Sound Systems

househead805 · Post by **househead805** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:04 pm

Hello all, I am new to BM but will be cruising with a crew who has been a few times. Several of us are House DJ's and want to bring our own system this year. I poked around the site but could not find any clear regulations on noise output. Hopefully someone here can answer a few of my questions...

Are there certain camps designated that allow a generator and PA system to run 24hrs?

Is there a maximum Wattage you can have on your system? generator?

Also, do generators have to have any noise restriction on them?

Also, does anyone have ANY precautionary measures to protect sensitive equipment from this funky silica stuff I hear can be so detrimental? I could probably find the answer to that somewhere else, just thought another DJ may have good advice.

From what I've been told, you can pretty much do whatever you want, but I just don't want to step on any toes. Thanks in advance.

-Niko

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:39 pm

Large scale sound camps are placed on the outer streets, two and ten o'clock. Camps in the middle of the city, ... ah, 300 watts of sound is the norm max. There are quieter areas, such as near Hushville and Kidsville and maybe even AEZ, blasting near those camps is poor etiquette. No restrictions on gennies, but it is neighborly to build a baffle box. And no, it is a common misconception that you can do anything you like. it only feels that way, there's boundaries. Odd ones, but they exist.

Lots of advice on the boards if you search. A random sampling, complete with snarky eplaya attitude. Don't let it get to you, we call it tough love.

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=16326

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=7437

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=7269

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=21090

from the main site:

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... s.html#top

Sound
The playa is a natural amplifier and it doesn't take much to produce a large amount of sound. Bass travels multi-directionally and cannot be effectively contained with any structures. This gives "sound" as an art form an unfair advantage over other art forms. Burning Man is dedicated to radical self-expression, but it is also dedicated to creating community. This means we all must find a way to get along with our neighbors. Our past history has led us to this point where we MUST give guidelines on amplification and limit space for this sort of art. Sound Policy:

The following four rules make up our basic sound policy:

1. Neighbors should talk to one another when sound becomes problem and try to resolve the issue through direct communication.
2. Large-scale sound installations MUST be located along the ends of our city. They may express themselves unless community complaints persist.
3. A maximum power amplification of 300 watts is permitted behind this Large Scale Sound Art Zone in greater Black Rock City.
4. Any complaints about excessive sound will become the concern of the Black Rock Rangers. Concerns about excessive sound can result in:

a) volume check and mediation between camps,
b) volume check and a final warning on complaints,
c) the disabling of equipment.

Loud vs. Quiet
Again this year we will have no "loud" and "quiet" sides of the city. These are relative terms, and they set up expectations that may be impossible to meet. These terms create infinite gray areas regarding what is perceived to be "loud" or "quiet," and this results in difficult negotiations between neighbors.

Large Scale Sound Art
All large-scale sound systems will be located in the Large-Scale Sound Art Zone. Like all theme camps, these camps will be encouraged to be as creative and interactive as possible. The primary rule is that all speakers MUST be turned away from greater Black Rock City toward the open playa at all times. The deadline for large-sound art installations is first-come, first-served, so when these spots are filled, no more sound systems will be permitted within Black Rock City.

Sound Complaints
If you believe your neighbor's sound is too loud and you are not able to effectively negotiate a solution, you may report this to a Black Rock Ranger station or directly to a Black Rock Ranger. (Please do not mistake a BLM Ranger for our own). Black Rock Ranger Stations are located at both Outposts and in Center Camp. A complaint should contain:

* The exact SOURCE of the sound. (Vague reports will result in no action or ineffective action.)
* The exact TIME of the disturbance. (Vague reports will result in no action or ineffective action). Please report problems when they happen, although reports filed the next day can be useful with persistent problem camps. We will not take action on issues of taste.

As a community, we need to work together to keep sound at desirable levels. This means that everyone involved is personally responsible for how they affect everyone else's experience. If your neighbor believes your sound is too loud, you must work with them to find an acceptable volume. You will need to check in with those that you are camped near to find out what other events are planned and work with them to create a schedule. With these actions you should be able to handle all of your own sound issues. If everyone works together there will be no need for Black Rock Rangers to monitor sound. Please pass this information around to other participants in your theme camp or village and to those that are not planning on being listed on the map. A community effort is need to pull this off.

househead805 · Post by **househead805** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:45 pm

Ah, and there is everything I needed to know, thank you! 300W is kinda weak though... ppl really regulate that?

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:47 pm

Yes. Especially pissed off people at six or seven in the morning.

That's prime sleeping time!

househead805 · Post by **househead805** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:13 pm

true, so I guess if we want to rock a big system, we have to go by the LSSA. But then there it seems like we'd be drowned out by the huge sound installations... this seems tricky. Maybe best to leave it all at home and go enjoy everyone else's music. that sounds a whole lot easier (and cheaper) anyway.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:59 pm

Unless your playing Johnny Cash while building the city.....

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:02 am

Or damn near ANYTHING but more "house", trance, techno, whatever.
Not that I don't like hearing that at BM, I kinda' do.
But jeez, it seems that's ALL anyone wants to play! By the time the man burns I'm almost ready to listen to the Partridge Family.

My mutant boat runs right at the max allowed 300 watts amplifier power, and is a house=free zone. From it emits big band, swing, surf, rock & roll, and rockabilly.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:00 am

Perhaps if this is your first year, you might want to simply check things out. You're right, it is easier and cheaper that way.

The "crew" who have been a few times, they should know all this already. Makes me wonder why they do not. Just a thought.

Dato · Post by **Dato** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:59 am

I'm gonna chime in with a bit of a disagreement. :p

The 300w rule is a bit bogus, and not really enforced. I've had more than double that for years, and camp dead smack in the middle of the city.

The rule I follow, is be respectful to your neighbors. There are definitely times in the day when we have big parties and the music is BLASTING, and there are definitely quiet times. We never blast music in the wee hours of the night. We also always mix up the styles and genres, and not a year has gone by without the neighbors from all over the block stopping by and thanking us for the tunes.

What I'm saying is, bring your sound, but respect the folks around you.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:56 pm

.. but be prepared in case this is the year they decide to enforce more strictly.

Token · Post by **Token** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:05 pm

Wasn't the rules changed to 90 dBA at street or some such so that a SPL meter can be used before power cables get cut?

I thought I read that somewhere ...

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:55 pm

There were threads last year about a db limit, but I'm not sure how strictly it was enforced. In the end it usually comes down to how much you piss off your neighbors and how active they are in complaining to you and to rangers. Here are some simple ways to piss off your neighbors:

Bring a cheap-ass loud generator and place it next to your neighbor's tents with a barrier between it and YOUR camp, but not between it and their tents. Run this generator and your sound system 24/7. Happened to me the year before last.

Play the music loudly into the early morning. Some people like to sleep.

Play the music loudly all day even though nobody but the DJ is actually listening to it. A raging party is good fun, a guy cranking crappy music because he can is annoying.

Play the same repetetive music all day all friggin week. Happened to me several years.

So... if you want to be able to play music loud, get a good quiet generator. In addition to being quiet they're often more efficient, more reliable, and provide cleaner power which will protect your gear. Play music that other people might actually want to hear, and at volumes approptiate to the situation rather than as loud as possible as long as possible.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu May 01, 2008 1:44 am

Dork: EXACTLY! Me too, to everything you said.

The watt-limit thing is pretty useless... actually it's COMPLETELY FUCKING useless! First of all, claimed power output on an amp means little. What it actually puts out depends on speaker impedance, and whether the power claim is peak or RMS and whether it's measured at .005% distortion or 50% distortion! 12-volt mobile amps are notorious for optimistic power claims achieved by manipulating these things.
And speaker efficiency also affects things.
So, one guy could be running a "600 watt" system, and not be half as loud as the next guy with a "300 watt" system.

A dBA measurement is the only way to really set a rule.

But it really boils down to not being inconsiderate.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:21 am

It's not manipulation.
It's called lying.
There is no such thing as peak wattage.
There is no such thing as rms wattage without a distortion measurement.

My opinion is that 300 watts is ridiculously high in normal areas, especially considering how well sound carries out there.
Eric Clapton has played concerts using less power.
I bet I could take a 25 watt amp out there, distort the signal and have people a hundred feet away going out of their minds in a short time.

I run my home system at under 1 watt and it will reach below 20 hertz.
If you have accurate sound, you don't need moron volume levels.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:59 am

whatever...
[youtube][/youtube]

ragabashpup · Post by **ragabashpup** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:15 pm

Oh Marty will never learn.

I would rather hear good music than loud music but that is my personal opinion.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu May 01, 2008 2:52 pm

"you pussies come to Burning Man to SLEEP?

Get some EAR PLUGS!

Just pick up your camp and MOVE!!!"

These are the assinine responses Dork's reasonable comments are likely to draw in the near future. All of them crap responses. Like George Carlin said, almost all the 10 Commandments could be reduced to just one..."respect your neighbor."

Fecker · Post by **Fecker** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:24 pm

[quote="househead805"]Hello all, I am new to BM but will be cruising with a crew who has been a few times. Several of us are House DJ's and want to bring our own system this year. I poked around the site but could not find any clear regulations on noise output. Hopefully someone here can answer a few of my questions...

Are there certain camps designated that allow a generator and PA system to run 24hrs?

Is there a maximum Wattage you can have on your system? generator?

Also, do generators have to have any noise restriction on them?

Also, does anyone have ANY precautionary measures to protect sensitive equipment from this funky silica stuff I hear can be so detrimental? I could probably find the answer to that somewhere else, just thought another DJ may have good advice.

From what I've been told, you can pretty much do whatever you want, but I just don't want to step on any toes. Thanks in advance.

-Niko[/quote]

I'm also a first timer at this shindig.
I'm Irish, DJ Tech-House and live in Sydney Australia. Bring your system mate, you'll be itching to play the decks once you see all the other soundsystems. If I lived in the states i would defo. bring a sound system. No question.
Like a lot of people are saying here, as long as you respect the neighbours then you'll be fine. I would think most people will have ear plugs. It a festival FFS! :)

What do folks expect!??? Music is a big part of this event so people should be prepared I reckon.

Post by **AntiM** » Thu May 08, 2008 6:19 am

Ahem. Most people do have earplugs, but when it gets to be six in the morning and the bass is still pounding through the ground into your bones because you're sleeping on the ground, and no one is dancing because they're all trying to catch some morning shut eye except for the one dj who's too cranked to sleep ... well, it gets old. Fast. Earplugs only do so much.

The Golden Rule of Burning Man is "Don't be a Dick."

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:03 am

try ambien......mix it with a little tylenol pm and a shot of warm vodka...

you'll sleep thru thumpy-thumpy even if you're cuddled up on top of a ten foot tall woofer.

of course, your innards may be re-arranged by the sonic blast but hey, if you got some kidney stones or something of that nature, it's quite possible that they will be gone when you awake.

homeopathic medecine eat your heart out...

(ps...300 watts? are you fucking kidding me?.....my god we spewed out 300 times that.....and indeed , as antiM pointed out, it does indeed shake the fucking ground you stand on.....it is an experience non-pareil)

Post by **AntiM** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:05 am

I'll stick with Lortabs and rum, thanks.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:11 am

captain morgan? as in Guten Morgan?

Post by **AntiM** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:34 am

Hmmm, Bacardi Ciclon or Cruzan Blackstrap.

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:03 am

Captain Morgan in a face plant on his float:

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:15 am

AntiM wrote:"Don't be a Dick."

equals "Respect your neighbors"

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:16 am

phil wrote:Captain Morgan in a face plant on his float:

Looks a lot like TITWI after a night out with his wonderful wife PM......
exhaustion...

BoxaRox · Post by **BoxaRox** » Fri May 09, 2008 7:26 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
AntiM wrote:"Don't be a Dick."
equals "Respect your neighbors"

yes, you're supposed to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

You go first. then it's my turn.

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