Wireless Sound

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:35 am

Oh... and we can figure it out if all you can find is the wattage it uses, too.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:40 am

There's plenty of radio equipment that runs on dc.
Why make yourself crazy?

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:22 am

Wait....OK a step back for a moment.

Are you trying to just pull up to any sound camp capture their sound and simotaniously play it back from your art car?

Or do you have a sound camp and want the art car to playback the same audio simotaniously?

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:50 am

lechat: 85 VAC to 264 VAC. Cool huh? see: http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/downlo ... FM100B.pdf (pg. 5)

Bonz: A local Salt Lake City tribe (50hz Healers) has an art car that I want to tap into. If you were there last year, it's the elephant with a flaming trunk ( It's fucking sick. I will most likely tap into their sound most of the time, but I'd like the option of approaching camps and other camps and art cars.

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:16 am

Sorry. I'm just getting that my needs might not be as clear to everyone else as they are to me. It all makes sense to me.

Okay, this is what I have: one small art car in progress (baby elephant). It has a nice FM radio, amplifier, and two 300w PA's. This is where I will pick up the FM signal. I will probably always be within 100ft of the source.

This is what I will tap into: the 50hz healers art car (mama elephant). My family owns the art car and plays the records, so I wont have a problem with getting approval to attach the transmitter.

This is what I want the option to do: to tap into other art cars and sound camps.

A side fact: I'm surprising the family with my art car at Burning Man. So they have no idea they're having a baby. This is another reason why I need it to be portable.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:36 pm

OK so Big elephant has transmitter small elephant has fm tuner. All in the family
No problem.

This is what I want the option to do: to tap into other art cars and sound camps.

This can be much more compacted

Having friends that work as radio engineers and sound reinforcement engineers helps.

Sound only travels at the speed of Sound

So if linked transmitter and tuner say two elephants playing the same music

The people on the Big Elephant would hear the beat on the Big Elephant before The people on the Big Elephant heard the beat coming form the Small Elephant 200 feet away â€¦.so now the music is doing a train wreak on itâ€™s self for The people on the Big Elephant same for the people on the Small Elephant. So the more distance you have between the two pa systems the more they donâ€™t match beat wise.

Now the person standing 100 feet away from the Small Elephant and 100 feet from the Big Elephant will have some cool FX

One way you can see this in action is at a concert in a very large Amphitheatre
With a big screen on stage and a big screen half way up for the top of the bowl to see. From the top looking down at both big screens you will see that the top one will have a delay on the video to get there at the speed of sound not the speed of cable (or fm transmitter). So sound and video both get to you sitting in the top of the bowl at the same time.

Having friends that work as radio engineers and sound reinforcement engineers helps.

I would stick with just the two Elephants and then expand later on.

Or I could start to go into limitations of distance, arrangement of microphones, the use of plate boundary microphones sound cancellation, slap backâ€¦â€¦

You should get some friends that work as radio engineers and sound reinforcement engineers it helps.

Or we could go into lights and lighting systems.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:41 pm

It's the playa.
Somehow I don't think time delay and phase cancellation errors will be a huge issue with all the background noise out there.
We get used to it, but there is a constant hum out there.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:48 pm

I guess youâ€™re right no one engineers their sound out there anyway why should you.
Some of the biggest sound camps had the worst clipping and distortion. Its just I have been in front of some of the biggest and best sound systems in the world. So I hate to hear bad sound systems. Makes me cringe~~~ Especially when just by applying some simpleâ€¦.

oh just forget itâ€¦.
Not everyone has a tension to detail. Its one of my down falls I guess. I have been around this stuff to longâ€¦Stampsâ€¦ maybe I should pickup stamp collecting.

Do what you want. Itâ€™s your time and money not mine.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:04 pm

Don't even mention clipping.
No excuse for that.

There was at least one camp out there that was carefully engineered and very loud.

Personally, if I wanted to hear canned music, I wouldn't drag myself thousands of miles to do it.
I did hear one art car that was set up very well, not obnoxiously loud, clean system.
Out there the sound carried very well.
It doesn't take a lot of power.

If I go to the desert, I want to hear live music or something different anyway.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:26 pm

gyre wrote:Don't even mention clipping.
No excuse for that.

There was at least one camp out there that was carefully engineered and very loud.

Personally, if I wanted to hear canned music, I wouldn't drag myself thousands of miles to do it.
I did hear one art car that was set up very well, not obnoxiously loud, clean system.
Out there the sound carried very well.
It doesn't take a lot of power.

If I go to the desert, I want to hear live music or something different anyway.

I wont say what large camp was clipping Simon but Le Chat was with me at the time and he made the same kinda comment about it.

'one art car that was set up very well, not obnoxiously loud, clean system."

I did too. It was a bus with a drummer on top. It made me turn around because it was pleasurable to listen too~~ versus the audio distortion pain I usually feel.

Some time I will tell you about the DJ that would clip audio tracks on his mixer board because he liked the sound effect it gave to his music. The solid red light at the top of the meter meant it was just right.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:03 pm

MozyBonz wrote: Some time I will tell you about the DJ that would clip audio tracks on his mixer board because he liked the sound effect it gave to his music. The solid red light at the top of the meter meant it was just right.

Justifiable Homicide

I have always been amazed at how little distortion is clearly audible.
When I got my 800s (speakers) they sounded bad and I couldn't figure out why.
They have three adjustable crossovers and while I was checking everything, I found the midbass adjustment knob was installed way off center.
That little difference was wrecking the sound!

I once ruined the sound interviewing ______ in Isaac Hayes studio just by turning up the levels past 10% of the way to the red.
You could hear the peaks, no question.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:54 pm

Justifiable Homicide yea well it was his a 32 channel, 8 bus mixer board...It didn't last the year.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:28 pm

It's at least grounds for GBH.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:05 pm

Yep it is in my book also.

I guess I should bring up where the name Mozy Bonz came from.
It was a rock band in the eighties that I did road crew work for.
we did ranch parties with beer trucks two flatbed truck trailers side by side.
for the stage some lighting A crew of ten and a keg for the band.

Wow flash back...I think I have a picture of me leaning against a speaker stack in a studio in ummmm 1982~83

The best sound system ever was rolling stones Babylon tour Oakland coliseum. I came in back stage parked next to a crew bus and hung with a security roamer during the concert. I wasn't working.

I just can't find the words I was all over the coliseum FOS at the mixer, up in the nose bleed seats sound was great all over the stadium.

Edit: I can't spell and (FOS = Front of Stage)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:20 pm

This talk of levels reminds me of a group called Bang that opened their show by firing both barrels of a shotgun on stage to start a certain song.
A friend of mine was running sound and he was so pissed when they came out with that little surprize.
Blew out two mikes too.

The best sound I ever heard was a concert for broadcast at Ardent Studios by Lynyrd Skynyrd when they first appeared.
No one had even heard them play.
They had a wall of speakers stacked to the ceiling on one wall and it was the most incredible sound, time alignment issues and all.
It really suited their guitar work.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:34 pm

Hahahaha Yes I have seen some battles between sound and the stage.

I saw a sound guy shut off a singerâ€™s mic because the singer kept kicking the face of his floor monitor. So the singer pull out a bullhorn. And kept kicking in the monitor Hahahaha I ask the sound guy does that make you mad?(his equip) " no I just give the promoter a bill."

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:11 pm

Mozy,
Do you have any Mozy Bonz backstage passes, posters, etc from the band?

Jaimito,
Do you think you are getting your radio sorted?
I hear nextel walkie talkies on phones work well.
If the frequency response is good enough for you, might be a way to go?

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:52 pm

jaimito wrote:lechat: 85 VAC to 264 VAC.

Just the voltage, without the current (amps) is useless info, you need to know how many watts (volts x amps).

jaimito wrote:I'd like the option of approaching camps and other camps and art cars.

That's virtually impossible to do in a practical manner and/or with decent sound quality. You really need a transmitter coming from the source to pull this off.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:58 pm

gyre wrote:Mozy,
Do you have any Mozy Bonz backstage passes, posters, etc from the band?

No lams we didnâ€™t use them.
But I do have some posters. And some of the only recording that exists of the band. I digitized the tapes and put them on CD. Prior the band was known as Magnum Force. A drummer change and they became Mozy Bonz.

This is one of my dance floors. We laid it down this weekend in a horse arena at the Rancho Murieta Country Club

100 panels 100 sq yards of floor.
we have 1000 panels

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:15 pm

Nice!

jaimito · Post by **jaimito** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:54 am

[/quote]
That's virtually impossible to do in a practical manner and/or with decent sound quality. You really need a transmitter coming from the source to pull this off.[/quote]

that's what why i need to make the transmitter portable.

thanks for all the help everyone. i'm starting to hear that things can't be done... but this is for burning man, so it can. k? i think everyone's just sick of this topic. i'm just going to order the fuckin radio and figure it out. it will work. promise. see you all out there. thanks again. peace!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:08 am

I'm guessing you saw these gizmos?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=wireless

Bobzilla · Post by **Bobzilla** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:21 pm

If you are going to do FM you need to be assigned a frequency so you don't interfere with established playa broadcasters.

Go here for info: http://www.k-svert.com/freqs/

This is where FM frequencies are coordinated and assigned.

Post by **trilobyte** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:13 pm

What about a wireless guitar rig? They work for short distance (up to a few hundred feet). I believe you can even get a stereo wireless rig for only a few hundred bucks. The delay on those units is extremely small.

Trilo