This is for all threads to goto about www.stopburningman.org

[Lydia Love]

Close minded liberals who only look at one side of the story

Oh fuck off. Really. Disagreeing with you is not having a closed mind. It's disagreeing with your sorry ass. Not everyone who goes to burning man or who has disagreed with your sorry ass is a liberal. **I** am, but not all are.

And as for looking at only one side of the story... I looked... and disagreed with your sorry ass.

Furthermore, disagreeing with *your* *sorry* *ass* makes me neither spoon-fed nor a sheep.

[Chai Guy]

I <3 Lydia


(we need more of YOU around here!)

[Isotopia]

Close minded liberals who only look at one side of the story

I guess thanks are in order for showing (and confirming) your colors.

BTW,

Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Have we learned to expect anything but bogus claims from Allanon2 'teacher' of our youth?

[Tancorix]

Mr. Rex Skates / Allanon2:

I have one question for you: Are you sure you want to keep pushing your agenda and the personal attacks as cited by Isotopia, Lydia and others?

I'm going to ask you to think about a favorite statement of mine; being a science teacher you should be familiar with Sir Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Think about your work with stopburningman.org and with your posts here. You have caused a reaction and as you said that was your initial goal. I hope you've factored in that equal and opposite part of the equation.

Consider this a reminder, the laws of physics can't be ignored.

[technopatra]

Have someone check the IP address logs.

No need to. He is as mere a fly in our ointment as you are.

You do realize that you are not even really annoying people, but giving them the opportunity to have some fun with you, right? All these folks like to argue, and you make it so, so easy to have fun at your expense.

[DangerMouse]

So who wants some icecream?

[Patience]

I love ice cream!

One time I ate a whole mackerel in one bite. Of course, that was before my ears turned into swords.

Allanon: What's the difference between "cucumber" and "repeat?"

[BlueBirdPoof]

I use things from my every day life and now can use many of the conversations here as examples of people not looking at all ths sides of a issue. Many of you will be used (I will of course change the names) as examples of how big of idiots peopel in the world can be.

the simplist solution is most likely true not the far fetched conpsiracies that most of you beelive in.

Peepil hoo leev in glas howses

[BlueBirdPoof]

We now know Allanon was an early burner/cacaphonist, and I find it easy to believe he not only knew these folks back then, but still has access to gossip about them.

Oh, my silly idolization of the cacaphony sociaty in the 80s. I thought a veteren of those times would be a better culture jammer.

[BlueBirdPoof]

and whenever i talk here people just bash me and try to make it personal, when it should just be about facts.

Just a reminder that the first bashing in this thread and its antecedents was the "sheep" remark on the stopping bm hate orgy web site.

[rodent]

this is being posted for the benefit of those who are keeping track of these things.

I joined the stopburningman yahoo group to read the discussion on that list and to potentially join that discussion in a rational manner. Yesterday, it seems that I had been unsubscribed from the group. I did not unsubscribe myself but was unscubscribed by someone else (most likely the moderators of the group). I resubscribed a few minutes later.

Today, I tried to access the group and to my surprise, I have been banned from the group. I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list.

According to their list description "This group was created in order to facilitate unfiltered, open debate about the things that Black Rock City, LLC and BLM may or may not be telling the public.". Banning people without any provication does not "facilitate unfiltered, open debate ".
Thay also want "Rational, informed discussion only!!! No ranting uncontrollably! This forum is for the sole purpose of debating a controversial topic, hopefully resulting in everyone being more informed on the subject.". Banning people who have never posted does nothing to encourage this either.

SBM folks seem to be continuing a pattern of behavior consistant with irrational debate and closed mindedness and do not seem to want open discussion of thier positions. (please note, I use the words "seem to" and "pattern of behavior").

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

[allanon2]

that is for sure.
a few generalties maybe.

i have responded to people saying i am not a teacher
I have repsonded to people saying I was 5 differnt people
i have repsonded to people sayign this is all a hoax.
I have repsonded to other non pooofs that others were talking about.
I have also repsonded to people saying I should die and other such non sense.
I have also repsonded to people saying i was a corporate mauder, a disgruntled BMORG person, etc..
none have been personal aatcks at ny of you. I have been personnaly attacked by about 10-15 of you. Which i might add could possibly be illegal.


Yes i followed the 3rd law. I got pushed and I wanted to make sure that people knew publicly i got pushed. I have not pushed back as of yet, and i don't plan on it.

ttyl,
rex scates

Mr. Rex Skates / Allanon2:

I have one question for you: Are you sure you want to keep pushing your agenda and the personal attacks as cited by Isotopia, Lydia and others?

I'm going to ask you to think about a favorite statement of mine; being a science teacher you should be familiar with Sir Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Think about your work with stopburningman.org and with your posts here. You have caused a reaction and as you said that was your initial goal. I hope you've factored in that equal and opposite part of the equation.

Consider this a reminder, the laws of physics can't be ignored.

[allanon2]

I am sorry if you were banend. I did not do that
but I do know i was bannend from the Utah BM list

so not sure what happened.
I can not speak for the person who runs the list but i can say I was banned just for being rex scates from a BM list.
this does mean that its ok but it is one i wanted people to know about

ttyl,
Rex

and please speak to the list moderator maybe their is a problem with your account or maybe you were cussing too much? i know if i ran a list (and I do) and they cussed a lot i would ban them

ttyl
rex

so ask and myba etheir is a reason that you don't knwo about?

this is being posted for the benefit of those who are keeping track of these things.

I joined the stopburningman yahoo group to read the discussion on that list and to potentially join that discussion in a rational manner. Yesterday, it seems that I had been unsubscribed from the group. I did not unsubscribe myself but was unscubscribed by someone else (most likely the moderators of the group). I resubscribed a few minutes later.

Today, I tried to access the group and to my surprise, I have been banned from the group. I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list.

According to their list description "This group was created in order to facilitate unfiltered, open debate about the things that Black Rock City, LLC and BLM may or may not be telling the public.". Banning people without any provication does not "facilitate unfiltered, open debate ".
Thay also want "Rational, informed discussion only!!! No ranting uncontrollably! This forum is for the sole purpose of debating a controversial topic, hopefully resulting in everyone being more informed on the subject.". Banning people who have never posted does nothing to encourage this either.

SBM folks seem to be continuing a pattern of behavior consistant with irrational debate and closed mindedness and do not seem to want open discussion of thier positions. (please note, I use the words "seem to" and "pattern of behavior").

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

[Tancorix]

From my private eplaya inbox. Since it's in my inbox and involves a counterthreat, I feel it belongs on the public record. Here it is:

***************
just to let you know that what you said can be taken as a threat.
You used my own personal name.
do not give me threats.

thank you and i have give no personal attacks as shown below in my repsonse.

***************

I think I'm going to step aside for a few hours and launch a few letters to local Nevada media, along with submitting my own FOIA requests. The only threat I'm going to make is one I'm very capable of backing up. Stop BM is getting organized resistance. I see your group as a threat to my access rights on public land adminstered by the BLM in the Western US. I intend to defend those rights. This is beyond BM; your little agenda could impact my ability to use the offroad trails at Moab, UT, to promote the improvement of the Kokopelli Trail, to enjoy camping in the LaSal Mountains, and much more.

That's why I asked if you had considered the full impact of your actions. Your little efforts to stuff BM could screw things up for millions on down the line. At least that's how I see it and it's on that basis, not on ANYTHING to do with BM itself that I think your group must be countered. Again, I'm not making any personal threats or doing /saying anything to put your safety at risk. (As for using your name, you have made it public knowledge and used it on this very board, therefore I have no problems using it to address you and get your attention). That's on the record. I'll make a guarantee that if you try to influence BLM management of public lands, I will do my best to get a counterpoint out there to provide some balance. I'm also making contacts with other groups to let them know of your work, and to build a coalition to take you on in every forum you choose.

[allanon2]

i wanted to make sure you also got a copy as it involves what you said.

and its not a threat it is a statment to that says don't give me threats. That i don't apreciate threats.

and you just admitted to giving me a threat a couple of posts back? thanks I needed that.

and Tancorix. I also go to Lasal mtn's. I have a very good friend of mine that owns a house and property there. We do go on 4x4 trails. But we stay on the trails.

and no we think globaly and act locally.
and locally is the pliya surface at the blackrock desert.

go ahead let others know about us. they will discover the truth themselves. We apreciate all the help we can get.


ttyl
rex

From my private eplaya inbox. Since it's in my inbox and involves a counterthreat, I feel it belongs on the public record. Here it is:

***************
just to let you know that what you said can be taken as a threat.
You used my own personal name.
do not give me threats.

thank you and i have give no personal attacks as shown below in my repsonse.

***************

I think I'm going to step aside for a few hours and launch a few letters to local Nevada media, along with submitting my own FOIA requests. The only threat I'm going to make is one I'm very capable of backing up. Stop BM is getting organized resistance. I see your group as a threat to my access rights on public land adminstered by the BLM in the Western US. I intend to defend those rights. This is beyond BM; your little agenda could impact my ability to use the offroad trails at Moab, UT, to promote the improvement of the Kokopelli Trail, to enjoy camping in the LaSal Mountains, and much more.

That's why I asked if you had considered the full impact of your actions. Your little efforts to stuff BM could screw things up for millions on down the line. At least that's how I see it and it's on that basis, not on ANYTHING to do with BM itself that I think your group must be countered. Again, I'm not making any personal threats or doing /saying anything to put your safety at risk. (As for using your name, you have made it public knowledge and used it on this very board, therefore I have no problems using it to address you and get your attention). That's on the record. I'll make a guarantee that if you try to influence BLM management of public lands, I will do my best to get a counterpoint out there to provide some balance. I'm also making contacts with other groups to let them know of your work, and to build a coalition to take you on in every forum you choose.

[rodent]

your account or maybe you were cussing too much? i know if i ran a list (and I do) and they cussed a lot i would ban them

Please read a post before you respond.

"I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list"

It's difficult for me to cuss on a list when I have not posted to the list.

so ask and myba etheir is a reason that you don't knwo about?

Email sent, waiting to see if he will respond.

this is being posted for the benefit of those who are keeping track of these things.

I joined the stopburningman yahoo group to read the discussion on that list and to potentially join that discussion in a rational manner. Yesterday, it seems that I had been unsubscribed from the group. I did not unsubscribe myself but was unscubscribed by someone else (most likely the moderators of the group). I resubscribed a few minutes later.

Today, I tried to access the group and to my surprise, I have been banned from the group. I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list.

According to their list description "This group was created in order to facilitate unfiltered, open debate about the things that Black Rock City, LLC and BLM may or may not be telling the public.". Banning people without any provication does not "facilitate unfiltered, open debate ".
Thay also want "Rational, informed discussion only!!! No ranting uncontrollably! This forum is for the sole purpose of debating a controversial topic, hopefully resulting in everyone being more informed on the subject.". Banning people who have never posted does nothing to encourage this either.

SBM folks seem to be continuing a pattern of behavior consistant with irrational debate and closed mindedness and do not seem to want open discussion of thier positions. (please note, I use the words "seem to" and "pattern of behavior").

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

[allanon2]

i didn't even know you never posted on that list.
what name do you go by?

and if you were just lurckign how would anyoen know who you were?

let me know


quote="rodent"]

your account or maybe you were cussing too much? i know if i ran a list (and I do) and they cussed a lot i would ban them

Please read a post before you respond.

"I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list"

It's difficult for me to cuss on a list when I have not posted to the list.

so ask and myba etheir is a reason that you don't knwo about?

Email sent, waiting to see if he will respond.

this is being posted for the benefit of those who are keeping track of these things.

I joined the stopburningman yahoo group to read the discussion on that list and to potentially join that discussion in a rational manner. Yesterday, it seems that I had been unsubscribed from the group. I did not unsubscribe myself but was unscubscribed by someone else (most likely the moderators of the group). I resubscribed a few minutes later.

Today, I tried to access the group and to my surprise, I have been banned from the group. I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list.

According to their list description "This group was created in order to facilitate unfiltered, open debate about the things that Black Rock City, LLC and BLM may or may not be telling the public.". Banning people without any provication does not "facilitate unfiltered, open debate ".
Thay also want "Rational, informed discussion only!!! No ranting uncontrollably! This forum is for the sole purpose of debating a controversial topic, hopefully resulting in everyone being more informed on the subject.". Banning people who have never posted does nothing to encourage this either.

SBM folks seem to be continuing a pattern of behavior consistant with irrational debate and closed mindedness and do not seem to want open discussion of thier positions. (please note, I use the words "seem to" and "pattern of behavior").

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)[/quote]

[rodent]

i didn't even know you never posted on that list.
what name do you go by?

king_rodent is my yahoo account. If you had actually READ my post here, it clearly stated ""I have not posted on that list, nor have I send email to anyone on that list" AND "Banning people who have never posted does nothing to encourage this either". Again, please READ a post before responding. When you don't, it makes you look like you're not listening and reinforces the notion that you are neither open minded nor interested in articulate debate.

and if you were just lurckign how would anyoen know who you were?

I had only been on the list for 24 hours before being bumped off the first time. I had just read through all the posts and was formulating my own responses but did not have the opportunity to do so.

Secondary to that, removing people (lurking or not) makes the group souind and feel more secretive, as if you all have something to hide. It is completely counter to "facilitate unfiltered, open debate".

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

[Patience]

Allanon: Did you know they're making mayonaisse-flavored envelopes now? Yum.

[Rob the Wop]

Allanon: Did you know they're making mayonaisse-flavored envelopes now? Yum.

They are? DAMMIT! Why don't people tell me important things like this?!

Personally, I've just discovered that oranges are round. Imagine my surprise! Now if we can just do something about the world being flat.

[DE FACTO]

[Guest]

Did you know they're making mayonaisse-flavored envelopes now?

that's not mayo.

[Patience]

This thread will henceforth be known as the Mayonnaise thread. So it shall be.

[Guest]

did you know that hellman's mayonnaise is known as "best foods" mayonnaise west of the mississippi? who knew?

[DE FACTO]

did you know that hellman's mayonnaise is known as "best foods" mayonnaise west of the mississippi? who knew?

Yeah, yeah....

I found out when I used to live next to the plant here in S.F.

boy did that plant smell bad.

[Tancorix]

It was requested by someone that I deeply respect and admire to curtail my activities inside this thread. I will gladly and quickly comply.

Allanon, since this is America we all have the rights to pursue our ideas and to express ourselves. However I believe that one person's freedom ends where another's begins. Your going to keep on doing what your doing, but I caution you the resistance is going to pick up. And it will be mounted by some pretty resourceful and deep pocketed individuals who working as a coalition with other users of public lands in the West will deal you and your group setback after political setback. That's what I meant by the 3rd law quote. I hope your prepared to slog it out, this is going to be a tough battle to win.

To all who have voiced their opinions here, thank you for inspiring me and others. Good luck to all, and in the end let's remember that we all share an interest in protecting the playa. It truly is a special, if not magical place deserving of all our efforts to protect it.

[Patience]

Tancorix, please refrain from thread drift. Unless you have something to say about mayonnaise, please take it elsewhere.

[aforceforgood]

I've also joined the sbm yahoo group to check it out, (I'd wager most of the members of that group are probably burners doing the same thing) and it's interesting to note the discrepancy between email notices that include the entire text of a person's posting, and what I see when I go to the actual group site.

It's pretty obvious it's highly edited with a bias (of course) in favor of the sbm crowd.

To sbm crew; you're pathetic. Get a life. If you want that as constructive criticism, try this; spend the precious seconds of your life doing something more worthwhile than spreading venom and hatred. Try taking on some person or group that actually does some real evil instead of setting yourselves up as dragonslayers against BM, who you know is a safe target, who would not do to you what tobacco companies or real corporate polluters would do. You wimps. Grow a real set, you self-styled keyboard heroes. Your delusions that you're actually accomplishing something worthwhile here are leading you farther and farther into your own fantasies.

Some of the posts on the yahoo sbm site are pretty funny, maybe I'll repost them here so we can laugh at them, since this thread refuses to die. Maybe some real ridicule of how stupid and lame you fucks are will shut you up.

From the stop burning man!!! yahoo groups site;

Greetings, Obscurotron!

It is I, redvtec, he who possesses variable valve timing with
electronic lift control. Actually, I no longer possess this
supernatural power, but it remains my Yahoo ID, nonetheless... At
least my hooptie is still red...

Yeesh. Now, that's funny. You can't make that kind of stuff up...

And here's some poetry <sniff> from someone who loves the earth so passionately, that he must be right in everything he says in defense of it right?

The greatest beauty is organic wholeness,
the wholeness of life and things,
the divine beauty of the universe.
Love that, not man apart from that . . .

lines from Robinson Jeffers

Sweet Jesus.

Look, I keep telling you guys, sometimes gently, like my pm'd response to you trying find some common ground with me, and sometimes like a big brother who might smack you on the back of the head to keep you from going outside wearing a tutu and therefore getting the shit beat out of you by the neighborhood kids- You're wasting your fucking lives with this whole shit-stirring experiment, and nothing good's gonna come of it.

[Patience]

"The World of Mayonnaise" is quite possibly the most comprehensive and deliciously entertaining mayonnaise website out there. Feel free to visit it here, but make sure you're ready for some heart-pounding excitement!

http://www.angelfire.com/punk/mayonnaise/Mayonnaise.htm

A philosophical query: can you make mayonnaise without the egg yolk?

[aforceforgood]

Whoops.

Guess I posted that in the wrong thread, sorry about that.

Strangely, though it works well as a lubricant, mayonaisse is not an aphrodesiac.