Need help for Seriously Injured at BM 07'

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RedheadBarbie
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Post by RedheadBarbie » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:35 pm

mdmf007 wrote:Gyre -

If its that ridiculously cheap - I say BMORG finds a stand alone insurance plan and if its less than 20-30 bones attach it to the price of the ticket and make it compulsory for all attendees.
If that were the case we wouldn't attend. We have insurance and are in the medical field so paying more for what we already have wouldn't be kosher.

Also to the OP, nearly every state has state hospitals that base care and meds on your income. Assuming they are not married, her lack of income should get her migraine meds fairly cheap. And a good option is to ask for lower priced meds, such as Maltex, for migraines. Or you could just keep going with super huge name brands that jack up prices for advertising. And if you ask a doc for help and explain the situation he'll give you samples. If someone has already made the same suggestions sorry for the repeat.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:10 pm

Tickets already cover many things we hope not to use, such as the very good medical care supplied by volunteers out there, setting your camp on fire and so on.


As medical professionals, you owe it to yourself and your patients to educate yourself about the actual availability of medical care for the poor in this country.

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RedheadBarbie
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Post by RedheadBarbie » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:29 am

gyre wrote:As medical professionals, you owe it to yourself and your patients to educate yourself about the actual availability of medical care for the poor in this country.
Your post is chock full of assumptions and you know what they say about that.

All of the suggestions I made are ones I have used myself to get through a rough time.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:31 am

My only assumption is that texas has not fixed all the problems every other state has.

Here, gunshot wounds get seen immediately, you can get help for small problems, but you'll die waiting to see a specialist for cancer diagnosis, etc.
I live in a state that brags about cost control and insurance for the poor, but the cost control is denial of service to virtually everyone in need.
Some doctors see people directly, but they are doing that on their own expense.
If you go directly to the er here that covers the poor, you will wait for days.
If you apply to be screened for something less urgent, you wait years.
If you are dropped off at the best suburban hospital AND it is an emergency, you get great care, but no follow up.

My first er experience, I went in with a deep gash on my arm.
They made me wait hours for someone to scrounge up cash in the middle of the night.
I waited hours before they even told me they had no plans to treat me at all, after I had been seen.
They were unwilling to bill me for $120, it seems.
And that was a long time ago.


I am very glad you were so lucky.

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RedheadBarbie
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Post by RedheadBarbie » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:34 pm

Umm, yeah, neither of us are docs or see patients and I didn't say what states I was in when I was struggling, so I guess you win.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:52 pm

I'd rather be wrong about this.

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Post by Damok » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:09 am

First before I give what will surely be a very unpopular opinion on this subject let me say this… My wife and I are Buddhists so obviously we don’t wish ill will on anyone, and it is a shame that due to someone’s complete lack of maturity that these peoples lives were harmed however… We also believe in personal responsibility, something for which this country has seemed to have forgotten.

While obviously the accident was not your fault, your financial situation completely is due to your lack of and planning for the future in the event of a catastrophe. My wife and I have both owned several businesses so we know how hard it can be to make ends meet, however disability insurance is just about the cheapest thing on the planet as far as insurances go, and while you should have been paying into the system, at a minimum you should have at least carried disability insurance on your self, Its generally less than $200.00 per year and if your business could not afford $200.00 to ensure that you can survive in the event you are disabled, than your business model is seriously flawed and you should seek the advice of a business advisor. (Those are also often available at low or no cost to small businesses via your small business council)

Finally, I find this countries views on Health Care rather bizarre and hypocritical. We do not live in a socialist country, so there is no actual provision for healthcare for the poor. Now before you go thinking I am a heartless Poo-Head, understand that the world seems to rally for healthcare for the poor, when many times it the Middle Class who are hardest hit by the healthcare system. For example. Last month we forked out almost $1500.00 for medication that was not covered by our insurance for my wife, if she had been poor and went to the local county hospital for the same medication, the cost would have been based on her income, which would have meant that the medication would have cost her around $80.00.

Also people seem to get upset like when a Doctor wants to bill you for your treatment up front when you have no insurance. What’s wrong with that? You wouldn’t expect to walk into the car dealership with a 10 year old car and have them send you a bill for $2000.00 would you? So why should you expect that from a Doctor? Plus do you have any idea how many people actually pay their medical bills, better than 60% of them have to go to collections before people pay them. In addition to this, that doctor you just saw probably has a $1500.00+ per month student loan bill, and the nurse, well someone has to pay her salary and you need x-rays, well I don’t know what X-ray machines cost these days, but I bet its a lot of money.

On a final note, I agree that healthcare in general in this country sucks, and while I would love to see a world where everyone could get quality healthcare at a reasonable price, it’s not apt to happen anytime soon. We had a friend who was a Doctor in Canada a few years back who moved to the US because there with their socialized medicine you will likely die from Kidney failure before you get dialyses. I hear these days it has gotten better, but I don’t really know as I don’t live there.

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Re: Need help for Seriously Injured at BM 07'

Post by diane o'thirst » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:49 am

searock420 wrote:Read the back of the ticket.
There's a special corner of Hell reserved for people who say that. Not the fun one, either.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/245sagf][img]http://tinyurl.com/2bbr28j/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/23753ws][img]http://tinyurl.com/2auqebj/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/m4y82q][img]http://tinyurl.com/l56rdn/.gif[/img][/url]

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mdmf007
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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:36 pm

Theres a fun corner in hell? I want to hang there then.
Compulsory insurance is done all the time. zyou think it really costs an air ambulance 15K to fly a patient to reno? nope - you ahve to cover the shmo that doesnt ever pay.

I pay higher car insurance to pay for the uninsured motorist.

30 bucks isnt much to ask for peace of mind. who knows what kind of coverage you can get when 40k people are all made to pay that fee in their ticket?

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:48 pm

There was a discussion here sometime within the last two years or so re. air ambulance insurance. I think once people started investigating it the 'deal' wasn't such a deal. In fact, I think the policy in question paid only a small fraction of the cost of air evac.

That's not to say there aren't other policies floating around out there but I've not seen them.
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Post by MrMullen » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:26 pm

mdmf007 wrote: Ms. Lampman's estate filed suit after her death - its still in court last I heard.
It was not Ms. Lampmans estate but her life insurance policy's company that did, which is standard practice. I get a free half million life insurance policy through work and if you kill me, the company I work for, its life insurance company will sue too. I read the fine print.
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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:07 am

MrMullen wrote:It was not Ms. Lampmans estate but her life insurance policy's company that did, which is standard practice.
I doubt that. If I remember correctly when I looked at the docket a year ago, the plaintiff was a Lampman, not an insurance company as subrogor.
An insurance company that has paid benefits probably would assert a lien against any recovery by the plaintiffs. But again, this cannot be known without pulling the court file and reviewing the pleadings.

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mdmf007
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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:26 am

MrMullen wrote:
mdmf007 wrote: Ms. Lampman's estate filed suit after her death - its still in court last I heard.
It was not Ms. Lampmans estate but her life insurance policy's company that did, which is standard practice. I get a free half million life insurance policy through work and if you kill me, the company I work for, its life insurance company will sue too. I read the fine print.
the complaint filed in California court lists "Nancy Belle Lampman" as plaintiff et.al. I am told this is her mother. So maybe the suit was engaged by the insurance company, but looks like mom is signed on.

Docket
1-05-CV-037026

Court Link
http://www.sccaseinfo.org/

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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:48 am

mdmf007 wrote: So maybe the suit was engaged by the insurance company, but looks like mom is signed on.
Is a personal injury action assignable so that an insurance company could file a lawsuit under someone else's name? Property damage claims are typically assignable and it is not uncommon to see an insurance company go after a negligent third-party to recover sums it had to pay to its policyholder.

Any lawyers out there?

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Post by Teo del Fuego » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:16 am

Guys, this only bugs me because I hate to see people flounder in this area. My understanding is that Lampman v. Black Rock City, et. al. is a wrongful death action. It was filed by the mother. In most states who can file such a suit is defined by statute, usually the surviving spouse, child or parents depending on the facts.

There is no insurance company driving this lawsuit, I can guarantee you that. The fact that liability insurance proceeds (i.e. the insurance of the entities being sued) is the anticipated source of recovery, if any, can hardly be blamed on an insurance company.

If you are injured and your insurance company pays your bills, then your insurance company may have the right to be reimbursed from any settlement or verdict you get from the person who caused your injury. Of course, this depends on what type of insurance (No Fault v. Med-pay v. Health Insurance) and the state in which the lawsuit was filed.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:43 pm

I don't know anything about this case, but I do know insurance companies have much to do with these things sometimes.
I was sued for a million dollars by an attorney for a gang member who was injured on my property.
It took three years to convince their crooked attorney that I didn't have insurance for this.
Their award- $0.00.
And I got them sued by their hospital when I tracked down some of their income sources.
Lawsuits open records two ways.
I also caught them in property fraud, but they were never prosecuted.


I had a drunk hit me head on totalling my car.
She then sued me.
I told their attorney I was releasing my insurance company from responsibility.
He had no standing to hold them to the case.
It upset him greatly.
I never heard from him again.
Use this tactic at your own risk.

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Post by Karma13 » Wed May 21, 2008 4:40 pm

[quote]It was not Ms. Lampmans estate but her life insurance policy's company that did, which is standard practice. I get a free half million life insurance policy through work and if you kill me, the company I work for, its life insurance company will sue too. I read the fine print.[/quote]

Teo del Fuego is completely correct in this instance. Her mother, as executor of her estate, sued for wrongful death and retained a personal injury law firm on contingency. From what I heard the lawsuit was a fiasco which amounted to a legal insurance shakedown. It proceeded to the initial deposition stage, and settled before trial.

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mdmf007
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Post by mdmf007 » Wed May 21, 2008 5:28 pm

I wonder what it settled for?

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Wed May 21, 2008 11:27 pm

Any other turds you folks want to pick through?
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Flammepus
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Post by Flammepus » Thu May 22, 2008 3:45 am

[quote="erri2000"][quote]You can be KILLED at Burningman. [/quote]

NOTE: To NOOBS Nobody and I mean nobody can make you do anything you don't want to. If you don't like something or you feel you are being hurt. GET OUT OF THERE QUICK! If you don't like it, it is not for you. Don't let others tell convince you it is OK. If you are not sure ask someone. If it doesn't sound right ask someone else. And if it still sounds really wrong, GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE and don't look back, unless you are just going to lay down and take it or you are ready for the fight of your life.
[/quote]
This is good advice to anyone, n00b or no, in virtually any situation.

For what it is worth, if you are responsible for injuring a person---with or without intent---questions of liability (in the USA, at least) quickly come into play.

The semantic distinction may seem unimportant, but erri2000 is speaking the language of the default courtroom here, and that is where these types of things generally play out for default world stakes.

As per the travel insurance question: do get some. It is very cheap and I would not travel to the USA without it (lest my American Dream turn into a Kafka-esque nightmare if anything requiring health-care were to go wrong) so I do not see why someone would travel inside of the USA without it...as I understand it, SirkusAmerika works without a net. Although insurance can seem like a big expense, it is worth it. I would still not go for mandatory Burn-surance because if someone wants to show up and radically express themselves by being unprotected (from the sun, the heat, a piece of broken glass on the playa, medical bills/legal liability, or whatever), that is their deal. I hand a big chunk of my earnings to the gov where I live so that I don't have to worry about it at home, but I consider travel insurance to be much akin to the sunscreen, condoms, eye protection, aluminum beenie, and plastic jesus that I take with me whenever I go afar.

I hope that the couple affected by this accident (and I REALLY want to believe that it is an accident) have begun to readjust and put things on track. That is a serious pile to have to swallow, but it gets smaller if you take one bite at a time (please excuse the trite-seeming truism).

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mdmf007
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Post by mdmf007 » Thu May 22, 2008 2:20 pm

for the cost its a great value - alot of insurance plans even cover the trip if it doesnt work out, you get delayed, miss flights etc...

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu May 22, 2008 5:48 pm

Medical evacuation if you need it, dwag forbid.
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PlayaPunk
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Insuremytrip.com

Post by PlayaPunk » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:03 pm

After reading this thread, I went to insuremytrip.com. Coverage for myself for a half million in medical insurance as well as medivac coverage was only $27.
Thanks for a great 08 burn!

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sktELEMENT
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Post by sktELEMENT » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:35 pm

I have two answers, one will piss everyone off (and im not saying do it I am just saying its an option so dont get pissy!) and the other is reasonable.

Answer 1 (no piss off): I assume you guys dont have a college degree in business or anything so you cant go work for Microsoft so: Get a good job with the state, construction, or anything that supplies you with health insurance, simple as that. If you go to a University, they have awesome insurance plans (you have to pay but relatively cheap) that should cover all. Simply do that and you are set.

Answer 2 (piss off all): Simply hire up an ok to good lawyer, and sue burning man. Yeah I know it says on the back at your own risk blah blah, but believe me, your freak no fault case will surpass in the court of law against what it says on the back of a ticket. Specially since you never officially signed anything. If you do sue dont be selfish, simply ask for payment of medical bills. This IS the TRUE reason that burning man tickets are so expensive, they just keep that under wraps so they dont get sued all the time. Sorry people, truth be told.

Hope this was helpful, both are very real, very realistic answers...Or just win the lottery.
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sktELEMENT
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Re: Insuremytrip.com

Post by sktELEMENT » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:41 pm

[quote="PlayaPunk"]After reading this thread, I went to insuremytrip.com. Coverage for myself for a half million in medical insurance as well as medivac coverage was only $27.[/quote]

Yes...but you dont already have fatty medical bills, a disibility, and an already known future of more medical bills for your illness...
Infect Me

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sktELEMENT
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Post by sktELEMENT » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:04 pm

To show further what can be proven in court: Did you order and ask for an airlift out of burning man? Who's to say you wanted it, for that they may have to pay.

Once again not trying to piss anyone off just showing some reality. And by suing burning man you will force everyone to help with your situation, by raising ticket costs!
Infect Me

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sktELEMENT
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Post by sktELEMENT » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:06 pm

To show further what can be proven in court: Did you order and ask for an airlift out of burning man? Who's to say you wanted it, for that they may have to pay.

Once again not trying to piss anyone off just showing some reality. And by suing burning man you will force everyone to help with your situation, by raising ticket costs!
Infect Me

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:19 pm

Hope this was helpful, both are very real, very realistic answers...
Were you a real lawyer you'd probably be dis-barred for that second opinion of yours which boils down to being worthless as advice and silly as an opinion.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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steveboy
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Post by steveboy » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:09 pm

Damok wrote:My wife and I are Buddhists so obviously we don’t wish ill will on anyone, and it is a shame that due to someone’s complete lack of maturity that these peoples lives were harmed however… We also believe in personal responsibility, something for which this country has seemed to have forgotten.

While obviously the accident was not your fault, your financial situation completely is due to your lack of and planning for the future in the event of a catastrophe.
So I'm wondering if this is your reaction when you see a monk in a saffron robe with a begging bowl relying on the goodwill of his community to get by.

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:44 pm

sktELEMENT wrote:If you do sue don't be selfish, simply ask for payment of medical bills.
If they sue they have to pay for the lawyer. If they can't afford medical bills, they can't afford a lawyer, and they will have to do the percentage of a big pot thing.
The Lady with a Lamprey

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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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