Attn: Folks with art cars built from golf carts

[oleg8888]

I can tell right away by the golf cart roof that's still there and the body shape. Yes, you have a platform around it. But I still think it's obvious.

LOL
If you find a golf cart's roof on my mutant, I'll pay for your next BM ticket. That would have to be an OEM roof

[toxic07]

To R.B.: You have quite a point of view. Babbling about what’s art – what’s not we can the whole day, but the problem will be: this will be based on my and yours opinions on what the actual art is. And the biggest problem – you have no art education (I assume). Cause if you had, you would see the art in many things. If it’s made by hand – it is a f@$%*g art. And don’t you dare argue that! Another side of the medal - the art has to be original. Yes, here I will agree, lots of people bring crappy art to BM, and I agree that they should not be able to get licenses for that. But hey, TR (Toxic Rose) has a look, has originality, had made LOTS of people happy on the playa, and got TONS of compliments. Bothe (day and night) licenses were issued within 5 second’s look.
I would not say that your MV is the state of art, it is ok. Durable, original, I’m sure, it brought lots of joy… but how is it different from TR? … … … Base, design and that’s about it! So our MV’s are in the same category. Every one does what he/she can: some do very little, some do enough.

To eatdrinkadam: Do it! Do not listen to anyone. It is all Bu%l Sh%t! Just make sure it will be enough!!!!!!!! You can NOT overdo it (even if you will spend a million). If you underdo it – you won’t get the license and you end up with none. I can tell you from the experience: lots of fantasy, money and TIME, TIME, TIME.

PS, Yes I’m the second builder of the TR

[Rat Bastard]

Oleg, that little roof under the big roof is not the original golf cart roof? Looks like it to me. Just sayin. I never bashed your MV. I only stated that I can see that "golf cart OEM type" roof still attached. That's all.

Toxic, Where, in any of my statements have I judged the "artfulness" of anything? Anything and everything I've stated has been from a design point of view. I have not said ANYTHING is or isn't art. You are correct that there is a lot of crap out there. Would you prefer to see all that driving around or would you rather just see the cream of the crop?

I can agree that both of ours are in the same class as being able to hold more people than just a cart alone. The big difference, from what the both of you have said, is that mine is way more mutated. Doesn't make either better. Mine is permanent. You two can put your bumpers back on and your back on the golf course more or less. LOL, I wish I could do that sometimes cause I could use mine as a pickup again from time to time!

My purpose of my statements are not only to get people riled up a bit, it's my nature, but to also cause people to think outside of the box. So many people have different conceptions of what is and what isn't a mutant vehicle. 1% of BRC citizens have registered MVs give or take. It's gotten to the point where some guidelines had to be instilled by the DMV. The BLM requires that vehicle traffic on the playa be regulated for multiple reasons. The whole story about that is in those links I posted. Those pages were written by the DMV. One of the things I noticed most was the increase of golfcarts being used in a fashion that basically left the cart in-tact. Hence not "radically mutated". (DMV definition) My original posts stated my reasons for moving outside the "golf cart box". I know I'm not alone in this thought.

To the orignal poster, I agree with Toxic 100% of "go big or stay home". He is correct with stating that a half assed attempt will not get a license. What ever you choose to build, dream big and build big. If your concerned about what the DMV considers license worthy, read through the links. Trust me, the DMV does NOT judge the artfulness of ANY MV. All the criteria they go by is written on their tribe. It's up on tribe for all of us to utilize. I urge everyone here to read through all of it (It's quite a bit of reading but worth it). After that, I would love to continue our conversations as this is about the most discussion about MVs on eplaya I've seen in a while.

RB

[toxic07]

I never bashed your MV. I only stated that I can see that "golf cart OEM type" roof still attached.

And I can see that yours is truck too . (no hard feelings)

We saw lots of people were denied in getting the license. Like one that put some snowmobile fenders on a street bike. IT IS A FUSKING STREET BIKE !!!! He seemed pretty disappointed... Dahhhhhhhhhh
Actually, it is not too hard to come up with something original. The major problem is (not the money; even though it is) – Time. Having a full-time job, family and other things to do kills all of the free time. For our MV, we spent enormous amount of time for each part of the project.
1.Planning
a. Division of the main project in smaller ones:
b. Design
c. Resources
2. Work
a. Demolishing (if there is a base)
b. Tune up of the vehicle (it MUST be working damn good)
c. Body works
d. Electrical
e. Decoration (set up)
3. Fun Part
a. Polishing (details)
b. Packing
c. Transporting
d. Setting up
e. Using (the easiest part ONLY if all of the previous tasks are done 100% and above)
f. Disassembling (if needed)
g. Transporting back
h. Sealing (for the off season time if not used for other events) and storing

Result that we got – priceless (cheesy quote)

[Rat Bastard]

You forgot the first aid breaks!

I know mine still shows that it's a truck. I hate that and I'm fixing that this year. I'm coninuing what I did on the top for the roof and brick walls to the bottom. I was told that mine passed because of it's people potential. Had I said I wouldn't be able to have any riders, it probably wouldn't. This year I hope to have no problem either way. Had I trashed the bed too I wouldn't have had time or materials to do that second floor bedroom. With the bed I have the ability to take that and the benches off. It also collapses for transport.

I got a kick out of your list. "Cruising around the playa feeling like King of the World, Priceless!" Mine I would have to add; the mechanic, scrounging for cheap steel, scraping for welding materials, back tracking due to "oh shit" moments etc.

I use a 7000lb, 19' trailer to haul mine the 4000 mile round trip. I imagine a golf cart would fit on a 15' or 12' trailer but that trailer would still be in the 7000lb range. With the same trailer, one could put a cart or a small car. I also, since mine is SO Fing heavy, have a load distributing hitch and a sway bar. Makes 70mph so more doable. My trailer also has brakes on both axles. Even with all that, I'm close to max. My tow vehicle is an 02 Flex fuel Suburban.

What does everyone else tow theirs with?

[unjonharley]

Fudge, I'm trying to keep mine under 200lb.. Hope to make it fold down enough to ride on top the van.. Other wise I will have to work on the axel of the 4X8 utility trailer.. Last year the trailer and load add up to 1200 lb... Am planing a much smaller camp this year..

Only 1000 miles round trip.. Most of the speed limits hold me back at 55 mph

[oleg8888]

whole art car about 1200# + water + other crap = who knows.
Purchased a car trailer just for this. Without a breaks it would'v been nightmare

That's what it looked like on the way there


coming back, no room left:

[thirt33n]

...could i just get one last corona light before we pull outta here?

[Rat Bastard]

So how's this for a question.

Does Burning Man even allow "art cars"?

http://tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/photos/ac5 ... 989b8be474

[gyre]

I don't even have to look at the link.
It's like telling people you can't call a "cola beverage" a coke.
Technical.

[Tiahaar]

Seems I recall hearing that the tightening-up of the DMV requirements is actually being driven by BLM folks wanting less driving on-playa (who ideally want no driving at the event but the mutant vehicle as-part-of-the-event compromise was agreed to instead). Rumor? Truth? Half-baked partial excuse for kicking people's butts into doing good MV's?

[gyre]

I haven't heard that myself.

[Rat Bastard]

I don't think you want to hear it.

http://tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/photos/ac5 ... 989b8be474

It's not a joke. Without the DMV and "their silly rules" there would be NO driving around at BRC.

[unjonharley]

Seems I recall hearing that the tightening-up of the DMV requirements is actually being driven by BLM folks wanting less driving on-playa (who ideally want no driving at the event but the mutant vehicle as-part-of-the-event compromise was agreed to instead). Rumor? Truth? Half-baked partial excuse for kicking people's butts into doing good MV's?

I would thnk it is more self imposed.. Given more people and the danger of people and MV on the same streets.. The Blm is always tighting up.. Just to keep up with there standards of no damage to the playa..

[gyre]

There is a distinction between vehicles licensed for playa only and city as well.

i don't think it is unheard of to issue special instructions for vehicles too weird to be covered by normal rules.

[Captain Goddammit]

There used to be "street licenses" and "playa licenses" at BM, last year they weren't doing that anymore. It was an unnecessary complication.

[Toolmaker]

Seems I recall hearing that the tightening-up of the DMV requirements is actually being driven by BLM folks wanting less driving on-playa (who ideally want no driving at the event but the mutant vehicle as-part-of-the-event compromise was agreed to instead). Rumor? Truth? Half-baked partial excuse for kicking people's butts into doing good MV's?

You did..

As I understand the "new" rules "art cars" are now banned. Think party barge and large scale public transpo type vehicles that do NOT look factory, it must be a MUTANT. There was a thread about it on here and maybe even a mention in JRS. Most of these "restrictions" arent desired by the ORG rather forced upon them in negotiations with the GOV. I know last year there were alot of applications and many were turned down for safety, not mutant enough, whatever. I really don't think its an art critic thing when they tell you no night license for no lights on the vehicle. Just make sure it has flame effects whatever you make.

[capjbadger]

Does anyone know what qualifies as a "Human powered" MV? It's my understanding that human powered vehicles don't need to go through DMV.

I've been thinking over this idea to convert my MV to human power, but the power transmission is odd and I don't know if it would still be viewed as human powered.

Anyone know the fine print? (or where I can find it?)


Badger

[gyre]

Why do you think your vehicle would be an issue with human power?

[Rat Bastard]

If it's 100% human powered, no power assistance from combustion, electric, steam etc, then no, it does not need to go through the DMV.

Yet a bicycle with motorized assist does.

If there's any chance it can "go" by itself, it's a vehicle.

[capjbadger]

Why do you think your vehicle would be an issue with human power?

Because people think of "human powered" as someone pedaling, with the power being transfered via a mechanical linkage (such as a chain).
Due to my unusual drivetrain setup, a mechanical power transfer is not really workable. So my idea is to have the pedals attached to a generator, and the drive wheel driven by a electric motor.

Still human powered, but the mechanical linkage (chain) is replaced by a electrical linkage (wires).

So yes RB, it could not go without someone pedaling.

Badger

[gyre]

If there is no other power source, that's human powered.

[Rat Bastard]

If there are no batteries to store a charge and it only goes when pedaled? Hmmm. I'll ask around for ya.

Your best bet is to still fill out the DMV application. At least then you'll have it in on time. They can say yea or nay on the need of a license or not.

Sounds like one of those quirky technicalities.

[capjbadger]

If there is no other power source, that's human powered.

Cool. I'll have to see if I can pedal enough to power the motor. Would be a lot easier that the current solar electric setup.
Means I only would need to muck around with the solar and batteries for the lighting.

Badger

[capjbadger]

If there are no batteries to store a charge and it only goes when pedaled? Hmmm. I'll ask around for ya.

Your best bet is to still fill out the DMV application. At least then you'll have it in on time. They can say yea or nay on the need of a license or not.

Sounds like one of those quirky technicalities.

Only batteries would be to power the lights.

Even if I can get the system to work, I'll be putting in the app to the DMV just to cover my ass.

Yeah, technicality. I seem to run into those a lot.
The way I see it, the only difference between this and a bicycle is one transfers power via a chain, and the other via wires.

Badger

[gyre]

I think you will have a lot of loss through each stage.

Have you checked out LeChat Noir's Contraption?
Human powered last year.
Trying for steam this year.

If you're going to human power, you might want to talk to some of the bike people.
They have done some incredible things with their designs.
They may have some ideas.

[Rat Bastard]

Think flywheel!

[capjbadger]

I think you will have a lot of loss through each stage.

Have you checked out LeChat Noir's Contraption?
Human powered last year.
Trying for steam this year.

If you're going to human power, you might want to talk to some of the bike people.
They have done some incredible things with their designs.
They may have some ideas.

A lot of loss? Where?

Yeah, I've keep a lazy eye on the Contraption.

Not sure if they would have an easier solution. Picture the front wheel of a bike and pretend that that is the drive wheel. Since it pivots, running a chain to it would basicly be impossible.

Think flywheel!

Hmm... That's not a bad idea actually. I could use one to smooth out the power generation from the pedaling. Add weights to a back wheel off a bike... hmmm

Badger

[gyre]

Even the best generator and motor has a certain amount of loss in energy conversion.
Those crazy bikers have done much weirder things than front wheel drive, which I have seen.
How about rear wheel steering?
Independent drive by multiple riders?
One without steering turned by shifting power to one side or the other?

You'll just have to weigh your options.
I think with the power level of people, a more direct drive will be more effective.
Hydraulic is good if you can pull it off.

Here's a link to the contraption
A lot of good ideas on there.
The kinetic racers are on this thread and others.
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=22962

Here's a Two wheel drive motorcycle
http://home.mira.net/~iwd/2x2x2/index.html
Their V8
http://home.mira.net/~iwd/index.html

[capjbadger]

Oh yes, the bit of loss in the generator. That much I expect.



You can see my problem.
The drive wheel (single) is built into the rudder for steering. The first gen ship had a gas engine sitting back there. I converted it over to solar electric last year (4 batteries inside).

Badger