The Contraption 2.0

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:55 pm

I wanted to say thanks for the post with the gasket material links. You just gave me an answer to two problems I've been putting off dealing with.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:12 pm

this kind a looks like Parts for it.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:01 pm

MozyBonz wrote:

If it is that's great! the AC units are designed to run at higher temperatures and pressures. I think you will find that this is a sealed system compressor with no vent for the crank case.

Damn, Mozy... I bet youre right!! That it not a sight glass on the side, but there is indeed an adjustable valve under that big honkin' brass fitting. I'd wondered about that actually. And there is no external vent in the crankcase... it vented into the passages in the block with those odd little check valves.

Huh...

This thing is built like a tank, I do know that.

ETA: I don't think its a sight glass anyways. I seem to remember it being a big brass plug, but I'll double check that tomorrow.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:02 pm

Kinetic V wrote:I wanted to say thanks for the post with the gasket material links. You just gave me an answer to two problems I've been putting off dealing with.

Hey, glad to have been of service!!

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:38 pm

do you have a SER.#and or a MOD.# on it?

They usually have a name plate with some info on the compressor spec and size.
I also think it will have a oil pump at the end of the crank. . Look for it. The small screen may be the inlet for for the pump. don't think car oil pump when you look
these can just look like a cap at the end of the crank. pull off a cover and its half of a oil pump.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:57 pm

built like a tank

yea I would say so... output high-side compressor pressures can be as high as 250 psi or higher.

stargeezer · Post by **stargeezer** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:43 am

First off, this is coming from someone who knows just enough to be very dangerous, so consider the source before making any design changes.

As I understand it, the plan was to add additional oil and use a splash system for lubrication. If this is a refrigeration compressor, I know that freon was also used as a solvent, so I would expect some sort of seals near the bearing surfaces to try to hold the oil and prevent freon wash. If this is the case, I would wonder if the seals would actually prevent splashed oil from getting access to the bearings.

Again, I have no real experience with these compressors, just concerned as I would hate for it to fail out on the playa for this reason.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:35 am

Here's a link to the first thread for Contraptioneering

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... hey+lechat

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:00 am

I have a call in to my dad.
He has been working on this type of units for over fifty years
If we can come up with a mod/ser Number. I think I could get a parts break down.

And I really think this will have a oil pump. A quick check is if it has oil ports on the crank it will have a pump to pump the oil there.
oil and refrigerant are both together in the crank case of the compressor.
the oil used is a oil meant to be in contact with the refrigerant so seals
on the unit are meant to keep the refrigerant in the unit not to keep the oil separate from the refrigerant.

The cap and the valve I pointed out are used to hook up gages for testing freon levels the cap is so the valve can not leak refrigerant when not being serviced

I think this valve is on the output of the compressor.

I need more pictures of the unit.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:21 am

You are correct Mozy, the valve is on the output side.

I'll check the rest of the items in question later today.

Stargeezer... I don't remember seeing any seals on the inside of the crank, but I'll double check.

And Mozy, there is what appears to be a cover (as described) for an oil pump at the back of the crankshaft. So, what I thought might be some sort of strange pressure driven oil system was likely for freon, eh? Weird... I'll post more pics and any numbers I find later today as well.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:34 am

this is starting to get fun....

I think I have seen one like this before. it was used for some old wooden cold boxes under a very old bar called The Mountain Lion.
I wonder where this unit came from? I bet the story would just add more greatness to the contraption.

"yea it kept beer cold for 40 years now it pumps steam"

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:25 am

And the guest cat is...
http://www.eyebeam.com/new/index.php?num=22

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:05 pm

MozyBonz wrote:this is starting to get fun....

I think I have seen one like this before. it was used for some old wooden cold boxes under a very old bar called The Mountain Lion.

\/
Any other story would be: How you know what is "under the bar" at the Old Mountion Lion..

Some thing like this.There on the floor on top of whore lay"who/ whom"¿¿¿

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:14 pm

Hehehehe I learned to sip whisky in that bar.

Boy do I have some stories about that bar.

The bar was one of my AC accounts I service for my dad.

OK just got off the phone. This is an open compressor apposed to a closed. With a closed system the electric motor is inside the compressor also the oil in it vaporizes into the Freon and moves though the system coming back to the crankcase. With an open system (belt driven) compressors the oil mostly stays in the crankcase. Both use oil pumps.
And both have Freon in the crankcase. To add oil in both it is sucked in the suction side while the compressor is running. A site glass is used for the oil level in both.

He still has tons of old manuals
Sadly we just sold off all the parts he had.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:37 pm

Tiahaar what are you working on?

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:05 pm

Hiya MozyBonz and all the rest of the Contraptioneering crowd (caught me lurking here again...actually my favorite stop before crashing for the night) Love the added mystery on the A/C compressor-Steam Engine! It will be a sweet machine.

Speaking of engines and oils...my current 'project' is getting oil out of where it shouldn't be in another very different coolant system...my bus radiator!! AAaagh!! The very old bus that gets me and my projects to the playa has I believe developed a crack in the heat exchanger/oil cooler core. Its an otherwise reliable Detroit Diesel 6V71 but I've got to drain the coolant, drain the engine oil, pull the cooler housing off of the engine and replace the core. Will put in new thermostats and filters and give it all a good maintenance flushing and once-over at the same time. Not nearly as exciting as a new project, but I've got some add-ons in the works to my flaming trike

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:49 am

Since this is the gearhead thread, I'm gonna post this glossary for your enjoyment and education.

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for
suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your
hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings
your soda across the room, splattering it against that
freshly-stained heirloom piece you were drying.

WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws
them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of
light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned
guitar callouses from fingers in about the time it
takes you to say, 'Yeouw....'

ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop
rivets in their holes until you die of old age, or for
perforating something behind and beyond the original
intended target object.

SKIL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs
too short.

PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used
in the creation of blood-blisters.

BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to
convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing
jobs. Caution: Avoid using for manicures.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built for
frustration enhancement. It transforms human energy
into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you
attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your
future becomes.

VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely
round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available,
they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat
to the palm of your hand.

WELDING GLOVES: Heavy duty leather gloves used to
prolong the conduction of intense welding heat to the
palm of your hand.

OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting
various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also
handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub you
want the bearing race out of.

WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older
British cars and motorcycles, they are now used mainly
for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2 socket you've been
searching for the last 45 minutes.

TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used
to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity.

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile
to the ground after you have installed your new brake
shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly under the
bumper.

EIGHT-FOOT LONG YELLOW PINE 4X4: Used for levering an
automobile upward off of a trapped hydraulic jack
handle.

TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters and wire
wheel wires.

E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool ten times
harder than any known drill bit that snaps neatly off
in bolt holes thereby ending any possible future use.

RADIAL ARM SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily
used by most shops to scare neophytes into choosing
another line of work.

TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum
tensile strength of everything you forgot to
disconnect.

CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 24-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A very large pry
bar that inexplicably has an accurately machined
screwdriver tip on the end opposite the handle.

AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.

TROUBLE LIGHT: The home mechanic's own tanning booth.
Sometimes called a drop light, it is a good source of
vitamin D, 'the sunshine vitamin,' which is not
otherwise found under cars at night. Health benefits
aside, its main purpose is to consume 40- watt light
bulbs at about the same rate that 105mm howitzer
shells might be used during, say, the first few hours
of the Battle of the Bulge. More often dark than
light, its name is somewhat misleading. The accessory
socket within the base, has been permanently rendered
useless, unless requiring a source of 117vac power to
shock the mechanic
senseless.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum
seals under lids, opening old-style paper-and-tin oil
cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be
used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw
heads.

STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans.
Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into
non-removable screws.

AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced
in a coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and
transforms it into compressed air that travels by hose
to a Chicago Pneumatic impact gun that grips rusty
bolts which were last over tightened 40 years ago by
someone at VW, and instantly rounds
off their heads. Also used to quickly snap off lug
nuts.

PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding
that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to
replace a 50 cent part.

HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the
hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to
locate the most expensive parts adjacent to the object
we are trying to hit.

MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the
contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front
door; works particularly well on contents such as
seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles,
collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or
plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work
clothes, but only while in use. It is also useful for
removing large chunks of human flesh from the user's
hands.

DAMMIT TOOL: (I have lot's of these) Any handy tool
that you grab and throw across the garage while
yelling 'DAMMIT' at the top of your lungs. It is also,
most often, the next tool that you will need after a
really big hammer

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:18 pm

HEEHEEHEE!!!

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:25 pm

Captain..... We clearly have the same tools. Hehehehe

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:02 pm

When I was in tech school learning machining, there was a question on one of the tests that was multiple choice and referred to a tool called a â€œWigglerâ€

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:45 pm

http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/pics ... ilent.html

http://www.cameragraph.com/id5.html

My friend Dave just got one of these acetylene carbon powered beauties from 1906, I think.
Hand cranked.

He has a very tiny steam whistle too.
Come see his metal shop.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:35 am

Man tis brought back a flood of memerys.

Your right Mr Noir I do see the future in there...

Lechat Wins the contraption of the year award again in 2008.

Ok back to research.
I will get back to you with any info I get.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:18 am

Ok the casting marks are cool but will be no help. As you know but we will state it for the lurkers. What casting marks are used for is to identify when, where and who was the maker of the block or piece for the compressor. Some of them change per block some per day or month. With out their codes the numbers mean nothing. And wouldnâ€™t help in this situation anyway. But the Ser.# and manufacture can help. With bolt tork specs, rpm, gaskets and maybe parts. (I canâ€™t quite make out the 2nd part to the ser#) If not it just adds to the story on how this contraption came to be. As for the plugs some may have to do with machining ports in the block or test ports. The one plug at the end where the oil pump is I would pull out it may have a spring with a check ball as part of the oil pump. Then just put it back in. Or you might be able to hook up an oil pressure gauge there to give you steam engine oil pressure. Thatâ€™s all for now just waiting for a call back from Dad.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:27 am

As for the check valves plug them. looks like a 3/8 pipe plug thread. Use brass plugs.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:37 pm

I have to ask this just because Iâ€™ve been machining new parts for an exhibit that has flowing water. The brass plugs brought my question to mind.

What are the potential corrosion points caused by galvanic action ? this thing Iâ€™ve been working on has aluminum components that someone put bronze bushing in. the bronze caused the aluminum and the bronze to melt away at the surface where there was water contact. This probably wouldnâ€™t be much of a problem with the engine but the steam generator could have problems quickly if you combine copper and other metals . It is amazing how fast it can happen.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:50 pm

Zulegoona wrote:I have to ask this just because Iâ€™ve been machining new parts for an exhibit that has flowing water. The brass plugs brought my question to mind.

What are the potential corrosion points caused by galvanic action ? this thing Iâ€™ve been working on has aluminum components that someone put bronze bushing in. the bronze caused the aluminum and the bronze to melt away at the surface where there was water contact. This probably wouldnâ€™t be much of a problem with the engine but the steam generator could have problems quickly if you combine copper and other metals . It is amazing how fast it can happen.

Aluminum and brass are much farther apart on the galvanic scale than iron/steel and brass, so the effect would not be as extreme.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:39 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:
Zulegoona wrote:I have to ask this just because Iâ€™ve been machining new parts for an exhibit that has flowing water. The brass plugs brought my question to mind.

What are the potential corrosion points caused by galvanic action ? this thing Iâ€™ve been working on has aluminum components that someone put bronze bushing in. the bronze caused the aluminum and the bronze to melt away at the surface where there was water contact. This probably wouldnâ€™t be much of a problem with the engine but the steam generator could have problems quickly if you combine copper and other metals . It is amazing how fast it can happen.
Aluminum and brass are much farther apart on the galvanic scale than iron/steel and brass, so the effect would not be as extreme.

As far as the brass and steel they currently use that combination in steam cleaning equipment now.

As far as I know Aluminum is the worst for Electrolysis Corrosion.

Electrolysis Corrosion can also be much worse when accelerated by electrical power leakage coming through a power supply. The damage from electrolysis can also be partly controlled by the use of sacrificial anodes.

Edit:in your case I would replace the brass with nylon or PVC plugs if heat is not a issue.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:11 am

MozyBonz wrote:As for the check valves plug them. looks like a 3/8 pipe plug thread. Use brass plugs.

When I still worked in Tool&Die, we would drill water lines into mold bases to allow for cooling the molds while running them in the press. These would be plugged, where needed, with plugs and thread sealant. We usually used steel plugs with no problems. Brass works great as well, but is more costly. Brass and bronze really excel when you have things like copper meeting steel (soft copper lines from boiler meeting a cast iron/steel engine block). They act as an intermediary between the two keeping galvanic corrosion down.

And Mozyâ€¦ itâ€™s interesting how photos can sometimes make things look bigger than they are. Would you believe that those threads on the check valves are 1/8â€

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:11 am

I'd give Mozy credit for the thread identification. 1/8" IP is about 3/8" in diameter. I thought the first and read the second and never noticed the discrepancy.

However, I did just buy a steady rest for my 9" swing lathe. The steady rest is 9" from base to center. That is probably a 20" swing.

Steady rest for sale -- cheap!

Bin Noddin · Post by **Bin Noddin** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:36 am

MozyBonz wrote:
As far as I know Aluminum is the worst for Electrolysis Corrosion.

So I should NOT use the aluminum vent cap on the steel vent for the store heater? Those idjits at Home Despot don't know nuthin . . . and they only have aluminum ones.

The Contraption 2.0

Contraptioneering OS1