What do you like about America?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:33 pm

Is that a "Curtis" photo?.........
very nice.

Lurker:
I'd like to see some Brazillians, too.........

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:44 am

Sorry wombat, I got asked a question about my participation on the playa, and just lost myself. I'll try to stay on message. Thanks for the correction, it was just like being at work.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:52 am

I love America..because it's my home..I just happen to hate my government.

Timezone LaFontaine · Post by **Timezone LaFontaine** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:35 am

lurker wrote:
I guess you're talking about the U.S. ..."America" is a whole bunch of countries on a couple of continents.
Why do people feel the need to say this? In case you hadn't noticed theres a whole lot of countries on them continents that have names of their own. They're NOT 'America' at all. Only one country uses the name America and it's US(pun offended).

So please, see what a Brasilian does when you tell him he's an American--no matter what he thinks. K?

As thirt33n alluded much more eloquently than I can with no words at all, there are dozens of nations in the midst of the U.S. which could take exception to your definition of who is "NOT 'America' at all."

I do happen to know a couple-few South American folks and it could make for good conversation. But I don't tell anyone that they are something, "no matter what he thinks." Here's your K back. You can keep using it on your crusade against people who feel the need to say this.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:31 pm

As thirt33n alluded much more eloquently than I can with no words at all, there are dozens of nations in the midst of the U.S. which could take exception to your definition of who is "NOT 'America' at all."

What? With that picture of an aboriginal? Sorry, no.

Not a single tribe referred to themselves as 'American' when Europeans first settled here. And, many of them still do not see themselves as 'American' at all--save in the narrow confines of declaring themselves(via their ancestors) to have been here first.

They are Navajo, Sioux, Mohawk, Cherokee and a whole host of other nation/tribe names--just as Brasilians, Ecuadorans, Canadians, Mexicans, Chileans, Peruvians etcetera etcetera etcetera refer to themselves by the names of their respective nations

There are a great many among the Nations who DO call themselves 'American' along with their nation/tribes name. They do this because they live in the only nation in North, Central or South America that uses 'America' as part of it's name..

See, my comment did not belittle those who were here before the Europeans. It didn't exclude our fellow inhabitants of these land masses. It merely made the point that we all have our own names for the countries we live in on these land masses--and only one group of us chose to use the word 'America' in the name of our nation.

The rest din't. What right do you have to demean their nations just so you can stick your tongue out at the US? Are you really saying that you can't find anything more valid to complain about?

Timezone LaFontaine · Post by **Timezone LaFontaine** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:59 pm

Aah, you're just trying to bait me with your last questions. There's nowhere in this thread that I've 'stuck my tongue out at the US,' and the only thing I've complained about is your own snarkiness.

These continents are generally referred to as the Americas. My original point is that it's just simply a lot more precise for people to address their complaints about the U.S.A. specifically to the U.S.A., not to the word "America" which clearly encompasses something more than the U.S.A. That something more could mean a greater geographic expanse containing many nations, or something more theoretical related to "the American Dream," or sinister trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA, and so on.

So to rephrase, America is not exactly the same thing as the U.S.A. I don't use the terms interchangeably.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:03 am

I think history is the teacher here, and citizens of the United States are known as "Americans", or as "North Carolinian", etc. I doubt there is any reasonable person that would think of "going to America" means going to Chile, or Mexico, or Canada.

I am sure that when the German and the Italian armies fought the "Americans", they didn't think they were going into battle against Ecuador.

We have been Americans since before we were a nation, and that has been historically recognized and memorialized since the very beginnings of the European advance into the North American continent.

Timezone LaFontaine · Post by **Timezone LaFontaine** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:30 am

Yeah... I can see what you're saying. I guess the main point that chafes with me is just that using the terms interchangeably in my mind seems to imply that the common people can be considered the same as the government. But it could just be wishful thinking on my part that we could be considered different from the political/military structure that defines us as a nation.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:16 am

I suggest you read Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America (1830's), if you have not already. Keep in mind that America as a nation was still very young, and that this was a society that had just barely surpassed the Romans technologically (guns, steam power, still had slaves, couldn't make concrete) when the observations were made and the book written. You'll find that the Americans of 1830 were remarkably like the Americans of today, and will likely be like the Americans of 2030.

We really did create a new type of union, that many, if not most Americans fail to recognize as still very uncommon for most of the world, and unique at the time of its conception. We take our freedom and individuality for granted, like they were as ubiquitous as air, whereas our founders saw these blessings more like soil; something to be tended, worked and cared for, so that new sustenance for liberty would continue to grow.

red arrow · Post by **red arrow** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:16 pm

your immigration officers (INS) and department of homeland security. those guys are cool.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:30 pm

I guess the main point that chafes with me is just that using the terms interchangeably in my mind seems to imply that the common people can be considered the same as the government

The 'common' people ARE the government. That is the whole point--though my first impulse was to say that there are no 'common' people in the US. We are sovereign citizens. We decide what the shape of our government is, within the confines of our Constitution.

Why are there so many people in this country that get all petulant and whiny when their party-of-the-moment isn't in power? I've actually heard stupidity like 'Bush isn't MY president' or 'CVlinton wasn't MY president'. Of course they were and are. You don't get to opt out when things don't go your way--you work to get your guys in next time.

jadewombat · Post by **jadewombat** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:21 pm

All good points, well, most of them anyways.

Our form of government is one of the oldest in existence, arguably started to protect some whig wearing Virginian landowners, but since it's been going on this long...it ain't all bad.

I was born in Chicago, I live in the 'L' shaped state, I'm pretty sure I'm an American.

Could you all take this arguing to a different topic or something. You wan't to complain or split hairs, can you do it elsewhere?? Goddamn these gas prices, the country of Lichtenstein has 134 Trillion dollars of shady money(true), cars can run on water(also true), whatever. :?

So getting back on topic...I like radio flyer wagons and Cubs baseball games. :lol:

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:27 pm

an old timer once stated that he votes for different parties for prez and congress, in his opinion, it made for more grid-lock, and less action from government, and, his opinion was that the less they did, the less they screwed up........The only time government isn's screwing up is when they're on vacation.......
I laughed at the time,
I think I'm starting to agree, though.......

Ygmir
(if you don't like to read a thread, I've found the delete key a viable option.........or skipping it........)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:54 pm

Clemens suggested paying an incentive for less activity by congress.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:48 pm

Samuel was a brilliant man........

Timezone LaFontaine · Post by **Timezone LaFontaine** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:25 am

chiefdanfox wrote:I suggest you read Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America (1830's), if you have not already.

I'll check it out.

lurker wrote:The 'common' people ARE the government. That is the whole point--

No. Clearly the senators and representatives have access to a multiple facets of privilege that everyday people do not. But rather than me trying to convince you of this, why don't you dig up some examples of regular folks voting for their own pay raises annually?

By common folks I simply mean working class and middle class people. These people have decent access to working within local political structures, but are shut out of contending for higher offices by lack of money. Campaigns for city council positions in even mid-sized cities can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The types of political machines that are necessary to win those campaigns, and certainly the ones for ever higher offices, put the lie to the inspiring poetics of "by the people, for the people" -- or at least require the addition of significanty less poetic annotations. No, it's just not that simple... you don't get to angrily blame the masses of everyday working people for the power structure that is in place. Likewise, the everyday working people don't get to be let completely off the hook because they still do wield some influence and have some potential to organize. But there are limits to people's time and energy, and a wildly unbalanced distribution of wealth ... I'll leave it at that.

Why are there so many people in this country that get all petulant and whiny when their party-of-the-moment isn't in power? I've actually heard stupidity like 'Bush isn't MY president' or 'CVlinton wasn't MY president'. Of course they were and are. You don't get to opt out when things don't go your way--you work to get your guys in next time.

Yeah, those people bother me, too! Although that doesn't explain why you're trying to attribute those characteristics to me. Are you having a conversation with me as an individual or are you furiously typing against all the stupid people of the world who have caused frustrations to build up within you? Hey, at least you've got an outlet to vent. I can handle it. Just don't assume that all of my opinions fit into your handful of typecasts.

...and my On-Topic contribution of what I like about America: bluegrass music, lowbrow art forms, the National Parks (although not the people currently managing them), and yes, professional football.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:52 pm

yes, the NFL!
yes.

one of the things i look forward to 'after' burningman.

heikediguoren · Post by **heikediguoren** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:26 pm

[quote="Timezone LaFontaine"]

No. Clearly the senators and representatives have access to a multiple facets of privilege that everyday people do not. But rather than me trying to convince you of this, why don't you dig up some examples of regular folks voting for their own pay raises annually?

By common folks I simply mean working class and middle class people. These people have decent access to working within local political structures, but are shut out of contending for higher offices by lack of money. [/quote]

OK, here's how it works:

MAJOR PARTY/POLITICAL MACHINE: You can camp with an established theme camp populated by veteran Burners, and everything will be shipshape. You will probably have to pay a high camp fee, and do a bunch of chores, but you know that the kitchen is clean, someone knows how to handle overdoses, and you'll have hot and cold running screwdrivers.

OR

MINOR 3RD PARTY: You can camp with a bunch of bright-eyed hippie raver n00bs. People are always disappearing when there's rebar to be pounded, and you would do well to wash your own dishes, but exciting random things can happen that can't happen at a structured camp, like you are a techstep party one night and the next night you decide to be Pizza n' Porn because that's what you're into.

OR

NONPARTISAN: You can do it yourself, bring all your own gear, get a quiet patch over at 5:30 & I, and be Playobinson Crusoe. I did this last year and I was super autonomous but boy was it a lot of work.

All this concern about access to political authority is about the way that you choose to participate in civilization. If you want the benefits that a certain subculture enjoys, you either have to play by their rules, or be so on-the-ball that you can do it yourself without getting in trouble. That goes for holding office too. Climb the ladder or build your own.

Kenny Z · Post by **Kenny Z** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:39 am

I love the fact most Americans descended from other countries but are proud to be an American.

I love the fact that I can travel an visit many other countries.

I love the fact that we are relatively safe compared to a lot of other countries.

I love the fact that we are such a great country that some other countries feel the need to blow us up and bring us down to their level.

I love the fact that we can choose to go to church or not and decide what church to belong to if we desire.

I love the fact that even though as annoying as most of them are, habitual protesters can protest just about everyone and everything without repercussions.

I love that we have animal shelters.

I love that we are not and will never be perfect but we try.

I love that I could go on and on.