how did you keep knuckleheads off your tall structure?

alienfry · Post by **alienfry** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:02 pm

we're building something awesome and tall and fun, but we're not always going to be open. we're not an espleanade / everything open 24 hrs type of camp.

i saw lots of large scale stuff out there and lots of simple signs that read: "Do Not Climb"

I wonder, how effective were those signs?

What measures did camps take to assert when something was either closed or off-limits?

III · Post by **III** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:51 pm

found out last year that barbed wire works great, but that it pisses off the powers that be.

mebbe electrified fencing? it'll wake em up, but shouldn't leave visible marks for em to go crying to mama about.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:04 pm

III wrote:found out last year that barbed wire works great, but that it pisses off the powers that be.

mebbe electrified fencing? it'll wake em up, but shouldn't leave visible marks for em to go crying to mama about.

I bet this is just the type of knucklehead that would climb your structure.

I hope someone else can come up with a more intelligent idea than that.
just why the powers that be would be pissed off. A real lack of common sense and no concideration to other burners well being.

III · Post by **III** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:49 pm

>>lack of common sense and no consideration

is what it takes to go climbing on towers in other people's camps.

they deserve what they get.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:10 pm

III wrote:>>lack of common sense and no consideration

is what it takes to go climbing on towers in other people's camps.

they deserve what they get.

This is the last comment I'll make on this topic because alienfry has a legitamate question that should be intelligently addressed.

Lack of common sense acurately describes you, as you've just missed the point of my statement.

The only people that should get hurt are those that want to be hurt. (and I have no problems with that...in fact I would love to watch.) No one should be hurt because of the lack of judgement of one (or in your case 2) idiots. Putting bob wire around your camp is not a logical solution to keeping people out of your camp. It's not creative nor is it in the spirit of BM. That's just the thing that would ruin a burners positive experience. even mess up an artist, which I see you are not.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense would'nt need me or anyone else to make mention of that. Well I guess anyone that lacks common sense needs for someone like me to tell them that.

Give me the plonker please! Can you belive it. I'm begging.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:53 pm

A fence charger did the trick for my friend. She complained that there was a prowler. I wired her house. I droped off to sleep on the sofa.She came in and woke me asking if were ok. She was getting ready for bed when some one let out a yelp. Got the bastard. Now I have installed a remote for her. She can turn it on from outside. You touch you get 9 grand. That'll put your dick in the dirt. Only about 3amp.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:51 am

That's just the thing that would ruin a burners positive experience. even mess up an artist, which I see you are not.

You know what would ruin my experience? Having some idiot climb a structure in my camp, take a swan dive and get maimed or die. That would suck rocks, make an entire camp feel badly and all be the fault of the asshole who did the climbing.

Electrified fencing sounds great - a little *ZAP* at the base of the tower but no long falls, no damaged structures and no big guilt load for anyone.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:07 am

Electrified fencing sounds great - a little *ZAP* at the base of the tower but no long falls, no damaged structures and no big guilt load for anyone.

Still sounds better than bob wire.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:47 am

Yeah, electric fencing is nice but is it environmentally friendly on the playa? You have to charge the batteries and all that jazz...I like Trey's solution. A few rolls of nice Goucho barbed wire do the trick nicely. It's cheap, emission and power free and guaranteed to work. Plus the person running into it gets the benefit of seeing the cute Remsa staff as a bonus!

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:13 pm

On the boring side, some red "DANGER" tape and a "closed" sign will probably handle most of your problems. If not, then they were determined to fuck themselves up anyway, so you can just chalk it up to Darwin if anyone goes splat.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:16 pm

KellY wrote:On the boring side, some red "DANGER" tape and a "closed" sign will probably handle most of your problems. If not, then they were determined to fuck themselves up anyway, so you can just chalk it up to Darwin if anyone goes splat.

That was really funny.

hey

That's what I sayin

oh, and sorry. I wont post anymore.....(I'll try real hard)
I've reached my quota. for the day.

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:17 pm

alienfry wrote:we're building something awesome and tall and fun, but we're not always going to be open. we're not an espleanade / everything open 24 hrs type of camp.

i saw lots of large scale stuff out there and lots of simple signs that read: "Do Not Climb"

I wonder, how effective were those signs?

What measures did camps take to assert when something was either closed or off-limits?

So is it unsafe to climb at any time or are you just trying to discourage people from climbing it when you don't want visitors? Will the structure break if climbed on?

You could put something like "weight limit 5 pounds" if you think it will break when people climb on it. That will let them know it's not safe and yet won't actually be telling people not to do something. Just a thought.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:40 pm

yet won't actually be telling people not to do something

I don't see how it's against some "spirit of burningman TM" that If I build something I don't want someone climbing on I can't just tell 'em "HEY! Get the fuck off that!" or If I'm not there have a deterrent equally as intimidating... like barbed wire.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:22 pm

Believe it or not, I wouldn't use bob wire (except for the guy lines on my Most Dangerous [Sic] Shade Structure In The World project).

But I have used cyclone fence, standard electrical tower warning placards, and orange safety fence.

III · Post by **III** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:02 pm

and *still* someone goes climbing up it.

seems like you shoulda added more fire at the base there...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:28 am

The cyclone fence was part of the original plans and budget for the ten laser installation towers, but because they were mostly out in the open (art space, whatever) and a couple were right along the Esplanade, the need for something like the orange fence perimeter enclosing the space defined by the three guy line anchor points was obvious -- to make the installation more visible to drivers and bicyclists, and partly to discourage curious lookie-loos from plucking the guy cables. I'd been expecting to have to work out something onsite that didn't clash as much with the look of the towers, but it turned out the laser people were only concerned with movement of the tower tops and general safety down below and I realized I was the only one diddling over esthetics. When the fence crew (it was identical to the perimeter trash fence) finished, at a time before most installations were placed and campers arrived, the orange fence lines were pretty glaring, but virtually disappeared when Black Rock City was more filled in.

The orange fence was stretched around steel T-stake fenceposts about 20 ft apart, with three runs of orange poly fence twine, and using short pieces of the fence twine to tie off the fencing.

In any case, for a camp project, I'd suggest not being too particular about how it looks at the base, if the main features are up high; plastic safety fence is available in colors other than orange, and is cheaper by the 100- or 300-ft roll; wrapping the base with just about any kind of mesh fencing, material, or plywood, up to a height of six or eight feet might be sufficient; consider guy lines for anything tall, and use something to flag the lines and the stakes.

And the structures, new theme camps, and/or new art installations topic areas might be better places to get appropriate responses than this one.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:54 am

Tancorix wrote:Yeah, electric fencing is nice but is it environmentally friendly on the playa? You have to charge the batteries and all that jazz...!

....you can purchase a SOLAR FENCE CHARGER (!) at your local TSC or farm supply retailer, and more importantly, you can buy warning flags and signs that say "Danger- Electric Fence"...Buy it all, or just buy the signs.....
It's less fun than shocking people,, but you could also use a touch-sensitive circuit or an electric eye/motion detector array hooked to an alarm horn. Or that, AND a shock!
...and no food pellet.

alienfry · Post by **alienfry** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:07 am

thanks for your replies.

i'm certainly also going to post this in those other places for additional comments.

i host afternoon activites. our camp's structure is going to be TOTALLY safe to climb, it's just that with it being so tall we really don't want to encourage people being on it at night. well, we'll have one night-time thing during the week but overall my concern is that when we're not hosting, when we're not there to have control over the traffic, we also don't want strangers up there.

so far i sorrrrta enjoy the electric fence idea, too bad we're living on the bottom/ground level of it and wont want to get jolted evertime we grab a midnight snack.

question: is barb wire specifically banned?

III · Post by **III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:05 am

>> is barb wire specifically banned?

not as of last year. however, it didn't keep one ranger from threatening to kick my camp out of the event for it. i haven't seen the survival guided for this year.

i suspect that if you keep all of your anti climbing measures above 7-8 feet off the ground, it will be less of an issue for the safety monitors.

Cooky · Post by **Cooky** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:41 am

I'm with the Ubercarney camp, home to a 45 foot tall home-built roller coaster. We use orange snow fencing set back away from the coaster as a perimeter fence. It's not pretty but it helps. You can buy black plastic snow fencing as well for a bit more money if that matches your theme better.

When people can't easily reach the structure it helps to deter them -- with starry eyed wanderers that seems to work, but with a determined "I'm going to the top no matter what" type person, it just slows them down slightly. We also use detachable ladders on the sections that we most don't want people to climb and have tried plywood covers over the access ladders that we need to reach for our regular ops. Finally, we position the coaster back a bit from the Esplanade with a maze of other projects in front of it to deter people and then our camp behind it to hear when somebody falls off... (which luckily hasn't happened yet).
Cooky

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:20 pm

2 words - Axle Grease!

Lube up the entire first 6 feet or so of the sturcture with axle grease, when legitimate climbing activities need to take place add ladder, at night remove ladder and lock it to the bumper of a vehicle or something. Should prevent any covert climbing and not piss off people that find barbed wire and electric shock too punitive.

III · Post by **III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:36 pm

>>axle grease

if you weren't living in it, faeces might be another possibility.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:44 pm

III wrote:>>axle grease

if you weren't living in it, faeces might be another possibility.

Ok...even that's better than bob wire. and funny too.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:04 pm

Yaa butt I realy don't give a shit.{:[)

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:49 pm

Guns.[\b]

Ye kin jus' shoot em off. Its fun and ifins they aint in no clown suit, ye kin eats em'. Otherwise, they jus end up tastin' funny.

And ye know, ravers taste jus' dern near like chicken.

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:52 pm

Cooky wrote:I'm with the Ubercarney camp, home to a 45 foot tall home-built roller coaster. . . . Finally, we position the coaster back a bit from the Esplanade with a maze of other projects in front of it to deter people and then our camp behind it to hear when somebody falls off... (which luckily hasn't happened yet).
Cooky

Possible double-edged sword there. Think about how Emergency Services Department might get through the other installations if there is a fall. Is an ambulance going to be able to get close? Is it possible to have someone(s) on the road(s) to wave down ESD, REMSA and the Rangers and be able to signal the persons with the vic? The inconvience sounds like a good idea--now think about how you can be as convienient as possible in case of emergency.

dj big E · Post by **dj big E** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:03 pm

hey like to say thanks to bob those laser towers were the shit 2001 i believ loved those laser shows anyways back to the tall structure.I think electric wire around base is great idea put a six pack just out of reach so thieves will get shocked as they try to steal you're beer lmao.over at camp weirdo we put up an antenna tower everyyear last year i believe we reached 70 feet maybe someday i'll post picture lmao by the way never attempt to raise 60 feet of tower at once lmao very exciting but very dangerous anyways we haven't had any desperados try to climb but we have a policy in place 1st time you get small warning if you do not get off or have to be told again you are getting a severe ass wooping.just in case anybody forgets this is burning man !!!!!!!!!!!!! not a rainbow gathering or a dead concert.This is a self expression festival not a i'am going to do what i want when i want on other peoples shit festival i will gladly give someone a beer or water etc but i catch you stealing or climbing or destroying my shit you're gonna get an ass wooping.hopefully thoe if you make something that is for climbing and or observing you will share.Bottom line if you're stuff isn't a tactile art piece then people should respect you're shit . And i think barbed wire around the base is cool if you do it and some dickhead gets all caught up in it take a picture please lmao

lennyjones · Post by **lennyjones** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:37 pm

We just used the ole " no climbing" signs about 10 of them around the structure. We just wanted people to ask before climbing
It seemed to work.
Lenny

Cooky · Post by **Cooky** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:46 pm

Blue Bird Proof wrote: The inconvience sounds like a good idea--now think about how you can be as convienient as possible in case of emergency.

Yup, I've thought about that stuff too... we typically set the coaster up next to a "back driveway" that would easily allow REMSA access as needed. Plus, no matter what sort of stuff we place in front of the coaster, several EMT's, a few firefighters and a gurney will get through -- it's not that much of a maze, just enough to deter starry eyed wanderers. I also like to use the snow fencing because emergency crews could easily rip/cut it out of the way if needed, but it's still an obvious deterrent to the casual observer.

Cooky

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:11 pm

however, it didn't keep one ranger from threatening to kick my camp out of the event for it.

More proof that none of us are perfect. That was an embarassment. The Ranger in question was an embarassment. I don't expect him to be back next year as a Ranger.

how did you keep knuckleheads off your tall structure?

how did you keep knuckleheads off your tall structure?

Re: how did you keep knuckleheads off your tall structure?

lmao

no climbing