BM 2008, too political?

dannoura · Post by **dannoura** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:30 am

hi,

Last time I attended BM was in 2001. I promised myself I'd come back and now I'm finally able to.

But, it seems this year, considering the theme, there's a good chance that BM will be political. I think that mixing BM and politics will be very bad for the BM experience. Regardless of the fact that I'm probably going to disagree with the more strident political gestures out there (I already saw someone on one of the message boards promising to fly a 767 into The Man), politics and fun and introspection just don't mix.

Never bring up politics or religion at dinner parties and that goes double (at least) at a counterculture festival. I wholeheartedly agree with the people who think that trying to use BM to explore or promote political messages of any sort (2007: Green Man, 2008: The American Dream) is a bad idea. To paraphrase Yoda: politics leads to anger, anger leads to hate. That's not what BM is about for me.

That said, I do want to go. The question is only how much do you think will the current year's theme affect the festival? Am I going to see many exhibits by people trying to trash their favorite political bugbear? People canvassing for their preferred presidential candidate? What's the buzz on this?

thanks,
Dan.

Token · Post by **Token** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:43 am

dannoura wrote:The question is only how much do you think will the current year's theme affect the festival?

Zip, zilch, nada.

The same way the whole Green Theme last year did not prevent folks from blasting thousands of gallons of jet fuel, tens of tons of propane, and torching dozens of structures big and small. The core group of doers still come to blow shit up and fuck shit up. It was actually ironic and absurd in a "Family Guy" sort of way.

Just the number of rented RVs was staggering in the last few years. The Playa has become a tourist destination and that influences the event more than any theme.

It will be a much changed place since 2001, but in a weird way it will be the same if you look hard enough.

You should definitely go again. The theme is irrelevant.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:04 am

I was as guilty as the rest about whining about the theme, but god people, lets get over it already. Like Token said, the Green Man theme had little to no impact on the overall incredible art and vibe on the playa. The biggest impact last year was the really crappy Pavillion depriving Burners of a special place around the Man, and that was not that big of a deal. I used to wonder why BMorg didn't weigh in more on ePlaya discussions. The reason is we are a bunch of sniveling whiners who bitch and complain about EVERYTHING.

Boycotting BM2008 because of the theme is like boycotting the Athens Olympics because there was a lot of hooplah over Greece's role in the history of the games.

Jes my opinion, Im pulling on my asbestos suit now/!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:51 am

You could look at the theme camp & art installation lists as the org posts them on the main website. Or relevant threads on the eplaya. Or just ask aimless questions without doing any homework.

Having been involved in DPW, I'm pretty ambivalent about theme ideas in general, and more focused on the physical manifestations. So I'm all in favor of people bringing more flags & banners & signs to convey messages and less structural trash for DPW to set up & clean up. I'll continue to dream, as it's unlikely to happen.

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:38 am

I don't remember what the theme is this year. I never pay attention to the theme. The only politics I've seen brought up this year about the Burn is the original post of this thread. Hence, I demand the original poster not attend.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/civex/2296606293/

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:54 pm

There's a theme?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:57 pm

What's a gyre and why is it widening?

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:14 pm

A gyre is any manner of swirling vortex. It is often used to describe large-scale wind or ocean currents. Gyres are caused by the Coriolis effect.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:11 pm

To gyre is to go round and round like a gyroscope.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:51 pm

Usually a traditional religious or metaphysical symbol of the infinite, as well as mathematical.
It has often had more elaborate interpretations.
I think the oceanic term is a relatively new usage.
There is a story of an enormous oceanic whirlpool that resonated with people.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/jan19.html
http://www.eapoe.org/works/tales/msfndd.htm

Some explanation of Yeats is found here and there.
http://www.yeatsvision.com/Geometry.html
http://www.yeatsvision.com/Fictions.html
I found a reference to a spiral dance.
Sorry I can't find better examples right now.
I pronounce the name with a hard G.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:10 pm

this topic has come up several times before on eplaya.

This is not the thread I was looking for but some interesting points were made in this thread you may want to check out: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... ght=#51342

Technopatra had posted a point I was looking for but dont have the time to find righ now that had the statistics of burners that were in involved in politics. if anyone finds it, it was really pretty facsinating.

like she said then, politics has always been a part of burningman.

Sorry about the spelling this time. I just dont have the time and at the moment I am on a single button mouse MAC.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:47 pm

Go. And if the theme stills bothers you when you get back, complain at that point.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:27 am

Save your receipts.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:49 am

DVD Burner wrote: Sorry about the spelling this time. I just dont have the time and at the moment I am on a single button mouse MAC.

That affects your spelling ability??

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:40 pm

http://www.eyebeam.com/1985/index.php?num=178
An Overview of World Affairs

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:44 pm

BitterDan wrote:A gyre is any manner of swirling vortex. It is often used to describe large-scale wind or ocean currents. Gyres are caused by the Coriolis effect.

Like a gyre and gimbel in the wabes?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:00 pm

I just wrote this for you:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:12 pm

Thanks Dougly.
Seems vaguely familiar somehow...

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:08 pm

skygod wrote:
BitterDan wrote:A gyre is any manner of swirling vortex. It is often used to describe large-scale wind or ocean currents. Gyres are caused by the Coriolis effect.
Like a gyre and gimbel in the wabes?

Getting mimsy on us?

Lord Of Ruin · Post by **Lord Of Ruin** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:37 am

Damn hippies

transgirl · Post by **transgirl** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:32 am

I hated the Green Man theme. Moreso than the American Dream, I think. I actually don't mind American Dream that much.
I went to some panel discussion with some BM bigwig organizers. Don't remember their names... But anyway, people started suggesting things such as taxing people who don't use solar power at future events and yada yada yada.

Really f-in annoying when leftist greenies start pushing their values on everyone else. Just as annoying as well bible thumpers and other misc right wingers do it.

I bring out tents, since I'm poor, and the RV's are ugly anyway, but come on.

I guess in that way, I can agree that political themes can be irritating. People start pushing values on others and there ya go, I'm getting pissed instead of enjoying a good burn.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:06 pm

Taxing people who don't use solar power???

I guess that's one way to see if solar panels will burn.

Caine · Post by **Caine** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:48 pm

I don't know.. I think that "taxing" is a really bad idea, yeah. But there are easier ways to put their values where their mouth is that won't alienate people.

Like incentives.

I happen to think that using fossil fuels is a Bad Idea (tm) and am in the process of getting my house over to self sufficiency with wind and solar. We also only drive diesel cars that will soon be 100% bio powered. Neither thing is terribly expensive, considering tax credits, and that the price of energy will be going up.

So, if BMORG really wanted to incentivize green power, they should offer CREDITS. Like offering a certain amount of free ice/coffee if you are running a Green Camp. I'm sure the AEZ would have a lot of ideas along that line.

The issue is how do you regulate it? How do you know someone bracketed by NON green camps doesn't just plug in to their gensets?
Im sure there are answers to these questions that wouldn't "push leftist values" on other people.

Honestly though, I don't see how wanting to be energy independent is a "left" issue. It sure seems to me that a good number of pretty hard core righties are into it as well. Sure, the "crazy" lefty loony types have been shouting about it for a long time, so you tend to have an association with that, but at the core of it it's definitely not a political spectrum issue. Plenty of people out there who are conservatives and want to be energy independent.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:48 pm

But, it seems this year, considering the theme, there's a good chance that BM will be political. I think that mixing BM and politics will be very bad for the BM experience.

Well then... (drum roll..)

Don't fucking go.

There. I said it.

Someone had to.

Tassles McNasty · Post by **Tassles McNasty** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:57 am

i think there will undoubtedly be some political vibes.. but i don't think the theme should even be taken so literal. "American Dream" doesn't have to concern politics at all... i'm hoping that people will be clever and come up with some unexpected variations on the theme that i would have never thought of.

if you haven't been since '01 i am guessing you will be way more pre-occupied with the festival itself than any theme :)

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:24 pm

I had a French Dream the other night.

But I couldn't understand it.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:50 pm

They say if not for the united states, france would be speaking german now.

Of course, if not for france, we'd all be speaking cherokee here now.

lonestoner916 · Post by **lonestoner916** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:11 pm

Testing

bleeb82 · Post by **bleeb82** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:23 pm

I see its the same usernames for alot of threads..was wondering, do ye guys meet up at the playa? or is it just cyber space?
:D

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:07 pm

There's the eplaya bar.

Mostly we miss each other by five minutes out there.

BM 2008, too political?

BM 2008, too political?

Re: BM 2008, too political?

random wonderings..