The Long Cold Winter

[Ugly Dougly]

"Despite objections from consumer advocates, in the last two weeks California judge Jed Clampbet has sent 142 delinquent homeowners to state prison for up to three years each, for failing to honor their home mortgage obligations"
http://wallstreetexaminer.com/blogs/mantle/?p=41
I thought debtors prision was outlawed

"Jed Clampet"? Sure, sure.

Whatever happened to running down predatory lenders?
Can you say "public financing"? I knew you could.

[can't sit still]

Jed had to do it, Jethro was busy
The neocons couldn't seem to get their shit together and finish off Iraq. The war dragged on,,,the US was broke. If Iraq couldn't be trashed quickly, Iran couldn't be torched.
The european banks that owned the FED put the squeeze on Greenspan to lower rates to rock bottom. This allowed the blowing of the housing bubble and bought more time. But still, Bush and his cronnies couldn't get it right in Iraq.
Greenspan made a hasty exit as soon as he could find a fall-guy stupid enough to take the blame.
This was all done to neutralise Israel's enemies. The banks and the bond market will blow by october. The combined debt is $37 trillion and Americans are in no mood to finance any more wars.
So, what is israel going to do now to get America to finance a war with Iran. Simple,,, bleed America dry. Suck every last drop out until America is a white corpse.
The carbon-tax bill is being rammed through congress. What do you know, it's called the Fiensten-Lieberman bill. 1.5 trillion dollars sucked out of the dying middle-class. All of this controlled by a committee of 5 people. Harry Reid is pushing for a vote tomorrow [friday].
Lieberman and Reid, why do I get a sinking feeling?
Gee, I wonder if a $ 1.50 rise in the price of gas will adversely affect the economy?
While $1.5 trillion might not stop global warming, it will certainly make things hot for Iran.
We're already on the road to hyperinflation. We have the budget-buster drug bill to keep big-pharma from going broke. 30% of our money is spent to service just the interest on our debt. 40% is spent to keep the military-industrial business from going hungry. Now you can throw in an extra $1.5 trillion to keep israel safe. Shit, we Americans are just a bottomless pit of wealth.
Well, fuck yeah. It's worth any cost to keep israel happy
Lets see; the banks reported to the St. Louis FED that they had negative equity. They may soon have to take back on the books $5 trillion in loans that they guaranteed would perform.
It's starting to dawn on everybody that only suckers buy treasury bonds at 4% when GOV is inflating the money supply at 19%
The whole financial sector is dying. Lehman bros is the next big house to fall. Citi won't be far behind.
The monoline insurers just got derated because they have no capital. That means that the states and cities [especially california] won't be able to borrow any money.
Freddy and Fannie and the FED have bought up a few trillion $ worth of toxic loans. Yes, I can say "public financing"
Trouble is, they are almost out of capital The fucking congress is fiddling while the country burns.
Inflation is at 19% when you use the previous GOV method. Unemployment is 13.1 %. 10% of Americans are on food stamps, yet, GOV refuses to expand the program. [shadow stats]
The country is flat broke, but the lovers of AIPAC are more than willing to add a huge carbon tax as long as it will finance a war against israel's enemies.
Just think, after Iran, then comes Syria.
There's a famous quote, "America had no enemies in the middle-east until it had israel as a friend."

[can't sit still]

Transparency cometh to the U.S.
http://business.theage.com.au/imf-final ... tml?page=1
"Der Spiegel wrote that the IMF had "informed" Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke of plans that would have been unheard of in the past: a general examination of the US financial system. The IMF's board of directors has ruled that a so-called Financial Sector Assessment Program is to be carried out in the US."
"something President George Bush is determined to prevent at least while he is in the White House, informing the IMF that it can begin its investigation but cannot complete it until he leaves office."

There is some uncertainity about the future of the US economy. Since .4% of the US money is in the form of cash,,, and since 2/3 of the US currency is outside the US, that leaves about $900 per person inside the country. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The point is ; I believe that you should have a pocket full of cash JIC.
Fortis has now joined the IMF and RSB in predicting a bumpy road ahead; http://dprogram.wordpress.com/2008/06/2 ... hin-weeks/

[can't sit still]

The Fortis prediction turned out to be a hoax.
I did find a very good writeup concerning GOV and the economy. GOV seems to believe that they can fix any problem. Truth is,,, GOV is the problem;


GRAND THEFT SOCIETY
by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

A core problem with government is that its managers believe that all reality will conform to their wishes if they issue the right orders, pass the right laws, and put the right people in charge. Reality resists this simple-minded approach; witness the debacle of the war on terror. Sadly, the same group that has managed that war is now managing another one: the war on recession.

The tendency of these managers is to fabricate a view of cause and effect that conforms to what they would like to do. In the war on terror, we were told that the 9-11 attacks came about because shadowy bad guys from afar resent our freedom. If you believe that, the answer is more militarism and killing as a preventative measure. If, however, you realize that these attacks grew out of a desire for vengeance against American military policies, the implied policy solution looks radically different.

So it is with the economy and the proper policy response to recession. If you believe that there is no good reason for an economic downturn other than a wave of animal spirits and flagging public confidence, your response is to inject optimism via the printing press. Surely, nothing makes folks happier – temporarily – than for them to find themselves awash in newly printed bills. This will lead to internal joy, consumer spending, and thus recovery.

So believes the silly political class.

Consider a different view of cause and effect. If the recession is a correction to an overly pumped economic boom, matters change. The recession, then, is not an aberration crying out for correction; it is itself the correction for the unsustainable economic bubble that preceded it. It should be welcomed in the same way we welcome a sober day after a drunken evening, or the detoxification of an addict after a period of addiction.

But here again, government begins with a view of cause and effect that conforms to its institutional wishes. The recession is the problem, and the only problem, and it can be corrected through the usual means: issuing orders, passing laws, and giving more power to the right people.

It gets worse. A recession contains at least one feature that turns out to be a saving grace for consumers who are hit with economic instability. In the midst of layoffs, tighter lending standards, and a riskier entrepreneurial environment, at least there are some sectors that have declining prices. At least in some areas, the purchasing power of money is rising. This makes life a bit easier. In times when there is very little good news, this is something to hang on to.

But instead of seeing falling prices as the silver lining in the recessionary cloud, government (and the media as an echo) sees them as the cause of all other problems. So, wouldn’t you know, government sets out to stamp out falling prices on the theory that if this succeeds, the entire economy will rise like a phoenix from the ashes.

This was the view during the Great Depression. Herbert Hoover’s and then FDR’s economic team was convinced that falling prices represented not a saving grace but a mortal economic sin. They spent more than ten years trying to make all prices rise. This, they believed, would cause recovery. They tried inflating the money supply. They tried wage and price floors, with vigilante enforcement, and even all-around industrial price planning. Finally, FDR tried the ultimate sand-in-your-face tactic: he went to war, and sent all those unemployed folks to foreign lands to kill and be killed, or to make-work jobs in the military-industrial complex, the CCC on steroids.

What did we learn from that debacle? Let’s make it official: we have learned nothing from our experience during the Great Depression. Even now, people are under the impression that falling prices cause recessions. Here is proof from the lead to this New York Times story: “With sinking home values continuing to drag down the economy...â€

[can't sit still]

The saddest chapter of this whole financial mess is that it's a royal screw job for the elderly. Most of them busted ass all their lives and expected to relax during their last few years. They paid into pension plans and social security.
"Since the credit crunch hit last fall, pension plans funded by S&P 1500 companies have lost about $280 billion in assets, according to an actuary at Mercer, a human resources consulting firm."
Granny has to slit her wrists or beg to move in with the kids,,,, just to exist. Sad

[can't sit still]

If y'all are thinking of moving to a place with a better economy, here's an article that examines every state. http://itulip.com/forums/showthread.php ... #post39709
It's a good article. You might want to head over to Oklahoma, Dan

[can't sit still]

As everyone already knows, the GSEs Freddie and Fannie are insolvent They insure a few trillion in mortgages. Problem is,, they are leveraged like a hedge fund. They're imploding like hedge funds. It hasn't helped that all the mortgage banks offloaded their most toxic shit loans to Freddie, Fannie and the treasury.
When you buy their stock, it specificly states that they are not backed by the federal GOV.
Now, Paulson is saying that GOV needs to let entities fail. No one is sure just what he means. Freddie and Fannie are just too big to bail out and too big to let fail.
Funny thing is, they had their capital reserve requirements reduced by 200 billion just a few months ago. Now, their out of money. If GOV prints up a few trillion, it makes the dollar more worthless. If GOV doesn't bail them out, the Chinese, Japanese and Sauds are left holding the bag. Either way, the Chinese get a screwing.
China has about 1.7 trillion in foreign reserves,, much of it dollars. It sounds like a lot of money. Problem is, Chinese banks have 1.4 trillion in bad loans. The Chinese stock market has lost 50%. With American consumers slowing down, the Chinese are going to see big slowdowns. Now, their dollars are losing value every day.
People are desperate to get rid of dollars. They even bought the Chrysler building and the Empire State building. As they repatriate their dollars, our economy heats up even more. $10 for a loaf of bread is not that far off.
In a few days, the Iranian oil bourse opens up for business. http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... e-oil-bomb
They take Euros only. That is the main reason that Bush threatens Iran with war.
Saddam opened an oil bourse in a non-dollar currency. That signed his death warrant. Europe will now buy their oil directly in Euros instead of having to convert to dollars. Nobody wants the dollar. Even our staunch ally israel is demanding their heaps of foreign aid in euros instead of dollars. Condi was happy to quickly comply.
We can thank Nixon and the Viet-Nam war for the start of the decline of the dollar,,, and bush for the final act.

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

Well another bank is gone, more jobs in the tech industry, and they are still advising against investing in oil stock (all time high profits), the housing market is still sliding in a downward spiral (the rich are standing nearby, salavating at the prospect of getting real estate at 10% of it's net value).


I'm going today to pull half my money out of the bank, with the plan to only leave 10% and the rest liquid. I think I better hurry.....








the rebbi

[Ugly Dougly]

They didn't get rich by buying high and selling low.
One of many tips you'll learn by signing up for my seminars!

[can't sit still]

Rabbi, did you get some good thunderstorms in the desert?
Ugly, you say that you're giving seminars???? What a co-incidence-- so am I. I teach people how to make money giving seminars. It's very complicated. My clients have to take about 4 years of my classes before they get it all figured out.

All the banks reported to the St. louis FED that they have negative unborrowed capital. They admit that they're insolvent. Some ex honcho from the FED mentioned that Indybank was having problems. That was enough for a run on the bank. BTW, there is 1 billion at Indymac that isn't insured.
All our banks would have the same problem if people started to take out their money. That's what fractional-reserve banking is all about.
The thing to buy is silver. The world is rapidly running out of it. Now that they've perfected a way to make catalytic convertors out of silver rather than platinum, palladium and rhodium, silver is going to be in even more demand. Rhodium now costs $9675 an ounce.
FYI, the FDIC insures about 1.7 trillion in deposits. Bankers HATE to see money just sitting around,,, not invested. That's why they have so little reserves. The FDIC only has about 200 billion. they could smoke that in no time.
The FSLIC went broke in the savings and loan meltdown. It's been re-capitalised but it doesn't have much reserve either.
Strangely enough, the FED itself is burning up capital trying to prop up problem institutions.
The damn white house is trying to re-ignite the housing bubble. Our shit-for-brains politicians are firm believers in Keynesian economics. The #1 rule is grow or collapse. WE didn't have enough kids to fulfill the grow part, so they opened the borders. Anything to grow.
The shrub siphoned off so much money that growth wasn't possible.
Since we're non-competitive in so many areas, we've lost our momentum.
We aren't going to build houses and we aren't going to sell a whole lot of manufactured goods . What are we going to do?
Mexico is our third biggest oil supplier. In 8 years, they will be an importer. They're losing tourism because of crime. What will Mexico do when their national income is reduced 60% ? How will that affect the US job market?

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

I read somewhere today there are a number of other American banks tettering on the edge, and may not make it through next week.




the rebbi

[can't sit still]

Rabbi, the stockholders are leaving as fast as they can. It's the depositors who are late getting the message. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/busin ... ref=slogin
This next thursday and friday, several banks will be reporting their losses. Citi negative 12 Billion, WAMU negative a few billion.

What did they expect to happen? They kept reserves of under 5% and then they lent to everyone who walked through the door.
The TAF window at the FED has loaned 1/2 trillion so they could keep their doors open. The banks have almost no income and the TAF loans are for 28 days. It would take about 40 trillion to bail out the banks. It would take 15% of our entire GDP to bail out Freddie and Fannie <5>

The SWFs have closed their collective wallets. There's no one left to steal from. They're trying to find new suckers to bankroll Peter to pay Paul. They have instituted a new debit card that draws from your 401-K. There is $1.4 B in 401-Ks. The banks have invested this and lost it. $ 1.4 Billion is chump-change to them. Your 401 is gone.

If the banks have negative capital,,,, you have negative capital. Your deposit is technically just a loan to the bank. They can make you wait 30 days for a withdrawal.
Buffet said that $513 trillion in derrivatives is going to go up in smoke.
It's going to be a very painful extraction.
I hope that all people of good will are prepared and survive nicely. I also hope that all people of bad will,,,,, commit suicide over this.
Once you see trouble in the bond markets, the job losses will really kick in.....sorry, Dan

[Ugly Dougly]

The FDIC only has about 200 billion. they could smoke that in no time.

There's a place in Amsterdam that I am sure would be glad to take their money.

$18 an ounce for silver? It's been a long time since I checked it.

Putting about $1000 into "junk" silver, preferably dollar coins, would be a good choice.

[can't sit still]

There's a place in Amsterdam that I am sure would be glad to take their money.
You must mean the place down the street from the "banana bar"

$18 an ounce for silver? It's been a long time since I checked it.
Silver is at $19. For the last several years,the US has consumed more silver than it produced. The world is fast running out.

Putting about $1000 into "junk" silver, preferably dollar coins, would be a good choice.[/quote]
I bought "silver bag" because it has the lowest margin. If we had to do barter,etc, It would be hard to slice off pieces of a 100 oz silver bar to buy food. A friend bought a bunch of silver dollars off a guy in the street. He mentioned it to his sister-in-law. She told him that there are zillions of fakes. Sure enough, his dollar coins stick to a magnet.
Apparently the mexican mafia ia branching out.
The local coin shop said that some guy brought in Krugerands that were only 40% gold.
I read that people are stealing brass headstones from graves and stainless steel slides from the parks,,,,, in Japan.
There has been so many job niches destroyed or offshored that there just aren't enough jobs. We work for luxuries. We can't possibly compete with people who work for survival.
When all is said and done, the price of a house has to reflect the wages in the local economy. In many areas, the price of a house is below the cost of the construction materials. I doubt that we'll see big houses built like before. They cost way too much to heat.
We're in for a big contraction/adjustment.

[MoisturePup]

There's a place in Amsterdam that I am sure would be glad to take their money.
You must mean the place down the street from the "banana bar" :oops:

$18 an ounce for silver? It's been a long time since I checked it.
Silver is at $19. For the last several years,the US has consumed more silver than it produced. The world is fast running out.
...oyed or offshored that there just aren't enough jobs. We work for luxuries. We can't possibly compete with people who work for survival.
When all is said and done, the price of a house has to reflect the wages in the local economy. In many areas, the price of a house is below the cost of the construction materials. I doubt that we'll see big houses built like before. They cost way too much to heat.
We're in for a big contraction/adjustment.

I'm glad you're still posting dude.

[can't sit still]

Thanks, Mr. Pup. I take Larry Harvey's ideas to heart. It's SO easy to just look out for yourself and let the rest of the world take a screwing. When i saw that the fundamentals of this financial upheaval were different than the previous recessions, I wanted to call people's attention to the problem.
I've spent a lot of time in poor countries. I've always thought that we have it too good here. Most things eventually revert to the mean. How long were we going to maintain our standard of living? How many people were we going to have to kill?

All the reports say that our standard of living is going to drop substantially. A little bit of preparation goes a long way. If you have an hour to spare, there is an excellent interview about how the spectulators and short-sellers have completely raped the economy. http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2008/Burrell.html
Just click on your media type. It's accurate and disturbing.

The Bank for International Settlements has been warning about this scenario for a few years. There was plenty of time for central banks to change their policies. They didn't. BIS now says that this will probably be worse than the 29 crash. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/06/ ... n-not.html Radical self-reliance is upon us.

[can't sit still]

Maybe you're wondering if your bank is on the hit list;

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission issued an emergency order on Tuesday placing restrictions on the short selling of shares of certain major financial firms.

The SEC's order will require that anyone effecting a short sale in these securities arrange beforehand to borrow the securities and deliver them at settlement.

The order takes effect Monday, July 21, and will terminate at the end of July 29. The SEC said the order may be extended, but for no more than 30 calendar days in total duration.

The agency identified the following securities affected by its order:

BNP Paribas Securities Corp
Bank of America Corp
Barclays PLC
Citigroup Inc
Credit Suisse Group

Ditch CITI,,, maybe go for Sumitomo. The Japanese are much more cautious and they have loads of money

[can't sit still]

What does it all mean? Where is at all going? Obviously, I don't have the answers. There is an example that we can examine.

"Do you remember the crash of the Japanese stock market during the late 1980s and the stagflation of the 1990s? Japan's stock-and-real-estate-market meltdown was extraordinary and mostly ignored by the Western press -- it was essentially a contained Depression with a whole generation of Japanese salary men left hung out to dry. Today, Japanese houses are selling at 1/10th their peak value during the 1980s, and most Tokyo commercial real estate sells for less than 1/100th of its peak prices from the same decade"
It appears that the administration is trying mightily to "goose" the economy to avoid the same thing here. The apparently insurmountable problem is that developed countries can't survive if they go head-to-head with low-wage economies.
Japan has been stagnated for over 18 years. What does that imply for our economy? Keep in mind that Japan doesn't have any of the huge military expenses of ongoing wars and maintaining bases in 180 countries.

Corrected for inflation, American wages haven't gone up since 1971. Japanese wages have been stagnant for decades and are now going down.
The outsourcing is just a sign that many big companies see no future in America. Now, many of them are moving their entire operation east.

The latest rumors say that the market is betting on America defaulting on it's debt.
Given the current account deficit, America's only hope for a bright future [outside of politics] is to come up with an idea that will undercut production costs enough to make American competitive again. If we could escape the grip of the oil barons who control energy, there might be a chance.
The oil companies are kinda screwed. By failing to keep the cost of oil down, they have increasingly opened the door to alternative energy.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/07/blackl ... money.html
We will see, Dan

[ygmir]

I'm stocking up on stuff I need.
I'll be buying 2,000 gals of propane next week, for a total of 3,500 gals in storage here....enough for several years........and, at bulk rates, it'll save a bundle.......and, propane doesn't go bad or get old......and, you can even run your cars on it. Also bought a propane genset.

extra tires (I bought a tire machine as well), Booze, and, have started a business making raised planter box/gardens for people to grow their own veggies.....and, supplement my own........

"Circle the wagons", I'd think........get stuff that keeps but you'll always need.
You may not make money, but, the money you'll save will be sweet.......

out of circulation silver U.S. coins are good, as stated, they have a known weight, so, you're not carving off a piece of silver bar..........

Just some thoughts,
Ygmir

[can't sit still]

Ygmir, Erri 2000 has some property in Nevada and was was looking for participants to build a community. It's pretty tough to find people who are willing and able to convert open dirt to something livable.
Nobody knows how soon we crash,,, if we crash,, and what the outcome will be.
There is a group, The International Forcaster, who has a good site. Go to their site, read their archives, look at their projected timeline and decide for yourself. Their timeline has been very accurate ,,,, to my recollection. Their latest forcast is beyong grim; http://www.rense.com/general82/podint.htm

There is another group. If I'm not confused from 3--12 hours a day of reading, it's a Swiss think-tank. Their projection has been accurate for a few years. http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-22-is-ava ... a1298.html

It's great that you're getting prepared. You must keep in mind that it's very important what preparations others have made. If there is a major hiccup in the economy, it's hard to envision timely deliveries of all the needed food suplies. If 100 people came to you begging for a potatoe to feed their kids,,,,, what will you do?
Dan

[ygmir]

HI Dan,
I, too, have property in Nevada, and, a small place in the high Sierra's.
I've spent years out there, being an avid rockhound........
I've also gotten most of the equipment and tools needed......backhoe, crane, heavy, all wheel drive military trucks, that are also "multi-fuel", meaning they were designed to run on anything liquid and flammable....even used motor oil, pain thinner, etc........along with metal and wood tools.....
sure, I can't have everything, but, if a person can cover some stuff, hopefully, others in a "community" can add to it........
Years ago, I ran across a place selling broken bags of dried grains and legumes, etc, for pennies.....I bought 3,000 lbs and sealed them in a completely dry storage container filled with Argon at 5 psi and sealed......
herbs and oils, etc, for medicinal use.
So, yeah, if people come begging to feed their kids, I'd help to the best of my ability........and require, if at all possible, they bring something to the table, for all.........

It's kind of a strange (to some) hobby, trying to be self-reliant, in the extreme......But, even as a kid, I loved those "end of the world" movies........

Oh yeah, and, books, real, paper, reference materials. No CD drive necessary. Lots of info...........

In a sense, part of my Burning Man fascination and enjoyment is related to the potential for it to be a "preview" of things to come......and hope that it could work anywhere near as well if it weren't an option.......

ok,
I'm done babbling........this is a hobby I do enjoy.......

Ygmir

[can't sit still]

Ygmir, I'm impressed. You're realy serious about preparation. Argon and all. Keep in mind, there's an old joke; "if things come crashing down, I'm going to grab the first Mormon that I can find and take his food"
IF things go real bad, crop cultivation will be very important. Potatoes will grow anywhere. If people show up for dinner, have them go out and dig it up,,,,,, and plant a few more.

The SEC has severly limited short-selling on 19 financial istitutions. They are NOT limiting short-selling on WAMU and Wachovia. They will , apparently, be thrown to the dogs.
Morgan-Chase says that we are only at the very start of the loss curve. They say that "prime' is now blowing. It was reconed that Alt-A would blow before prime.
The capatalist system is flawed in that it engenders run-away greed. Hyper-greed can always be trusted to over-reach. We are in the resultant contraction from an over-reach of the banks. As GOV tries to protect the banks, it sacrifices the little guy. You are on your own.

[ygmir]

well,
thanks.......

The take a Mormon thing.......I (think) I've prepared for that, too......several of us have a plan, and, alternates. Part of that protecting what we have..........

I agree about crop cultivation, that's why I'm part of the company I described earlier, also to help others be able to eat....and, here, we're lucky in that our public water system is all gravity fed, so, even without power, it'll work.

I see the financial stuff you talk about....it's really wierd, to see how "paper" (money) can ruin things......even worse, just a bunch of electrons (digital data)......yikes!!!!

One of the big questions with the "EOW" scenerio, at least for me is:
To move, or, to dig in and stay..........

dig in is obvious, as far as making your "area" as safe and procuctive as possible,

I guess the best, at least that I've come up with, is, to be adaptable......
and have some ability to do both (multi fuel, 10 wheel drive trucks and ability to load them quickly).

Just some random thoughts,
Ygmir

[can't sit still]

YGMIR, tell me, what does an unabashed Nordic Pagan do? Does it involve tall blonde women and sweat lodges??
Count me in.
As far as the question of wether to dig in and stay or flee, it depends on what's coming down the track. EVERYTHING depends on the continuity of the supply of diesel fuel.
My impression of the state of preparedness of GOV is that they appear to be preparred for insurrection,,,, not disaster. I'm sure that there are contingency plans to keep the military supplied with fuel. Heaven forbid the military runs a little short so that the farmers can get their crops planted.
Power sems to attract the corrupt and incompetent. THEY are running the show. From what I understand, FEMA and HS have lots of attack and surveilance helicopters,,,, none for rescue. They figure that the national guard will do that. Of course, the nat guard equipment is all trashed in Iraq.
There are whispers of the US defaulting on it's debt. Will "they" send us oil if they aren't going to get paid? Yeah,,, right. "They" includes Iran, Nigeria and Venezuela. ....Our bosom buddies. If we default, Saudi will lose about a trillion. That won't make them warmhearted.

You can rest assured that if there is a hiccup in diesel supplies, the little guy isn't going to get any. FEMA released a great doc with pics showing how to make a producer gas plant that will go right on to the front of a tractor. It's made with a 55 gal drum and a trash can,,, etc. You can run your tractor on firewood.
If you're feeling real ambitious, you could make an electric tractor. It could solar charge up on it's idle days. Just start with a fairly new electric forklift. They have an axial flux permanent magnet motor. Extremely effecient. A weld here and a nip-and-tuck here and you have a great electric tractor.
It's great that you're well provisioned for contingiencies. The have-nots will call you a hoarder and get GOV to lighten your load.
Dan

[ygmir]

I do love tall blonde's (women as far as sexually), but all in general......and, a sweat lodge can be anywhere you make enough heat......

I agree whit you "what's coming down the tracks" saying, ergo my adaptability idea...

I have a dis-connect, or, maybe (quite possibly), I don't understand the equation you use for the U.S. defaulting and us getting oil........the government doesn't pay for the oil, do they? Is there a brokering I'm not aware of?
wouldn't your favorite oil company still charge us money and take that money and send some to your favorite oil producing nation for more oil?.........

I know what you're saying about how they may not like our country/government, but, I'm not so sure they'd feel that way towards Standard Oil, et al........

Part of my large propane supply is that diesel and gas engines can both run on it.........( I just took delivery of 1500 gals to top off my 'reserve'.....2.15/gal. Yikes, it sure has gone up......)
and, Propane refrigerators take no electricity at all.........and very little propane......

That producer gas is viable and interesting, a good old technology.......

I'd think with the limited power of an electric tractor, a few healthy people could do the work as fast.....and if you had a mule, or, perhaps, a herd of Yaks.........well........

some may well call me a 'hoarder' even though I bought and paid for everything I have.....but, with what I hope will be a faithful close knit community, we have a decent chance of holding off civilians, recall the "cold, dead fingers" saying........

And, of course, no one can defend against an Apache helicopter or Abrams tank.....so, that's the "load what we can and bug out" part......

And,
I hope none of it comes to this.
I hope my daughter can grow up in a peaceful world, maybe not as hedonistic and materialistic as ours, but, at least safe and healthy.......
And, I work towards those ends.

I'd just rather be wrong and stuck with a bunch of rice and propane, maybe a few big army trucks and shootin' irons, than, need 'em and not have 'em........

[can't sit still]

Here's a few nuggets of info; Indymac was NOT on the list of troubled banks. "IndyMac will deplete a tenth of the $53bn reserve of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. The FDIC has some 90 "troubled" lenders on watch. IndyMac was not one of them"
Our credit card has ben curtailed;" The Fannie/Freddie rescue, incidentally, has just lifted the US national debt from German 'AAA' levels to Italian 'AA-' levels."
"Alex Patelis from Merrill Lynch says America faces the risk of a "financing crisis" within months. Foreigners have a veto over US policy." That might be a good thing.
"If we are lucky, America will start to stabilise before Asia goes down. Should our leaders mismanage affairs, almost every part of the global system will go down together. Then we are in trouble."
"Mismanage",,,, no way,, never happen. Time to party

[ygmir]

well, then, let's hang on for the ride, it is, after all, an "E" ticket........

And, if it all goes down together, doesn't it all stay relative?.........

I dunno........

[can't sit still]

More numbers;
24. There is roughly $6.84 Trillion in bank deposits. $2.60 Trillion of that is uninsured. There is only $53 billion in FDIC insurance to cover $6.84 Trillion in bank deposits. Indymac will eat up roughly $8 billion of that.

25. Of the $6.84 Trillion in bank deposits, the total cash on hand at banks is a mere $273.7 Billion. Where is the rest of the loot? The answer is in off balance sheet SIVs, imploding commercial real estate deals, Alt-A liar loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds, toggle bonds where debt is amazingly paid back with more debt, and all sorts of other silly (and arguably fraudulent) financial wizardry schemes that have bank and brokerage firms leveraged at 30-1 or more. Those loans cannot be paid back.

What cannot be paid back will be defaulted on. If you did not know it before, you do now. The entire US banking system is insolvent.

By Mike "Mish" Shedlock

It's easy to see that all the banks would fail if patrons withdrew their money. The international financial community and the central bankers have made all currencies into trash,,,, equally. They want to insure There's no place to put your money that you could expect it to hold value.

Interestingly enough, it isn't just the middle class that is going broke. Last years Bildeberger conference was held at a posh hotel with rates starting at $250. This years conference was reportedly held at a modest place with rates starting at $99.
Apparently europe is crashing faster than the US. If the Illuminati bankers drank the koolade and invested in high-yield bonds [and didn't get out in time] , maybe they'll crash and burn with the common bankers. We can always hope

[ygmir]

Here's my list of the most valuable (arguably) or at least most sought after items in times of desperation, depression, and general anarchy:

Booze ( to include pot)
tobacco
Chocolate
Porn (printed on paper)

Historically, these items are the most traded and stolen......and have great value in these times, possibly, ahead.........

any thoughts?

Ygmir

[can't sit still]

YGMIR, there was a recently released study on our great depression. Reportedly GOV massaged the pop figures but it showed badly. Reportedly there were 7 million who starved to death. I'm sure that food staples are high on your list even though they weren't shown.
I recently put up a post with a link on the other thread "Random Thoughts" There is no food left in this country.
While chocolate would be high on anyone's list, booze and wacky tabbacky would be great for escape. It all depends on where you are. Heating oil may be number 1. Maybe ammo,,, maybe toilet paper. It all depends.
As our solar system gets closer to alignment with the galactic plane, Sol will be subject to a bit more gravity. IF this causes more coronal mass ejections, we are more likely to take a direct hit. This happened to Quebec. Their power grid acted like a big antenna. The grid was down for days. This would call for certain things.
If the dollar collapses and bush orders martial law, there will be a different set of problems.
Since we're so divorced from our food production, food seems to be most susceptible to disruption. Maybe you should add pasta and diesel fuel to your list. Better than gold and silver