Pre-Made Structures from Hardware Store

terdbird · Post by **terdbird** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:28 pm

I havent heard anyone talking about the pre-made(assembly required) structures for sale at hardware stores.. I have one of these in my back yard right now, and was thinking of bringing it to the playa.. any thoughts?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=40544

thinking of extending the sides of it down, so it will look like a big bump.. maybe more wind tolerant... 2.5' rebar stakes a must... probably 5 on each side... climbing rope to secure it...

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:45 pm

Set up one of thos two years ago. Two wweks after the 4th of July. Winds came out of the southwest gusts of *90* mph. Flattened the thing in less than 3 minutes.

NOTHING (save the tarp) was salvaged. Total waste of $$.

Granted, on a calm day they rock but my experience is that one should plan for the ugliest weather you can think of.

<crickets chirping>

terdbird · Post by **terdbird** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:46 pm

hmm... what if i rebuilt the frame with sturdier metal.. or maybe PVC? :\ trying to think ahead..

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:48 am

I’m planning on using a similar (only in concept) structure to go over my truck. I would think that if you bought the raw materials (including a heavy tarp that would go all the way to the ground on each side) that you could build the frame out of 3/4" Schedule 40 black iron pipe and still have less in it than the $150 for the cheapo car cover. Anchor that securely to the playa in opposing directions. Whenever bracing something, think “forces in opposition” and “triangles”. This of course is assuming that you have the ability to work with metal (welding skills, tools, etc) and that physics on the playa are not terribly skewed from physics in the rest of the universe. And from what I've gathered so far... PVC=BAD in most cases.

You could design it so that it could be knocked down/setup quick and use it year after year. I would suggest setting up lengthwise with the winds. Oh... and if you go the BI pipe route, ask your local steelyard for “untested” (sometimes called reject or structural grade) pipe. If you just ask for Sch 40, you’ll probably get pressure tested for plumbing (tested = more $$$). Clue: Pressure rated pipe is threaded on each end... even in 20' sections, is usually printed along its length. Pipe is always measured by ID, Tubing is always measure by OD (3/4" pipe = +/-1-1/16" OD).

And while we’re on the topic... I’m constructing a 1" square tubing frame to mount on top my truck bed. Over this will be stretched and buttoned, a canvas camper top (that I’m cutting out/sewing up from an appropriate sized tarp). Picture the lines of these newer sleek fiberglass toppers, only kinda’ deuce-n-half, military canvas cover looking. It will be treated on all cloth and seams with water proofer. It is designed to keep fine dust infiltration to a minimum. I’m not going to say it’ll be “Playa Proof”, because I believe that to invite disaster... and shame... lots and lots of shame. But it should be pretty tight.

Now... set up at camp, on top of this cover, will be a (most likely wood)skeleton frame, +/- 12" high, that will extend from the front of the canvas topper, roughly 10' past the back of the truck. Over this frame will be draped a tarp (silver maybe?? Canvas maybe? haven’t decided) reaching almost to the ground (but not quite, for air movement) and anchored with the sidewalls at angles, not perpendicular (triangles... triangles). My intention for this is a sun shield over the canvas topper and a roughly 8' X 10' covered porch, if you will, at the back of the truck (open on ends so air can pass). If... scratch that... WHEN a dust storm hits, I could, if I so desire, bail into the topper and batten down the hatches until it passes.

Structurally, I’m confidant it will do fine. My moto is “If it can be built, it can be overbuilt”. My concern is with sun shade and heat build up. Anybody out there with experience with something similar? I present this to you for your critique and suggestions.

Matt

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:33 am

Badger wrote:Set up one of thos two years ago. Two wweks after the 4th of July. Winds came out of the southwest gusts of *90* mph. Flattened the thing in less than 3 minutes.

NOTHING (save the tarp) was salvaged. Total waste of $$.

Granted, on a calm day they rock but my experience is that one should plan for the ugliest weather you can think of.

<crickets chirping>

Here's a pic of that exact structure and the damage the storm did to it. With thicker pipe and better tethering, it might have survived.
http://www.tribe.net/tribe/servlet/temp ... 6f05f24674
---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

terdbird · Post by **terdbird** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:56 pm

the structure in that photo is made of pvc, it looks like... while mine is not indestructable, it is made out of a heavier aluminum based metal, and hopefully with the way im planning on securing it, it will withstand pretty high winds without me needing to worry too much....

terdbird · Post by **terdbird** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:59 pm

LCN: That buttoning method you described is good. do they just screw into the metal, or do you weld them? i was thinking of making a frame to go on my pickup bed, then putting a cover on it when i get there, for a little extra "private" space if needed...

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:29 pm

[quote="terdbird"]the structure in that photo is made of pvc, it looks like... quote]

nope, aluminum poles. Right out of the box.

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:30 am

For the regular price of the unit at Harbor Freight, you can go to Costco and get a canopy with:

1) Thicker pipe poles,

2) All four sides in addition to the roof,

3) Stronger hardware.

I have a friend who, a few years ago, brought his Costco canopy and got it all set up. It was a gentle day windwise, so they forestalled securing it down.

Mistake (maybe?).

The wind came by, gently picked the completely-built but unsecured canopy up, and proceeded to roll it across the Playa with my friend and his campmates in hot pursuit. They chased it for a solid half-mile before catching it. According to my friend, the canopy was intact and undamaged and the five of them just carried it back to camp and locked it down with guylines. The year before ('99, the year of terrible winds), I was camped next to the Amazing Maze Camp and they had the canopy. They invited us over for lunch and a work break and we sat inside that canopy, with its still air, while a ninety-mph whiteout raged around us.

I tell these stories as testament to the durability and Playa-readiness of the Costco canopy. Go get one, the price is great for what you get, don't bother with the cheapizoid knock-offs.

terdbird · Post by **terdbird** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:52 am

rodent: how did you secure it? im trying to foretell any problems i may have... was planning on a line/stake at every junction on both sides, and one on each end... 12 in total

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:01 am

Terdbird...

I'm getting the buttons from a local upholstery supply shop. You can purchase buttons with a machine screw stud integrated into them, but they are expensive. My plan so far is to purchase just the basic "male" snaps (I think they have a hole for riveting to fabric already punched through) and attaching them via a screw with a head lower than the rim of the snap. After locating and marking their placement on the metal frame (11 ga Tubing +/- .125" thick wall), I'm going to drill and tap a machine screw thread into said frame (maybe 10-32???... ). Be warned... this is all still theoretical since I do not yet have the buttons in hand. Oh... I also thought about just using self drill/tap sheet metal screws, but I've had those fail on other projects of this type. I've found that investing the time to tap a bunch of holes makes the difference in it lasting 1 year or 10.

As far as the "female" snaps go... they just rivet to the fabric with an inexpensive hand hammered punch/die tool. You can purchase a really nice hand press that is quick, accurate and easy... but they are $100+. The shop you acquire the buttons from may let you borrow one if they have it... doesn't hurt to ask!!

You'll have to weigh your own options...

And for anchoring a canopy... the more the merrier!!

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:28 am

terdbird wrote:rodent: how did you secure it? im trying to foretell any problems i may have... was planning on a line/stake at every junction on both sides, and one on each end... 12 in total

You'd have to ask Badger, the shade structure was not mine and I don't recall how it was tethered down.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:36 am

If the shade structure we are talking about is a car port. I have taken one for the last three years. Just tie at each post down to the ground at 45º of the post. For added wind resistance tie the corners at three points. Again at 45º from the post. Make sure you drive your stakes at an opposing 45º. The down side is the tarp holds the heat. About 10º hoter in side than out in the shade of the structure it's self. It's ok if (with no side walls) your sitting down. When you stand up you can boil your brains. I'm going with garden screening this year.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:09 am

Forgot to mention the feet. Spike the feet with a tent stake. The ones that look like a large nail. one at each foot. Again at 45º of the post. For a little added safety I ran a static(small woven rope) line from the cover down to each of these stakes.

PurpleKoosh · Post by **PurpleKoosh** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:07 pm

The shade structure the folks at Black Rock Hardware were selling kicked serious ass and cost a little more than half the non-sale price of the one you've linked to. (And when they found out my boyfriend was ESD, they knocked the price down still further....)

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:21 pm

diane o'thirst,

Is this the one from Costco you are talking about? Please see link -

http://www.costco.com/frameset.asp?trg= ... g=&NavTop=

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:27 am

I actually saw people with those on the playa- some Hushville neighbors had one, and once we guyed it down HEAVILY it behaved okay....they are, however, CRAP. The carports with the thickwalled 2" tubing are vastly better, and once secured will stand against mighty winds or LOTS of snow, as I just discovered this week. In order to tie down one of those crummy little picnic shelters enough to prevent it from becoming a kite you'd probably break it in the process.....

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:08 am

Ya I am planning on bringing a structure like the carport mentioned accept it is 18'x20'. Mine is made with 1 3/8" chain link fence galvanized steel top rail pipe. I am also going to add those plastic zip ties (cops use them sometimes as handcuffs) to reinforce the ball bungee cords that conect the tarp to the pipe. After all that I am going to anchor it all down with 4 lines and rebar as well as figure some way of anchoring it to my truck. I have seen these type of canopies all over my campus and they seem really sturdy (the steel will not bend most likely) if the proper measures are taken to make them playa proof. The one with the white pipes just didnt look as sturdy as mine. With a little luck, hopefully, mine will survive.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:20 am

djaded, You wont have any trouble with it. Don't attach it to you truck. It will rud the paint off in spots. Make sure you nail the feet down. These thing like to dance across the playa no matter how well you tie the top. That again is where I lost paint. The legs walked up against the van.

djaded · Post by **djaded** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:36 am

Ya I thought about that. I was going to get some of the foam insulation sleeeves that you wrap around pvc pipes and put them around the legs to prevent paint damage as well as a measure against night time concusions (If I get one more I cant play ball anymore unless I want to wear a cool helmet). Do you think that would work?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:58 am

I'd put a cotten rug over the fome at contact points. If I catch you walking around without your helmet, I'm telling. mommm

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:57 am

Wouldn't go anywhere if you park your truck on top of it.

Or add long guy lines and a windbreak (eg a truck) on the windward side.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:56 am

..or include your vehicle in the structure, if you've got a roof rack- Lash or otherwise fasten 2x4's, PVC pipe or whatever to the rack and anchor to the ground. A two-ton anchor'll hold in a 90 MPH gust.... (of course, you won't be making any quick getaways, either.....)

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:43 am

That is what I was thinking of doing, so we wouldn't lose our structure. I have no idea because I'm new, but what do you think we would need to build this? I was thinking about ropes staked into the ground to hold the tarp down, attaching the tarp to our luggage rack on top of our van. then we could attach two or three walls. Should we get something that wind can pass through? Or just regular tarps? Underneath we are going to lay down some astroturf. I wish I could find a bunch of plastic daisies... What am I talking about? I can find those all day long at the dollar store. Oh, my gears are turning now!

III · Post by **III** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:10 am

>>two-ton anchor'll hold in a 90 MPH gust

if you use your car as an anchor (rather than as an integral part of the shade structure) remember to unfasten it before you take off midweek to go pick someone up at the airport.

(it was my second year - i was still young and stupid, though the shade structure happily survived the incident.)

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:06 am

goodvibe wrote:Should we get something that wind can pass through? Or just regular tarps?

Generally speaking, it's probably better to use two or three smaller, overlapped tarps than one big one, unless you're making an openended shelter that the wind can plow right through...Ideally, wind gusts should be able to flow around and through instead of catching your shelter like a sail. Shadecloth and other open-weave materials won't give you protection from the dust, which is everpresent, so you may want to design your encampment with thoughts of how much actual shelter you want in case of dust or rain and how much just shade. Button it up too tight like we did last year and you get a dark, airless, dust-free oven. Too loose and you get dusty, wet and fried. Whatever you decide, TEST IT.

scotto · Post by **scotto** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:42 am

Check out TarpMan...

http://www.tarpman.bigstep.com/

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:50 am

:o I can't believe it! They've thought of almost everything. What kind of structure did you make?

billvaxman · Post by **billvaxman** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:45 pm

So.. Scotto... That's where you got that big main tent hum...
Very cool.

Pre-Made Structures from Hardware Store

Pre-Made Structures from Hardware Store

yahoo!

Re: yahoo!

Playa Shade Structures

WOW!

A shady business...