sustainable burning man?

[Ivy]

Yes, I think we need some radical changes to keep BM alive.

Shit, they tried to change the colock system to degrees and everyone was in a tizzy...god forbid they alter the city structure.

For the record, I have nothing against regional burnns/events/etc. Quite the opposite. I love connecting with burners year round. Call me childish or naive, but one of the reasons BM is special to me is becuase it's not year-round. The anticipation and planning and svaing all year are part of the whole experience. It's like Christmas, only better.

Maybe that should be my tag line: "Burning Man: It's the new Christmas!"

[s5]

the addition of a structured road system actually decreased my enjoyment of burning man more than any of the other changes did.

[Tristan]

Shit, they tried to change the colock system to degrees and everyone was in a tizzy...god forbid they alter the city structure.

Why not make the city square for a change ? (i.e. roman style)

Or pentagonal ?

Or dispersed ? (i.e. a constellation of random villages)

[Deanne Bunny]

Lets do it, the sustainable thing is the next step in the art/scifi world, lets make it happen

[Iago]

Maybe that should be my tag line: "Burning Man: It's the new Christmas!"

Ivy, I think it was back in 98-99 that I saw:
"Burning Man: America's new Holiday"

[doom]

Doing more "sustainable" activities sounds like a good idea, but why does
this have anything to do with Burning Man? If you want to experiment
with alternative energy, wouldn't it make more sense to do this at home,
than at a week-long event in the middle of nowhere?

[Isotopia]

Doom, please stop making sense.

[PJ]

Why not make the city square for a change ?

Like Salt Lake City? Including the polygamy?

OK.

[PJ]

...one of the reasons BM is special to me is becuase it's not year-round. The anticipation and planning and saving all year are part of the whole experience.

If anybody ever asks, that'll be my explanation for never having sex.

[Lydia Love]

Like Salt Lake City?

eeeeeew

[Liverace]

The name "biodiesel" makes it sound eco-friendly and the independent nature of the supply chain is appealing, but it offers no improvement in tailpipe emissions and its lower energy content means fewer mpg (or kWpg). All the good intentions in the world cannot countermand the laws of stoichiometry and thermodynamics.

Above and beyond that, have you ever gotten a whiff of the burnt feces aroma that biodiesel vehicles emit? If BRC were powered by biodiesel burners would be taking refuge in the porta-johns! Besides, isn't crude oil the original "biodiesel?"

If you want clean, burn gasoline; the exhaust from a gas engine meeting ULEV standards often contains less HC, NOx, ozone, and particulate pollution than the surrounding air on a "Spare the Air" day.

For a couple of years now I've had a vision of building a human-powered generator camp in BRC, with an array of giant flywheels linked to a vast playground of funky multi-person treadmills, human-sized hamster wheels, various cycles, etc. This playground would capture the human energy of Burning Man in kinetic form, to be redistributed as electricity throughout the city. I guarantee our human "fuel" would emit more CO2 and methane than equivalent fossil fuel generators would and by the 3rd day our camp would smell worse than any diesel generator, but we'd have WAY more fun and there would be something spiritually rewarding about literalizing the metaphor of spreading our energy throughout the city.

[Reed B]

The first poster here, Cinnamontwist, mentions KPFK's Erik Davis suggesting a critical juncture for Burning Man -- that it not get too routine and predictable (i.e., vanillification), the implication being that it would lose its identity and value.

1) What is the identity and value of Burning Man?

To me, there is a unique camaraderie and practice of sharing, teamwork, giving (SHARING) combined with encouragement and acceptance of personal expression and freedom (FREEDOM) that makes Burning Man so unique. Except that the degree SHARING and FREEDOM are far more so than in everyday life, Burning Man is just a group camp in the desert. As a first time Burner it seemed palpable that SHARING and FREEDOM were far greater at Burning Man, since:

- people often wore little clothes (illegal in most places), showing a huge degree of participation and acceptance of self-expression (FREEDOM). To me, the implication for a great sense of personal freedom was the main import of all the nudity -- granted that as humans, we are attracted sensually, and those expressing themselves with nudity were giving all the rest of us some eye candy of varying degrees of tastiness.

- people frequently went out of their way to share something with another, far more than in regular life. Starting at the entrance with the "welcome home" to the gifts from strangers, I noticed many things were shared. I also bet that those people wearing little clothes had much more shared with them (they were sharing eye candy with others, and others reciprocated with other gifts).

Without the greater SHARING and FREEDOM, Burning Man would lose its spice. Personally, I don't think the question is whether or not Burning Man must go through another critical stage from 30,000 to 35,000 or something, because I don't see the fundamentals of the nudity and the sharing changing as long as the general environment and goals remain the same. I think there is already a great variety among those that attend -- some get naked and share and some don't. For the latter it is probably more a big party, for the former it is a big party plus to some degree an exploration of a greater sense of connection with others, and a greater sense of individuality at the same time. Isn't it marvelous that we can both be more different/individual AND connected with others at an invent that celebrates individual expression?

2) Is it possible that earth's evoluationaries may be present at BRC?

I think that this is the real question -- not does BRC need to pass through a critical stage, but how will the growth of Burning Man support those individuals who will change society? How will those individuals who will change society view Burning Man? Will it be a resource of like minded folks to them? A place of experimentation? A big party with lots of people enjoying sharing and freedom, but nobody helping out the visionaries? I think this is a really interesting question, because I think the vibes that Burning Man has attached itself to are evolutionary vibes (in my estimation): sharing and freedom.

Society has continually evolved to greater and greater degrees of sharing and freedom (whether in the winning of commercialism over communism, the former of which actually encouraged greater sharing by permitting a freer hand in industrious affairs; or in the progress from physical slavery to merely economic slavery of various forms). Society will continue to so evolve, I believe, but only by the efforts of those able to see and develop the future!

Who here is up for the challenge? Who is visionary? Who wishes to support new visions? I believe we all can be visionary according to our positions. Each of us can smile more. A smile is sharing joy, and that is visionary. What about those of us in artistic, scientific, or civil servant positions? Can we bring a little black rock to these positions? Or a lot?

Personally, I found even greater appreciation for diversity at Burning Man, as well as confirmation of many perspectives I had grown to about people and society. I also had the opportunity to experiment with my own self expression freely, and to see how that was felt by others. I made great new friends dancing until dawn. Most importantly, I DID see that others also were looking for deeper meanings to Burning Man and life in general there.

Apologies for a long post, but if you too are searching for the deeper meanings and are enjoying planning something that could never be done in the desert but that could use the helpful thoughts or other types of support from others, wouldn't the best gift from such a burner to another such burner be help with a world changing project?

I will now go and post another topic "World Changing Projects" -- it seems like there should be some folks that would appreciate or benefit from this. I'd be one maybe...

May each of your steps be blessed without dehydration, and with sufficient sleep!

Reed

[Deanne Bunny]

some people express themselves artistically through physics, who are you to say "art" is limited to something painted, sculpted, etc...before you start a huge debate whether or not biodiesel is better than um....biodiesel, ( hempseed oil doesn't leave a poo smell) and just think about intigrating nature with technology, sustainabilitiy to lower ticket prices...etc...saving money, isn't that a good motivatior?
xoxo
Bun

[PJ]

Biodiesel made from old fast food restaurant oil results in exhaust that smells of french fries.

Rapeseed oil leaves an engine so clean inside it looks like it was overhauled and sent straight to a museum.

YMMV.

[Zane5100]

Anybody know of a good way of de-alkilinizing the playa?... Just enough to grow some stuff.

That's easy: add acid and ship in lots of water. Since there's almost no organic matter in the soil you'll have to haul in and add lots of that too, plus fertilizer. And because the Playa is made of dust with very small and uniform particle diameters you'll need to ship an enormous quantity of soil in to mix with it or the plants' roots will clog.

Might be easier and more cost-effective to farm someplace else, where plants can grow.

And you thought dumping sewage was a pesky issue with the BLM and those rabid conservationists...

[prophet]

> Thanks Tristan! For taking my wacko vision to its ultimate absurdist limit.

If you think about it, we're getting closer and closer from having a permanent event.

Already the city's map/blue-print is basically frozen, the same circular city every year, the same central cafe location and architecture, the same man at the same place on the playa, much of the same art camps on esplanade, now a temple always at the same location, always burning the next day after the man.

Looks like all that becomes more and more predictable, don't you think ?

Yes, I think we need some radical changes to keep BM alive.

I had a dream the other night that the burns happened in the open area outside the outer streets...is it an omen?

[precipitate]

> Honestly, I wish Black Rock City were a year-round thing, and not just a
> week long party. I'd prefer living there myself.

Really? In what way do you think life as it exists in BRC is sustainable?

I'm not saying don't bring some of the things that are different there back
home with you, but there's no way that lifestyle could last longer than a
week or two.

Think about it. You're living in temporary groups of people, often thrown
together at the last minute. You can stand each other for a week, but
beyond that you'll have to deal with the day-to-day tensions of just living
life. That requires a lot of interpersonal interaction and compromise that
wouldn't permit the "Burning Man Spirit" that gets touted by first-year
returnees. That feeling of, "Wow, these people understand me and they
*like* me" is a lot harder to maintain if you have non-trivial and
non-superficial relationships. I camp with people I genuinely like, but fuck
if I want to live with them all year long.

Injecting work and money into that lifestyle would destroy it utterly. The
idea of a commerce-free week (of course preceded and followed by
ultra-commerce in preparation) is nice. But a commerce-free life isn't a
realistic goal. Or maybe it is, go find some arable land somewhere, get
$100K, and start your own commune. But it ain't going to run like Burning
Man.

Take the things you learn there and bring them home. But I don't think
trying to bring the whole experience home would result in something you
actually wanted to do 365 days a year.

[tbone]

I camp with people I genuinely like, but fuck if I want to live with them all year long.

Well then just fuck you you big meanie.

[Taniwha]

- a cellular tower, so that cellphones will work on the playa.

and you think you jest ... sat phones work out there (we use them all the time for rocket launches - saves driving back to Bruno's to call the FAA).

WiFi was up and running on the playa this year (I avoided reading mail like the plague).

And I'm told there's a good chance that some cell phones will work next year (it's apparently common practice to colocate a small cell site in the State fire radio repeaters and I hear there's a new one going in in the area).

Of course you can simply turn off your cell phone when you leave the freeway. And besides, the first time I find myself in the porta-potty line behind someone talking to his/her broker I'm a-building a jammer ...

- bringing water and electric hook-ups to RV's (no more buzzing generators!)

Oh - there's running water ... you just need to wait until December ....

[precipitate]

> you big meanie.

<mikey voice>
Look at me, I'm tbone, I want to live in a redneck commune with all my
friends! We can build cars, and shoot guns, and drink beer!
</mikey voice>

Sure, that sounds fun and all, but you're telling me you want to see trey's
ass every morning? I'm thinking it's gonna have to be a
reeeeeeeeeally big ranch. But, you know, if it's big enough I'll
consider it.

[judlew]

That's right, Cinnamon! You *never* came to the AEZ to visit me! And I never came to Tribal Harmonix camp, either, much as I love them, because I was too busy tweaking my solar-powered scooters and bigg-ass solar generator.

Okay, it wasn't that big ass. But it was big enough. And I have taken it home, and I'm charging batteries and playing music outside on it. It's cool! The scooters ran great until dust clogged the throttles, which had nothing to do with the solar power on them, and everything to do with cheap parts.

The whole project I did this year was expensive and time-consuming and a lot of work. I had helpful and supportive friends around me, one of whom knew a lot about wiring and construction to set things up efficiently. And I was practicing skills I wanted to learn. I wouldn't expect the whole playa to work this way, but having done it once I could do it better next year.

To me right now, Burning Man is a personal experiment in living differently and living well. In being more open to people, in redefining who I am in the world (part of the reason I'm more interested in interacting with strangers there than I am hanging with old friends) and in reducing my negative impact on the world by living more simply and ecologically minded. But it's an utterly personal challenge; in 2005 I may be after something different.

All this talk about BMan's identity assumes it's a monolith -- that what it is for Erik or Mark is what it is for everyone. And it's just not really true. The event is different for me every year, and it's different for each person, too. If you skip a year or two, as I did, the whole thing becomes magic again.

And if you want to make it sustainable, come to the AEZ (www.ae-zone.org), where you'll find a whole bunch of generous-spirited smart and fun people overjoyed to teach everyone how to set up a solar generator (or wind gennie, or gray-water recycler) on the playa. I had a really great time with those folks, and it renewed the event for me.

Thanks for starting this thread, Mr. Learning Party. xoxoxo

[PJ]

it's gonna have to be a reeeeeeeeeally big ranch. But, you know, if it's big enough I'll consider it.

Can I drive the tractors? I have experience and everything.

[jolly roger]

My first post on this forum, so please excuse poor form.

Disclaimer: I'm the Mayor of the Alternative Energy Zone Village, so I am rather biased toward alt energy solutions.

I think it would be terrible if BMorg or the arts foundation or any group started to pay for the AEZ. Part of how (and why) we work as a village is that people join to learn about the alternatives. And they stay because they find something that makes sense to them. To mandate something at black rock sounds very dreary to me. And doomed to failure from the start. Each year we have several very excited folks announcing that the AEZ should (that terrible word) "Tell BMorg how to make everything wind&solar", and we should make everyone stop using their gennies. And we should all get involved with the anti-nuke coalition.

Bah, I think people come to Burning Man to do what they want to do. (And very much NOT what they are ordered to do)
We do have a long-term goal that IS part of the AEZ. To provide a big enough demonstration of "way cool stuff run off solar/wind power" that a few gennie folks stand up and say, "wow, now THAT is something I want to try." We are finally big enough that I think we may put on a big thing next year.
A big element with alt energy is conservation; figuring out how to creatively use less power to get the same effect.
I personnaly do not like gennies, but that is just my opinion. I live in LA and hear enough background drone all the time, I don't need it on-playa.
People will only switch away when they see something that looks better (to them). I hope we continue to display things that others find interesting.

jolly roger
ps: we expect to have a build-your-own blinky light class next year

[ophelia]

I'm pondering how exactly art creates community? It seems that "art" is central to the BM spirit/philosophy/whatever, given the existence of the Black Rock Arts Foundation. Why is this? I guess I wonder this whenever I see something that, in my judgement, just seems like weirdness for weirdness' sake (which may be legit enough...)

Also, the emphasis on more regionality implies that there is something to foster/export. What is it, if not the dreaded "spirit of burning man"?

i don't know... just thinking.

[jolly roger]

two thoughts.

1. there are a hell of a lot of people writing a LOT of thinking in here. very nice.

2. My view of Burning man is that it is like a therapist's office. You are unhappy about some part of your life, so you go to this place where the rules are different, and you can do things (and think thoughts) that you would not feel safe doing (thinking) outside the therapist's office.

I know that everyone has different expectations and reasons for going to Burning Man; and I believe you could group most of those reasons into, "This is a place where I can stretch and try things I never did before".

jolly roger

[tbone]

Bah, I think people come to Burning Man to do what they want to do. (And very much NOT what they are ordered to do)
We do have a long-term goal that IS part of the AEZ. To provide a big enough demonstration of "way cool stuff run off solar/wind power" that a few gennie folks stand up and say, "wow, now THAT is something I want to try." We are finally big enough that I think we may put on a big thing next year.

I just gained a huge chunk of respect for you and your village. Far too frequently people who have discovered a "better way" of doing something seem hell bent on shoving it down everybody elses' throat. Thanks for not doing that.

One of my favorite project was a windmill a friend made. He laminated blades, built a tower and built every bit of it by hand, except for the actual generating unit. He charged a bunch of 12v deep cycle batteries that ran a pump for the gigsville showers - way back in '98.

He hates generators, but is also a welder. What to do?

[Zane5100]

two thoughts.

1. there are a hell of a lot of people writing a LOT of thinking in here. very nice.

2. My view of Burning man is that it is like a therapist's office. You are unhappy about some part of your life, so you go to this place where the rules are different, and you can do things (and think thoughts) that you would not feel safe doing (thinking) outside the therapist's office.

I know that everyone has different expectations and reasons for going to Burning Man; and I believe you could group most of those reasons into, "This is a place where I can stretch and try things I never did before".

jolly roger

I agree with you.

[judlew]

Having camped in the AEZ for the first time this year I can testify that the place was utterly free of preachiness or doctrine or "you shoulds." Other than the "no stinky generator" rule, the whole spirit was one of play and opportunity, not judgment or hyperresponsibility. It was powerful. I learned a ton. And I got a lot of help from people this year (thanks Roger!), but next year I'll be able to give it back.

[blyslv]

Result: my quiet little ginny gave me twice the power, weighed half as much, fuel included, and took up less than one fourth of the volume (probably much less) and so was far easier to transport.

But don't forget that many of the components in his 500 watt system may not have been mass produced, like the generators. Like any new technologies, the costs will come down.

Hmmm rereading what I quoted above I realized that canimot wasn't talking about price... never mind.

[diane o'thirst]

The meme is already there: all we need to do is promulgate it and let it spread. Solar lanterns are pretty ubiquitous because #1) They're cheap, #2) They're readily available, #3) They're convenient. I had twelve of them this year, just set 'em in the sun, they come on at dusk, and stay on until dawn. I used 'em for everything from bedside lamp to camp definition to bicycle illumination to flashlight, with enough to spare as camp illuminators. Easiest thing on the Playa and eminently decoratable besides.

That aside...

I'm looking to go 100% solar next year. There are solar panels that feed your car or deep cell battery, solar panels for the laptop, solar units that recharge NiCad batteries, even solar fountains in several flavours. How's that for dressing up your campsite?