The Contraption 2.0

[LeChatNoir]

Electric would certainly be easier, but I'm seeing the motor just frying out eventually. I don't trust those little pumps to last all that long and the one I'd need is $160 or so.

The minor problem I'm facing with a mechanical pump is the possible RPM variations. Procon says there is a minimum 1450 RPM for this pump, so I'm planning for that. I've gotta call them back and find out if there is a maximum, since the flywheel could get whizzing pretty good if the engine is running on full steam.

The Procon pump also requires ¼ hp, so I think there’s enough to do that little bit extra, considering we’re geared low on the drivtrain in order to not go faster than 5 mph or so.

As far as consistency, I think the pressure tank will handle that problem. Same as when you get your house water from a well. When you shower, there is not a very noticeable drop in pressure as the pump kicks on and off to charge the pressure tank. So I'm thinking that the same should apply here without much issue.

And there is an alternator, fitted with a sprocket, sitting on my work bench. Heh Heh... I want to charge the camp batteries this year if I can. That and not worry about juice for the lighting.

I've got some ideas on hiding it all too. I don't mind electric, if I can make it look like very early electric. Like wrap the exposed wires with fabric tape or something, maybe?

[MozyBonz]

That variable is whats bugging me.

I was just thinking that building in some turnkey dependably in to it is not that undesirable out on the playa.

[gyre]

Look in Hemmings.
You might be able to actually use early electrics.

[unjonharley]

Old electric,,

One of the overhead cranes I run had trolly car controls

The controlers were stacks of curved brass bars with a short crank handel. JUst crank on the current you needed for the lift..

Two hooks one 40 ton the other 75 ton.. some of the lifts were 4 hours to pick up and move..Never took my eyes off the walking boss or hand off the controls.. The cage was 80 ft. off the floor

[LeChatNoir]

As I understand it, the flow rate would vary more than the pressure, since once the predetermined pressure is reached, the diverter would simply direct the feed water back to the holding tank at a free flow. If I go with mechanical, I’ll use a Series 1 (because it has a filter screen), which lists a required flow of 13 gph @ 150psi requiring only 0.15 hp. This is more than twice the estimated flow needed for the boiler, so I feel ok about that.

Though, I did find this electric pump that seems more durable than the typical sprayer-type ones.

[LeChatNoir]

Old electric,,

One of the overhead cranes I run had trolly car controls

The controlers were stacks of curved brass bars with a short crank handel. JUst crank on the current you needed for the lift..

Two hooks one 40 ton the other 75 ton.. some of the lifts were 4 hours to pick up and move..Never took my eyes off the walking boss or hand off the controls.. The cage was 80 ft. off the floor

At the steel yard the other day, one of the guys who works there was missing his index and middle fingers. The wound was still red, tender looking and healing. Come to find out he got them caught between the crane hook pulley and the hoist cables. They got pulled right in and mashed off.

I‘m still confused as to how this could happen, but one thing is for certain… least one person was not watching what was going on.

[Dusza Beben]

Old electric,,

One of the overhead cranes I run had trolly car controls

The controlers were stacks of curved brass bars with a short crank handel. JUst crank on the current you needed for the lift..

Two hooks one 40 ton the other 75 ton.. some of the lifts were 4 hours to pick up and move..Never took my eyes off the walking boss or hand off the controls.. The cage was 80 ft. off the floor

At the steel yard the other day, one of the guys who works there was missing his index and middle fingers. The wound was still red, tender looking and healing. Come to find out he got them caught between the crane hook pulley and the hoist cables. They got pulled right in and mashed off.

I‘m still confused as to how this could happen, but one thing is for certain… least one person was not watching what was going on.

OW!

DB

[unjonharley]

should NEVER grab the cables..
I alway had a hicher.. if some one else hooked me, I would not move until my hicher waved me on..

There s a big habit with the walk along crane in steel yards.. Each guy runs his own crane.. then you get slopy..Just like driving or typing. only in typing you can back sace and delete..

[LeChatNoir]

I did a test on the antifreeze thermostat tonight. It seems to work. I hooked a gauge inline to monitor what was happening inside it, and it’d climb to about 120 psi or so. This was with a small torch heating the tube to get the stuff to boil. It took a bit to invest the heat into it, but after that, it seemed to react pretty quickly. I was surprised actually.

Not sure how well it’ll work in the boiler, but we’ll see sooner or later. The idea occurred to me that if this doesn’t work that well, I might be able to fall back on an old thermostat control for an oven. It could be set to around 375 degrees and then, instead of controlling a gas valve or electric cooking element, it could control a solenoid for the feed water.

But I'll try that only if this doesn't work...

I did find one small leak in the thermostat, too… teeny little pinhole. Not enough to "leak", but enough to make a small spot wet around one of the welds. But in a closed system, that can’t be, so I’ll tend to that before the first test run.

Also got the control box mounted on the boiler shell.

Oh… and the shop cats wanted me to emphasize to any lukers how important it is to exercise care when dealing with antifreeze around animals, too. Clean up any spills or drips very well.

[fciron]

For those who don't know antifreeze has a taste (sweet, I've been told) that appeals to animals. They can easily lick up enough from a spill to be fatal.

Lead-acid batteries can be a concern as well; they can leak fluid while charging and the dried residue also appeals to animals. You do not want to deal with a cat with chemical burns on her tongue.

[gyre]

Propylene glycol is safer and you can get ethylene glycol with pepper added.
I'm told that in the country, people train their animals with squirrel away, so they never eat anything except what is in their bowl, to always avoid poison.
Seems like a good idea.
I like Evans.
Maybe it would work for you.
Highly recommended for diesels too.
http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html[/img]

[fciron]

That was my old shop cat. She used to have a suicide attempt every spring. She had been splinted, stitched, bandaged, and force fed for weeks through a syringe.

I moved to a more residential neighborhood and she found some cat-lady to take her in.

[LeChatNoir]

There was only one equipment related accident involving one of the two kitties in my shop. She apparently jumped up on the forge one evening after I left. It was still hot enough to burn her as evidenced by the very raw pads on one of her front paws. took lots of nursing to heal that one up, but she remembers not to do a thing like that.

They get scolded if they ever jump up on the work table where hot things are (very rare that this happens), other wise they run the place. They can sleep right through grinding, banging, and even the air hammer going full tilt. They stay in the clear and doze away... doesn't even phase them.

[Teo del Fuego]

hey Le Chat, can you post a current foto of the Contraption so we can see how she looks right now?

Will ya be racin to get it completed in time for the Burn?

[LeChatNoir]

Right now she looks pretty much the same as the photos from last year. The engine is temporarily sitting in its mounting spot, but that’s it. There will actually be very few cosmetic changes and the one’s that are going to happen, though noticeable when compared to previous photos, will be seamless. In fact, it’ll look very close to last year when the steam upgrade is done. Pump tower is still gonna be there and still gonna work. Just throw one lever to switch from steam to human power.

There is a large job in the shop right now that is paying the bills, yes… but I find I have less play time that I did this time last year. So I may well be racing to get it all done. We’ll see. Hopefully this boiler will work without much fuss and I can get on with drilling holes, mounting stuff and jazzing up the lights a bit.

I'll try and get some pics during the daylight this weekend.

Time for some grub and then contraptioneering!!

[Captain Goddammit]

Well you could be me... and it would suck! I'm coming in a motorhome this year with 56k miles, unknown transmission status (it works, but I don't know how worn-out it might be). One does not go to BM lugging an 8000 lb trailer with an unknown transmission. So I'm swapping the fresh-built turbo400 from my old one-ton into it; but the RV manufacturer welded c-channel on top of the frame, making the crossmember bolts inaccessible, so you can't remove the tranny crossmember!
You know I AM going to get those goddamm bolts out, one way or another, but it's gonna be lots of grinding and cutting and torching and general BS.
And at least this reaffirms my suspicion that the tranny has never been out and this whole operation is actually worthwhile.
OK, I feel better now, I'm going back outside.

[gyre]

I suggest synthetic fluid in the trans and a good cooler.
If I can help you find a specialty tool to access those bolts, email me.
There are all sorts of unusual approaches possible, though you're probably already aware.

[Captain Goddammit]

No, I mean they welded steel completely encasing the bolts... there was NO access!
In this case, a torch and a grinder and a chisel were just special enough to make some access holes. I thought I was gonna have to cut the crossmember and weld it back in.
Freekin' brain surgeon RV builders...

I have a plate-style cooler and two electric fans as well as a mechanical fan, and will be putting in a fresh radiator too. Many BM trips have learned me some stuff.

[MozyBonz]

Are the access holes inside the RV?
the chassis were built before the RV body is built on them.
hidden top access plates inside maybe?

[LeChatNoir]

Ohh, Ohhhhhh Jeez…

Don’t even start talkin’ about transmission trouble. I worry every year that I’ll have some issue. I service my truck very well and treat her good. No dogging it and not a lot of pulling heavy stuff. To the playa is the most long distance towing work she does all year.

I’ve been thinking of putting in a new torque converter before this year's trip, but a while back the guys that do my service said they advised against it since the current one seems to be doing fine and they didn’t like the idea of a new torque converter sending power to an old drive train. Sort of "If it aint broke, don't fix it".

Not sure that there's always logic with that approach, but I figure with them not taking the chance to bill me for work, there must be something to it. And I trust them, they’re not by any means lazy oafs. I do some of the service stuff on my own and am very picky over who touches my truck. Without that truck, I am dead in the water.

I still worry.

Even talking about it here makes me hesitant. Sending that thought out into the universe and all that.

[gyre]

If you redo it, there are some upgrades that fix overlooked flaws.
The first thing they do is alter the trans to lubricate when stopped.
They make a lockup torque converter that can be used for towing.
They drag race with it engaged on a 4wd truck.

If you're willing to use a manual, I like the richmond.
Tough and can be set up with a very wide gear range.
Very cheap in the five speed.

I've had good luck with the griffith radiators.
An auxiliary tank on the input side of the motor can give you cooler water during that first pull from a stop.
I'm leaning toward evans fluid these days too.
If you guys are running diesels, there are some good cooling systems that keep the temperature from getting too low.
That really affects mileage on a diesel.

I hope you can reach that trans an easier way.
With some cars I've had, that had access plates in the right places, I wouldn't hesitate to cut holes anywhere I needed them.
The fuel pump in my tank is changed from inside the car.

[LeChatNoir]

Sheeewww…

Yesterday and today were long days. I never slowed down, not even enough to take any photos, so I’ll apologize for that. I had hoped to get some, but I did get the boiler assembled and mounted on the deck. Then hooked up to the engine!!

Finished up to small tasks this afternoon, then with safety glasses on I fired it up. Soon there after was provided an example of a worst case scenario monotube boiler failure.

Not as bad as it sounds but extraordinarily frustrating.

Lots of water running everywhere mostly.

Either the feed water wasn’t flowing enough or the burner was too hot, but either way a joint failed inside the boiler and then a small bit of steam whizzed out the flue fell away to just water running, running, running.

Broke it apart and fixed the joint, then put it back together with a needle valve to control the burner more precisely than a ball valve, then try it again.

This time it worked. By fiddling with the feed water and the burner controls, I was able to produce steam pretty consonantly at around 80psi. I had ball valves in two places to crack open when firing it up. One was shortly after the steam tube exit’s the boiler, the other was the one to drain the chamber inside the engine. You will recall before my wondering if this would be a problem.

Well…

The engine would not turn at all on the steam. Not even a hint of it. I tried to manually get it going, thinking it might need a little boost at first. Nope… nothing.

Cracking the ball valve at the boiler would produce a very steady stream of what I would call good quality steam. No water droplets, just a white, puffy, hissing good stuff.

But then opening the ball valve that drains the chamber within the engine and then cracking the valve sending steam to the engine, I would get spurts of water and then at best a consistent stream of very wet steam with lots water blowing out with it. My guess is that the steam is condensing back into water very quickly within this chamber and loosing most of the energy it had.

I hooked the engine back up to compress air at 50 psi and it spun like a top, after spitting out a bunch of water that is. Ugh…


So the next step is to change the feed lines to run directly to the heads and see if that makes a difference.

[Tiahaar]

Wow Le Chat you are nearly there!!! So close so close, hope the plumbing tweaks do the trick. I've tried following along with the design but unsure on this question, is there a way to blow steam through the engine to preheat it, an open inlet/exhaust valve configuration?

[capjbadger]

Doh... sorry to hear about your trouble LCN. I'm sure you will get it working.
I'm not expert in steam engines, though I've done a bit of distilling. Would wrapping/insulating the lines that feed the engine keep them warm enough to keep the water from condensing?

I tested out the throttle on my MV today. It was the throttle that kept it from running safely last year. Turns out I had a slightly wrong schematic. Now that the throttle is grounded correctly, it runs just fine.
Now just a bit of re-building the drivetrain to make it stronger and some cosmetic additions and I'm good to go! Woo!

Badger
Daches Gabe

[Oldguy]

I seem to recall that besides the trottle bar controlling the amount of steam entering the engine , that there was a Johnson bar controlling which side of the piston steam was entering the chamber. Right of center put steam on side of piston moving engine forward, left of center put steam on side of piston moving engine backwards. Engines could run at the same speed in either direction and at differnt speeds depending on how far you pushed the bar." Pushed to the limit." This was based on newer engines which ran on expansion of steam. Older engines ran on theory of condensation, where the rapid condensation of steam to water produced a vacuum pulling the piston down. I believe, and this may be wrong, that they ran only in one direction. That to move in reverse you needed a team engine hooked backwards, or a switching engine at end of line, or a roundabout in the switchyard. They used a lot of water compared to high pressure hot engines because the condensation was vented and not recirculated. Early bleves were really caused by water shortages rather than overpressures . Top plate goes dry, rapid expansion of water in tank to steam and tank blows , not engine... High pressure expanion engines had two inlets, one on each side for direction. I believe low pressure condensation engines had only one inlet for steam and were unidirectional. But I'm old and may remember things incorrectly. Perhaps you have a low pressure condensation/vacuum steam engine.
PS. First safety check when boarding an engine is to look at the water tank level. I learned this as a boyscout visiting the Roseville Rountabout in California north of Sacramento. I was allowed to use the Johnson bar on a switchengine, a little boys dream to be at the controls...

[unjonharley]

These guys may be on to some thing.. Aboard ship the word would go out to "jack" the engines.. By this it ment to slowly turn the engine machanicly to heat it evenly and force whole waters out.... Bring the boiler up to fullsteam and releaving air and water at a point on the end of the feed line.. I had to do this releaving thing in some building I maintained.. \ You may look for air pockets or cold spots along the feed line.. A change in line size can change you temp° when going small to larger.. Enough size change could turn you back to water droplets..

[MozyBonz]

Is this a CFM (cubic feet per minute) problem?
Does 1.0 CFM air = 1.0 CFM steam
Do you have a psi gauge on the head it self?


IF you need to fill the ports…
I have seen JB weld used on a motorcycle head.
Billy Rohm owner of Rohm Performance Machine in Yuba City, CA. The King Daddy of oil-cooled GSXR motors.
Built an 1100 Suzuki that was punched out to a 1552 ccs. He used the JB weld epoxy to reform the intake ports to get air and fuel into the Big 1552 cc Motor with and 1100 head. He just formed where he wanted more port then just machined it. That was back in 91-92 I’m sure they must have something now you can use for the ports.

The bike was a 207 mph naturally aspirated carbureted Street Bike. Almost all the Aluminum (pegs, grips, struts bolts) was replaced with titanium.

We called it the Unattanium Special
I will see if I can find the Magazine it was in.
I may have a number to pick his brain about epoxies. I will look.


Waits for more steam news….

[fciron]

Mozy is right.

I did some research on porting two-cycle engines and JBweld is the building up epoxy of choice. The temperature in a two cycle cylinder has got to be higher than in a steam engine.

Sorry to hear about the difficulties. At least you have a whole team of consultants here.

[LeChatNoir]

I’m feeling much better today. Thanks you guys…

I think I can block off the port with a pipe plug. There's looks to be enough room without issue. But the JB weld approach may come into play yet.

I’m not even close to giving up. After a bite of grub, I’m heading back out and plotting my approach. I’m also thinking of a way to deal with that small amount of blowby in the valves. Not sure if it’ll work or not. But at least I’ve got more of the 5/8â€

[MozyBonz]

small amount of blowby in the valves.

I have been thinking about this one also.
positive displacement pumps use ceramic seals and I have also seen booster pumps use some that were spring loaded for a face to face seal.
let me know if you want more info on how ceramic seals work.