Rejected Mutant Vehicles

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:38 pm

Sorry Token. Not mutated enough. Try again next year.

Kenetic V, I think "term limits" for MV's are a bad idea. If they are still serving the community (drink!), they should be allowed. Most of us can't afford to shell out thousands to build a MV from scratch, only to be able to run it for 2-3 years. I know most of us have no other place that we can run these.

Captain Goddammit wrote:I don't recall any new rule saying that MVs HAVE to be able to carry a bunch of passengers, just that it's looked favorably on if they do. And if they don't they need to be especially cool.

Sorry, I should of clarified. Not a rule per se, but MVs that can't carry more than one or two are frowned upon as "personal vehicles"

mojo wrote:I think in large part the rule change, in itself, is ok. What is not good is that the same rules are absolutely not applied evenly. I wish I had a nickel for every MV last year that was far inferior, far less "mutated" than the one we were not allowed to bring, despite extensive modifications to bring it into line with the new guidelines. I've never said anything about it until now 'cause it just sounds like sour grapes.

Agreed. I saw this same thing with a few of the other posters. It's not the rules so much as the way they are applied in a haphazard and apparently biased manner.

Badger

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:41 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Kinetic V wrote: I'm sitting here thinking of La Contessa and how many times it sailed the playa.
I'd be happy if La Contessa was there every year! I just wish it had been in more responsible hands.

Sadly I never got to hop in and check out how she was put together.

She's the main thing that caught my eye my first year and put the burr in my saddle to build my own MV.

Badger

Funky Monkey Mech · Post by **Funky Monkey Mech** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:49 pm

at least you got to see her... 2007 was my first year.... so i will never see her in person because some dumb ass wanted to light her on fire

hope the guy who torched her cause he was pissed at BM gets his balls caught in a running blender....

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:22 pm

I knew my 3 year limit idea would touch a nerve. I understand that these vehicles as currently constructed are not cheap to build. Far from it...when it comes to BM expenses my fiancee learned really fast that normal accounting principles are not applicable. Anyway getting back to my point, while some MV's would be a good fit every year like LaContessa, you don't want to see someone just bring the same old thing every year and not invest in it. Part of what makes BM so special for me is the new infusion of different ideas I get to see and experience every year. I would like to see change encouraged.... and not promote things to stay static. After all this is an artist community...as we all work in our different mediums shouldn't we be challenged to display refinement of our existing techniques and ideas and showcase our newest innovations?

I hope the above thoughts are not misinterpreted...but along with paperwork and procedural consistency that can't be bribed or altered by someone taking off their clothes I would like to see innovation be given a high level of importance. After all nobody really knows who might make their first trip to BM and see something that inspires them to go back to Camp Reality and create something amazing....if we can promote artistic growth why not try and do so?

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:35 pm

This is why I stopped volunteering at the DMV. Wasn't fun telling someone you couldn't register their art car..after they brought it all the way out their... and had obviously spent a great deal of time and money on their vehicle.

I wouldn't blame the DMV or Burning Man..If the BLM had their way, their would be NO art cars. Certain criteria for art cars are handed down by the BLM..this is the compromise to keep art cars at Burning Man.

We have a strange relationship with the BLM..they do NOT want us their, but they certainly LOVE our money..

Funky Monkey Mech · Post by **Funky Monkey Mech** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:00 pm

Humm had an interesting idea for an art tank but i thin that would not get to far with the BMORG... even if could afford a surplus tank and modded it the way i wanted lol.... think it would get shot down.... would have bin funny for this years theme though to bad i just thought of it now lol

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:10 pm

Funky Monkey Mech wrote:Humm had an interesting idea for an art tank but i thin that would not get to far with the BMORG... even if could afford a surplus tank and modded it the way i wanted lol.... think it would get shot down.... would have bin funny for this years theme though to bad i just thought of it now lol

Ive been working on this one for a few years..not a stupid cardboard tank on a golf cart..but a 1:3 Scale Tiger I. Would shoot water during the day and spew fire at night. The cost would be astrnomical, unless you have access to cheap or free hydraulic equipment and a good friend who can cast parts.

Would comply with all the DMV regulations..that Im aware of. Tracked vehicles are not verboten.

FUCK that would be fun!!

Funky Monkey Mech · Post by **Funky Monkey Mech** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:15 pm

yeah i i was just thinking the same thing and ever once during the day just stick out a giant flag that says BOOM! on it like from the cartoons.... paint it up to look like the one from tank girl.... humm maybe with our powers combined we can make it happne.... i can do hydraulics, knew some of my military training would come in handy.... if anything we can make it all out of sheet metal and mount it on a heavy duty truck frame....

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:18 pm

The DMV blames the BLM?

Wow, I feel like gouging my eyeballs out now.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:21 pm

I think you could just have a row of wheels, at least four, on each side and forget the tracks and it would look fine, if you got the rest of it good enough.
If you gotta have tracks, look at old Sno-Cats. They have tracks that go around standard wheel/tire setups and are smaller than tank tracks.
If you can find an old SnoCat it would be a perfect chassis to do a tank mutant.

Funky Monkey Mech · Post by **Funky Monkey Mech** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:23 pm

humm thanks for the tip.... have to look my inspiration for wanting to do an art car some day was tank girl and that mega cool fire truck last year that actually shot fire

and photos i have seen of La Contessa.... come on tom what ya say? it is worth looking into...

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:34 pm

Bob wrote:The DMV blames the BLM?

Wow, I feel like gouging my eyeballs out now.

they might...havnt ben with them for years. If you want to Blame BMORG or DMV go ahead

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:41 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:I think you could just have a row of wheels, at least four, on each side and forget the tracks and it would look fine, if you got the rest of it good enough.
If you gotta have tracks, look at old Sno-Cats. They have tracks that go around standard wheel/tire setups and are smaller than tank tracks.
If you can find an old SnoCat it would be a perfect chassis to do a tank mutant.

Snow Cats go real cheap at auction...not much use for them in Benicia California. getting tracks is the biggest expense..and since it's already on a chassis with motor..would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Has to have tracks..

Funky Monkey Mech · Post by **Funky Monkey Mech** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:45 pm

True.... about the tracks another place to keep an eye on is GSA ( government) Auctions because they usually sell just about everything from military equipment to just about anything used by any federal agency... car trucks, military trucks, tug boats, aircraft, fire fighting equipment... etc etc.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:11 am

SnoCat might be worth checking into because they are also a helluva lot lighter than military stuff!

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:08 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:I'll tell you what's happening here Badger: the pissants who get just a whiff of authority somehow think their shit doesn't stink. We've known one another for awhile and will on occasion poke one another, but it's with a modicum of respect and understanding. These DMV Hotties have neither.

I overheard camp visitors saying pretty much the same thing in 2005. Haven't dealt with them personally but I decided not to build our MV project because of what people told me. Pretty discouraging. So I spraypainted my mountain bike instead.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:03 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:SnoCat might be worth checking into because they are also a helluva lot lighter than military stuff!

I've been shopping for a sno cat for a couple of years......
seems something that runs, whether a Tucker or Bombardier, et cetera, will run 5-10K, and, that's pretty darn used........and has the capacity for 4 or more people, as far as a weight rating goes.......
Tuckers are on 4 "pontoons" with tracks on each, and, articulated steering, or front radius,so, might make a little less dust and disturb the ground a little less, but, not much. the others are friction steer........like a bulldozer.

That's just the info I've found, your results may vary.......

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:30 am

Bob wrote:The DMV blames the BLM?

Wow, I feel like gouging my eyeballs out now.

It'd be nice to get some actual DMV people on here and see what they have to say about all this and how much of this is BLM rules.

Badger

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:09 am

(deleted. rinse and repeat) crazy editor..first said it wouldn't allow me to post then post my message twice...

I think we should have a virgin control policy myself. Kind of like a SAT entrance exam for newbies. When can I get my own bureau?

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:09 am

Kinetic V wrote:I knew my 3 year limit idea would touch a nerve. I understand that these vehicles as currently constructed are not cheap to build. Far from it...when it comes to BM expenses my fiancee learned really fast that normal accounting principles are not applicable. Anyway getting back to my point, while some MV's would be a good fit every year like LaContessa, you don't want to see someone just bring the same old thing every year and not invest in it. Part of what makes BM so special for me is the new infusion of different ideas I get to see and experience every year. I would like to see change encouraged.... and not promote things to stay static. After all this is an artist community...as we all work in our different mediums shouldn't we be challenged to display refinement of our existing techniques and ideas and showcase our newest innovations?

I hope the above thoughts are not misinterpreted...but along with paperwork and procedural consistency that can't be bribed or altered by someone taking off their clothes I would like to see innovation be given a high level of importance. After all nobody really knows who might make their first trip to BM and see something that inspires them to go back to Camp Reality and create something amazing....if we can promote artistic growth why not try and do so?

And should Leonardo da Vinci rework the Mona Lisa for your next trip to Paris?

No sense of tradition? And who always pays attention to the theme? What is the DMV for, safety? art critics? population control? social engineering?

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:38 am

SnoCat might be worth checking into because they are also a helluva lot lighter than military stuff!

But nowhere near as cool as taking a Zamboni to the playa to smooth and resurface the lakebed.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:57 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:...decided not to build our MV project because of what people told me. Pretty discouraging. So I spraypainted my mountain bike instead.

You're doing it ALL WRONG! How are you going to get ten hot chicks dressed like Betsy Ross puking in technicolor on top of that Huffy?

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:22 pm

Isotopia wrote:But nowhere near as cool as taking a Zamboni to the playa to smooth and resurface the lakebed.

And it's green too!

Eh screw all this. Next time I'm just building a human powered craft and letting DMV and the BLM suck it.

Badger

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:23 pm

It makes sense to me that the sheer numbers of vehicles that would otherwise be out there needs to be limited by a selection process. It's already like playing frogger just to walk across the playa at night.

My sadness stems from the feeling that this is the old "what is art" argument. But this time, it's being applied to burners who have already worked hard and spent their funds - and I know from experience that it hurts to have your creation rejected. "Don't bother bringing it, it's not good enough anymore", is pretty much what I heard.

The real kicker is that I qualify for a handicapped permit and did not request one - never considering that my MV would not be accepted again.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:02 pm

Marscrumbs wrote: And should Leonardo da Vinci rework the Mona Lisa for your next trip to Paris?

just an interjection on an interjection.

i want to see the white whale, la contessa and the dragonmuffin and the....out there forever......the TD vehicles are most likely barely street legal in the default world and have changed little since my first trip home in 2002. the point i was trying to make was directed toward the 'non-amazingly fantastic' MV's out there.

a zamboni would be funny.
there's a sno-cat that has been sitting just a stones throw from me for 6 months. I'll photo and inquire next time i have a sec.....

looks like this kinda

CapnJoe · Post by **CapnJoe** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:01 pm

Hi,
I am one of the Barbie Death Camp WEIRDO'S, this is my first burn, and I was looking foreward to riding on Tieland this year! Shit, it was good enough before, didn't we bribe the right people this year?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:46 pm

I always look forward to seeing Tieland.
They are always generous with rides and even letting people play with the very nice fire cannon.
Many mvs won't even slow down for you out there.
I couldn't get one single one to stop last year.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:28 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:I overheard camp visitors saying pretty much the same thing in 2005. Haven't dealt with them personally but I decided not to build our MV project because of what people told me. Pretty discouraging. So I spraypainted my mountain bike instead.

unfortunately i would now advise taking some pre-approval steps before any build committment. draw and describe the design then run it by them, they seem to appreciate that if its done early enough, but off-season its hard to get feedback since they are all volunteers and dont do it year-round. and i second asking a dmv person to reply here, there are a few sporadic lurkers including one inspector who is an awsome guy and tell you whats up.

ed: and i give some lovin for dork ...

Dork wrote:In my experience complaining online does little, no matter how informed, calm, and rational those complaints might be. You have to convince the right person, which means knowing the right people, volunteering for years and maybe getting lucky, or simply getting lucky. Been there, tried it, failed, gave up and found something else to do.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:05 am

Sorry to hear about the rejections.. but we were warned shortly after the burn last year.

Public trans in and personal vehicles out.

It really sucks that some sort of arrangement couldn't have been made to keep the art cars and just have "performances" setup somewheres.

Fuck it sucks that the art cars are out.. guess art is out and party barges are in.

American Dream theme and all... how about a protest with art cars? Would the ORG or BLM really respond Kent state style?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:49 am

I could envision all the "rejected" MV, art cars, etc, massing and driving, safe slowly of course, ala Mad Max, to, and through the entrance, announcing they'll not stop or be turned back.
Having tickets, and, following all other guidelines for attendance, of course......
That'd just make it about the cars........

Rejected Mutant Vehicles

DMV meta-guidelines.

DMV meta-guidelines

Re: DMV meta-guidelines

MV's