Wireless Sound

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:04 pm

I'd like to learn about wireless sound systems. I'm looking for more than just a single input wireless mic/guitar system. Basically, the idea is to link my art car to another system, enabling me to play their sound through my system. I know it's been done before. I've seen it myself. It seemed to work fine. Does anybody have any advice? links? smart comments?

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:15 pm

just a shot here,...may totally not possible with your set up,...but...

you know those i-pod radio frequency units?

if your art car had a radio installed in it, and the "mother soundrack" art car had music coming out on a certain frequency,...all you'd have to do is tune in.

as far as the i-pod system goes, you have to be a few car lengths away to pick up the other cars signal but i'm sure there are more powerful systems.

like a mobile radio station, in essence.

dig?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:35 pm

Will this work for you?

Click the pic.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:05 pm

One of those is the most obvious solution, but remember that range is ULTRA short, and sound quality is shit.

A friend and I tried synching our boat sound systems that way; I could just barely pick up a scratchy signal even while tied up along side of him.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:49 pm

that was the quickest solution I could come up with but somewhere in eplaya someone came up with the ultimate solution last year. I just cant find the thread.
It's in eplaya though.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:39 pm

DVD Burner wrote: somewhere in eplaya someone came up with the ultimate solution last year. I just cant find the thread.
It's in eplaya though.

I'd venture to say that if YOU can't find it, it ain't there!

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:08 pm

MozyBonz knows a lot about this stuff. Iâ€™ve talked with him about this before and remember heâ€™d talked about using microphones to pic up the outside source and routing it through a mixer. But heâ€™d mentioned some type of very special mic for thisâ€¦

Mozy?!?

Where are you?!?

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:45 pm

FM and lots of money is how you do it.

Don't be telling my secrets kitty...

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:05 pm

You can establish a wireless network between two laptops or desktops. A decent wireless transmitter would get a couple hundred yards easy. Get the signal booster and I bet a half mile or more is doable.

its all off the shelf hardware.

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:00 am

What about this: http://musicsciences.com/sp-bin/spirit? ... &CATALOG=5

It seems like it would do the job but with too much work. I know I need something more powerful than an iPod FM modulator, but not this much. There has to be something in between. It makes too much sense.

Astrolabe · Post by **Astrolabe** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:11 am

jaimito-

I responded to your PM. But will post what I am finding out so everyone can benefit. We have looked into the wireless guitar setup and this is what I am leaning towards. However, my brethren are leaning towards an fm transmitter. In the $1300- $1500 wholesale range. This is all theoretical ofcourse (just incase the FCC and the NSA monitor eplaya)

With the fm transmitter you could broadcast to anyone anywhere on the playa. the recipient would need just a fm reciever/tuner. Powerful and offering the best sound, that is how it has been described to me by an engineer friend.

Now if I can just remember where we buried the treasure, we might be able to afford one.

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:45 am

Astrolabe-

Okay I guess the biggest problem with a wireless guitar system would be that it probably wouldn't handle the full range of sound we need. I'll be linking up mostly with systems playing dubstep, so A LOT of deep wobbly bass and crisp snares will need to get through.
It sounds like an FM transmitter might work better. Although, I think a really powerful FM transmitter might be trouble. The FCC permits "low power transmitters" to operate without registering. In order to be considered low power it must not produce a field strength of more than 250 micro volts at 10 feet from your antenna. There are a lot of transmitters on ebay and craigslist that might work.

What does everyone think?

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:10 am

You are on the right track with FM. If you are just using it on playa FCC should not be a problem. Have you ever tried tuning in a FM radio in black rock city? You would be surprised how many people are broadcasting in the city.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:24 am

Maybe you are looking for a Kosher Sound System. No electricity required for amplification.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:32 pm

FM100B - Super Pro FM Stereo Radio Station Kit
List Price Your Price Qty
$259.00 $249.00

Detailed Description
Built-in mixer - 2 line inputs and one microphone input, line level monitor output
Precision active low-pass "brick wall" audio filter
Clean, filtered RF output suitable for RF amplification
Frequency range 88.0 to 108.0 MHz, 100 KHz steps
Our FM100B is the updated version of a truly professional frequency synthesized radio transmitter station in one durable, handsome cabinet. It is used all over the world by serious hobbyists as well as churches, drive-in theaters, and schools. No one else offers all of these features at this price! The included frequency display and audio level meters assist in easy operation. The "B" version now includes some additional functionality including a line level monitor output, improved stereo separation, spectral purity, audio clarity, and adjustable RF Output.

Sound quality is impressive, and equal to or better than most commercial stations. Low pass input filtering plus peak limiters put maximum "punch" in your audio, and prevent overmodulation distortion. Churches, drive-ins, schools and colleges find the FM100B to be the answer to their transmitting needs... you will too. The kit includes a sharp looking metal cabinet, whip antenna, and built-in 110/220 volt AC power supply. An external antenna connection allows hook-up to high performance antennas like our vertical and colinear models.

Shhh don't tell anyone~~~

You will need to look for the link your self try the stuff in bold

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:52 pm

You should do some reading before hand~~

Search Results 1 - 10 of 654 total results for radio on the BM web site.

Burning Man Radio Stations
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-a=00 ... rch=Search

Astrolabe · Post by **Astrolabe** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:17 pm

Yes, the pirate radio stations on the playa are plentiful. So I am not sure if the fcc could really do anything, or even cares.

Thanks for the info on the transmitter mozybonz. I may buy it just cause it says "super pro." It must be good, right.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:20 pm

What range and freq response are you looking for?

I suggest you go to a hamfest.
If you can't find something, they can point you in the right direction.

Great prices from these guys, but you can't beat used ham stuff.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/

More high end and video oriented
http://www.video.bhphotovideo.com/index.jsp

Look for last year's race car.
Long range remote phone units may work, if the freq response is what you want.
Better antennae will vastly improve range too.

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:08 pm

I used to ehar rumor of FCC on playa searching for the stations to shut em down.

in reality the FCC is complaint driven - I doubt they give a shit about an event on playa, unless the signals are bleeding over into Gerlach, Winnemucca, or Lovelock.

but its anyones guess what the feds are going to do.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:31 am

We had a great low power station here.
As you probably know, there is supposed to be permits for this but they are never issued.
After they upgraded, they had a clean signal, no interference.
They had the most incredible variety of material that would never get played on even mainstream volunteer stations.
The FCC shut them down and confiscated their equipment.
I stopped listening to local radio completely after that.

The FCC should be torn down brick by brick and replaced with someone that will do their job, not just a shill for the megacorporations.
They have helped destroy news media in the usa.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:58 am

At an Air Show
we used a small transmitter to broadcast to three PA systems plugged into small FM tuners on top of the buildings . We used it as public a address system and played back music and sound FX on it for the air show. We had a jet fly by on tape that made people look to the sky for the jet.

Sound can be fun

Um... it helps to know radio engineers.

conceivably you could link several sound camps and hav.......Ummmm...maybe I shouldn't say anything more.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:29 pm

conceivably you could link several sound camps and hav.......Ummmm...

...one giant playa-wide speaker system?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:48 pm

That would be COOL!!! Especially if you could get the biggest 10:00 and 2:00 sound camps together for an hour or so and set up some special effects, like the jet fly-by or whetever else, in playa-wide stereo...
All it would take is someone to bring the transmitters and a few receivers, one for each big sound camp to feed into their board...

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:08 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:That would be COOL!!! Especially if you could get the biggest 10:00 and 2:00 sound camps together for an hour or so and set up some special effects, like the jet fly-by or whetever else, in playa-wide stereo...
All it would take is someone to bring the transmitters and a few receivers, one for each big sound camp to feed into their board...

Or even if you got the DJ at the DEEP END slip in a sound bite of a jet screaming past. You would get a hundred or so dancing fools looking into the sky at once.. Worth the price of the ticket just to see that...

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:20 pm

Oh shit! what did I start?

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:38 pm

MozyBonz wrote:Oh shit! what did I start?

Something VERY cool....

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:10 pm

Bonz... I was looking at that same transmitter. Was watching it on Ebay. I think it sold for under $250. Illll SON!!! I think that's it, or something like it. Thanks. The only problem is the power source. I suppose I could build a portable crate for the transmitter and a 12v battery to power it up.

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:28 pm

okay. i've decided on the fm100b. i'm done looking and this will work perfectly. and i can buy a kit to upgrade it to 1w RF output for about $35.

i need help with something else though. i don't want to use the power from a system who's owner i'm asking permission to tap into. so i need it to be completely portable.

i don't know much about building a power kit. but the cool thing about the fm100b is that it's made to be used in different countries with different types of power sources, so it might not need much. will someone with knowledge of powering electronics with a 12v battery help me out? it has a 110/220v supply with auto stepping(?) and runs between 85 and 264 VAC. what do i need? are there kits already available? here's a link to the manual (pg. 5): http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/downlo ... FM100B.pdf

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:11 pm

Ok... first you need to know how many amps this things draws. Dig through the manual and see if you can locate that information. It may be listed in the specs as "Input Power Requirments" and be something like "120VAC 2.0A" or something similar.

You can also check the transformer if you have physical access to one of these units. It will be listed as "Output Power" on the transformer because this what the transformer is sending to the equipment.

If you have multiple pieces of equipment making up the broadcasting unit, you will need this info for each piece.

Then we can talk about inverters and batteries.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:34 pm

ZoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooommMMMMM