Breathing Masks/Respirators and Lip Balm

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:33 am

temp wise 03 was very mild. In the beginning of the week it was actually occasionally cool in the afternoon. I would say dust was about average. 02 was SO clean. Very little dust. Unimpeachable conditions.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:23 pm

I was thinking about this thread since yesterday and I have come up with a couple of thoughts.

If it were not for all of the people and their junk an alkali flat is probably one of the safest places to camp. It would also be incredibly boring.

There are no:
Bugs to bite, sting or suck your blood
Animals that want to eat your food, and maybe fight you for it
Holes to fall into or cliffs to fall off of
Snakes to use you as a heating pad or for you to step on or otherwise irritate
Rivers or streams to overflow
And only the terminally stupid could get lost.

What are left are the same dangers you would face on any summer camping trip; exception, dust can be dangerous if you have respiratory problems.

Dehydration, sun/heat stroke and hypothermia
All of these things could happen no matter where Burning Man was held. This is a camping trip that lasts a week, includes all kinds of wonderful distractions, things to do, late nights, constant stimulus and is generally populated by people who are rarely exposed to the elements for days on end. That said I will admit that camping can be a bit more dangerous in a high altitude alkali flat than other places for those who are not used to altitude, very dry air and rapidly falling temperatures. At higher altitudes your body loses water easier and in the dry air you don't realize how much you are sweating. Note: I have actually seen a lot more and much more serious problems with heat in here in Virginia than I ever did in the high desert (11 years West Texas/New Mexico/Arizona, 24 years Virginia). As you move into dehydration your judgment will start to suffer. Bad judgment can lead you to heat stroke or hypothermia. Hypothermia can be a problem as soon as the temps start dropping and when people don?t look after themselves, the smaller the person the sooner it can happen. If you have ever started shivering or seen someone else shiver on the Playa you seeing the down slope of hypothermia. Luckily, most people start looking for warmth when the shivering starts. In 02 I adopted a young woman for a few hours who was lost, near naked and freezing. I fired up the heater, gave her a sweatshirt, hot coco and after she stopped shivering delivered her to a moderately panicked camp somewhere in the back of beyond. Note to the curious, I tend to avoid even flirting with women 20+ years my junior. Note to women 31+, I am a nice enough without being stupid about it and I almost always have hot coco and sometimes chocolate.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:05 pm

tonka wrote:Question...

Whats all this about breathing masks, goggles and respirators?
Is it really that dusty out there?
ive never been in that area ever so i have absolutely no clue...
someone explain to me please in small words ill understand.

Yes. It is THAT dusty. As in "Where the fuck is my hand?!?" dusty. On a typical afternoon (for the last 3 yrs anyway) there will be 35 mph windstorms and dust devils that rip through, causing all the dusty dirt that people have been driving/walking on all morning to suddenly be airborne. 10 ft visability is pretty much a normal state of life. Wear SOMETHING over your face or you could come down with a bad case of Playa Lung. This BTW is not good, and can cause one to need to stay inside (or go to Reno!) until it clears up.

My own experience is to keep 1 yard of unbleached muslin around my neck like a kerchief, or tied to my butt-pack AT ALL TIMES while out there. This way, if a dirt-storm does come, I just wrap it around my face and keep on going.
Thousands of years of technology can't be too far off base, and I don't like the idea of breathing through fiberglass (or whatever those ugly paper masks are made of). One yard is about a dollar at your neighborhood fabric store, and it will last forever. It also serves as something to drape over your face when you're trying to sleep during a storm.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:15 pm

unjonharley wrote:03 was a walk on the beach. Two dust devils come through. The brown out only lasted a few. I never put up the side walls. 01 we spent most of the time covered up. The brown outs came every few min. Some one posted a dust devil on another thread.

Let us not forget 1999, where there was a 75 mph windstorm that lasted over 24 hrs, petering down to 35 mph on Tuesday.

2001 was a BAD year for dust, because the moisture level on the Playa was low (IOW: a dry summer). We had a thin crust over 3 inches of talc.

ronski · Post by **ronski** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:23 pm

These observations about how the playa is totally flat and full of nothing, not a rock or tree or bug or whatever....

to apply an analogy, it's almost like being on a a big empty canvas.

I wonder if anyone's ever thought of holding an art event there.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:45 pm

> And only the terminally stupid could get lost.
That's FUNNY! I get lost every fucking year at least once. I've been to 5 Burns, work all over the City during the day, but when night falls (and I'm wreaked, tired, intoxicated, or just disoriented) I get SO FUCKING LOST.

Damn funny. One day into the 2000 Event, after my day shift was over, it got dark, and I got lost. I had to call on the Ranger radio to have Pirate pick me up at a pottie cluster, and walk me to Thermal Shock.

(Stop giggling Badger, it's not ThAT funny)

You would not believe how many times Rangers get to help lost participants.

III · Post by **III** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:30 pm

>>It would also be incredibly boring.

depends on the person, i spose. i find camping out there in late fall early spring to be even more exciting than burning man. there aren't all those people to get in the way of the subtle nuances of mother nature.

III · Post by **III** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:31 pm

>>would not believe how many times Rangers get to help lost participants.

sure i would. but i also know how many terminally stupid people are out there, too...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:56 pm

Silver wrote:If it were not for all of the people and their junk an alkali flat is probably one of the safest places to camp.

Unless you get run over in the dark. It happens.

It would also be incredibly boring.

That's a highly subjective assessment. The months before and/or after may be less boring than the event, in my experience.

There are no:
Bugs to bite, sting or suck your blood
Animals that want to eat your food, and maybe fight you for it
Holes to fall into or cliffs to fall off of
Snakes to use you as a heating pad or for you to step on or otherwise irritate
Rivers or streams to overflow
And only the terminally stupid could get lost.

I've encountered horseflies, two-inch parasitic wasps, scorpions, black widows, coyotes, various rodents, holes left by errant "artists", bull snakes and other reptiles, and overflow from the Quinn River at the north end of the playa flowing or blowing many miles south -- as well as Code 48 calls re: those who should have known whether those lights in the distance were from Gerlach or Sulphur, but were too (albeit stupidly) drunk to tell. YMMV.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:00 pm

I stand by my original statement, if you were camping alone on the flat or just about any flat and you got lost you are pretty damn stupid. You should be able to see a singleton tent and car for miles. I have actually been on only 3 flats but have seen dozens and they were all surrounded by mountains of one sort or another and that makes it easy to triangulate your position and if you start wandering around without noticing where you start and keeping track of where you are; well see above. The same goes for camping alone, getting drunk or high and wandering off.

I will bow to the voice of experience about critters; my statement was based on personal experience. Other than one bird and 2 bugs at Burning Man the only animal I ever saw on a flat was a unhappy and lost looking cow standing on a flat near a road in Arizona.

As far as getting lost at Burning Man goes, I don't get lost easy but that is because I automatically keep track of where I am in relation to landmarks, the Man, the Temple, tall installations and the mountains. I was surprised at the number of people that I came across who had no idea where they were and where their camp was. I did have trouble on Sunday night after the temple burn and the only reason I did not get lost then was luck.

Saying that camping on a flat would be boring is totally subjective. I actually like places that are a bit more threatening than I preceive flats to be. I lived in El Paso at one time and regularly wandered off into the mountains by myself. I also used to go into the Gila Wilderness and the mountains in California. Here on the East Coast you really have to work on getting out and away.

III · Post by **III** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:47 pm

>>You should be able to see a singleton tent and car for miles

you'd think, but it turns out that once you're out to a mile away, those things are practically impossible to spot, especially if you have heat layers that cause mirages. and triangulation *should* be able to get you within a 1/4 mile of where you want to be, but i've seen rangers be a couple of miles off when trying that technique.

it's a good skill to have, and i've yet to get lost out there, either during the chaos of the event, or in the middle of a moonless night in the middle of spring. but i also know that most people aren't used to figuring out how to know where they are, and not having those habits can make it intimidating.

nick · Post by **nick** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:08 pm

At the risk of drifting this thread back to it's beginings and to respond to Unjohn's post: Any "N95" level particle mask, like the 3M one's I mentioned in my earlier post, will definitely filter out playa dust -- but of course the seal against your face makes a difference...

Some of you tough burners may foreswear masks, but for this burner I find them invaluable -- especially when building domes and other projects.

For people who have never been to the Playa, IMHO, it would be irresponsible not to bring *some* kind of dust mask or face protection. Bandanas will work (wet them down first) but I think dust masks are better. And if you find you don't need it, more power (and dust!) too ya!

Another alternative to dust masks, which do get chewed up and have to be tossed after a few days, are these products by the British company Respro... A friend of mine bought the "Bandit" mask, which is a bandana-like product with a charcoal filter sandwiched between the fabric -- works great and lasts for at least 6 months:

http://www.respro.com/urbancommuting_walking.php

I'm sure some folks will think this is overkill, but again I say Be Prepared and Be Happy! (And I also say, Don't come to my camp begging for masks!)

;>

-Nick

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:58 pm

So you want to use a partical mask. They will keep out every thing except the smallest partical. It's the little one that are fine enough to reach your lungs. I would want to catch the large one with my spit and snot. That way the smaller one are attracted to the larger wet gobs. Lub up the nose keeps it runing better. Wash your mouth with a little swig before taking a big slog of water. If your a mouth breather your shit out of luck. Put a sock in it.

nick · Post by **nick** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:33 pm

Hmmm... Well I don't *want* to use anything! But, for me at least, I find wearing a mask when it is dusty much better than a sock ;> -- But as I said, your mileage may vary...

However, as to your claim that an N95 mask won't keep out playa dust? I don't think that's correct... According to this page:

http://www.preparedness.com/3mn95refamaw.html

The N95 masks filter out 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns -- they recommend them for protection against SARS and TB so methinks they would be fine for dust...

Again, if you have gone out to the playa and don't find a need for masks -- hey, that's one less resource to consume (and cost to pay for) but for NEWBIES, I would highly recommend them.

Yours,

-nick-

themom · Post by **themom** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:31 pm

Last year (03) was my first on the playa. The dust storms and white outs were few and short lived. I carried regular 'painter's masks' but did not use them. I did however, forget to bring lip balm. I went barefoot and my feet did not suffer, but after three days, my lips were like a mummy. someone passed me an AVON 99 cent lip balm and it saved the day. I'm sure Burt's Bee would be the best...but by all means DO NOT FORGET THE LIP BALM. themom

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:00 pm

Nick,

Thanks for the http://www.respro.com/urbancommuting_walking.php site. I already order a couple of styles. I have bad problems with diesel fumes and have to work around diesel vehicles all the time. Maybe I will be able to eat dinner when I get home.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:35 am

For anyone with health issues, if no one else has mentioned it, I'd suggest taking care to pace yourself -- avoid too much activity from noon to late afternoon, which is when it's more hot, windy, and dusty.

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:57 am

Calsur,
I was wondering if you found a local (in the US) supplier for the Respro masks or did you order them right from the company? Also, what was the UK to US currancy price?
I have asthma and these masks look great for helping out with that!
And they look COOL!!

Thanks!
MartianSky

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:50 pm

> they were all surrounded by mountains of one sort or another and that
> makes it easy to triangulate your position

In clear daylight, yeah. Try it at night or in a dust storm.

A friend last year at El Mirage spent the night in someone else's camp after
going out for a night ride and getting completely disoriented in the middle
of the lakebed.

Or me, (first) Saturday night my year five at Burning Man but the first year
there were lanterns extending both directions from the man. I missed that
we'd made more than one circuit (probably whoever spat upon me from
the DPW party above and caused me to move to the side a bit more than
I'd noticed), so when we set out for home we were 180 degrees from
where I thought. It wasn't dangerous, but it was a longer walk than I'd
intended.

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:57 pm

Martiansky,

I ordered an Aero mask, replacement chemical and particulate filter, plus a set of valves. Cost was 57.96 euros. Translates to $74.32 using this currency converter - http://www.xe.com/ucc/

The web site asked if it was UK delivery or overseas. As I live in California, I checked overseas. I provided home address, phone number and email address. At the end of the order I was told I would be contacted.

You now have all the info I do. I will add more posts as info becomes available.

nick · Post by **nick** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:19 am

I sent this as a PM, but for those who are interested, there are several US suppliers (all online) for Respro products that I found using Google's product search engine, Froogle:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=res ... ch+Froogle

As an aside, my friend who ordered directly from Respro last year got excellent service from their UK site.

Breathingly,

-nick-

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:13 am

nick wrote: Bandanas will work (wet them down first)

No don't. Especially in a dust storm. The water will collect the dust so that you're trying to breathe through mud after a while.

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:17 am

stuart wrote:02 was SO clean. Very little dust. Unimpeachable conditions.

Post event the dust was almost lethal to my (asthmatic) sweetie. 8 days on a breathing machine in Reno after a 3 day dust storm. On the day he was discharged the ER doc visited and told him he was surprized that he survived.

edited once for clarity

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:25 pm

BlueBirdPoof wrote:
nick wrote: Bandanas will work (wet them down first)
No don't. Especially in a dust storm. The water will collect the dust so that you're trying to breathe through mud after a while.

Correct-a-mundo Bird!
Do not wet them down. The moisture from breathing through the cloth will create a bit of a swamp-cooler effect, but the amount of moisture on the inside won't matter. Once the dirt-storm passes by, and you want to breath naked air again, just take the cloth off your face and shake the dust out. Trust me, it will be dry instantaneously. Return cloth to your favorite storage orifice (mine migrates from tied around my neck, to tied to my butt-pack).

Bring two cloths, because there could be a time that you want/need to give one to your new friend, or it decides to enjoy the Event w/o you.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:46 pm

III wrote:>>would not believe how many times Rangers get to help lost participants.
sure i would. but i also know how many terminally stupid people are out there, too...

I'm just saying that getting lost isn't a sufficient condition of being terminally stupid. . .
...unless you're calling me stupid, Trey. Which I know you aren't.

Just for the record, since this is a Newbie board, it's ok if you get lost. You're not stupid. Think of it this way: You're not "lost", you're on an unplanned, extended walk to your next Experience.

Stop. Drink water. Find the nearest sign-post, and re-orient yourself (as best as you can). Ask for help. You are among friends.

III · Post by **III** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:06 pm

>>getting lost isn't a sufficient condition of being terminally stupid

nope.

but there *are* a lot of stupid people out there, and being stupid sure doesn't help.

(btw, i apologize for any attitude. staying oriented comes naturally to me, and i can get frustrated when other people (a) don't do it as easily, and (b) allow it to freak them out. there's a story, from '00, where we were out and found a passed out raver on the ground. immediatly, a nameless dpw member got on the radio and started calling for help. when it came time to mention a location, she wouldn't let up on the call button, just repeating "i don't know where i am, i don't know where i am", and not allowing those of us who could have stuck a pin in the map a word in edge wise. i finally grabbed her, told her to send the medics to the promenade halfway out to the man, where i could meet them and bring em in. it would have been nicer to talk them in on the radio, but she was so sure that since she didn't know where anyone was, no one else would either...)

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:34 pm

but there *are* a lot of stupid people out there

do you have feelings about that ratio being more or less so than normal?

III · Post by **III** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:54 pm

given that i'm loathe to lump everyone into one of two big categories, and calculate the ratio, i'll instead just say that the ratio may be about the same, but the extremes on both ends seem to be much more strongly represented on the playa than in the mundane world...

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:14 am

perhaps it is the extremes of the setting that brings out the best and worst. Or perhaps the setting self sorts for the extremes in population.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:15 am

or maybe it is the setting that simply brings those extremes into focus/closer contact.

Breathing Masks/Respirators and Lip Balm

Re: Whats all this about breathing masks?

Dirt storms

Lost in Space

More on masks: Everyone needs at least one!

Particle masks II

Lip Balm

More on respro availability...

Re: More on masks: Everyone needs at least one!

Re: More on masks: Everyone needs at least one!

Getting lost in a dust-storm sucks!