curious about bandits

chynaisdead · Post by **chynaisdead** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:49 am

This year I plan to be at burningman. I do want to be prepared so I have a question regarding thievery. I know there is bound to be one or 2 bandits there and I want to know how relativly save my tent, stuff, food will be from them.
Have there been major problems in the past with theft? Should I padlock my coolers or take shifts in guarding?
Sure would just love to get to know my neighbors and be cool like that and not worry. whadayasay?

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:00 pm

I have gone for the past five years, and the only banditry I witnessed was from within our own camp. I would recommend, if possible, that you camp with other people whom you know and/or trust. We have a relatively good-sized camp (we expect up to 20 or so staying with us this year) with a lot of interaction from the citizens of BRC. The only time we ever even bother to lock the RVs is the night of the burn when no one else is around. If you keep your tent zipped up, bike locked, and ice chest out of sight, my experience has been you'll be fine. On the other hand, if you have a campmate with a drug problem, all bets are off.

The Doc

chynaisdead · Post by **chynaisdead** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:38 pm

thanks Doc, that was the medicine I was looking for. No drug problems but since my partner will be the only one I will know, I am off to find some friends and BM veterans. Do you have any advice about joining a camp?

-Where are the auditions held?

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:10 pm

It should be noted that while theft is a fairly rare occurence in BRC it does happen. Bike theft seems to be the biggest problem, but I also know people that have had money, headphones, records, art, El wire and even gas stolen. The best advice I could give would be to:
A. Don't bring anything that you couldn't live with having stolen, lost or damaged.

B. Lock up your valuables. (especially your bike, since they seem to be the most often stolen).

C. Get to know your neighbors so that you can watch out for each other.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:16 pm

Thievery, in my opinion, has been a overblown "problem" at BM, mostly just rumors but it can happen. Simple precautions will negate any probability of it happening to you.

The biggest thing to be concerned about is your bicycle. Bikes are rarely "stolen" but often "borrowed" by a participant who is either under the influence and mistook your bike for theirs, or by an asshole who just doesn't care and wants to get back to camp quickly. Solution; Lock you bike whenever you stop and walk away, even back at camp. Also, take a 6 inch by 1 1/2 foot piece of cloth and write your name, camp address, and real world contact address on it (home address, phone number, or email address) and tie it to the cross bar of your bike. This way, if your bike is found (durring or after BM), the bike can make its way back to you.

Jewelry; try and leave any expensive jewelry at home. If an expensive item is a part of your costume, store it in a safe place (hidden, locked away, ect.) when you're not in costume.

Cash; you're only going to need cash on hand for ice and mabe a chi at the center cafe. You may wish to have an emergency reserve of cash hidden somewhere for an extreem emergency (auto breakdown, hotel room while your car is fixed, food for the layover, or even just buying something you forgot to pack) but can likely use credit cards instead. Stash your credit cards in a safe or unlikely place (fridge, back of an RV cabinet, ect.) You won't need the cards on-playa, just don't forget where you hid em. Cash for ice'n'chi should be hidden but easily accessable. put it inside your pillow case, bottom of your clothing napsack, under the bandaids of your medkit, ect. The likelyhood of someone ramsacking your camp looking for cash is insignificant. Unless you're waiving fistfulls of greenbacks to everyone walking by, it's a low concern.

Food; the chance of food being nicked is pretty close to nill. Its slightly more likely that booze might walk away but since so many people give away drinks, it probably won't happen.

Overall, theft is rare, but would suck if it happened to you.

Hope that helps

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

chynaisdead · Post by **chynaisdead** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:17 pm

Well I'd say my most valued things would be my food and water. Maybe I won't discard the padlock just yet.

I will definitly take your advice on getting to know my neighbors. I found a Chicago messageboard and plan to find some likeminded burners to travel/camp with.

Thanks CHai Guy

chynaisdead · Post by **chynaisdead** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:24 pm

yeah it does help rodent. Also makes me count my lucky stars. 1...2...3
that I'm not a terror magnet. I'm sure I'll be fine.
I was just curious you know. There's always at least 1 a**hole in the bunch so I thought perhaps you guys would have some tips . . which you did.
Cheers

hageymon · Post by **hageymon** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:37 pm

I've been going to Burning Man since 1997, every year, and my camp has grown every year too, up to about sixty people last year, and to my knowledge NOBODY has ever lost anything to thievery from our campsites, with the exception of only one little itsy bitsy teenie weenie item that I lost to a Thieving Prick in 2001, which I would disclose offlist only, but still a remarkable record for seven years. I believe, as a result, that the thievery issue is way overblown and not a significant concern.

Plus, I have been opening up my HOME, in Sparks, to Burners on their ways to the Burn, also, for the last several years. Over 450 people came through my doors last year and NOT ONE ITEM belonging to me sprouted legs, nor anyone else's stuff either, as far as I know.

Call me naive, if you will, but my experience with Burners is that they are my fucking FAMILY and I TRUST them.

That's MY two cents worth...

Hageymon. www.blackrockburnerhostel.com

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:52 pm

I keep my wallet and an extra key hidden in my car where they aren't likely to be found by a casual thief. A small stash of cash goes in a more accessible location for ice runs. I refuse to lock anything else up. Not my bike, not my car, and certainly not my cooler. I don't bring anything that I can't live without and feel it would make my trip less pleasurable to constantly be worried about thieves. Even if some critical item were stolen there's more than enough helpful burners around to pitch in.

3 trips for me and nothing stolen so far. Someone in my camp last year got his bike stolen. It was a generic cheapie bike so my guess is someone mistook it for his own bike or thought it wouldn't be missed too much. My recommendation is to decorate your bike to make it really stand out.

If you have anything that's easily carried away and valuable you could certainly lock it up, but for the rest of your gear I wouldn't bother.

hageymon · Post by **hageymon** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:03 pm

Amen, Brother... Hallelujah!

Otisserie · Post by **Otisserie** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:08 pm

I had some inhibitions stolen...or maybe I just lost them.

hageymon · Post by **hageymon** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:37 pm

After seven years of Burning Man, I've pretty much lost ALL of my inhibitions, and it feels GOOD...

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:19 pm

And just as a follow up to my earlier post, I have never had anything lost or stolen in the past 7 years either (save for one item, which I later found the person using on the playa, and I was able to recover it and had to be restrained from almost killing her). I just wanted to make people aware that theft does occur (although rarely) and some precautions are probably a good idea.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:13 pm

Lost buckets of bolts & such to theft my second year in 1997, and a ratchet driver last year to a fuckwit borrower.

My theory:

- locking up valuables is a deterrent to theft

- the fewer valuables the better

- the less valuable the better

- YMMV

Please browse through the Did anyone find my... lost & found area among the eplaya index topics to get an idea of the what & why of losing & finding.

I'm not sure there is a clear correlation between camping with other people and incidence of theft. I usually camp with others, but have been essentially alone early and late in the period of the event, and experienced no difference other than in my own wariness. Campmates are just as likely to borrow food or drink as neighbors, I think, and probably more likely to borrow tools and bikes and such and forget where they got them. I wouldn't disagree too much with what others have said, and if you feel uncomfortable with the idea of "bandits", then maybe you should do your best to hook up with people you feel you can trust.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:18 pm

Last year I had a whole bunch of booze stolen out of my (unlocked) car the
Saturday before the event started. We arrived Saturday morning, and
friends who'd been working for DPW for a few weeks warned us that some
people had been rifling through trailers and coolers, mostly stealing
booze.

It's the first time I've locked my car at the event (well, since the first year
when I had to leave my car unattended on the outskirts because we were
in Center Camp and there was no space left by the time we arrived).

In general, theft at the event, in my experience, is in two categories:
fucktards on drugs, and targeted theft.

The former happens when people either lose their inhibitions or lose their
self-sufficiency. It's generally limited to shiny things left out at night, water
(in small quantities), and bikes. A friend had blankets stolen out of his
truck last year from where it was parked on Esplanade. He assumes
whoever took them was too high to remember where they came from,
and that's why they weren't returned.

The latter happens more often now than it did when I started going in '98,
but it's by no means the norm. Last year a campmate came out of the
shower to discover four guys going through his coolers and snagging his
liquor. Fortunately he's a big guy with a lot of patience, and aside from a
slightly sore neck from being held in a headlock, none of the thieves
suffered any damage, and we suffered no losses. However, we rarely left
the camp completely unattended. There's also a different vibe on burn
night, and since the magic of the burn has more or less worn off for me I
tend to take responsibility for hanging around camp and keeping an eye
on things.

I don't mean to sound like an alarmist. Theft is much, much rarer than
anywhere in the real world. Most people would much rather return your
stuff to you than take advantage of your having lost it. But, you know,
take precautions. Keep valuables locked in your car. Don't leave anything
out (or in fact take anything to the event) that you'd be heartbroken to
lose. Know your neighbors. All the good stuff that people have already
said.

hageymon · Post by **hageymon** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:45 pm

I, too, this year for the first time, decided to stay in camp on Burn Night to keep an eye on things. It's only obvious that the BEST night for a thief to do his dirty deeds without fear of discovery is when practically everyone has abandoned their campsites for the night. Every camp should discuss this issue beforehand and assign that responsibility to someone, in shifts perhaps, if a volunteer doesn't step forward.
We're a community, remember, and we gotta look out for each other.

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:32 am

I did hear a story, and I'm sure it's true but I've forgotten which year it occurred (maybe 2002?) where the people at the gate caught 2 empty U-Haul trucks trying to come into the event. The drivers had tickets I guess, but without water and food, it was pretty obvious what their intent was. I believe they were turned away at the gate and did not get in.

Last year we kept our vehicle locked, with most of our stuff in it. We had our food and water and clothes in our shelter area that was unlocked most of the time. Even then, we had a couple of small luggage locks that could be used to secure the zippers. Someone could have slashed our tent with a knife I suppose, but no one did. We were very careful to keep the bikes locked at all times, but we did bring bikes that could have been borrowed or stolen without any heartbreak anyway.

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:36 am

For those of you/us traveling from a distance, we were more worried about being ripped off en route than actually at the event itself. We considered renting a pickup truck for the trip, and ultimately didn't because we realized it would be easier for someone to take something out of the back of the truck than from the trunk of our car. In some ways the truck would have been better in terms of space usage, but we felt the car was more secure. We were careful to lock the car even when we were just making a "quick stop" for gas or rest rooms. I think the risk of being ripped off of a needed tent or camping stove on the highway was probably higher than having our booze lifted while on the playa, and certainly a more serious concern.

chynaisdead · Post by **chynaisdead** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:48 am

I hear what you're all screamin'. Over all it sounds pretty safe. Thanks those of you with the sound advice and those that were reassuring.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:24 pm

Icepack wrote:I did hear a story, and I'm sure it's true but I've forgotten which year it occurred (maybe 2002?) where the people at the gate caught 2 empty U-Haul trucks trying to come into the event. The drivers had tickets I guess, but without water and food, it was pretty obvious what their intent was. I believe they were turned away at the gate and did not get in.

This may have been an exaggeration of an incident from 2002. I was on radio at the time so can confirm this to be true.

An empty U-Haul (a singular U-Haul) was stopped and scrutinized at the gate for seeming suspicious. The U-Haul in question was allowed entrance but was shadowed while it drove to it's camp. I don't recall exactly the reason but my hazy memory is telling me that the driver's excuse for the empty vehicle was that he had to drive to Reno to pick someone up, but I might be wrong. The U-Haul drove exactly to the destination that the driver described as his camp. The camp seemed to have enough infrastructure to warrent a U-Haul. Regardless, the camp was periodicly checked on and the U-Haul stayed at camp for the rest of the week.

I'll defer to others for any info I might have wrong.

FYI, There have been unsubstanciated rumors of empty trucks, roaming the streets, picking up unlocked bikes and tossing them in the back. This rumor has had absolutely no shred of evidence to support it and is likely a BRC urban legend that is kept alive through campfire stories.

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:39 pm

rodent wrote:
Icepack wrote:I did hear a story, and I'm sure it's true but I've forgotten which year it occurred (maybe 2002?) where the people at the gate caught 2 empty U-Haul trucks trying to come into the event. The drivers had tickets I guess, but without water and food, it was pretty obvious what their intent was. I believe they were turned away at the gate and did not get in.
This may have been an exaggeration of an incident from 2002. I was on radio at the time so can confirm this to be true.

An empty U-Haul (a singular U-Haul) was stopped and scrutinized at the gate for seeming suspicious. The U-Haul in question was allowed entrance but was shadowed while it drove to it's camp. I don't recall exactly the reason but my hazy memory is telling me that the driver's excuse for the empty vehicle was that he had to drive to Reno to pick someone up, but I might be wrong. The U-Haul drove exactly to the destination that the driver described as his camp. The camp seemed to have enough infrastructure to warrent a U-Haul. Regardless, the camp was periodicly checked on and the U-Haul stayed at camp for the rest of the week.

I'll defer to others for any info I might have wrong.

FYI, There have been unsubstanciated rumors of empty trucks, roaming the streets, picking up unlocked bikes and tossing them in the back. This rumor has had absolutely no shred of evidence to support it and is likely a BRC urban legend that is kept alive through campfire stories.

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Sounds like the story I heard was a combination of urban legend (empty trucks picking up bikes) mixed with the actual empty UHaul showing up.

Waffen · Post by **Waffen** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:44 am

precipitate wrote:Last year I had a whole bunch of booze stolen out of my (unlocked) car the Saturday before the event started.
...
In general, theft at the event, in my experience, is in two categories:
fucktards on drugs, and targeted theft.

This post was, in my experience, the best description so far. Don't believe people who say worrying about theft is being alarmist.

I've been going for 9 years, and only the last three years have I had anything stolen. Last year was far and away the worst, with 5 separate incidents of theft. I'm sure this was partly because it was the first year I had an unlockable vehicle, but what it does say is that there are people out there actively searching for loot.

To be honest, this is one of the many reasons I doubt I'll be returning this year. The Playa in the past was an escape from reality for me, and last year in particular was far to close to the real world to be beyond belief.

To be fair, I've always been camped in the theme camp area, and I actually believe the more busy areas (closer to the Esplanade) are more prone to theft.

At least last year I was blessed with various offerings as well- including several incidents of human feces, your typical urination and about 2 bags worth of cans and bottles collected from the crevices of my art car.

Gotta love that self expression!

Take care,
Waffen

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:53 am

Having a highly decorated, distinctive bike isn't a guarantee that it won't be stolen, but it makes it less likely to be "innocently" mistaken for someone else's and easier to search for once it's "borrowed"....A tall bike flagpole (fiberglass) with a distinctive flag helps with location whether or not it's stolen, if you park anywhere near Center Camp.

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:32 pm

robotland wrote:Having a highly decorated, distinctive bike isn't a guarantee that it won't be stolen, but it makes it less likely to be "innocently" mistaken for someone else's and easier to search for once it's "borrowed"....A tall bike flagpole (fiberglass) with a distinctive flag helps with location whether or not it's stolen, if you park anywhere near Center Camp.

and to reinterate, put your camp address somewhere on it (flag, tie a piece of cloth, ect.). So if someone does accidentally ride away on your bike they might see the address and say "oh, shit, this isn't my bike... I should get this back to them..."

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:57 pm

FYI, There have been unsubstanciated rumors of empty trucks, roaming the streets, picking up unlocked bikes and tossing them in the back. This rumor has had absolutely no shred of evidence to support it and is likely a BRC urban legend that is kept alive through campfire stories.

Actually, that's not true.

Post-event several years ago, multiple reports of locals (Nevada tags on vehicles) trauling around the City with an inordinate number of bicycles in the beds were reported the night of the burning. The next year Rangers and Gate decided to scrutinize any large vehicles such as empty U-Hauls coming into the city. They were followed and their positions noted. Later during the burn, the Ranger RnR team staked out those encampments with the intent to see if the vehicles would be used to mule out any stolen bikes. Fortunately our suspicions didn't pan out. However we did catch several locals riding through camps who had been positively identified by alert participants. These guys were stopped by local LEOs and escorted out of the city in their pickup truck which contained an odd mixture of equipment that some of us suspected had been stolen. Unfortunately, we couldn't prove it so the bugs were sent out with no chance of getting back in.

III · Post by **III** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:58 pm

whatever happened with mustang?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:03 pm

whatever happened with mustang?

Honestly don't know. Went out one day and ended up feeling like Rangers were being asked to put someone out based more on a possible vendetta rather than anything factual - as far as I could see. I might be wrong but the situation was never fiully explained to me. Decided at that point that my role wasn't to do someone else's dirty work so I found other things to occupy my time.

III · Post by **III** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:14 pm

there was some bad blood there, but i also heard rumors of a whole roomful of suspicious (and well targetted) stuff.

none of the potential scenarios arising out of one or both of those situations would be out of line with previous events.

Borris · Post by **Borris** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:08 pm

III wrote:whatever happened with mustang?

Please elaborate...

Also haggy, i remember quite a few bikes going AWOL from our camp....

but then again. BRC is as safe as i have seen in the US.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:16 pm

You take my ride I will find you. The law will be with me and you go to jail. The little signal is working great.

curious about bandits

curious about bandits

Perhaps I/we have just been lucky, but...

Theft

Thieves

Another thought on thieves...

Re: Thieves

Re: Thieves