The Pickens Plan

scotto · Post by **scotto** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:22 am

When you have a moment do me a favor and check out the link below. If you are not aware of who T. Boone is click here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.

http://www.thepickensplan.com/

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:09 am

one of my favorite steaks is the t-bone

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:40 am

scotto wrote:When you have a moment do me a favor and check out the link below. If you are not aware of who T. Boone is click here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.

http://www.thepickensplan.com/

That guy's fixin' himself to be a national hero. More power to him. Maybe his motive is benevolent, maybe not, but, whatever. "This is one problem we can't drill our way out of" sounds just fine with me.

Texas just signed on: "In what experts say is the biggest investment in the clean and renewable energy in U.S. history, utility officials in the Lone Star State gave preliminary approval Thursday to a $4.9 billion plan to build new transmission lines to carry wind-generated electricity from gusty West Texas to urban areas like Dallas"

Hot damn. One thing about Texas is that for better or worse, when they decide to do something, there's no half-ass about it.

RingO'Fire · Post by **RingO'Fire** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:11 am

I thought THIS was the "Pickens' Plan."

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:31 am

Goddam, that looks like Black Rock Desert down there.....

Must be the American Dream..nuke the pagans!

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:52 am

Great. An oil man (see "Who Killed the Electric Car?") with an idea for dealing with the energy crisis.

Yeah, right next to the Charles Manson memorial day care.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:21 am

"nuke the Pagans....."

hey!!
I don't wanna be nuked, no mom, don't nuke me................

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:24 am

So far, they're all oil men.

The problem with most of the professional world-scale greens is that they're really good at telling everybody else what to do, but I'd not bet much money that Gore or Obama travel in biofuel-powered tour buses. Edwards lives in a 26,000 square foot house, Kennedy's a windfarm NIMBY, etc.

-c

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:30 am

yeah, especially Algore.....do as I say, not as I do........

Tobacco farming, strip mining etc.....isn't that where his money comes from?

Of course, it would be quite the challenge to find any politician, especially at the most powerful levels, that's not a hypocrite, liar, cheat, criminal etc..........
They don't climb the ladder that high by being good and honest.........IMHO........

We point fingers at the ones we don't like, and say how "bad" they are, and, ignore transgressions just as bad in the ones we like.........
hahahahaha,

silly humans.......

Nope, not cynical.......

Ygmir

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:07 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:So far, they're all oil men.

The problem with most of the professional world-scale greens is that they're really good at telling everybody else what to do, but I'd not bet much money that Gore or Obama travel in biofuel-powered tour buses. Edwards lives in a 26,000 square foot house, Kennedy's a windfarm NIMBY, etc.

-c

Biofuel - by which I assume you mean bio-diesel or ethanol - pollutes about the same as gas does. Common misconception.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:19 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
Biofuel - by which I assume you mean bio-diesel or ethanol - pollutes about the same as gas does. Common misconception.

I agree with that, in terms of the way it's currently produced. I've heard from various sources that hemp is 10x as productive per acre as corn for biofuel. Even though we practically forced the Sioux to grow it for the WWII effort, we can't grow hemp now 'cause PEOPLE MIGHT SMOKE MARIJUANA! Can you imagine?

-c

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:00 pm

RingO'Fire wrote:

I thought THIS was the "Pickens' Plan."

Looks much like Aspen or someplace like it. I can see the ski runs.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:41 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
Biofuel - by which I assume you mean bio-diesel or ethanol - pollutes about the same as gas does. Common misconception.
I agree with that, in terms of the way it's currently produced. I've heard from various sources that hemp is 10x as productive per acre as corn for biofuel. Even though we practically forced the Sioux to grow it for the WWII effort, we can't grow hemp now 'cause PEOPLE MIGHT SMOKE MARIJUANA! Can you imagine?

-c

Isn't switchgrass even better than hemp?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:59 pm

my understanding is the Achilles heal to these plant based ideas is water.
there's lots of land, but, not so much water, and, the ability to transport it......

RingO'Fire · Post by **RingO'Fire** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:46 am

Toolmaker wrote:
ZaphodBurner wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
Biofuel - by which I assume you mean bio-diesel or ethanol - pollutes about the same as gas does. Common misconception.
I agree with that, in terms of the way it's currently produced. I've heard from various sources that hemp is 10x as productive per acre as corn for biofuel. Even though we practically forced the Sioux to grow it for the WWII effort, we can't grow hemp now 'cause PEOPLE MIGHT SMOKE MARIJUANA! Can you imagine?

-c
Isn't switchgrass even better than hemp?

I've been involved in a chemical engineering design project for the past year in which we're looking at using the cellulose in waste paper as a feedstock for ethanol production. I'm working on a B.S. in Chem. Eng. at the local university (3 semesters to go - woohoo!). Anyway, I've become an expert on the subject of ethanol and cellulosic ethanol in particular.

The beauty of switchgrass is that it doesn't require much energy (i.e., fossil fuel) or water inputs. Producing ethanol from the cellulose in plant fibers is generally referred to as "cellusic ethanol." Cellulosic ethanol holds great promise as a liquid fuel source in the future, since there are something like 200 billion metric tons of available cellulose produced naturally each year.

Since the science of cellulosic ethanol production is still in its infancy, scientists and enginners expect to make great strides in increasing ethanol production from switchgrass in the future. For example, if the efforts put into improving corn yields are put into improving switchgrass yields, then we can eventually expect a five-fold increase in per acre yields, similar to the gains in corn production from thje 1930's to the present.

God knows, using corn as an ethanol feedstock is completely unsustainable. Right now, we're using approximately 20% of the U.S. corn crop for ethanol production. However, the 4 billion gallons of ethanol produced from corn only replaces approximately 3% of the 142 billion gal/yr gasoline demand in the U.S. Extrapolating, even if we used 100% of the U.S. corn crop for ethanol production, all that ethanol would only replace about 15% of the entire gasoline demand in the U.S.

I have to get back to work right now, but I could go on and on and....

I'd be happy to send anyone references and/or links to references on cellulosic ethanol. I have several hundred articles.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:08 am

when do we get to protest the cutting of "old growth" prairie and switchgrass?.........

Ygmir

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:58 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
Biofuel - by which I assume you mean bio-diesel or ethanol - pollutes about the same as gas does. Common misconception.
I agree with that, in terms of the way it's currently produced. I've heard from various sources that hemp is 10x as productive per acre as corn for biofuel. Even though we practically forced the Sioux to grow it for the WWII effort, we can't grow hemp now 'cause PEOPLE MIGHT SMOKE MARIJUANA! Can you imagine?

-c

Can I get a pot-powered artcar? That would be splendiferous!

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:32 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
ZaphodBurner wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
Biofuel - by which I assume you mean bio-diesel or ethanol - pollutes about the same as gas does. Common misconception.
I agree with that, in terms of the way it's currently produced. I've heard from various sources that hemp is 10x as productive per acre as corn for biofuel. Even though we practically forced the Sioux to grow it for the WWII effort, we can't grow hemp now 'cause PEOPLE MIGHT SMOKE MARIJUANA! Can you imagine?

-c
Can I get a pot-powered artcar? That would be splendiferous!

distillation my man.. distillation

tho i think the ATF might come a knockin if you have a still

good luck tellin em its for fuel and not for drinkin

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:24 pm

Biodiesel is great, as a niche fuel.
Theres no way we can meet a fraction of our appetite for fuel through the growth of even the most efficient crop to make ethanol or biodiesel.

Id like to see a lot of nuclear reactors, windmills and any other green power producer cracking water into Hydrogen for use in vehicles fuel cells, or through direct burning.

No matter what, no matter the level of conservation we achieve, or the efficiency burning fossil fuel - it WILL run out. Thats a given.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:53 pm

RingO'Fire wrote:
I've been involved in a chemical engineering design project for the past year in which we're looking at using the cellulose in waste paper as a feedstock for ethanol production. I'm working on a B.S. in Chem. Eng. at the local university (3 semesters to go - woohoo!). Anyway, I've become an expert on the subject of ethanol and cellulosic ethanol in particular.

I became an expert on the subject of ethanol by the time I was a sophomore, which is why I failed chemistry.

Seriously, though no seriously in addition to hemp, cellulosic ethanol and wind power--they're saying that the Oregon power grid won't be able to handle the projected windfarm production. Can people whine or what?--we should look at tidal solutions a la OSU for places like Guam that burn fossil fuels for power 24/7.

-c

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:50 pm

Total side bar, but huge military bases are going into Guam. There will be issues.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:10 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Total side bar, but huge military bases are going into Guam. There will be issues.

The troops will be mostly coming from Okinawa - funded by the Japanese.

On the plus side, there will be little concern for environmental damage, since Guam barely has an environment left anymore.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:49 am

Oh crap, those people I know who are working on the guam's environment have just had their livelihood rendered exitensially pointless.

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:43 pm

All catttle and no hat.. So why is he any better than any other alternative visionary, Money? No one plan will be enough, we all go to do our part.

Strange though, I'm bringing a wind generator to the burn this year transported on my propane powered Ford truck. I wonder if I can get a grant?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:38 am

Didn't we already *have* a presence on Guam that the Dep't of Offense severely reduced, because there was, um, "no need" for it there? (No need to answer, one of my old BF's from HS was stationed there. Lovely place for tropical fish... and not much else...)

Which makes me wonder, what is the percieved threat that necessitates re-mlitarizing Guam? Indonesia? Japan? Thailand? Russia??

Or... hmmm... maybe Apokiliptika was right... the threat is really the anticipated invasion of the KIWI HOARDES!!! Yiiiiiiiii!!!!

But it is something to think about... WHY do we need to go to Guam?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:36 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote: But it is something to think about... WHY do we need to go to Guam?

I've been there. I didn't see any need either.

blondieblu · Post by **blondieblu** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:21 pm

Many reason we should be on Guam.... It is a U.S. Territory, like P.R. Perhaps we should help and empower the population of Guam to treat their environment as a part of the whole.... protect it while rebuilding it.

Blondie :D

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:56 am

could we get off Guam for a moment? Maybe start a Guam thread elsewhere? Id like to read more discussion on the Pickens plan. Thanks.

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:53 am

Teo del Fuego wrote:could we get off Guam for a moment? Maybe start a Guam thread elsewhere? Id like to read more discussion on the Pickens plan. Thanks.

So this rich Texan with money reads newspapers and says what his favorite alternative energy solution is and gets alot of press.

While this poverty class burner, yours truely, will puts propane and wind power into action after more than a year planning and I get a spot on the 3am circle. Somebody send him my picture, I need a plug.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:02 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Oh crap, those people I know who are working on the guam's environment have just had their livelihood rendered exitensially pointless.

Some Marines I knew went out after some poachers--who set fires to flush out the animals--and discovered a bunch of Japanese military relics when they were in Guam; machine guns, the works. Point: The Marines went hunting poachers.

There was an article in National Geographic or somewhere about how the poachers had driven bigass birds and bats onto the military base, where they found refuge on base behind the fence.

In reference to the topic, it seems like islands would be ideal locations for windfarms, especially since power transmission distance would be very low. On the other hand, maybe some sort of tidal turbine would work better.

The Pickens Plan

The Pickens Plan

Re: The Pickens Plan

Wind and propane

Wind and propane power burn.