Jungo Egress 2008?

ScoutDG · Post by **ScoutDG** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:23 pm

Anybody know what's the deal this year w/ leaving via Jungo Road / Road 49? As you can see from looking at satellite photos (e.g. Google Earth, or Google Maps, or ...) there's this nice dirt road on the SE side of the Playa, called Jungo Road or (49). There are also railroad tracks. You can see from the photos where people cross the rairoad tracks -- car tracks converge and there's a bit of white from the sand/dust that gets deposited by the cars.

I know the BLM stipulations (http://www.burningman.com/media/doc/pre ... ations.pdf) say:
39. Participants shall use the designated entrance lane to access and exit the event. BRC shall provide adequate staff to ensure that participants comply with this requirement during event exodus as needed.

But, I know I've seen people leaving by heading east across the playa, with nobody chasing them. I've also seen people who arrive from that direction (then drive around the orange fence until they get to the regular entrance gates).

The BLM Stipulations also say:
42. b. BRC will coordinate efforts with Nevada Highway Patrol, Nevada Department of Transportation and private business owners in Gerlach and Empire to minimize traffic congestion and vehicle back-up on State Route 447 and County Road 34. Their plan to address traffic congestion in these areas must be approved by NHP, NDOT, and BLM at least 30 days prior to the event.

Or course, nothing would minimize the backups on County Road 34 like letting us avoid it entirely.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:30 pm

It's supposed to be a very rough unmaintained road. Some people talk as if you're going to be one of those "you'll beeeee sooooorry" skulls from the cartoons if you travel it for 30 yards. Others seem to think if you drive real slowly and have a couple extra tires and good shadetree skills you might just live to have grandchildren.

And those people you saw racing across the playa towards it, may have had some sort of clearance.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 pm

I've rockhounded that entire region for years.
Yes, that road can be a "rough one"...........I don't know that I'd take 2 wd or an RV of any size, including trailers, unless you have time to go really slow.........
Those roads change every year, depending on the winter.

That said,
It is beautiful out there, lots of neat rocks to find, petroglyphs, artifacts, hot springs and nice creeks and small "oasis" here and there.

Just don't be in a hurry, and, tell someone what you're doing and where you're going, and, when you should arrive..........

good luck

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:08 am

..took my 79' vw van in 2002. regular road tires. not a problem.

i am, however, one of the luckier people i know....or is it skill?

it was an excellent drive both ways and winnemucca is quite an oasis on the way home complete with rotisserie chicken and iced tea under cool misters in the evening sun.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:34 am

yeah, that's the thing.....
depending on the winter, and the county and state road budget, it can be quite nice, or, a bummer.....

I'd just say "prepare for the worst, hope for the best"...........

Winnemucca is a cool place. Great Basque restaurants, reasonable hotel rates.

I go to a little town called "Midas", about 60 miles north of there. Really small, about 30 year round residents.

There's a hot spring we dug out many years ago and lined with flat rock. up to that point, it was just a warm, wet mud hole in the middle of nowhere........

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:10 am

The up and over the railroad tracks is very steep, a regular car scrapes on it. Anything with a low air dam in front is going to have problems.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:37 am

having done it once before, in 98' i HIGHLY suggest you NOT attempt jungo rd. unless you are in a dune buggy or a motorcycle....it is TREACHEROUS and
not worth whatever time you may think you'll save.

the locals in winnemucca will charge you an arm and a leg to pull you out, if they can get you out of whatever you get stuck in, and it can vary from deep sand to cement like muck.

dont screw up your burn....i remember distinctly thinking to myself as we barely made it around a corner that we could see the playa, but we might never actually make it....

so, you've been warned.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:58 am

You know it's dusty this year. Jungo is on the downwind/dune side.

Take two 4WD vehicles and a big chain in case one gets stuck.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:53 am

But, I know I've seen people leaving by heading east across the playa, with nobody chasing them. I've also seen people who arrive from that direction (then drive around the orange fence until they get to the regular entrance gates).

Jungo is not quite a dirt road. More like a dirt road with very sharp, pointed rocks and unless you have several spares I wouldn't recommend it - especially if you're towing anything. The road can be a real hazard and several people I've known or met personally have died on it over the last few years.

Also, don't EVEN consider leaving the event by any route other than the primary entry/exit.

You WILL be caught and you WILL be fined substantially and you will possibly be required to get t the back of the line.

Of course you're gonna do what you decided to do BUT consider this a fair and honest warning.

ike · Post by **ike** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:04 pm

I can't find a link now, but I recall a story in one of the BRC newspapers last year telling of how a man tried to get over the railroad tracks in his car, and got his car stuck *on* the tracks. Then a freight train came along, smashed the car, and scattered all the guy's supplies over a a square mile of desert or so. The guy was fine, but I imagine that losing his car and his supplies put a serious damper on his burn.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:36 pm

That's happened a couple times.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:42 pm

Jungo Road direct access post event has been a pet project of mine for years. To be blunt, don't even think about leaving BRC except via the approved route as your odds of making it across without getting a substantial ticket are very low. Please resist the urge to bolt across there as your quick exit may screw over thousands of other people in the years to come.

As for Jungo Road itself, I've run it almost every year except this year as I'm skipping BM to be at the DNC in Denver. That being said I have two questions to ask you:

1: How radically self reliant are you?
2: How prepared are you to experience vehicle damage, most likely strong to severe damage?

Jungo Road is deceiving. It gets some use from Winnemucca to the gold mine at Sulphur but from Sulphur to the hot springs...it's a whole other experience. Each year I come back with damage, you can creep along there at 15 mph and that road will still be a hellish experience to negotiate. I've drove it in cars, 4x4 trucks and SUV's, with and without trailers, and I hope you'll take heed of what I'm saying when I warn you that road will give you trouble. It's got some serious bad juju about it. After learning the hard way on my first year attending BM I always carry a mini air compressor, 2 cans of SUV sized Fix-a-flat, a tire repair kit, and 2 years ago when I reached Winnemucca after the event I had used all of the above. I have mangled a trailer axle so bad that the guy at the trailer shop said it was the most damaged axle he had ever replaced in 40+ years of working on trailers. I've had rocks slice through 10 ply tires. I've encountered sections so rough that driving over it at 10 mph I still cracked the windshield...two years in a row. (On a Ranger 4x4 and a full size extended cab Silverado 4x4)

But that being said I've had some trips without anything more eventful happen than having broken side lights on the trailer. The view across there is beautiful. But if you break down, most cell phones are worthless and it's a LONG walk to civilization for help. And if you attempt it at night it gets even more challenging. Again I'm asking you about question 1...you gotta be ready to save your own ass as it's highly unlikely anyone will come along to help you, or even if they do, people won't stop, they'll just leave you standing there to suck in their dust.

So one last time...Jungo Road will kick your ass. It's not a question of if, but when, and how many different ways. Consider yourself warned.

ScoutDG · Post by **ScoutDG** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:58 am

Uh, OK Kinetic V. I understand you've made a vigorous warning, although it's a bit confusing. If Jungo Road is such a killer, what's the point of trying to get direct access for egress?

How's your pet project going? Is anyone even talking about it?

What's the meaning of "... your quick exit may screw over thousands of other people in the years to come "? Are you suggesting that people trying to leave via that route will cause BLM to terminate the license and that would be then end of Burning Man forever?

Also, I wasn't thinking of heading toward Sulphur at exodus-- I was thinking of heading the opposite direction, just past the Playa where Jungo Road merges with the road out of Gerlach. I am idly curious about whether that stretch is such a killer. Not that it apparently matters, if I can't get there from BRC.

Kinetic V wrote:Jungo Road direct access post event has been a pet project of mine for years. To be blunt, don't even think about leaving BRC except via the approved route as your odds of making it across without getting a substantial ticket are very low. Please resist the urge to bolt across there as your quick exit may screw over thousands of other people in the years to come.

As for Jungo Road itself ...
Jungo Road is deceiving. It gets some use from Winnemucca to the gold mine at Sulphur but from Sulphur to the hot springs...it's a whole other experience. Each year I come back with damage, you can creep along there at 15 mph and that road will still be a hellish experience to negotiate. I've drove it in cars, 4x4 trucks and SUV's, with and without trailers, and I hope you'll take heed of what I'm saying when I warn you that road will give you trouble. It's got some serious bad juju about it. After learning the hard way on my first year attending BM I always carry a mini air compressor, 2 cans of SUV sized Fix-a-flat, a tire repair kit, and 2 years ago when I reached Winnemucca after the event I had used all of the above. I have mangled a trailer axle so bad that the guy at the trailer shop said it was the most damaged axle he had ever replaced in 40+ years of working on trailers. I've had rocks slice through 10 ply tires. I've encountered sections so rough that driving over it at 10 mph I still cracked the windshield...two years in a row. (On a Ranger 4x4 and a full size extended cab Silverado 4x4)

But that being said I've had some trips without anything more eventful happen than having broken side lights on the trailer. The view across there is beautiful. But if you break down, most cell phones are worthless and it's a LONG walk to civilization for help. And if you attempt it at night it gets even more challenging. Again I'm asking you about question 1...you gotta be ready to save your own ass as it's highly unlikely anyone will come along to help you, or even if they do, people won't stop, they'll just leave you standing there to suck in their dust.

So one last time...Jungo Road will kick your ass. It's not a question of if, but when, and how many different ways. Consider yourself warned.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:52 am

correct me if i'm wrong but, i think everyone is supposed to exit the same way. if i am not wrong on this than it's basically "end of story" and answers many of your questions.

when i came in by jungo in 2002(without a problem) it was my first time seeing our city. i wanted so badly to not drive right by it and pass it by 10 miles and use the real entrance....

holy shit!

i've gotta get to work on my shade structure!
i leave in 4 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:27 am

thirt33n wrote:correct me if i'm wrong but, i think everyone is supposed to exit the same way. if i am not wrong on this than it's basically "end of story" and answers many of your questions.

when i came in by jungo in 2002(without a problem) it was my first time seeing our city. i wanted so badly to not drive right by it and pass it by 10 miles and use the real entrance....
AAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

Every year we use Jungo road and it gets better every year. Last year -2007 I was able to drive at 75MPG safely in the straights in a ford F550. The ford explorere behind me had no problem. The ONLY place you will have clearance problems is at the Microwave crossing to get on playa. Trailers and low cars will not clear the egress. (too steep departure angle to cross tracks.)

Any trailers should continue to Gerlach, turn right and your there.
I have traveled it 4 times this year and its in great shape. The only reason that it is downplayed is that the mining companies have to maintain it, and they bitch to the BLM about having to pay for the maintenance for others to use. If I was coming from anywhere that took me through Winnemucca I would take it. it saves you 90 minutes getting to BM over the southerly fernley, or lovelock entrances.

Ill be on it again this friday with a kenworth tractor, F550, International crew cab. Only the Kenworth is going to Gerlach first.
later

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:56 am

Are you people the same ones who gave the Stolpa family directions back in 1992?

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:05 am

yeah gyre, i had no problems in 2002 in a vw van...

but i'm referring to using the microwave road as an alternative to exodus. ...not supposed to right? i mean, you could get a ticket for trying?

sounds like you've got some serious cargo. have a safe trip. hope to meet you out there. where you gonna be at?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:13 pm

there sure is some great rock hunting along that road, though, all the way to Lovelock or Winnemmucca...........

Stolpa reference, Bob:

I think Darwin was spinning in his grave................

StevenGoodman · Post by **StevenGoodman** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:27 pm

thirt33n wrote:yeah gyre, i had no problems in 2002 in a vw van...

but i'm referring to using the microwave road as an alternative to exodus. ...not supposed to right? i mean, you could get a ticket for trying?

sounds like you've got some serious cargo. have a safe trip. hope to meet you out there. where you gonna be at?

This is purely my opinion, based on reading all the various closures, requirements, etc.

Everyone has to leave the Burning Man Closure Area via the main entrance to Hwy 34. But once on Hwy 34 you are out of the Closure Area, you can go north instead of south if you want.

The "BLM Roads" on the playa are open to the public during the event, they detour around the Closure Area. i.e. the public can drive to the 12 mile entrance and go north. The "East and West Playa Roads" are open to the public.

So,it seems you could leave via Exodus, turn north to 12 mile, head up the "West Playa Road" until you are past the Closure Area, and then head over to the Microwave RR Crossing.

Or drive down to Gerlach, and then catch Trego.

Details:
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_ ... osure.html

Martini Steve

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:57 pm

ScoutDG wrote:Uh, OK Kinetic V. I understand you've made a vigorous warning, although it's a bit confusing. If Jungo Road is such a killer, what's the point of trying to get direct access for egress?

How's your pet project going? Is anyone even talking about it?

What's the meaning of "... your quick exit may screw over thousands of other people in the years to come "? Are you suggesting that people trying to leave via that route will cause BLM to terminate the license and that would be then end of Burning Man forever?

Also, I wasn't thinking of heading toward Sulphur at exodus-- I was thinking of heading the opposite direction, just past the Playa where Jungo Road merges with the road out of Gerlach. I am idly curious about whether that stretch is such a killer. Not that it apparently matters, if I can't get there from BRC.

Bear with me, I'm on enough cold medicine to keep the 5th Army going...
Jungo Road can trim well over 100 miles off your trip if you're heading East past Winnemucca to Salt Lake City and beyond. And it's frustrating when you see the road over there relatively empty yet you gotta go all the way down through Gerlach and almost to Empire to get to it...when going across the playa would let you bypass a lot of the Exodus clusterfuck. That's the lure of Jungo....

As for the project I've exchanged ideas with the BLM and NDOT but while I've had some high profile success with transportation issues further East, I suck when it comes to issues in Nevada. I still keep trying though...I've learned things and made contacts that have helped me back here and it's those small successes that keep me having exchanges and sending letters back and forth....

As for my screwing people over comment...once 447 reaches capacity Jungo will most likely be pressed into service as a reliever route....pissing off the BLM and all the parties that will need to cooperate to make this happen will cause the bureaucrats to drag their heels....in short you have to play nice in order to have any chance of getting access to that road.

Also in regards to the safety question you asked...the section from Trego to Empire warrants the same cautions as the rest of the road...in fact I think it's more dangerous coming in as you see BRC over there, you want to hurry up and get there, you're tired from driving so far and that's when shit happens.

Also while I'm trying to crank out something that's partially readable, exodus traffic if it ever was opened to Jungo should be made to be Eastbound only...with no access to 447 at Empire. Letting people slip out the back just turns the exodus into a giant Y with the chokepoint being 1 mile North of the Empire Store....and NDOT doesn't like that idea at all.

I hope this all makes some sense...if it doesn't once I get to feeling better I'll try and clarify it more.

Not Sure · Post by **Not Sure** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:13 pm

75 MPH ?are you a friggen moron?Please fill out your organ donor card.I drive on jungo road all the time and i dont do over 40 MPH and the speed limit is 45,and also the only mine out there is the hi-croft and they can care less because the countys are the ones who pay for upkeep and thats only once a year in spring.anyone driving on it please take your time there are a lot of single car wrecks and fatalities from people going to fast and the washoe and pershing sherrifs patrol it during BM.I know this because i got a sobriety test out there 3 years ago.the sherriff told me they deal with more accidents from speeding than from alcohol

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:40 pm

Not Sure wrote:75 MPH ?are you a friggen moron?Please fill out your organ donor card.

Nope - Im the guy driving the ambulance or engine across the desert trying to get an someone that rolled his rig to a medical center, or to be on scene for some other incident.

Like I said - 75MPH is easily doable in the flats, not on the corners or where visibility is limited. We do drive with regard to those around us. When I have 5 miles of visibilty on a road that drops off the horizon, and no side turns, or traffic coming we will step it up.

betrdanevr · Post by **betrdanevr** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:20 pm

Well, then, I'd hope too that you could preface your remarks with "Don't try this one at home, kids!"

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:32 pm

The speed limit on parts of the road from Sulphur to Winnemucca is posted at 55. As for the 75 mph thing...tack on 43 sustained and then come talk about it. And yes, Sheriff's deputies are out there. I've had Ka band radar hits out there.

Disclaimer: just because you can doesn't mean you should. And most of my troubles on that road have occurred at speeds of 20 mph or less.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:11 pm

Well, then, I'd hope too that you could preface your remarks with "Don't try this one at home, kids!"

My friend Mr. Darwin argues to the contrary.

Hey kids! Please, please try this on your vacation.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:17 am

A hot spring and a gold mine?

Post by **mdmf007** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:29 pm

Ill tape the road onto video on friday for replay so you can see for yourselves. Ill upload to youtube in real time, and sped up.

Ill even show and drive the microwave entrance (its only a half mile from Jungo to opoen playa) so you can see if your particular rig will make it onto playa.

betrdanevr · Post by **betrdanevr** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:05 pm

Very nice of you! That's great!

macrophage68 · Post by **macrophage68** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:35 pm

I've always been mystified by the reputation of the Suphur Jungo Road. It seems like any number of nation forest dirt roads I've driven over the years. I took it upon leaving in 02 and 04, and arriving in 06 and 07. There are sharp rocks, and I drive slow enough to be able to avoid them in our truck that sways like a pig.
The flats I saw were both in vehicles driving fast.
If you drive slow enough that you don't save any time compared to the I-80 wilds of Lovelock you should be fine.
But if you see it as a time saver, then you're taking your chances.