peddled art car

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:26 pm

hi there burners....

i hope this is the right thread to post this on, i didnt see one specifically for art cars...

my friend and i would like to make art cars but have missed the deadline and so cannot. instead we would like to make them operated by peddles like bikes.

the site doesn't seem to specify if that would be okay or if we would be breaking the rules by not registering.

anybody have an opinion?

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:41 pm

Per the DMV's website you only have to get a license and go through their hoops if you motorize it. You won't be doing that so besides making sure it's lit up for night time use...the sky's the limit.

You're not the only one thinking of doing something like this...I'm already working on an idea for 09's event and I'm wondering how I could adapt a 21 speed Shimano mountain bike gear setup to an art bike built for 2? Is there easier ways to improve mechanical efficiency? I've got some studying to do on rickshaws and the like...but if anyone has resources that might jumpstart my efforts...and would be willing to share I'd be very grateful.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:42 pm

As long as their is no motor, you do not need to be registered. If you have flame effects, they will have to be checked out at the DMV. I think..just don't use garden hose with propane. Lighting your vehicle, is important. If its towing anything, make sure the hitch is well lit! DMV pyro check is a night, I believe. Good Luck!

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:48 pm

Well first off, you haven't missed the deadline. Deadline is June 30th.

Human powered vehicles do not need to be registered.
That was talked about a bit here: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... c&start=30

Even if it is human powered, it's still not a bad idea to register with DMV.

Now get building!

Badger

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:48 pm

Pedal generator
http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen.html

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohloff_Speedhub

There are many with 5 to 8 speeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear

Sram has a 7 and maybe a 9 speed.
Shimano has an 8 speed.
http://www.sram-imotion.com/

There is more info on the bike forums.
I can post links if needed.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:02 pm

even if its pedal powered, any type of motor, electric or combustion, must be registered. Blame the BLM...not DMV

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:48 pm

Gyre, I'll take you up on that offer for more links. The SRAM 3 Speed shifter with the coaster brake caught my eye for the project I have in mind....

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:50 pm

TomServo wrote:even if its pedal powered, any type of motor, electric or combustion, must be registered. Blame the BLM...not DMV

Are you with the DMV? If so, please define "Human Powered". From what I understand, if the vehicle can't move without someone actively pedaling, then it's human powered and does not need to go through DMV.

Badger

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:48 am

http://www.bikeforums.net/index.php

http://www.thebicyclesite.com/index.php

http://www.vulturesknob.com/

http://forums.bicycling.com/eve

Some of these are primarily electric, but some are about both and electric bikes are usually pedaled as well.
http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=258

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/

http://visforvoltage.org/

Some electrics
http://www.cyclingforums.com/

Mostly motors
http://www.fieldlines.com/comments/2004 ... 918/600/21

http://www.ebikehub.com/forum/

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:53 am

Kinetic V wrote:Gyre, I'll take you up on that offer for more links. The SRAM 3 Speed shifter with the coaster brake caught my eye for the project I have in mind....

Why a 3 speed over a 5 speed or more?
I love the 14 speed hub.
Sram and Shimano have 8 or 9 speeds available.
Sachs or Sram and the old english 3 speeds have a reputation for toughness.
There are some sites that have parts for the older 3 speeds and talk about them.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:45 am

As a matter of fact, I worked for the DMV for several years. If it has an electric motor...whether run on batteries, your feet, jesus christ, or whatever...it needs to be registered. Do what you want, I don't care..but the BLM might.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:46 am

As a matter of fact, I worked for the DMV for several years. If it has an electric motor...whether run on batteries, your feet, jesus christ, or whatever...it needs to be registered. Do what you want, I don't care.Im not DMV anymore....but the BLM might.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:47 am

heehee..stutter

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:52 am

What about if you put a bunch of model rocket motors on the aft end?
Just asking.

alt12 · Post by **alt12** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:39 am

I recommend building one of these bamboo bike trailers and installing a chair on it.... We're building a couple of these for this year with PVC...according to the inventors, they can hold 200-300 pounds....so should be able to accommodate a couple of chairs...the nice thing is it is a very cheap alternative...buying a rickshaw is really expensive....I looked at a used one here in S.F. and it was almost $1,000....

http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:51 pm

TomServo wrote:As a matter of fact, I worked for the DMV for several years.

probably explains why you cant f*ckin read. The original poster referenced a pedal powered vehicle. There was no mention of an electric motor

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:03 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
TomServo wrote:As a matter of fact, I worked for the DMV for several years.
probably explains why you cant f*ckin read. The original poster referenced a pedal powered vehicle. There was no mention of an electric motor

Relax Teo... Tom was answering me and I did have a link in there that went to the discussion of "What is human powered". (Chain power transfer vs. Wire power transfer)
We've all talking about pedal power, just different type of power transfer from the pedaling.

TomServo wrote:As a matter of fact, I worked for the DMV for several years. If it has an electric motor...whether run on batteries, your feet, jesus christ, or whatever...it needs to be registered. Do what you want, I don't care.Im not DMV anymore....but the BLM might.

Why does the transmission of power matter? Chain or wire, it's not moving unless someone is actually peddling. What's the difference?

Tom, do you have a link to the BLM regs that cover MV's? I'd love to read up and see what they have to say about this.

Thanks.

Badger

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:23 pm

[email protected] wrote:hi there burners....

i hope this is the right thread to post this on, i didnt see one specifically for art cars...

my friend and i would like to make art cars but have missed the deadline and so cannot. instead we would like to make them operated by peddles like bikes.

the site doesn't seem to specify if that would be okay or if we would be breaking the rules by not registering.

anybody have an opinion?

DMV told me last year that if it had a motor or engine, it had to be registered. The art vehicle we brought, called The Contraption, was entirely human powered and did not need to go through DMV. DMV told me this themselves. I did have to go through The Artery to get a flame effects license, however. This inspection did not happen at night, in my case at least.

This year itâ€™ll have a steam engine on it and so will have to go through the DMV for both the daytime and nighttime MV licenses. These are two different inpections and Iâ€™m told that nighttime MV license inspections do take place after dark.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:54 pm

capjbadger wrote:Relax Teo... Tom was answering me

Dooooh!

I thought I was being appropriately crotchety, now I see Im just turning into an old codger

I have been fairly snarky as of late.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:39 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
capjbadger wrote:Relax Teo... Tom was answering me
Dooooh!

I thought I was being appropriately crotchety, now I see Im just turning into an old codger

I have been fairly snarky as of late.

Here's your "Old Codger Burner" bullhorn (fresh from Playazon). Carry on.

Badger

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:45 pm

capjbadger wrote:Here's your "Old Codger Burner" bullhorn (fresh from Playazon). Carry on.

Badger

Oh man... They make those?!?

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:46 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:DMV told me last year that if it had a motor or engine, it had to be registered. The art vehicle we brought, called The Contraption, was entirely human powered and did not need to go through DMV. DMV told me this themselves.

Yet if the motor is human powered..? I still don't see the difference between a wire carrying power, and a chain carrying power to the drivewheels.

Badger

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:48 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:
capjbadger wrote:Here's your "Old Codger Burner" bullhorn (fresh from Playazon). Carry on.

Badger
Oh man... They make those?!?

They should!

lol Who runs that site? We should demand they add them! hahaha

Badger

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:51 pm

capjbadger wrote:
LeChatNoir wrote:DMV told me last year that if it had a motor or engine, it had to be registered. The art vehicle we brought, called The Contraption, was entirely human powered and did not need to go through DMV. DMV told me this themselves.
Yet if the motor is human powered..? I still don't see the difference between a wire carrying power, and a chain carrying power to the drivewheels.

Badger

Well... I think it could be argued. But I'm just telling you what they told me.

What about an extraordinarily slow, hulking behemoth of a vehicle that used a human powered 15' diameter flywheel?. Take you all morning, ten cases of PBR and a crew of DPW to get the sucker going, but once you did it could run for miles.

And no need for a Mutant Vehicle license.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:57 pm

capjbadger wrote:
LeChatNoir wrote:DMV told me last year that if it had a motor or engine, it had to be registered. The art vehicle we brought, called The Contraption, was entirely human powered and did not need to go through DMV. DMV told me this themselves.
Yet if the motor is human powered..? I still don't see the difference between a wire carrying power, and a chain carrying power to the drivewheels.

Badger

The ability for it to move on its own. Really I'm not trying to be funny.

So I build this MV. and I take the safety lock out off the trans so now I can start it in gear. I used a old ford truck drive train so when the starter solenoid failed the MV started on its own and because it was in gear. well it dragged me down the street hit a fence ran over my foot and hit a pole.

OK it happened to me with a 58 ford truck but you get my point.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:01 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:Well... I think it could be argued. But I'm just telling you what they told me.

What about an extraordinarily slow, hulking behemoth of a vehicle that used a human powered 15' diameter flywheel?. Take you all morning, ten cases of PBR and a crew of DPW to get the sucker going, but once you did it could run for miles.

And no need for a Mutant Vehicle license.

The QA tester/loophole finder in me is really really tempted to do just that to prove the point. lol

I'd also love to build a wind powered flywheel car. Windmill powers up the flywheel, flywheel powers the drivewheel. I bet it'd be the first MV out there that is wind powered without being a sail car.
*sigh* So many projects, so little time.

I think what I really need at this point is the fine print regs the the BLM gave us since that's where the DMV says these rules are coming from.
I want to see their definition on "Human Powered", and if it's not clear there, then at least I can email them.

Badger

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:04 pm

MozyBonz wrote:The ability for it to move on its own. Really I'm not trying to be funny.

So I build this MV. and I take the safety lock out off the trans so now I can start it in gear. I used a old ford truck drive train so when the starter solenoid failed the MV started on its own and because it was in gear. well it dragged me down the street hit a fence ran over my foot and hit a pole.

OK it happened to me with a 58 ford truck but you get my point.

Yes, I get your point, but I think you misunderstand mine. I'm talking about pedaling a generator, which is directly wired to a motor. No battery. It cannot move unless someone is actively pedaling.
Wire power transfer instead of chain power transfer. The power is still human and the MV can't move without being pedaled.

Badger

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:04 pm

So what about hydraulic power transfer that would be in effect using a motor but it seems to be more of a gray area.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:10 pm

Solar counts as external power.
I imagine wind would, but who knows?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:11 pm

Zulegoona wrote:So what about hydraulic power transfer that would be in effect using a motor but it seems to be more of a gray area.

Power transferred from where?
For human power, it would just be a transmission.

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