Anyone used a MURS radio last year?

alt12 · Post by **alt12** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:07 pm

Considering picking one of these up this year as FRS walkie was kinda useless. Their expensive and not sure worth the money but have heard that a lot less crowded channels. Has anyone actually used a MURS radio on the playa? If so how was it? thx,
alex

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:32 pm

Louise and I brought one to use for emergencies. First Aid has requested that one of the frequencies be kept clear for use to call EMTs in an emergency.

MURS is absolutely quiet on the playa. Or at least it was last year. Since manufacturers started making FRS/GMRS combos, GMRS radios have sucked the big one with everybody using it unlicensed. If you can afford a couple (or a few depending on how many you need) MURS for the playa, I'd recommend it. Louise and I are ham radio operators, so we've switched to that for comms instead of GMRS.

Here's the email on using MURS for emergency calls. I ask that if you get MURS that you graciously let first aid use the frequency they mention here:

"911" Service in Black Rock City

In recent years Burning Man as an event and as a community has grown,
and the Emergency Services Department (ESD) has developed in tandem
with Black Rock City in providing 911 services such as EMS, fire,
mental health, and emergency communications. In 2007 ESD started
offering a remote way for theme camps, art projects, and participants
to get help and in 2008 we plan on building on what we learned from
the first trial year of service.

While all the conventional ways to get help are still available (for
example know your local Ranger or where the nearest Emergency
Services Station is), we wanted to enhance safety by providing an
option for those who might have a specific concern or for those who
just want be helpful to others in their neighborhood. This is
accomplished by ESD and Rangers monitoring the license-free MURS
(Multi User Radio Service) radio band.

MURS is a service similar to FRS (the frequencies that Motorola
Talkabouts and similar radios use). As on-playa radio users can tell
you, FRS is extremely overcrowded and in use by thousands of
participants during the event. FRS radios are also not powerful
enough to effectively communicate throughout Black Rock City. MURS,
in contrast, is currently not in common usage and operates at a
higher power so it can communicate across the entire playa.

We hope that with the intention of reserving this "911" channel
before MURS use becomes widespread at Burning Man will set the
expectation that this channel will be for emergency use only. You
will need to purchase your own MURS radio to contact ESD 911, but the
other four MURS channels can also be just like the FRS channels for
other purposes. Large camps or villages might also choose to make one
part of their group planning efforts and store it in a public place
for emergency use.

Why do I want one of these when my FRS radio works just fine?

* If you're part of a large theme camp it could be a good investment
to have a MURS radio around to call 911 for your group, especially
if you have members who have known health issues or the risk of
injury is of special concern.

* Large art projects working out on the open playa will be able to
get help faster.

* Camps that are on the outer-rings of the city and are far from a
Ranger outpost or Emergency Services station don't have to send
runners for help when an emergency arises.

* The other 4 channels on MURS can be a great alternative to crowded
FRS channels, especially if your camp has an art-car or event-wide
project they want to coordinate.

* Emergency Services Dispatch cannot be reached on an FRS radio.

Calling 911

FOR ALL MURS USERS: we ask that all Burning Man participants respect
that channel 5 will be used as a 911 channel only. While the other
channels are fine for use as an alternative to FRS, we want to stress
that channel 5 on MURS please be kept open for emergencies and not
used for any other purpose.

Set your MURS radio to channel 5, code 11 (154.600 / CTCSS 97.4) to
reach Black Rock City Emergency Services Dispatch. Using any other
"privacy codes" on channel 5 will interfere with 911. Instead limit
your personal use to channels 1-4.

If you have further questions or need help in finding a source for
radios, please email [email protected] for more information.

An example of a compatible radio:

Dakota Alert MURS portable (operational controls just like common FRS
radios, with selectable channel and code on the display) $89
http://www.dakotaalert.com/catalog/prod ... ucts_id=56

I didn't need to call first aid last year, but there have been a couple of years when bicycle accidents happened right in front of me and a call to 911 would have gotten help much quicker than standing around asking someone to find a ranger and be able to tell her where we were and needed help.

alt12 · Post by **alt12** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:10 pm

phil thanks for your reply...sounds like MURS might be promising and I'd definitely stay off the emergency channel....in your experience does it have the same range as FRS? I mean could I reasonably communicate with my basecamp if I'm on the other side of the city or on the open playa?

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:18 pm

Phil,

Thanks for the info. I will bring my handheld MURS as a protection for myself and my neighborhood.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:19 pm

FRS has a power of a half-watt and a crummy antenna. Our MURS radio has 5 watts and a more nearly realistic antenna (they all suck on handhelds). So my MURS radio has considerably more reach and power than FRS. I'm confident it could reach any other 5W radio anywhere on the playa.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:39 pm

a newbie friend of mine is bringing his walkie talkies to the playa to saty in communication with others. Will this work or are the channells too crowded? I cant remeber ever seeing any walkie talkies on the playa, though I see tham all over the ski resorts here in Colrado.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:47 pm

bringing his walkie talkies to the playa to saty in communication with others. Will this work or are the channells too crowded?

For me, FRS and GMRS are unuseable by Thursday or so because of all the traffic. What service are his walkie talkies?

Intubater69 · Post by **Intubater69** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:24 pm

phil wrote:FRS has a power of a half-watt and a crummy antenna. Our MURS radio has 5 watts and a more nearly realistic antenna (they all suck on handhelds). So my MURS radio has considerably more reach and power than FRS. I'm confident it could reach any other 5W radio anywhere on the playa.

Phil, being a medic, I'm all for good communications, vital in our job. I had read that memo about MURS before and was thinking about them so I asked a fellow medic who is also a HAM and does disaster response w/fema about them and he told me their range was only 2 miles. Does radio brand make a diff. in range, and/or power. If I recall he told me the MURS were only 1/2 watt, but he has no practical exp. with them, and you obviously do.

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:20 pm

> Does radio brand make a diff. in range, and/or power. If I recall
> he told me the MURS were only 1/2 watt, but he has no practical
> exp. with them, and you obviously do.

The radio listed in the email I quoted is a two-watt radio. I have no experience with it. The FCC says 2 watts is the maximum, so I erred in saying our radio was 5 watts; our GMRS and amateur radios are 5 watts, and I assumed MURS was, too.

(h) No MURS unit, under any condition of modulation, shall exceed 2 Watts transmitter power output.

95.639(h) at
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/ ... 95.639.htm

I would not say _brands_ make a difference, but radio design and antennas certainly do. MURS allows external gain antennas, and you can buy rubber duck antennas specifically tuned to MURS frequencies, which will extend the range of most radios over their factory rubber duck antenna.

Louise and I have used 2-watt GMRS radios for years at Burning Man, and we've never been out of each other's range. I've never tried to see how far the range is; we have used 1/2-watt FRS radios and not gotten out of range of each other. My issue with FRS at Burning Man is the over-crowded frequencies, which spills over into GMRS because of the combo radios. C'est la vie.

Saying the range of a radio is some specific distance is probably too general. I won't argue with your friend's assessment, but I'd be interested in knowing where he was when he got a 2-mile range; that's pretty good in urban areas and in the woods. I would not expect 2 miles from a 5W GMRS or ham radio. On the playa, two miles is not difficult at all, even with a half watt.

Small handheld radios with rubber duck antennas are mostly line-of-site. If you can see the other guy, you can talk to him on the radio. I don't know where BMOrg's MURS antenna is on the playa, but I'll bet it's high enough we can see it from anywhere we're allowed to go. I'm comfortable that I'll be able to call '911' on MURS and reach them if I need to where ever I am at the Burn.

Let me add that I have been a ham for only 6 or 7 years, and I use radios, I don't design, assemble, or even understand them. I am not an expert. I have no problem telling what my experience is, but I don't hold my experience out as a definitive example of how things are or should be. Others mileages will vary. Corrections are welcome; I make assumptions that prove wrong, and I'm happy learn more.

Intubater69 · Post by **Intubater69** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:20 pm

Phil, I believe my friends experience was anecdotal. He mentioned that they were closer to a true vhf handheld but very low powered, hence the shorter range. I was looking at one website that sold MURS and they also had base stations with aux. antennas to increase the range, I don't remember but I think it was the link provided in the email explaining the use of the MURS radio for emer. contact. Considering that I would also use the radio at our camp in northern Ontario I do need a greater range of at least 5 miles so I'm thinking that if I am going to upgrade from a FRS I'll just go with GMRS and hope for the best. I know even less about radios, about enough that if I push this button thingy people can hear me cursing at the other driver to get out of my gall-darned way, pull to the right, not left you morons

brickmaster · Post by **brickmaster** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:18 am

Hey Phil,

Just checking whether I should bother bringing my bog standard walkie talkies.

If, inferring from what you said, they would be usable mon-thurs or even early in the morning while everyone sleeps, i'll bring them.

I just don't want to lug them across a third of the world if there not going to be of any use.

They actually aren't bad. With line of sight i can get about 4 miles from them. Only paid 25 dollars for them too.

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:56 am

> If, inferring from what you said, they would be usable mon-thurs
> or even early in the morning while everyone sleeps, i'll bring them.

I'm sorry to say this is when I bow out; I have no clue whether you'll find them useable or not. Everyone's tolerance for crap is different, so you may find them useable the whole time.

Having said that, I'd say bring'em. Louise and I use our radios in airports, in big box stores, and everywhere we'll be separated but may need to get in touch. ("I'm going to wander around and look at magazines. Let me know when they call our flight." or "Hey, Phil, I found an umbrella hat - you still looking for one?" You know - important stuff.) Use the radios before and after the event, and as long as you want during it. I think they'll be helpful more than you think and more than I've suggested.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:10 am

I bring radios to use for only if I have a camp mate in medical.

So they can call to have someone go get them or someone to give stat med updates to the camp.

Never had a problem using them until one was stolen off my bike as I was checking my dehydrated wife.

brickmaster · Post by **brickmaster** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Good points, I'll bring them. No reason not to, and could speed up our big store shopping. Thanks.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:17 pm

Some years I have a radio on the Land Yacht and some I don't... I used to be a radio nut years ago... I found CB to work extremely well on the Playa, but efficient antennae for 27 MHz are long, and most portables are a little too bulky, so they work best for mutant-vehicle-to-base communication.

FRS and GMRS suck entirely on the playa.

I've thought about using Marine handhelds... it wouldn't be 100% legal... OK, not even 50% legal... but it would work great...

Dark Star · Post by **Dark Star** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:25 am

What about using CB hand held or UHF radios like the
Motorola VL50 or Motorola BPR 40?

Does anyone have experience with this type of radio. The BPR 40 is a 5 watt.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:16 am

For CB radios, see captaingoddammit's post preceding yours.

I have no experience with the 2 radios you mention: it's in a business frequency I'm not authorized to use. The VHF version is 5W, and the UHF version is 4W, which won't make a noticeable difference. I'm looking at a picture of one on a Web site. It looks like a standard handheld radio, and I'd say it would perform very well on the playa.

Louise and I use 5W amateur radios and 2W GMRS radios, and neither ever loses contact on the playa.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:10 pm

Louise and I bought a pair of MURS radios to use on the playa this year:

http://civex.smugmug.com/gallery/5448419_VT5Sj

We had the opportunity to call playa 511 or 911 or whatever on channel 5 on Tuesday. A couple's car had broken down, and they couldn't find anyone to offer help at all. The woman was in tears fearing they'd be abandoned on the playa to die a slow death. I called for help for them and got a helpful answer from the other end on how to get towing/repair assistance from either playa info (which was still open) or through BMIR.

Unfortunately, the PTT key stuck in the down position after I thanked them for the answer. I couldn't turn the radio off with the PTT down (push button toggles on/off), so I had to take the batteries out. I couldn't get the PTT button unstuck, so I tossed the radio. We didn't protect the radios, and we had those two bad dust storms. Our GMRS radios have been out there for years, though, including this year, and continue to function just fine.

Sigh - that's one of those judgments you have to make. Do you get something cheap because it's likely to be eaten up by the playa and then replace it when it fails? Or do you buy something of good quality because you don't want it to fail on the playa?

These radios were cheap, and we had a pair, the other of which continued to function. But now we're down to one, and we know its quality is questionable.

There's no real answer to the question. We buy some things in high-priced quality and some things cheap and in twos or threes, assuming failure.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:46 am

It may be possible to clean them, although a big pain in the ass.

Anyone used a MURS radio last year?

Anyone used a MURS radio last year?

Update on the MURS radios we bought