How would Treasure Island Work...

All things outside of Burning Man.
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Rob the Wop
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Re: There is an awakening

Post by Rob the Wop » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote: BM is a work of man and should be placed among works of men.
Well shoot BRR, this doesn't make sense to me.

A) If you truely live by this philosophy, you wouldn't have built your house in an empty valley. You then intruded a work of man into a place of nature. There are tons of caves that could be renovated without blighting the landscape.

B) Burning Man is not a permenant fixture. It disappears through a very concerted and massive effort to do so. Ergo we ARE leaving a place of nature to itself for all but a month.

C) Or if you feel that an area of nature that is untouched, should remain so- then since we have already touched the area in question, we should continue to hold it in the area it is held.

I'm sorry my friend, but your position looks more as a personal preference than a defense of nature. However, since I do not walk in your shoes- maybe my sense of logic is skewed by civilization.

Question- are all of man's works without merit or beauty?
I go to Burning Man primarily for the art. When a great artist builds a great work, it is expected. When an average man builds a great work, it is a miracle. Burning Man forces the average man to strive for greatness, with varying degrees of success. Does this have merit? Is the resulting effort worth the annual desecration?

The leave no trace policy catches on to a majority of people, and usually further resonates with the individual in a small way. This resonance often turns them into less of a polluter. Are the ideals that are spread worth the event?

Since the event probably won't go away, what would you consider a compomise or act that BM attendees could perform to assist the surrounding nature? A simple "go away" will not achieve your goals. What would make things better?
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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Re: There is an awakening

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:00 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:Question- are all of man's works without merit or beauty?
rob, ya beat me to it...a rich topic unto itself. i spun off a thread to dig down on just the "nature/man/art" portion of this if anyone's interested in joining me...

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 0554#40554

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Black Rock

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:27 pm

A) If you truely live by this philosophy, you wouldn't have built your house in an empty valley. You then intruded a work of man into a place of nature. There are tons of caves that could be renovated without blighting the landscape.

In a prior post I did state that there aren't uninhabited wildernesses. Historically that is true. Man exists in all landscapes other than Antarctica. It is not a question of presence, it is a question of impact of presence.

B) Burning Man is not a permenant fixture. It disappears through a very concerted and massive effort to do so. Ergo we ARE leaving a place of nature to itself for all but a month.

The major problem with Burning Man in the Black Rock is the permanent impact. 15 years ago the Black Rock was an unknown, visitor use annually was in the very low thousands, if not hundreds. The last visitor figures I have seen were for year 2000. 10,000 visitors other than the 25,000 Burning man attendees. The increased publicity of (primarily) the Burning man event has increased visitor use of the Black Rock Desert exponentally. That use will continue to increase, BLM now plans a campground suitable for RV's.. Increase use means increase regulation. California is a great example of that.

C) Or if you feel that an area of nature that is untouched, should remain so- then since we have already touched the area in question, we should continue to hold it in the area it is held.

As I stated above, in fact, it is not presence of man, it is the impact of the presence. In my opinion man is the problem. Be sure to differentiate between what is fact and what is my opinion. A Vox Clamantis in Deserto will have a righteous assumption of enlightenment and will grate on nerves. No apologies.

BM is as I am sure you will agree an out growth of our technological industrial culture. It is not sand, rock, cactus, buzzard, scorpion. It is in effect a Neon Wilderness. You can have it... But to place it in a place of surreal beauty such as the Black Rock Desert, or Tuolumne Meadows? Surely,, there is a more suitable habitat..



Question- are all of man's works without merit or beauty? The Parthenon is strikingly beautiful. But what has man produced to compare with a scorpion?

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Re: Black Rock

Post by Rob the Wop » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:37 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote: Question- are all of man's works without merit or beauty? The Parthenon is strikingly beautiful. But what has man produced to compare with a scorpion?
Image
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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Post by Guest » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:48 pm

As I stated above, in fact, it is not presence of man, it is the impact of the presence.
regardless of site, the "can people tread as lightly as possible, perhaps even to the ideal of true 'leave no trace'?" question is valid...whether at an individual level, or at the level of BM.

also, there are no quick fixes -- REGARDLESS of where the event is held, this ideal should stand true.

in addition to every person out there picking up every piece of "stuff" that has been brought to the desert with them and taking it back home, what are the other impacts that we, as a community, should be thinking about? what would be the, say, top 3 things that would be next on the list to improve? let's figure out a solution to those three, then the next three, and so forth, and continually improve, no?

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Re: Black Rock

Post by Rob the Wop » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:11 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:It is not a question of presence, it is a question of impact of presence.
So what you are saying is that your impact is acceptable, but our impact is not. Your permenant structure in a pristine valley is fine, but our temporary city on a dry lake bed is not.
Black Rock Ric wrote: 15 years ago the Black Rock was an unknown, visitor use annually was in the very low thousands, if not hundreds. The last visitor figures I have seen were for year 2000. 10,000 visitors other than the 25,000 Burning man attendees.
Again, so you visiting the Black Rock playa is acceptable, but others wanting to visit it is not. I can understand the desire to prevent the playa from becoming a Disneyland, but 10,000 a year is not that harsh a number considering the sheer size of the area.

I'm assuming you created this forum for the sole purpose of stating your greivances towards our encroachment on the area. If your purpose is to find another place for Burning Man, you are missing your mark.

I honestly don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this one. Mostly because the beauty you find on the dry lake bed is not the beauty I have ever found on one. Sounds like you have a poetic soul my friend. I hope our gathering doesn't cause you too much distress. I'm pretty much done in this forum as there isn't anything much more I could say that I haven't already.

I also hope you find some way to appeal to our group so that you can gain something for your desert. Man can destroy, but he can also create and protect. There are a lot of idealistic people on this board, and they share in that they are willing to travel quite a ways and do a lot of hard work for things others can enjoy. All usually at a great expense to themselves. Could you ask for a better group to pitch an idea to?
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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Rob

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:18 am

You make two assumptions. first that I have a permanent structure, second that Black Rock City is a temporary intrusion.

I have a trailer, Black Rock City is visible year round. In the fall after BM there are industrial structures on the site Large tanks of fuel or water or both also shop or office type structures. Also the area is harrowed, which while serving to assist in cleanup is a strikingly non natural..The beautiful plates of cracked mud,, gone.. While 10,000 is not a large number of people compared to California or western Oregon usage, it is a huge number for rural Nevada usage. For an area without facilities it has the greatest numbers of visitors of any rural area in Nevada. While the area is huge, usage is concentrated along one road, one jeep trail and the playa travel ways. Most camping occurs at one of three hotspring.. At Double Hot I used to camp alone frequently, I have not seen it without campers during the dry season in years. One of the BLM characteristics of designated wilderness is "sense of isolation" if you are familar with the desert you can understand that "sense of isolation" is a desireable characteristic, even if you don't entirely agree with it. That sense of isolation is hard to find on or near the playa any more.

Genghis looks for a common ground solution.. Lack of publicity would be nice. There is a hotspring that we go to in the spring well south of Tonopah. There are fine stone hot tubs in an isolated corner of the desert, a few people are found there. Publicity would ruin it. So, most of us who go there
don't publicize it. It remains relatively quiet. There are enough people playing guitars and drums to remind me that if I did go to BM I would not sleep well. If you guess of which I speak, again, keep it quiet.


Got another Poem for you.
Mourning the broken balance, the hopeless prostration of the earth
Under men's hands and their minds,
The beautiful places killed like rabbits to make a city,
The spreading fungus, the slime-threads
And spores; my own coast's obscene future: I remember the farther
Future, and the last man dying
Without succession under the confident eyes of the stars.
It was only a moment's accident,
The race that plagued us; the world resumes the old lonely immortal
Splendor; from here I can even
Perceive that that snuffed candle had something . . . a fantastic virtue,
A faint and unshapely pathos . . .
So death will flatter them at last: what, even the bald ape's by-shot
Was moderately admirable?



The Answer

.
Then what is the answer?- Not to be deluded by dreams.
To know that great civilizations have broken down into violence,
and their tyrants come, many times before.
When open violence appears, to avoid it with honor or choose
the least ugly faction; these evils are essential.
To keep one's own integrity, be merciful and uncorrupted
and not wish for evil; and not be duped
By dreams of universal justice or happiness. These dreams will
not be fulfilled.
To know this, and know that however ugly the parts appear
the whole remains beautiful. A severed hand
Is an ugly thing and man dissevered from the earth and stars
and his history... for contemplation or in fact...
Often appears atrociously ugly. Integrity is wholeness,
the greatest beauty is
Organic wholeness, the wholeness of life and things, the divine beauty
of the universe. Love that, not man
Apart from that, or else you will share man's pitiful confusions,
or drown in despair when his days darken.
RJ

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:39 am

well I just don't understand why, when someone yanks yer chain, y'all jes' toss 'im another one to yank.
cuz it's fun to yank back?

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Stuart

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:59 pm

Stuart, gotta Harley?

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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:19 pm

stuart always gets it.


no fair. :wink:
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

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This will likely annoy someone

Post by Guest » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:58 pm

I wrote this the 15 years or so ago, when the BM first moved to the Black Rock

A Wander through Northwest Nevada
The first thing I saw that morning as I lay in my sleeping bag, warm in the dawn chill, was the sun, a fiery red ball edging over the far horizon, through the steamy mist rising from the hot pond waters. I jumped from my bag into the cold dawn to shoot a photograph before the primeval sunrise was lost to the coming day.

The red wing black birds were already awake singing in their reed fortresses. I made my shot and saw more photos waiting for me, so I took them also. A tall white Snow Egret, blurred by the mist, stalking through the tall grass, caught my attention, and my lens.

The hot spring fed pond waters were a dreamy expressionist mirror in the morning calm. I became aware that far more birds than I could see were chirping, singing, and making the marsh an outland symphony hall.

A Wilderness Oasis

I went on to walk around the marsh in wonder at the lush greenness, the precious water mirrored still, steam rising into the early coolness, the sight and song of a myriad of birds, the regal snow egret stepping daintily, carefully, across the tall grass.
What was this lush marsh?, in Nevada? I looked into the distance beyond the marsh, reassuringly, the sun's harsh glare reflected off of the dry lake bed only a half mile away. The dry lake ringed by the burnt brown mountains, told me that this could only be Nevada. To the west, I saw, as I turned, a massive granite ridge rising thousands of feet above the sterile flat, still holding snow cupped in its rocky folds. The melt waters of those high mountain snowfields fed the luxurious oasis before me.
The misty air softened the edges of the still pond water. The green reeds and sky blue water blended together until the very boundary seemed to be a mirage.

I set down my camera and dove through the blurred boundary. The startling 100 degree temperature of the water wrapped around me like a warmed blanket, surfacing, I had a frog's eye view through the morning mist of the world around me. To the east the red ball of the sun slowly climbed to the sky. Around the edges of the pond small round birds hopped in and out of the reeds lining the shore.

Nevada is so often thought of as utter desolation, only to be raced across as fast as possible between the wonders of Utah and the beauty of California. This small hotspring fed oasis would be a natural wonder in any of our fifty states, yet here it lies, isolated in the nearly barren wildness that is most of the state of Nevada.

Nevada is full of surprises like this, beautiful natural areas scattered across the vast emptiness of the Great Basin. Years ago I began to explore the outback of Nevada, where the population is seldom more than one or two people per square mile. There are no bright lights, no casinos, but instead hundreds of miles of little traveled, mostly dirt roads, leading to seldom visited islands of natural beauty like this oasis. It is easy to spend several days and drive hundreds of miles and not see more than a handful of people, often, no one at all will cross your path.

It takes a special kind of rig to tour backhills Nevada. First, and by far the most important, it must be reliable! A breakdown here will almost always have serious consequences. It must be comfortable, long days down seldom graded roads will wear a driver right down to the nubs.

Four wheel drive is a must, getting stuck fifty miles from a highway is nothing like fun. The ability to carry enough food and gear to survive, including several spare tires is critical. I have found that being able to sleep inside comfortably is pretty important when the wind howls in off the dry lake beds kicking dust clouds thousands of feet high across the landscape at forty or fifty miles an hour.... and never forget the importance of good gas mileage, out here service stations are far and few between, and gas isn't cheap in places like Denio, Gabbs, Duckwater, Beowawie.
Today it is my Dodge 4x4 wagon I am counting on to see me through.

Off to the High Lakes!
This trip I am off to visit to two isolated lakes in northwest Nevada. High Rock lake and Summit lake have aroused my curiosity for years. What are lakes doing out in the middle of utter desolation, just these two, miles from each other yet both up around 8-9,000 feet in elevation?

The Black Rock Desert
After my swim in the hot pond, I eat a quick breakfast and start out across the dry lake bed. The surface is hard and smooth and dead flat all the way to the far distant mountains rimming the prehistoric lake bed. I run the car up to 70 miles per hour. My friend Todd claims to have drive out here for ten minutes at sixty miles an hour with his eyes closed!

A Misplaced Event
This lake bed is a remnant of prehistoric Lake Lahontan, which once covered much of northwestern Nevada. Today the absolutely flat lake bed is known as the Black Rock Desert home to land speed record attempts, hobby rocket launches and the sadly misplaced Burning Man, an attempt it seems to cram thousands of naive urban types in to one of the harshest and once emptiest landscapes in America.

It is after all the very empty vastness that is so compelling here. I pray each Labor Day for a good soaking rain on the mud of the playa, perhaps when thousands are immobilized by deep gumbo mud, requiring food and water drops until the land dries, perhaps by the next summer, someone will come to their senses and move this tribulation on the land to Modesto or Stockton or some such place.

I cruise at an even 70 out across the wide expanse, aiming toward the Black Rock itself, a dark volcanic mass miles away across the lake bed. The Black Rock was named by the first white man to travel in this area, Captain James Fremont, back in 1843 .

My path across the Black Rock desert veered to the north, and left the lake bed close to its northern edge, becoming a rutted, rocky trail, first used by Oregon bound wagon trains 140 years ago, along a narrow valley drained by a watercourse called "Mud Meadow Creek," a long thin line of green grass, a few scraggly willows, with an occasional pool of cloudy water. The valley is bordered by harsh rocky ridges, not a sign of a living thing can be seen up in those stony wastes. The only habitation along fifty miles of bad road is a trailer up in a side canyon. A crude sign at the road says,
"Little Joe Opal Mine."

The valley opens up into a broad high basin 20 miles above the opal mine. A large meadow laced with small streams occupies the center of this basin. This is Mud Meadow. The Oregon bound trains would leave the California trail at Winnemucca, cross the Black Rock desert, come up the along Mud Meadow Creek to this spot, here was welcome grass and water for their oxen. This trip I saw nearly wild range cattle scattered across the meadow. A small group of wild horses ran from my car, dark manes flying in the wind. Nothing much different now than a hundred years ago. Aside from the isolated Soldier Meadows Ranch and bed and breakfast, amazingly enough.

Up to High Rock Lake
I followed the route of the wagons west to a narrow canyon. I had to cross the scattered creeks in four wheel drive, first gear, hoping the mud wasn't too deep. The road rose to follow along the right side of a small, but precipitous gorge. The rock bound gorge was the outlet for High Rock Lake during the glacial epochs, when it was much larger than it is now. I stopped to explore the gorge a bit. Pools of water trapped in the rocky hollows of the stream floor allowed lush vegetation to flourish here protected from the worst of the weather by the narrow walls of the gorge. The area looked to me like a good spot for wild life, if it looked good to me, it probably did to the Paiute Indians also. I poked around the cliff walls some more and found what I had suspected, about thirty feet up on the southfacing canyon wall, warmed by the sun was a small cave. I climbed to it. It was about 15 feet deep and 20 feet across at the mouth. The roof was blacked by the smoke of countless fires over countless centuries. From the entrance I had a fine view into the gorge and back to the east. Mud Meadow lay quietly in the distance.

I continued along the rough road down a steep descent. Here the immigrants chained their wagon wheels immobile to control their speed down the precipitous grade. They like I came to a broad bowl shaped valley bounded on all sides with high peaks. At the south side of the bowl like a spot of milk left in a cereal bowl lay a large sheet of water.

High Rock Lake
The first of my destinations, High Rock Lake. The wagon trail led off to the north again through a slot in the bowl edge. I went south across the crater like bowl to the lake. The wind howled out of the southwest across the valley, its force strong and unbroken as it charged across the flats. Near the lake I found a lonely weatherbeaten line shack built of square cut railroad ties. Inside was a collection of business cards nailed to the wall by visitors over the years. Some of the cards were nearly twenty years old! I found one cautionary rhyme,
"don't go in the lake, the leaches
here are real sons of beaches."

The lake lay just beyond the shack, the shore shelved off very gradually, it would be a long walk in the mud to a swim. The note on the leaches, the cold wind howling around me, and the prospect of icy water were easily enough to dissuade me from trying. Beyond the lake stark mountains rose against the southern sky, their northern slopes still holding snow.

The country here doesn't look like a desert. It is a high mountainous steppe country. It could be Tibet, or Scotland. The ground is covered by sagebrush and other low shrubs constantly battered by the unceasing wind. The sense of utter aloneness that one gets in the high and wild areas of Nevada can be disturbing. It is common to be the only human being in two hundred square miles. Out here one part of my mind is constantly on my car. What if it didn't start when I walked back to it from the lake shore, slid behind the seat, and turned the key? It is comforting to know that it has never let me down.

I retraced my steps along the High Rock gorge and back across Mud meadows. I soon passed Soldier Meadows Ranch driving upward along high desolate ridges. I share this land only with the occasional band of pronghorn antelope.

Summit Lake

Summit Lake is, like High Rock Lake, a remnant of a once much large glacial lake. It too, lies in a high windswept bowl. Here there is an indian reservation, certainly one of the most isolated in the nation. A few small homes and trailers mark the settlement. Endangered Lahontan Cutthroat trout are raised here. Little evidence of any other endeavor of man is to be seen. I drive on by and again across miles of high lonely steppe, eventually coming down from the highlands to the little crossroads community of Denio. with gas, restaurant, and a small motel A Wander through Northwest Nevada

Dan D. Lyon
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Re: This will likely annoy someone

Post by Dan D. Lyon » Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:41 pm

Black Rock Ric wrote:I wrote this the 15 years or so ago, when the BM first moved to the Black Rock...
Not annoyed, but I feel similarly, except from an inside burning man perspective (and without the contempt)…

The first year burning man happened on the Black Rock Desert was 1990. There were roughly 100 people. I was there and pretty much it was my impression that everyone that saw perhaps that very same sunrise, felt much the same awe as you so eloquently described. Perhaps that evening you sat out under the amazing desert star-studded canopy and lit a campfire for warmth. That’s what we did and you certainly were welcome to join the ring of humanity that was in rapture with the moment of being on the earth, in the wind, alive, burning like the stars in the sky.

In 1993, the night of the burn, a storm blew in complete with whiteout dust, rain and continuous lightning all around! Everyone ran for shelter, Mother Nature had completely upstaged our little man and it was awesome. I heard many stories of people becoming fast friends that night finding shelter in whichever tent they stumbled into the near zero visibility. Later that night after the storm passed, the embers of the man were still burning, there were a few people hanging around sharing those stories.

One day in 1995 there was a huge thundercloud that broke open over the burning man village/encampment. It rained buckets, then turned into freezing pea sized hale, all accompanied with a whiteout dust storm. When passed, the sun came out along with a full double rainbow and a 50-degree raise in temperature! At first, as I peeked out of my 30 year old canvas tent that I was supporting from the inside to keep from collapsing, I spied people running and diving in the mud and sliding like otters playing in the snow. The whole town lit up with people playing in the mud; it was a spirited, heartwarming, hilarious sight.

In 1998, 2 days after the event was over, there was a rainstorm on the Black Rock that lasted a few days, it was a real mess. Vehicles that didn’t have 4-wheel drive had to be towed out. Cleanup was drug out for a long time.

Pretty much every year there seems to be a big storm following Labor Day weekend. So far we have survived.

The vastness and remoteness of the Black Rock Desert is monumental. Black Rock city really is not a city, it’s a gathering of individuals and tribes practicing radical self reliance and radical self expression, in a place that is utterly humbling and awe-inspiring.

I also have ventured out away from the playa. The feeling of freedom and remoteness of exploring dirt roads that venture beyond the imagination is palpable. If I were a writer I could tell volumes. My silence comes mostly from desiring to be and do rather than tell about it, but I do thank you for sharing your experience.

Okay, 2 more stories…

A new friend, a neighbor from BRC ’02, is a Vietnam vet. He participated in some nasty aspects of war and still lives with it on a daily basis. He finds much relief with the freedom of expression he experiences at burning man. This year he is returning to Vietnam to volunteer his labor in building a hospital – his way of making reparations.

The first year of burning man on the playa was my first year also. One night after returning to our camp from a glorious soak in Black Rock Springs, I went to sleep and awoke to the blinding light of a moonless, star-saturated heavens. A good friend of mine was walking into the camp with a huge grin on his face. He had just been out wind sailing and recommend that I had to go out… there was a strong steady breeze, I went down wind of the camp and the man, which had a beacon in it, and set out. Tacking into the wind, it was easy to float one of the three wheels off the ground. The only reference points for guidance, besides the man, were the stars. I sailed for hours, though the sensation was like floating through the cosmos, with my gaze focused straight up the mast charting a zigzagging coarse across the Milky Way.

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Post by Badger » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:16 am

One day in 1995 there was a huge thundercloud that broke open over the burning man village/encampment. It rained buckets, then turned into freezing pea sized hale, all accompanied with a whiteout dust storm. When passed, the sun came out along with a full double rainbow and a 50-degree raise in temperature! At first, as I peeked out of my 30 year old canvas tent that I was supporting from the inside to keep from collapsing, I spied people running and diving in the mud and sliding like otters playing in the snow. The whole town lit up with people playing in the mud; it was a spirited, heartwarming, hilarious sight.
I remember. It was one of those perfect moments in BRC.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:57 pm

I run the car up to 70 miles per hour. My friend Todd claims to have drive out here for ten minutes at sixty miles an hour with his eyes closed!

ahhhh, truth comes out. Another offroader revealed.
an affinity for dodge products to boot.


and no, no harley

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Post by Tancorix » Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:01 pm

I wonder if there's a CFR somewhere that covers keeping people out of the darn caves?

At least BM practices LNT principles and we don't go looking around for artifacts and possibly disturbing ancient indian burial sites. I love to explore but I try and practice LNT along with: take only pictures, leave only footrprints.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:42 pm

Tancorix wrote:I wonder if there's a CFR somewhere that covers keeping people out of the darn caves?
Yeah, I'm having difficulty with this thread. (Well, I skip the poetry anyway--on gp.) I can respond to Ric's need for isolation, but it is public land, and where do we draw lines? I also suspect that with the law creating the National Conservation Area specifically allowing for large scale gatherings that BM is only the most visible target. I suspect that given the geography that we (BM) were only ahead of the curve of the public discovery, not the originators. Only to get worse if they pave Junco Road.
And not to flog a dead mustang, but isn't it possible that the way we concieve of and use public lands could be partly ddefined and normalized by those awful SUV commercials?

My best advice, Ric? Alaska. And don't be too near any road. That's an open invitation for company.

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Post by Chai Guy » Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:04 pm

And in related news....


I was just surfing around the net today planning my next vacation when I came across this National Geographic story on how tourism is threatening Machu Picchu. The thing I foud especially ironic was the banner ad just below the headline which implores it's readers to "GO RVing! "

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... machu.html

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:20 pm

The beautiful plates of cracked mud,, gone
what, when you drive over the playa at 70mph in your dodge? Or was that your buddy, with his eyes closed.

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Hoot

Post by Guest » Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:54 pm

This be a hoot... discuss land use with ya'll.. Stu, yu be jess as humorous as can be,,, surely you gotta Harley.. Ya'll see anything in that cute lil article about off road? The playa be off road,, but its fulla people... My little girls say's daddy they makin' one O' them erroneous cognitive leaps,,, from see cave, find cave to loot cave,, Ya'll see anything in that cute lil article about "loot cave"... National Antiquities Act says,,, anything over 50 years old is an artifact and is a felony to collect, that mean that the beer can your grandpa dropped in Yosemete March 10, 1954 is an artifact now, cain't pick it up.. the one he dropped on March 11, cain be picked up for a few more hours, then it be protected to.. LNT Leave No Trace,,, I trust you bag your feces and bottle your urine... Us simple buckaroos, leave horse shit all over the country side, but I bet you cain't describe what the wild horses do,, now that be a real hoot.. I jes may't go to Burning Man, have me a theme camp... bring me my generator, and run "City Slickers" 24/5

Guest

z

Post by Guest » Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:58 pm

Dang missed two points.. BM don't practice LNT,, tain't you been out there two months afterwards,,, see one of my previous posts... Also BM site ain't in the NCA, it done be left out...

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:04 pm

Ya'll see anything in that cute lil article about off road?
um yes. I suggest you reread your own post. Odd how your writing then and now are so different. Must be all that horse shit.

still no harley

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Lets be clear

Post by Guest » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:13 pm

Lets be clear Stuart, There is no discussion of off road driving as none took place aside from the play which scarcely falls under the standard definition of off road driving. If you erroneously think there is point it out so I can show you where you are wrong. But before you do so read the essay again carefully.. Don't screw it up. I don't mind chain yanking back and forth but I have little tolerance for fools.

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Tancorix
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Location: Not here, not there. I'm somewhere though.

Post by Tancorix » Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:25 am

<Plonk!>

Suspicion: Allanon 2 has recreated himself.
Facts: I can't prove nothin, but damn if the behaviors are not eccentric enough to make me wonder!

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:44 am

Black Rock Ric wrote:I ran across this what do you think of the points raised here?
http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/burningman.html
i think that a number of his points (esp. on things like the cafe) are valid. i think that the author has as much right to an opinion as anyone else. i think that if the person feels that BM is not worth their time or money, then no-one is holding a gun to their head and making them go.

it's interesting, though. in addition to the rant, they also have pix of the great time they had at BM, on the same site.

http://www.jwz.org/bman99/

hypocrite, heal thyself.

however, what i really think is that the person who runs that site has way too much free time, whines a LOT, and needs to get out a bit more.

don't bitch, do.

i find it hard to respect someone's wild rantings, esp. when someone has really strong opinions about freshness dates on packaging, and soap, and how his subconscious is causing him to think that his eyeballs are growing uncontrollably.

Guest

Time to ride off into the sunset

Post by Guest » Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:32 am

Well boys, it has been a hoot, but it is time to ride off into the sunset. I got some good information from some of you and learned a lot about the motivations of Burning man attendees from most of you. I have heard of Burning Man attendees referred to as "cultists" as " deranged hippies" " as "satanists", but ya'll just be plain folks, just a bit more defensive than most, use a lot of bad words too. It is true, that we have little in common. You find pleasure in the company of 30,000 people, I would rather stake myself over hot coals. You won't see me at Burning Man in 2004, but I will see you. Hasta

Better be organizing about the power plant, those few of you who care.

Oh, I am an Anthropology professor at one of Northern Califonia's State Universities, doing a longitudinal study on Burning Man,, thanks for the humor and insight.
Publish or Perish lads.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:46 am

I eat a quick breakfast and start out across the dry lake bed. The surface is hard and smooth and dead flat all the way to the far distant mountains rimming the prehistoric lake bed. I run the car up to 70 miles per hour. My friend Todd claims to have drive out here for ten minutes at sixty miles an hour with his eyes closed!
unless you have another horse named car, and quite fast to boot, this is an admission of off road joy riding on our precious playa. Pard'ner.

your intolerance for fools is equalled by mine for hippocrates and missleaders.

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:02 am

stuart wrote:your intolerance for fools is equalled by mine for hippocrates and missleaders.
Image

hippocrates (hih-POC'-ra-tees) was a Greek physician born in 460 BC on the island of Cos, Greece. He became known as the founder of medicine and was regarded as the greatest physician of his time. He based his medical practice on observations and on the study of the human body. He held the belief that illness had a physical and a rational explanation. He rejected the views of his time that considered illness to be caused by superstitions and by possession of evil spirits and disfavor of the gods.

Hippocrates held the belief that the body must be treated as a whole and not just a series of parts. He accurately described disease symptoms and was the first physician to accurately describe the symptoms of pneumonia, as well as epilepsy in children. He believed in the natural healing process of rest, a good diet, fresh air and cleanliness. He noted that there were individual differences in the severity of disease symptoms and that some individuals were better able to cope with their disease and illness than others. He was also the first physician that held the belief that thoughts, ideas, and feelings come from the brain and not the heart as others of him time believed.

Hippocrates traveled throughout Greece practicing his medicine. He founded a medical school on the island of Cos, Greece and began teaching his ideas. He soon developed an Oath of Medical Ethics for physicians to follow. This Oath is taken by physicians today as they begin their medical practice. He died in 377 BC. Today Hippocrates is known as the "Father of Medicine".

http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/Museum/hippoc.html

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Post by Guest » Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:04 am

stuart, your intolerance for one of the great thinkers of ancient greece is appalling.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:07 am

-smirk-

my kingdom for the edit funkshun

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:13 pm

Oh, I am an Anthropology professor at one of Northern Califonia's State Universities, doing a longitudinal study on Burning Man
I'm hoping that academic objectivity will somehow work its way into your tome.

However, I'm not holding my breath.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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