Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

[can't sit still]

YGMIR, the USSR was to a big degree shaped by the paranoia of nikita khrushchev. He wanted lots of buffer counries outside Russia. Even the Tsars and Stalin liked a lot of space.
With the breakup of the USSR, Russia noticed that nobody invaded them. They didn't need to be so insulated and paranoid. With this realisation, they didn't hold on so tight to their sattelites. Everybody from little Estonia to huge Ukraine was more or less free to some degree of self-detirmination. They were able to get their house in order. They rebuilt because of the blessings of abundant oil. This same oil created problems with the oil majors who are running out of the goo.
The bankers and big oil worked to destabilise and control the former sattelites. Russia tolerated this until Georgia stepped over the line and invaded Ossetia.
Russia doesn't seem to have plans to re-acquire her former sattelites. She just wants to make sure that they're not pawns of the CIA.
This invasion will be a good object-lesson to the other breakaway republics to not fall under western control.
It's not a dangerous situation for the non-participants. If America goes in there with people and equipment to stop the Russians, it could become more dangerous. There are limits even to the stupidity of the neocons. Let's hope that the Americans don't do any more than evacuate their operatives.
Dan

[ygmir]

I do so enjoy your posts.............

one thing I see there, that intrigues me, is, when you refer to an "This invasion will be a good object-lesson to the other breakaway republics to not fall under western control. "

I'd take from that, that, as long as they do what Russia wants, they won't get over run, invaded, absorbed, whatever?

I don't know that I'd agree with defending any of those countries, but, I don't agree with Russia laying out the terms of their existence.......

But then again, I don't agree with the aid we send Israel, either.........

To many people, with to much time, and, not enough to think about, wanting to run others and tell them how to do it...........

And, the power to do so...........

Yikes!!!!

[can't sit still]

"I do so enjoy your posts............. "
Thanks

"I'd take from that, that, as long as they do what Russia wants, they won't get over run, invaded, absorbed, whatever?"
Russia let the breakaway states control their own economy and military,,,, no problem. Most? of the people in Ossetia have Russian passports and consider themselves to be Russian.
Wiki says; The Ossetian-speaking area south to the main Caucasus ridge is within the de jure borders of Georgia but is largely under the control of the Russian-backed de facto government of the unrecognized Republic of South Ossetia. The northern portion of the region consists of the republic of North Ossetia-Alania within the Russian Federation.
The area is de facto Russian controlled. Georgia initiated a military attack. The Russians left Georgia alone until they got stupid. I don't believe that the former satelittes have anything to worry about if they don't attack Russia.
Some of the former Warsaw-Pact countries are asking for trouble by letting the US place missles on their soil. Russia could attack Poland because they agreed to host US missles. Instead, they just told the US that they'll blow the shit out of the missles if they fel like it. http://www.mnweekly.ru/news/20080124/55305669.html
I'd have to say that they're being fairly restrained. The US threatened to nuke Russia when they put missles next-door in Cuba.
Russia will just wait for the collapse of the US economy; http://theinternationalforecaster.com/I ... iving_Dead
That will pull the teeth from the military-industrial killing business. They were hoping to revive the cold war $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and add that on top of the war on terror $$$$$$$$$$$ combined with the war on drugs $$$$$$$$$ . The war on drugs is doubly profitable. The CIA brings them in $$$$$$$$$$$$ and the police/FBI charge to try to intercept them$$$$$$$$$$
They know that the war on drugs does more harm than good; http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... drugstrade BUT, it is a real money maker. That's all that matters.
I don't know where we're going but we seem to be getting there FAST.
Dan

[ygmir]

It almost seems like you condone military action by Russia, as if another country "had it coming".....Like Poland in your reference to letting our missiles be there...........
but, probably not when we do it.......and I don't defend us doing it, I just think aggression isn't ok.........or bullying........by anyone, us or them.......

I dunno, I don't think we'll attack Russia.......

I think your analogy/comparison to the Cuban thing is off somewhat.....
JFK, et al, didn't at that time, I think, realize the scope of nuclear conflict......

and, I'm not convinced that so much of what we read and hear is what they want us to, that back room deals are made, and the the participants are allowed to posture for the "people", to gain whatever internal powers they want........
IMHO:
there is so much to all these "incidents" and conflicts, that, for right or wrong, we have no info or clue about......

I just wish I could trust the PIC to do what's right.....for us, not them only........

And, it's general mis-trust, regardless of party, etc..........

[DVD Burner]

I dont know about you guys But I find this all kinda strange this is all starting to happen so close to the election.
I can see an excuse coming about for a martial law.
As far fetched as it may sound.

[ygmir]

yeah, the martial law idea comes up, it seems, every election when it's a second term.......

I also remember talk about the Clintons, where, Algore resigned, Bill appoints Hillary vice prez, Bill resigns, some sort of contstitutional shennanagens, and, they go back and forth forever.......(I wish I could remember the mechanism and details, IIRC, it would work)

I think both cases are, although possible, not very likely.........

interesting to think about, though.

I think, so far, they know they've not fullfilled the second rule of government ...........


Rule1:
don't piss off the peasants

Rule2:
If you're going to piss off the peasants, dis-arm them first......

I think part of the close to the election thing is those in power now don't have to worry about re-election......

and, other world powers know who's there and, with a new prez, it'll be more of a crap shoot as far as our reaction......

[DVD Burner]

House to Rethink Drilling, Pelosi Says


By CARL HULSE
Published: August 16, 2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/washi ... si.html?hp

WASHINGTON — Dropping her opposition to a vote on coastal oil exploration, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Saturday that the House would consider expanded offshore drilling as part of broad energy legislation when Congress returns next month.

In the weekly Democratic radio address, Ms. Pelosi criticized Republicans as focusing too narrowly on offshore drilling as a solution to high gasoline prices, but said she would bow to demands that the House revisit a drilling ban that has been imposed annually since the 1980s.

She said legislation being assembled by Democrats “will consider opening portions of the Outer Continental Shelf for drilling, with appropriate safeguards, and without taxpayer subsidies to big oil.â€

[can't sit still]

The republicans and big oil have shot themselves in the foot. They couldn't get coastal oil to the market within 4 years. The greedy bastards have pushed the price so high, money is moving into wind and solar. Wind and solar is a 1 time expenditure,,, with maintainance , of course. Oil is doing such wild fluctuations that industry can't make long-term plans. Wind/solar is a known expenditure. Industry is pushing alternative energy and oil doesn't like it. Now, they talk about opening the reserve.

As the economy crashes, there will be less demand for oil and less money available for exploration. Both big-oil and wind/solar will be caught in a squeeze. What a mess.

[ygmir]

yeah, what a mess:
But:
in all this is great potential........Dirty, greedy business, politicians (all), governments, etc....may have done us a long term service.
Perhaps,
we will wake up to how things work, what's best for long term survival and prosperity, and self-reliance (hmmmm even BM related).

Sometimes, you gotta stir the pot to make good stew........

Yup, it'll probably hurt, and, be unfair, but, it may end up good.......
Some folks think the world revolves around them, and, their immediate needs and wants. No thought of long term, etc.........Just the idea that if it's not what they want, it's not ok.....

And, life ain't fair: Nature ain't fair:
we see this all the time.
so much of the perception, and, peoples whining about things being "unfair" comes from lack of personal responsibility, and again, self-reliance........So many live life between the ski boat, working 60 hour weeks, big screen t.v., drug of choice, the grocery store and mechanics.......

some fail to learn even basic ways to deal with things, they hire someone to do everything for them, even raise their kids..........
Can't change a light bulb, but, is really good at selling someone a car......

(I use this as example only, not to single out car sales folks)

That's all fine when things are rosy......
what happens, in the many scenarios put forth in this thread if/when the power fails, by accident or on purpose.......or whatever catastrophe......

Probably 1/3 of the population would die in 3 weeks not knowing what to do without a refrigerator, A/C, grocery store, and hot water in the sink, let alone indoor plumbing and toilets.....

Perhaps all the coming upheaval, if it does happen, will make people the stronger on the other side.......kind of a Darwin thing.........

Anyway,
just some random thoughts, again......

[can't sit still]

You know, it's pretty funny when they talk about drilling off-shore. There's TONS of oil to be drilled without getting your feet wet.
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
Cheney,,,et al doesn't want oil to be too plentiful. Squeeze the supply to get a higher price.
NEDRA has done super-deep drilling; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole
It's well, accepted where oil should be found. Find a salt dome and drill under it. Reportedly , Russia has perfected deep drilling and is finding oil under basalt,,, of all things. http://www.rense.com/general75/zoil.htm
Oil was once thought to be biotic,,, dinosaur juice. It's been well established that oil is the blood of the earth. Velicovsky was the first to talk about this. Later, when depleted oil fields were found to be refilling, it was discovered to be a result of seepage from below.
The Russians found oil in the white tiger fields in Viet-Nam where the Americans said that there was none.
If the new attitude and knowledge about deep oil is true, there is far more oil than thought. Hubbert's peak is an elegant projection of our oil supply. It is based on accepted knowledge about deposits of petroleum. If the accepted knowledge is incorrect, the conclusions of his theories are probably incorrect.
The Russians are doing super-deep drilling and the Brazilians are doing deep water drilling http://www.energy-business-review.com/a ... AF1C7EE4C7
Thus, new technology is invalidating Hubbert's projections. Don't hold your breath waiting for peak oil.
The problem is that while we may have lots of oil, the oceans, topsoil, fresh water and atmosphere are degrading rapidly.
Agenda 21 [above] would have us return to hunter-gatherers. I seriously doubt that the brain power at the top of the united nations could best a smart 5th grader. Where do they get their inspiration?

The money powers force us to stick with old technology. New technology applied without all the greed could result in universal education and a stable pop/birth rate. I doubt that it is going to be allowed to be implemented.
Instead, the population corrections will be introduced chaotically. Peak oil is out,,, peak jobs are in.
Job shortages have historically been allievated with wars. Make everybody a soldier and then kill as many of them as possible. Nowadays we fight war with expensive equipment instead of cheap soldiers. It's just getting so much more expensive to kill large numbers of people,,,, what's a despot to do? The obvious solution is bio-war
"North Korean Microbiologist, Dr. Ri Chae Woo, was working on a whites-only ethnic-specific Bio weapon when he defected from his underground laboratory at Chubari Chemical Corporation in Anbyon, North Korea"
http://www.thepalmbeachtimes.com/Pages/ ... ough2.html
Who knows where the truth lies?

[Ugly Dougly]

Musharaf's gone
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0819/p01s09-wosc.html
"The United States lost a stalwart ally in its war on terror Monday when Pervez Musharraf resigned as president to avoid a looming impeachment battle. "

Stalwart? The normally objective CSM has dropped the ball here, folks.

Excuse me, you have THREE provinces where your troops cannot go, all evidence points to OBL living in one of those three provinces, and your answer is, "we are certain that he is in Somalia".

Oh, and Pervez, don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

[ZaphodBurner]

CNN:

' President Dmitry Medvedev said: "The world has seen that even today, there are political morons who are ready to kill innocent and defenseless people in order to satisfy their self-serving interests, while compensating for their own inability to resolve complicated issues by using the most terrible solution -- by exterminating an entire people."

"I think that there should be no mercy for that. We will do our best not to let this crime go unpunished."...'

Uh... what? Lessee....Russian tanks invade Georgia = Georgia "morons" ready to kill innocent and defenseless people.

Just remember: somehow, this is all America's fault.

[can't sit still]

Zaph, I feel safe in conceeding that there is much that I don't see. Here is a blog that talks about what the future is for Russia. http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/ ... front.html
The guy has observations and deductions that take your breath away.
He may be right or wrong. He does appear to have a good assesment of the Russian psyche. http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/ ... l-war.html
All I can do is to read it and shift it away into files that need more corroboration. He has gone from a simple pipeline problem to a total eurasian war. It's hard to completely ignore his projections, Dan

[ZaphodBurner]

Zaph, I feel safe in conceeding that there is much that I don't see. Here is a blog that talks about what the future is for Russia. http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/ ... front.html
The guy has observations and deductions that take your breath away.
He may be right or wrong. He does appear to have a good assesment of the Russian psyche. http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/ ... l-war.html
All I can do is to read it and shift it away into files that need more corroboration. He has gone from a simple pipeline problem to a total eurasian war. It's hard to completely ignore his projections, Dan

Thanks for the link! Getting ready to read it.

My stepfather was a Latvian refugee whose grandparents were sent to Siberia for refusing to give their land to some Soviet official. In the 4th grade we got this Polish kid named Krys who defected with his family when the KGB showed up with semiautos in his classroom and arrested the teacher for being a dissident. His father and uncle were split from the mothers and kids and they never saw each other again. He freaked out and had to go to counselling one time when a couple of adults came into the classroom. Another guy I know, a Ukranian, refers to Russians as "Potato munching barbarians" and practically spits when he mentions them for what they did to his family, and, finally, a guy I worked with in MountainView was a navigator on a Russian submarine that had nukes pointed at Barcelona. (Only he, the CO and XO knew exactly where they were for months on end.) Even HE distrusted Russia.

I'm not Russia-bashing here, but I think what is going to happen is that all of these eastern bloc countries are going to draw the line and say that the liberation from the Nazis was one thing, but they're not going to get sucked into Russian rule again. It's going to backfire on Russia bigtime because even -China- distrusts them. The only question, then, becomes, how will Russia react to whatever happens?

-c

[Ugly Dougly]

CNN:

' President Dmitry Medvedev said: "The world has seen that even today, there are political morons who are ready to kill innocent and defenseless people in order to satisfy their self-serving interests, while compensating for their own inability to resolve complicated issues by using the most terrible solution -- by exterminating an entire people."

"I think that there should be no mercy for that. We will do our best not to let this crime go unpunished."...'

Uh... what? Lessee....Russian tanks invade Georgia = Georgia "morons" ready to kill innocent and defenseless people.

Just remember: somehow, this is all America's fault.

There were some ethnic Russians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia that Georgia was ethnic cleansing, but since CNN didn't highlight that for you, therefore it didn't happen.

[ZaphodBurner]

CNN:

' President Dmitry Medvedev said: "The world has seen that even today, there are political morons who are ready to kill innocent and defenseless people in order to satisfy their self-serving interests, while compensating for their own inability to resolve complicated issues by using the most terrible solution -- by exterminating an entire people."

"I think that there should be no mercy for that. We will do our best not to let this crime go unpunished."...'

Uh... what? Lessee....Russian tanks invade Georgia = Georgia "morons" ready to kill innocent and defenseless people.

Just remember: somehow, this is all America's fault.

There were some ethnic Russians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia that Georgia was ethnic cleansing, but since CNN didn't highlight that for you, therefore it didn't happen.

Oh, I'm sure. They reported as much in Pravda.

[Ugly Dougly]

No, actually it was the CSM.
"Russia-Georgia conflict: Why both sides have valid points"
How is it surprising that both sides contribute to conflict? This isn't a comic book, there are no bad guys in black hats marching around to the Darth Vader theme.

[ygmir]

is it me, or, are the Russians and French polar opposites?
Which is "bizzaro" which?

[can't sit still]

Georgia gets the stupid award. They took up arms against Russia "thinking" that Russia wouldn't catch on ahead of time. The FSB is not stupid. Russia was all prepared with BBC reporters imbedded in the military. Considering the very well known risk of attacking Russian interests and the impossibility of preparing secretly, the Georgians were totally unrealistic expecting good results.

I posted 2 links above at Lamecherry. The important thing to remember is that not all cultures think alike. The Russian psyche is very dark and brooding. You see this in everything from literature to archetecture. The turd in the oval office is trying somewhat sucessfully to ring Russia with missles. The west and NATO have been chipping away at Russia for decades.
This would make anybody paranoid,, doubly so for Russia. Russia has always used heavy-handed and draconian tacticts. Countless millions have died. The Russian psyche is the product of Stalin and Khrushchev. It is brutal and prefers to be left alone.
The fiasco was completely predictable so it was also completely stupid.
Various writers have suggested that Georgia was sacrificed to give Russia a black eye.
The upsetting thing about all this is that both the US and Russia are only a small step away from using tactical nukes.
The media is 98% owned by jews. Israel is in trouble because she pissed off her neighbors. The US vaporised a few hundred tons of depleted uranium on her neighbors. The media ignores the barbarity of this low-level nuclear war even though American and Iraquis are born with terrible deformities.
Is "limited" nuclear exchange with Russia, Iran and Pakistan the next thing on the agenda? Lieberman and MSM seem to project the idea that it is unavoidable. McCain says 100 years of war.
It's not a pretty picture. Apparently Israel wants to jump-start the process by attacking Iran. They can't possibly fight Lebanon, Syria and Iran at the same time. It would have to be done with nukes. Are we gradually being eased into a mindset where nuclear exchanges are a matter of course? No one is threatening us. Why should we get dragged into endless wars?

[ygmir]

yeah, I'd agree Russia is dark and brutal......and wants to be left alone.
But, I don't think they're willing to leave others alone.......I think that's part of why the border countries are favoring our missiles there....they are just waiting for Russia to decide to expand, again..........

I'd also submit that with Russia's Psyche,,,,,the only thing they really understand is force, or, the real threat of same..........and said threat being able to win decisively........
Otherwise, they'll try it anyway.......

IMHO.

It's a good question you ask about being shuttled into accepting tacticle nuke use......I'd bet they'll try it in the Mideast........and see how the world reacts........
I'd see the Russians benefiting from it.....they have no real concern for fallout or pollution, so, would see it as an opportunity to move south and take oil areas and also obtain arable land and seaports.........
Once the region is in shambles, they just move in....or install a puppet (sock?) in their stead.........

It would be interesting, though, if the region goes wacky (er), and completely destabilizes, what the Chinese would do........
They're right there, too.
And, there's no love lost between them and the Russians.......

Bummer is, being in the northern hemisphere, we'll get a lot of the fallout, dust, etc.........dang........

dudu, du, du, du, Diggin in here folks......( in Porky Pigs voice).........

[Ugly Dougly]

Right-o. You got a bear that stood astride half the known world not a generation ago; now you got him in a cage and you're poking him with sticks.

I guess we're cultivating our next generation of enemies for after Osama dies of old age.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

They are all falling in the USA plans of world domination and pork stew.

Apples fall from the tree

[can't sit still]

You can't talk about the Russian empire and ignore the British empire. In many ways the US is an extension of the British empire. "the sun never sets on the British empire" The US now has military bases in 180 countries. We buy all the leaders that we need to get what we want, Musharev being the latest example.
Our current problem is the inordinate influence that israel has on the US. At this moment, we have dozens of US ships headed to blockade Iran,,, though we deny it. We deny the intention to blockade not the destination. A blockade is an act of war. Now, along comes Russia and they're sending a carrier battle group to Syria.
http://www.barentsobserver.com/russia-s ... 16149.html
The dicider sent the navy to the coast of Iran to provoke a war. That didn't happen, so now he wants to blockade the country with a much bigger battle group. Now , Russia is headed to the same area. Does anybody see what the likely outcome is going to be?
I don't want to sound pesimistic, but shitheads like Olmert's gang and Lieberman want a war in the worst way before bush leaves.
We will soon have 1,000 extra nuclear weapons floating around the middle-east. The neos are so deluded that they the US coming out on top, no matter what the cost.
The Russians will, of course, be outnumbered. That doesn't mean that they can't crash our economy and then pick off the pieces.
The russians have 1/2 trillion of our bonds and they supply us with oil. If MOSSAD can't pull off a false-flag attack, the US will have to back down. Europe and Japan will demand it to avoid the loss of all energy this winter.

If Iran or MOSSAD start a war, it will go to nukes right away because israel and Russia will be way outnumbered by their oponents.

I'm hoping that somebody more knowledgable than myself will paint a happier, yet accurate scenario.

[can't sit still]

It is apparent that the balance of power is rapidly changing. Under the influence of Cheney and israel, we have pissed of everybody.
The oil majors [Shell, standard, etc] are out of oil to sell. It's owned and being sold by countries not companies. The majors tried to steal the oil to sell to us. It's not working.
The world is tired of our shit. Russia is selling $2 billion in missles to India.
Russia is signing major arms contracts with Indonesia and Saudi.
The caspian basin countries are ditching the US in favor of China and Russia. The US has tried to surround Russia with missles. Russia, knowing that this has been done at the behest of israel is now in the process of surrounding israel with missles.
Russia recently held defense talks with Jordan, Syria and Iran. Egypt is about to boil over from food shortages. The US won't help because of israel. Russia will be arming and feeding Egypt.
China and Russia are implementing huge contracts for oil and defense with Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Indonesia, Saudi, and the Caspian basin countries.
The majority of US treasury debt is held by China, Russia, Saudi and Japan. The US survives by borowing <2> billion a day. Our combined debt is $37 trillion with $92 trillion in legacy debt.
If we default and tell our creditors to take a hike, that will be the end of foreign investment in US bonds.
The US is making one last grasp/gasp for foreign oil. In the unlikely event that we get the oil, we might start WW III and cut off our credit.
The US has lots of oil but prefers to steal it from others. Just as Russia controls half of the energy going to europe, it will soon control the oil spigot to the US.
The US is in a position of of starting war on the energy suppliers of our major creditors. It's unclear to me just how dangerous this is, BUT; http://www.rense.com/general83/laro.htm
1/3 of the income to the US goes to service the interest on our debt. Our creditors are cutting back on their exposure. The treasury can only sell 90 day bonds,,, no 30 year. Supposedly, China is going to bail after the olympics. The US can continue to print money to pay internal debts, but foreigners are going to demand hard assets if we default. The oil will stop flowing and go to China and India instead.
Foreign investors don't see any long-term viability with the US. Given our debt load and our politics, I find it hard to disagree,, sorry, Dan
http://www.rense.com/general83/match.htm

[ygmir]

Kind of interesting that so many counties are buying Russian hardware. It is notoriously flawed.......it looks good but doesn't work very well. or, for very long........

It must be a bargain............

And, of course, I'm sure, some of that is posturing etc, by these countries, so be on, in their opinion, the winning side........

I'd see India and Pakistan going at it.......and understand both want to arm up........and both don't care who or how many die........


I remember reading, at some point, about a "plan" the U.S. put in place long ago.
IIRC, it was to use everyone else's oil first, even at high prices and short term dis-advantage, so, at the "end", we were the last one with oil.......
I don't know if that applies, but, it might explain some of what's going on........

I think some of the problem is, that, oil is not as scarce as they used to think it was........
True, it's getting harder to get, but, I don't think we're anywhere near "out", just out of the easy stuff.........deep drilling, oceanic, tar sands, oil shale, etc........

I think, too, that we all operate on limited knowledge in these subjects.

We glean what we can, where we can, but, don't really get the "whole picture", because, the PIC keep it under cover......
and manipulate us though the info they "let out"...........

It'd be so intriguing to know the truth, on so much of what goes on.
Not to mention Roswell........grin.........

The U.S. has certain advantages over much of the rest of the word, though.
We can, if need be, feed ourselves..........we could, INB, get our own energy products. We have raw materials........etc, etc.

I guess if it all goes bad, and, no one likes us anymore, we can internalize and still survive......

Many other nations "have" to get along with others to get what they need........

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but, I do think this is true.

Ok, I'm randomly thinking and "talking" 'cause, truly, I'm distracted by the excitement of next week.........

It'd be neat to find a camp or tent for this thread, in person, and, checking all weapons at the door...........

seeya, playaside.......

[DVD Burner]

hey, where's Joel?
Wonder if he's at the burn?

[Aiee! It burns!]

Josef Stalin ?
I thnk he got re-incarnated as a block of fire wood

[joel the ornery]

hey, where's Joel?
Wonder if he's at the burn?

nope, staying home to save money for a family vacation in November and a reduction kiln someday.

[Ugly Dougly]

[youtube][/youtube]

[ygmir]

wow,
that video really changed my mind.
It's things like that, that, swing elections, and, convince people who's right for the job.

I thought Raul was going to do a good job, but, now, I'd say, we stick with Fidel...........maybe he did die years ago and this is a stand in, but, at least we know him.............