact that some people can't feel allowed to be truly free, even in Black Rock City.

wonderhope · Post by **wonderhope** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:23 pm

STOP BURNING MAN!!!! STOP VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN!!!!! GO TO WATER WOMAN INSTEAD!!!! YOU ARE ALL SICK TWSITED GREEDY PSUEDO HIPPIES KEEPING IT GOING

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:41 pm

GO TO WATER WOMAN INSTEAD!!!!

OK

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:05 pm

Le Chat is right, the burn has been used to try and discredit parents in custody cases, as if merely attending, even without your children makes you inherently unfit. And it was even used as part of the defence of the rapist last year, as if by merely attending, you were saying you wanted sexual contact with any man you met there. It's all very brave when you don't have anything to lose to say that you don't care who sees, but some people don't have that luxury.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:29 am

someday, a member of the supreme court will have attended Burning Man.

my guess is they'll be naked under the robes....

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:52 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:someday, a member of the supreme court will have attended Burning Man.

my guess is they'll be naked under the robes....

My guess is that they weren't wearing robes and they are not talking about it, but that was the one that was rubbing up against you prior to the burn, yeah you know which one...

gaminwench · Post by **gaminwench** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:21 am

Hey, I remember that creep...

RedheadBarbie · Post by **RedheadBarbie** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:16 pm

[quote="theCryptofishist"]Le Chat is right, the burn has been used to try and discredit parents in custody cases, as if merely attending, even without your children makes you inherently unfit. And it was even used as part of the defence of the rapist last year, as if by merely attending, you were saying you wanted sexual contact with any man you met there. It's all very brave when you don't have anything to lose to say that you don't care who sees, but some people don't have that luxury.[/quote]

I really don't want to get into the courts and all of that mess, but I know that our courts are horrid in some places. The separation of church and state really does not exist, and a judge can at any time impose his screwed view of morality to go against case law in his judgements. The 'good christian' parent wouldn't need pictures. Judges don't care about real proof, just unfounded accusations. Of course I realize this is a broad generalization, just things I've seen happen more than once. I'm not just going to give in. Nudity isn't dirty. It's not that I don't have anything to lose, just feel strongly enough about it.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:50 pm

i usually just wear a mismatched sock, preferably crochet, or something etsy-esque, borrow some sensible walking shoes, and pretend i'm german....

i tell people mein nommen ist Fritz Long........then the url tags dont come up when the lawyers are googling.

RedheadBarbie · Post by **RedheadBarbie** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:53 pm

So you think my idea of gifting handmade penis coozies will go over big?

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:15 pm

RedheadBarbie wrote:So you think my idea of gifting handmade penis coozies will go over big?

ooh OOH, I want one.

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:22 pm

To me, the term "photographer" denotes someone who is making
an effort to use the medium for some sort of artistic endevour.
Most of the complaints about "photographers" are really complaints
about an "asshole with a camera" who does not deserve the descriptive
term of "photographer".

The Hat issues hundreds of media passes each year, so looks like the
camera free Burning Man isn't happening any time soon. Let's be real here. The Hat loves the camera. I AM all in
favor of banning assholes from the event if somebody can work
out the logistics.

On the plus side of the photography issue, every year I see many posts along the lines of (me) (my crew) (my camp) spent so much time on our
(costumes) (art project) (art car) (theme camp), that we didn't get any photos and
would love it if someone who did photograph our (costumes) (art project) (art car) (theme camp) could email us some.

Take a look at the image gallery on the Burning Man website and tell me
if it would be good thing if all those thousands of great photos were not there.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:25 pm

RedheadBarbie wrote:I really don't want to get into the courts and all of that mess, but...

Generally, neither to the people who get dragged into them.

Damok · Post by **Damok** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:46 pm

It's all very brave when you don't have anything to lose to say that you don't care who sees, but some people don't have that luxury.

Actually we all have something to loose!

Believe me, we get the whole child custody thing, been there, done that, and trust me, if opposing council wants to hold it against you for going to BM, they will do it pictures or not and probably make up a much worse story without pictures!

And if your boss is out to get you over something silly like BM, then your doomed dude! Youâ€™re going down sooner or later, so just bail now!

Bottom line, BM is not a pagan, human sacrificial orgy. Its Art and freedom of expression. If youâ€™re worried about it, keep vanilla. Donâ€™t get drunk/stoned and run around naked like a loon and should you show up in someoneâ€™s pictures, itâ€™s ok.

Barbie and my selfâ€™s thing about this whole topic, is that this is Freedom of Speech, First amendment stuff here. And if more Americans would stand up and say, â€œThereâ€™s nothing wrong with doing this, we are adults and we are not hurting anyone by doing itâ€

Damok · Post by **Damok** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:58 pm

Ya we know all about the GWC's. These people really piss us off, as we really do try to be fair about our photography. If someone doesn't want thier picture taken we won't do it, and we are professionals, we don't generally get involved in the picture, and are pretty much invisable when we shoot. So we aren't totally militant about the whole subject.

On the flip side, Anyone with a camp who wants lots of Photo's done, drop us a note on http://ganjachicken.kicks-ass.net/ and let us know what camp. We will be happy to swing by and get lots of photo's for you, and you may even be able to get a free Penis coozy from Barbie out of it. :D

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:43 pm

Gizmo wrote: Take a look at the image gallery on the Burning Man website and tell me
if it would be good thing if all those thousands of great photos were not there.

I'd not argue against that, and in fact agree with the position (if curious, please see my post on the previous page of the thread). My major idea is that it is a two way street with responsibility on both parties to respect the other. Unfortunately this is sort of a lop-sided situation because too many people don't care about how their action may affect, or be considered by, the person that is the object in the gaze of their lens. The inconsiderate "GWC's" then, frustrating as it may be, make anyone with a camera potentially suspect in some peopleâ€™s eyes.

For example:

I, by shear force of the ubiquitous prevalence of cameras, must respect the rights of a photographer to take photos. Iâ€™m not saying I wouldnâ€™t respect this right to use photography as self-expression, but more that if I did disagree with it at some point, I ultimately wouldnâ€™t have a choice in the matter since they could take the photo anyway and I might never even know it. On the flip side, however, there is no way to insure that the person with the camera will respect my rightsâ€¦ only their good graces and empathy insure that.

Because of this situation, some people feel forced to curtail their own forms of expression, due to others desires of expressing themselves through photography. (And by the way, thank you Damok, for respecting those you photograph. If only speaking fr myself, I appreciate it).

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:19 pm

i think free penis cozies would be a HUGE hit....

as long as they are organic hemp, woven by fair trade honduran exchange students who are offsetting their eco-footprint by working in the nude.

http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=5541784

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:26 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i think free penis cozies would be a HUGE hit....

as long as they are organic hemp, woven by fair trade honduran exchange students who are offsetting their eco-footprint by working in the nude.

http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=5541784

Hemp is green and all - but kinda scratchy... How about a little cotton one for me? Angora looks cool - but too dressy for me.

Burning Man 2008: Revolution

Photos

Amen

Re: Burning Man 2008: Revolution

stop burning man