about the power plant

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:38 am

I am passing on this artcle about the sempera power plant

Comment from a Stop Burning Man member:
This morning on Reno's KTHX Radio "The X" Bruce Van Dyke was
complaining about this article in the Reno Gazette-Journal about the
power plant permit. He was remarking on how BAD it will be for the AIR
QUALITY on the Black Rock, and he also mentioned issues with WATER.
This is the same two faced radio jock who endorses how cool and okay he
thinks Burning Man is! It's so hypocritical and ironic how the air
quality and water issues are NEVER are a concern when these same folks
speak in favor of BM!

He went on to say how people need to bitch and snit to the authorities
about this power plant and how this power plant "had better have their
ducks in a row" to handle the public outcry.....but these are the same
people who think it's fine to do whatever the hell they want on the
Black Rock when it's in their own interest! Why is it that nobody seems
to care about the air quality and water issues over Labor Day Weekend?

It's another fine example of the typical, self-centered
thinking of people who cater to their own fun and games a.k.a. special
interests!
____________________________________
Here is the Article:

Washoe Planning Commission Approves Air-Monitoring Station Permit
Susan Voyles
Reno Gazette-Journal
Wednesday | Mar 3, 2004

The Washoe County Planning Commission on Tuesday approved a permit for
an air monitoring station near Gerlach to gather wind and air quality
data for a proposed coal-fired power plant that would be the biggest in
Nevada.

In the 6-1 vote, Commissioner Mark Sullivan said the board could
consider only the impact the monitoring station could have on Squaw
Creek Valley, about 10 miles northwest of Gerlach.

The station would be a 164-foot-tall tower with weather instruments and
a small trailer for monitoring equipment to collect air quality data
required for obtaining federal and state environmental permits. The
nearest home is two miles away over a hill.

Called the Granite Fox Power Project, Sempra Energy of San Diego
proposes to build a 1,450-megawatt power plant. It would burn enough
pulverized coal to provide electricity to at least 1.45 million
households.

Commissioner Stephen Rogers, a retired nuclear engineer who said he
worked at power plants for 40 years, was the sole opponent, siding with
Phyllis Fox, an engineer hired by Gerlach residents.

“I’ve worked too long in the power industry. I agree with what she
said,” Rogers said, adding pollution from the plant could cover several
western states.

Fox, of Berkeley, Calif., said the tower is far too short to capture
wind measures from the plume coming from the plant smokestacks, which
she estimated would rise 650 feet.

And she said the site of the monitoring station would collect
minimum-case data versus worst-case.

But Sullivan and other commissioners said those weren’t decisions for
the board to make.

Vince Scheetz, Sempra’s consulting meteorologist, said sonar
instruments will profile accurately wind flows up to altitudes of
several thousand feet.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the Nevada Division of
Environmental Protection would have to approve the monitoring plan.

Consultants for Sempra Energy said they’d return to the planning
commission for approval of changes if their monitoring plan is not
approved.

David Rumsey, a Gerlach rancher, said residents probably would decide
today to appeal the permit to the county board of commissioners. If so,
the board would probably hear the case in late March or April.

The power plant site is near a major electricity transmission line
serving Southern California and a railroad line. It would result in 100
permanent jobs and a windfall in property taxes to the county.

It would be built on 2,000 acres owned by the Bright-Holland Co.,
controlled by Reno developers Sam and Todd Jaksick.

Under that company name, they own 28,195 acres northeast of Gerlach,
including 18,600 acres in the Granite Range northeast of the power
plant nominated in January by Washoe County for federal acquisition.

In acknowledging outside contacts before the permit was considered, all
seven planning commissioners reported they received a phone call or
message from former Gov. Robert List, now a lawyer representing Sempra.

Sullivan said he spoke with List about some of the air monitoring
station details but said that conversation would not affect his
decision.

At the district attorney’s request, the commission added a statement to
the permit, saying it cannot be relied upon in gaining support for any
future development.

While commissioners said the power plant wasn’t on the agenda, they
urged residents who came to talk about that to speak during public
comment.

Rumsey, owner of the Parker Ranch, said a coal-fired power plant
doesn’t belong in a pristine canyon nearly surrounded by the Black Rock
Desert National Conservation Area and proposed conservation areas.

“Is this good planning,” he said.

“What was the point of the NCA other than to preserve this as an
attraction?” asked Rachel Bogard, of Planet X Pottery, which depends on
tourists. “I do not believe the financial gain of an already wealthy
power company or the support of the gross over-consumption of Southern
California is worth destroying our wilderness and community.”

Charles Watson, Jr., of Nevada Public Lands Task Force, said the
facility would be one of 96 power plants needed for supplying
electricity to Yucca Mountain nuclear dump. The Sierra Club also
registered its opposition to the power plant.

“Why are they going to build this power plant here,” Watson asked.
“It’s because they’re forbidden in California.”

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:04 am

Somehow I'm not surprised that thing that you found most upsetting about the proposal of a coal burning energy plant in the Black Rock Desert is the fact that no one else is paying any attention to shutting down Burning Man.

It's another fine example of the typical, self-centered
thinking of people who cater to their own fun and games a.k.a. special
interests!

Special Interests?? Hahahahaaaaahaa!!!!! Oh the irony!

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:44 am

Oh, can we just stop this right here? We can all point out to this guy the pollution difference between the event and a power plant, but we know he won't care. He's just shit-stirring. I think the plant is an imortant topic, and organization needs to occur to oppose it. It doesn't need to involve this fool at all.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:34 am

Really. Give it a fucking break Rex/Allanon2.

NO ONE here gives a shit.

Really.

Seriously.

I'm being truthful here.

We DON'T fucking care what you have to say. It doesn't contribute to the event.

I mean, we're being selfish here. Your point of view remains about as valuable as the shit sprayed in a neglected port-o-john.

Is that enough of a clue?

Need more?

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:15 pm

I thought the Allanon collective was relegated to a single thread to post the flaming WE MUST STOP THE BORG crap.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:28 pm

a2, please get me particulate emission information per annum comparisons for proposed power plant and said arts festival.

thanks in advance

smooch

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:01 pm

they are not

i am just forwarding you info from other people.
and part of that is a article.

I am just letting the BMORG communtiy know about the sempra powerplant and its stauts

ohjh well
predictable
but hey at least i try to inform eevryone

Chai Guy wrote:Somehow I'm not surprised that thing that you found most upsetting about the proposal of a coal burning energy plant in the Black Rock Desert is the fact that no one else is paying any attention to shutting down Burning Man.

It's another fine example of the typical, self-centered
thinking of people who cater to their own fun and games a.k.a. special
interests!

Special Interests?? Hahahahaaaaahaa!!!!! Oh the irony!

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:08 pm

This morning on Reno's KTHX Radio "The X" Bruce Van Dyke was
complaining about this article in the Reno Gazette-Journal about the
power plant permit. He was remarking on how BAD it will be for the AIR

you are saying that i am the above person? wow i wish i coudl say thanks but thats not me. i was just lettign you know what happened on a radio broadcast and it even involved talkign about BMORG. and the Bm event.
i just thought you might liek to know.
ohh well i thought you woudl care.
ttyl
rex

Chai Guy wrote:Somehow I'm not surprised that thing that you found most upsetting about the proposal of a coal burning energy plant in the Black Rock Desert is the fact that no one else is paying any attention to shutting down Burning Man.

It's another fine example of the typical, self-centered
thinking of people who cater to their own fun and games a.k.a. special
interests!

Special Interests?? Hahahahaaaaahaa!!!!! Oh the irony!

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:43 pm

A2: Would you please take a few minutes and preview your posts for typos? I want to read your posts even if I don't agree with them. Bad grammar I can overlook as I'm guilty of that. But the spelling errors make your posts miserable to read. Please, please, please, if your going to post, take the time to do it right!

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:02 pm

Allanon2/3/4/156 whomever you are today,

You wouldn't get everyone's back up if you didn't use a

just thought you might liek to know.

type posting to poke and prod at the eplaya community.

.....but these are the same
people who think it's fine to do whatever the hell they want on the
Black Rock when it's in their own interest! Why is it that nobody seems
to care about the air quality and water issues over Labor Day Weekend?

You write this before your so called informative post. People stop wanting to hear what you have to say when you insult them before giving them information that they may otherwise be interested in.

And I find it difficult to imagine how you can equate an annual one week event that insists it's participants bring their own water supply with the infinitely consuming, smoke belching, fossil fueled power facility? What is the basis for your theory? What credentials do you possess to form same?

Besides - there is already a discussion thread dealing with the power plant issue. You should know. You started that one yourself. The thread will pop back to the top if you post in it. You don't need to start a new one....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:01 pm

A posting time of 11:08 falls in the middle of the school day.

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:36 pm

Actually Juanicoheal, I started the other power plant thread. I made the horrible mistake of putting al's name in the title, though. My bad.

And al, defending yourself by saying:

"i was just lettign you know what happened on a radio broadcast and it even involved talkign about BMORG. and the Bm event. i just thought you might liek to know. ohh well i thought you woudl care. "

when we can scroll up and see:

allanon2 wrote:... He was remarking on how BAD it will be for the AIR
QUALITY on the Black Rock, and he also mentioned issues with WATER.
This is the same two faced radio jock who endorses how cool and okay he
thinks Burning Man is! It's so hypocritical and ironic how the air
quality and water issues are NEVER are a concern when these same folks
speak in favor of BM!

is the sort of thing that makes everyone here hate you.

Stuart and Co., really, don't argue facts with Al. It doesn't work. He's shown repeatedly that all he cares about is his anti-Bm agenda. That's it. Might as well argue with a sewage pipe.

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:02 pm

Actually KellY, I was referring to:
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=3015
started by Allanon2

rather than your Something for Allanon to REALLY get upset about thread

OH the threads we weave.....

rodent · Post by **rodent** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:12 pm

ya know, I believe that the community here (on eplaya) wouldn't be as condecending to the sbm folks IF the sbm folks weren't so condecending in their posts.

just noticing patterns.

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:58 am

Ya,ll be going out to BM one of these days and Ya'll get a layer of coal soot over the silt.. If'n ya'll do like natural environments, and I realize ya'll got no concept of what lies beyond the playa, ya'll need to organize to stop this power plant. For your info.. It will have 645 foot smoke stacks.. That is about as tall as the Trans America Building in San Francisco. It is only a few miles from the BM site. It will be three times the size of the Valmy powerplant in Central Nevada currently the largest in Nevada. The Valmy plant puts 4 million cubic feet of particulates into the atmosphere each year... Don't beat up the messenger, THINK.... and Act... Ya'll like The Black Rock,, mebbe,,, so help it.. Even if ya'll be a bunch of urban sheep, sheep are a Nevada Tradition.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:39 am

Organizing is a no brainer. But the last thing I want to see is the rabid environmentalism on display that I see with A2 at the moment. Sempra has deep pockets, a former governor on their lobbying team, and will be a formidable company to fight. With that in mind it's going to take a strong coalition to mobilize, to engage the public and to eventually block this and other proposals from becoming reality. The team that forms has to be balanced enough to not alienate the public with the protest message, otherwise the chances of success drops fast.

So once again, A2, would you please step back and look at the big picture? BM last 2 months with one week of intense use. The Sempra plant's impact is all year, and covers several Western states. We need your voice helping to fight the bigger problem. And let me float this idea...with the increased spotlight on the BRD due to this fight, any negative land use will have a higher chance of being noticed. There's a chance to get your concerns addressed along with the power plant for others. Think about it...and help us fight this.

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:25 am

One thing everybody can do RIGHT NOW is contact their Senators and encourage them in the strongest possible terms to oppose Bush's energy bill. One of the gems of this bill is the building of more coal-burning plants all over the country, with fewer environmental restrictions. It's already passed the House, and a Democratic filibuster is probably the only way to keep it from going forward.

Remember, emails aren't as effective as faxes and snail-mail. There's a site that let's you send free faxes to your senator here:

http://www.savebiogems.org/takeaction.asp?src=RR0401

BTW, I really don't regard Al as an environmentalist at all, but I'll be happy if he proves me wrong.

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:49 am

I'd love to pile my $0.02 into your efforts, but as with the new Washington State power plant being built in an area that is barely Washington (the majority of the valley is in BC, with a shared CA/USA water table.....) Canadian comments aren't even worth the exchange rate.

We have our own fish to fry up here (farmed salmon mainly).

Luck to all! Even the 'A's if their/his intentions are true! Coal power is no way to go.

What do the energy Czars have against serious investigation into Geothermal?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:29 pm

There are tremendous Geothermal resources, BLM won't let new power lines be built through the NCA, So many of the resources cannot be used. Remember, much of the coal comes from Wyoming, so does Cheney.

juanicoheal · Post by **juanicoheal** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:24 pm

WYOMING!!!!

So that means not only are they burning the crap - they're also shipping it there. Railcar or truck - more fossil fuel.

And what's this about disallowing power lines. Power lines are less harmfull than the particulates.... If they're building this coal burning plant, why not find an alternate resource plant in the same location????

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:07 pm

The coal plant is to be located along existing Power llines, near an existing rail line, away from voters...

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:06 pm

Away from the people getting the power, too. If this thing was built in the LA or Vegas city limits, maybe they'd think that they were better off being energy efficiant...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:08 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:Ya,ll be going out to BM one of these days and Ya'll get a layer of coal soot over the silt.. If'n ya'll do like natural environments, and I realize ya'll got no concept of what lies beyond the playa, ya'll need to organize to stop this power plant. For your info.. It will have 645 foot smoke stacks.. That is about as tall as the Trans America Building in San Francisco. It is only a few miles from the BM site. It will be three times the size of the Valmy powerplant in Central Nevada currently the largest in Nevada. The Valmy plant puts 4 million cubic feet of particulates into the atmosphere each year... Don't beat up the messenger, THINK.... and Act... Ya'll like The Black Rock,, mebbe,,, so help it.. Even if ya'll be a bunch of urban sheep, sheep are a Nevada Tradition.

black rock ric...why the hostility and name-calling in the last sentence? i don't get it.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:06 pm

genghis wrote:
Black Rock Ric wrote:Ya,ll be going out to BM one of these days and Ya'll get a layer of coal soot over the silt.. If'n ya'll do like natural environments, and I realize ya'll got no concept of what lies beyond the playa, ya'll need to organize to stop this power plant. For your info.. It will have 645 foot smoke stacks.. That is about as tall as the Trans America Building in San Francisco. It is only a few miles from the BM site. It will be three times the size of the Valmy powerplant in Central Nevada currently the largest in Nevada. The Valmy plant puts 4 million cubic feet of particulates into the atmosphere each year... Don't beat up the messenger, THINK.... and Act... Ya'll like The Black Rock,, mebbe,,, so help it.. Even if ya'll be a bunch of urban sheep, sheep are a Nevada Tradition.
black rock ric...why the hostility and name-calling in the last sentence? i don't get it.

Two words:
sock puppet

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:23 pm

Since someone else mentioned it, you meant one of these things?

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:39 pm

Tancorix wrote:Since someone else mentioned it, you meant one of these things?

For some reason, that reminded me of my high school sex life.

Please don't ask...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:06 pm

domestic sheep band together in large bands... Wild sheep in small bands. I hunt wild sheep proud beautiful animals. I have no use for domestic sheep they aren't proud and beautiful. I find that many humans like to band together in large.... bands... It is a mystery to me. It isn't hostility, just sadness. Ya'll come out to a grand landscape, but you drag 30,000 others and much of the 21st century with you,,, brings tears to my eyes. I know ya'll talk about community and tribes and such. But consider the Navajo and the Hopi... As much as I admire the Hopi I could never live like them, Give me a hogan twenty miles from my neighbors, like the Navajo..

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:12 pm

RIc, I have a ? for you. After your last post. What the fuck are you hanging with this band fer?

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:34 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:domestic sheep band together in large bands... Wild sheep in small bands. I hunt wild sheep proud beautiful animals.

This also reminds me of my high school sex life.

No really don't ask...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:48 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:domestic sheep band together in large bands... Wild sheep in small bands. I hunt wild sheep proud beautiful animals. I have no use for domestic sheep they aren't proud and beautiful. I find that many humans like to band together in large.... bands... It is a mystery to me. It isn't hostility, just sadness. Ya'll come out to a grand landscape, but you drag 30,000 others and much of the 21st century with you,,, brings tears to my eyes. I know ya'll talk about community and tribes and such. But consider the Navajo and the Hopi... As much as I admire the Hopi I could never live like them, Give me a hogan twenty miles from my neighbors, like the Navajo..

so. i'm being way civil on this one, since the power plant *is* a critically important issue. but a c'mon, ric (or should i call you treecutter?). for someone who is such a "rugged individualist" as yourself, do you *really* think that all the folks who participate in burningman are exactly the same, all from the same place, all from the same background, and all mindless drones? how many folks who are part of this community have you interacted with on an individual, 1-on-1 live (i.e. not internet) basis, for any length of time? have you attended the event? and if so, for more than just the last weekend, for more that just "the burn" on saturday? the early part of the week is a completely different world than the weekend. don't judge the whole event by that, if that's all you've seen, please.

it's funny. the things that are espoused at the core of the sbm group (and if you're really concerned about preserving the black rock desert, a name more in tune with that goal could potentially better serve those ends, btw) are supposedly around saving the black rock desert's natural state. but any comments that start down that path seem to invariably devolve into NIMBY-ism, name calling, and --quite frankly-- prejudice against the participants in the burningman event.

from the dozens (more likely "hundreds," actually) of people who i have interacted with at *depth*over the last seven or so years in the desert, very few fall into the "sheep" category, and even fewer seem to match the stereotypes that you've put forth in this and other posts. most are *extremely* active, and *extremely* committed to "getting shit done." and that's at a personal, individual level.

talk is cheap. bitching and moaning is even cheaper. and the folks that i've been fortunate enough to interact with are *not* whiners, bitchers, moaners, or sheep.

so. let's stop the name calling and stereotyping, on both sides. and if the power plant issue is important to both groups, then let's come up with a plan and *do things* to actively raise hell and see if we can scuttle this thing.

and...and this is just a hypothesis...through this process, you may find that the *individuals* in this group are not necessarily in the mold that one might presume.

about the power plant

about the power plant

Trollin' A-WAY.....

wow everyone is assumign these are my words :)

ddi you know the article was from a reno radio person?

Re: about the power plant

Best Unite

Geothermal is out there

Powerlines

Re: Best Unite

Re: Best Unite

Rob, Sheep, Hostility?

Re: Rob, Sheep, Hostility?

Re: Rob, Sheep, Hostility?