OK, so i've spent much of the last month reading various threads, getting an idea if the concepts we have for a camp (and more specifically our structure) will work. We will be placing an order for the lumber tomorrow so rather than going into this blindly, I wanted to see if I could pick the knowledge of best people to ask on the subject.
There's only so many construction types you can speak to on this sort on thing, ultimately, my hesitations, are all based around BRD, or more specifically our friend the wind.
So our camp is 10+ strong, we have one couple in an RV, one 16' truck and a few cars that can all be used for wind blocks (in at least one direction, anyhoo). We stumbled accross the designs for the Disorient Delta Shade some weeks back and have decided to adapt it for our uses. We want to create enclosed units within each of our two sleeping shades, and a combined 3 set delta shade sturcture with a central atrium for our communal space.
First, the detla shade, which i'm sure some of you have seen...
http://wiki.disorient.info/images/thumb ... njLane.jpg
Secondly an early model of our camp that my girlfriend threw together, this is more to illistrate our concept rather than to show spacial planning. Basically we plan on wrapping the entire unit in shade cloth with openings at one side, adding cross beams to support the extra cloth, and internal dividers. (we have a shit ton of shade cloth from our structure last year).
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b220/ ... /bm5-1.jpg
So, these are my problems...
1) The Delta shade works in tension, and I am confused as to how we can add extra fabric without removing some of the structual properties of the original design. Two solutions we have are to either have the additional fabric be extremely loose so it can release in the event of high winds, the second is to create a second internal sturcture to hold the 'pods', but then, if we're going to do that, there's no much point in building these structures and saving on lumber etc
2) Getting the fabric to stay near/on the floor... i've read in various places that attaching shade cloth directly to the playa is a pointless activity, but again, unless we start adding extra lumber...? We considered keeping the bottom section open and raising the internal pods up with shipping pallets, but playa dust will still inviade in levels that will render the addition of the shade cloth fairly pointless.
3) I think I can probably work this one out my self but think I may as well throw it out there to see what other peoples thoughts are on the matter... orientation, what is our safest bet? I know a number of people have said that if you have to point your structure away from the wind then it's not going to work out 100% of the time on the playa, but there must be a prefered direction?
4) If this seems like a questionable idea can you offer any alternatives to a camp of around 12 people, looking for shade, personal spaces, ease of erection on the playa, low amounts of raw materials, and a design that offers a nice, fairly open communal space?
5) any other critiques, worries?
Sorry about the massive wall of text, and sorry about all the questions. I'm a little paniced and with our lumber purchase tomorrow, and pre-consturction weekend coming up I want to be sure that when we get out to BRC, everything is taken care of.
Thank you thank you thank you, in advance.
Our camp designs, last minute panic stations!
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sputnik
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My only comment is that this seems pretty complicated. If at all possible you should attempt to set this up in advance at home to see if it will work. Otherwise it's a crap shoot unless you've got a real good visual sense of how it all ties together (and my read is that you don't).
Keep it simple is my advice. Tarp from the side of the RV to a couple of poles that are staked out with guy lines. Last year I drilled some holes in the bottom of my 2x3s, pounded some rebar into the playa and then slipped the pole over the rebar. This ensured that the base of the pole didn't slip around.
Keep it simple is my advice. Tarp from the side of the RV to a couple of poles that are staked out with guy lines. Last year I drilled some holes in the bottom of my 2x3s, pounded some rebar into the playa and then slipped the pole over the rebar. This ensured that the base of the pole didn't slip around.
It's going to be alright.
We plan on throwing one up in a windy park near my house this weekend (duboce park for all you san franciscans). And the supposed beauty of all this is that it can be largely pre-fabricated ahead of time and thrown up reletively easy once we're in the desert... in theory.
Yes, I like that, we have two pretty large vehicles now, using them as supports for sleeping and communal spaces would be a pretty straight forward way to go in the event of prior plan devolution, thanks sir.
Also, it's worth noting that although I seem confused by the above design we have three members in our camp with architecture and constrution backgrounds... I just happen to be the one that see it concepts rather than in construction, I guess what i'm trying to say is that we're not going into this totally blindly.
Yes, I like that, we have two pretty large vehicles now, using them as supports for sleeping and communal spaces would be a pretty straight forward way to go in the event of prior plan devolution, thanks sir.
Also, it's worth noting that although I seem confused by the above design we have three members in our camp with architecture and constrution backgrounds... I just happen to be the one that see it concepts rather than in construction, I guess what i'm trying to say is that we're not going into this totally blindly.
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ilmarinen
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I have to rib on architects a bit as I work with them so much. I'm the site design guy in a mixed-disciplined office. Most of the engineers work on the long-skinny projects (roads) while I work on the big square ones. I support architectural projects, designing the site work around them--big sites with roads, utilities, etc. We do mostly municipal architecture--that is, big semi-industrial like building for utilities/agencies, etc.
Some of them are great. I have a lot more respect for the range of their technical knowledge since working closely with them last few years.
That structure is pretty cool--I've seen it on some other sites? Right? Other pictures at least. Is that the original and only so far or are you inspired by another design? Got any construction pages on it? How well does it pack? I assume all the triangles break-down.
-B.
Some of them are great. I have a lot more respect for the range of their technical knowledge since working closely with them last few years.
That structure is pretty cool--I've seen it on some other sites? Right? Other pictures at least. Is that the original and only so far or are you inspired by another design? Got any construction pages on it? How well does it pack? I assume all the triangles break-down.
-B.
Firmwood wrote:HA, well mr engineer, us architects managed this...
And we're quite happy with the damn thin.
Actually having said that, i'd rather not be associated with architects, too much ego and self-hatred for my liking. I just want to be free, maaan.
So yea, above problems, solved.
A civil engineer in an uncivilized land.
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Bob
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I've been a Scout, carpenter *and* engineer, maybe you've got something there.
Seems to me that design works best repeated linearly, creating a long gallery, rather than crowded into a triangle. I'd do this with the personal shade as well as the common shade, so if you try to add sidewalls you have fewer walls to worry about, and less of an obstacle course of guy lines and stakes. But frankly, I'd forgo adding sidewalls, and just use the extra cloth over individual tents & vehicles as needed, being careful to not create a situation where you have the cloth sliding over & scratching the paint on your cars.
Because I'm sure you don't have the time to have the cloth hemmed & grommeted at a tarp & awning shop, to secure cloth at the ground level you could either batten the edges between two 1x4s screwed or bolted together, or with strips of plywood screwed to a 2x4.... or fold the cloth under at the corners or along the ends and add plastic grommets (bring a hole punch).... or just tie a knot around a tennis ball or a smooth stone. Bring a 1/2 inch drill bit to make holes in the battens to run rope thru.
Seems to me that design works best repeated linearly, creating a long gallery, rather than crowded into a triangle. I'd do this with the personal shade as well as the common shade, so if you try to add sidewalls you have fewer walls to worry about, and less of an obstacle course of guy lines and stakes. But frankly, I'd forgo adding sidewalls, and just use the extra cloth over individual tents & vehicles as needed, being careful to not create a situation where you have the cloth sliding over & scratching the paint on your cars.
Because I'm sure you don't have the time to have the cloth hemmed & grommeted at a tarp & awning shop, to secure cloth at the ground level you could either batten the edges between two 1x4s screwed or bolted together, or with strips of plywood screwed to a 2x4.... or fold the cloth under at the corners or along the ends and add plastic grommets (bring a hole punch).... or just tie a knot around a tennis ball or a smooth stone. Bring a 1/2 inch drill bit to make holes in the battens to run rope thru.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
We basically simplified the disorient Delta Shade structure mentioned above for our own enclosed needs. And please give Architects shit, any excuse they get to have their shit knocked down a peg or two is game on for me, this opinion is probably partly while i'm looking at going into visualisation!ilmarinen wrote:I have to rib on architects a bit as I work with them so much. I'm the site design guy in a mixed-disciplined office. Most of the engineers work on the long-skinny projects (roads) while I work on the big square ones. I support architectural projects, designing the site work around them--big sites with roads, utilities, etc. We do mostly municipal architecture--that is, big semi-industrial like building for utilities/agencies, etc.
Some of them are great. I have a lot more respect for the range of their technical knowledge since working closely with them last few years.
That structure is pretty cool--I've seen it on some other sites? Right? Other pictures at least. Is that the original and only so far or are you inspired by another design? Got any construction pages on it? How well does it pack? I assume all the triangles break-down.
-B.
Firmwood wrote:HA, well mr engineer, us architects managed this...
And we're quite happy with the damn thin.
Actually having said that, i'd rather not be associated with architects, too much ego and self-hatred for my liking. I just want to be free, maaan.
So yea, above problems, solved.
http://wiki.disorient.info/index.php?title=Delta_Shade
Bob, yes, I agree, we'll certainly be doing that with the sleeping spaces, although we're going to attempt to a tripple structure space with attriums (different to that above) for the communal space. Innitially we're going to give it a bash with simple rebar on the 2x4s touching the ground, and if this doesn't feel safe enough we'll rope it from the points, although I'm fairly confident this will stay in place (although if you feel otherwise i'd appreciate a kick up the rear).
The above needs have changed with this design and have made the prospect of attaching cloth to the whole thing a shit load easier, we're goin to attach the side pieces on in some sort of quick release fashion that will 'give' in the event of high winds (maybe just zip ties or something) to be on the safe side.