Very bright light on painter pole to find camp at night?

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:32 pm

Louise and I were out on flagging detail after the Burn, so most street signs were gone. The orange poles at each intersection were life savers last year, when we tried to find our camp in a dust storm Monday, and we put a strobe light on a painter pole this year. However, it runs on a single AA, and it didn't last long enough to find our camp. (Our shift started at 11:30 AM, so we left camp after 11, and we got back about 9:00 PM, and the battery had failed.)

I'm looking for a very bright light that will stay on a painter pole and last at full brightness for 12 hours just to be safe. I would like to run it on a 12V battery that has 7.2Amp-hours of power for, say, a total of 36 hours - three nights.

Being on a painter pole means it needs to be lightweight.

Any ideas, thoughts, clues?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:49 am

Endless choices.
How bright do you want it?
A cheap alarm strobe runs $15-30.
You can probably get by with something dimmer.
You could hang a fluorescent or LEDs or even an incandescent flasher.
Or elwire.
Some headlamps have flash modes too.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:21 am

> How bright do you want it?

Well, that's the killer. Last year, we were walking home in a dust storm, and we couldn't see the little strobe from the ground standing beside the pole. (It's maybe 20 feet? Less?)

I want something I can (a) see in the dark from a few hundred yards away on a clear night, but (b) also see in a serious dust storm when we get within a few blocks.

My expected use is when all around us have de-camped, all street signs are gone, and we're coming in from the playa and can't tell which street is 7:00 from the playa - I'd like to see that sucker and know to walk right there. I'd like to be able to see it from within the city when we're walking from our drop-off point BMOrg leaves us at when we come back from flagging.

The single personal strobe is too small to see even when it's bright, and too dim after so many hours. I'd like something bigger and brighter. LEDs, EL wire, etc. probably aren't bright enough if they're the usual AA-powered stuff. Having a line of tube lights or ultra-bright LEDs to run up the pole would help make it visible, but we run into the trade-off of having it powered for 12 hours. I'm willing to make trial runs of the lights, so I'm open to all suggestions, though.

burnerboy33 · Post by **burnerboy33** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:11 am

Phil,

have you tried some of the under carriage running lights for cars? You can get them in fluorescent or LED and they are very efficient. the LEDs can be solid or blinky. What kind of lights did you have on your bike, the ones in the newspaper pic?

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:36 am

Are you familiar with Power Flares?

I use them on my bike at night, but they would probably be great for a pole mounted beacon.

They operate on the lithium cr-123 batteries and I have not changed the batteries in mine since last year before the 07 Burn.

A video I made of mine last year.

They are a little pricey but they are designed to withstand pretty much any abuse you can throw at them including being run over by cars and trucks in the road, etc. and available in multiple color combos.

http://www.powerflare.com/products/index.html

EDIT:
They also run in different sequences.

stargeezer · Post by **stargeezer** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:03 am

There are two major problems with lights that I see. First, during a dust storm when visibility is limited anyway, how far away are you going to see the light. Next, if it is clear and you can see the light from a great distance, what happens if it is somebody else's light that had the same idea. If you carry any kind of pack, why not just throw a gps receiver into it. I know this is not exactly the "in" thing to do, but it can get you within fifty feet of your camp, with no confusion factors. During the week. it could also help you remember how to get back to some interesting camp you want to revisit. Yes, I am a techy, but some tech stuff is definitely better that others.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:09 am

burnerboy33 wrote:have you tried some of the under carriage running lights for cars? You can get them in fluorescent or LED and they are very efficient. the LEDs can be solid or blinky. What kind of lights did you have on your bike, the ones in the newspaper pic?

Good idea! They can be very bright. I'll look into them and see what I can learn about how much power they suck.

Our bikes are lighted by cold cathode tubes:
http://www.vibelights.com/bili.html

I'm not sure the bike lights have the brightness I'm looking for, so I'll compare them to the car running lights for brightness.

BREAK

> Are you familiar with Power Flares?

Yes, we're friends with the guy who makes them, a cop in a nearby town who's also a ham radio operator. I have some hesitation about them, as I don't think they're bright enough, are set up to be thrown on the road and shine up, would have to be duct-taped upside down on the pole, etc. I'll give them some thought as additional lighting for clear nights to make our individual lighting more obvious.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:15 am

Shine up?

These have a 360 viewing angle and rotate around a central axis. The 2 vids I posted are looking down onto the top of the flares.

Zipties do a great job of securing them too.

**burn** · Post by **burn** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:22 am

Phil -

You will find that the 123A batteries CapSmashy recommends will run longer than most alkaline batteries. The Surefire brand is one of the better manufacturers.

And, as I'm sure you know, LED's last a lot longer on batteries and the bulbs last 100,000 hours.

And the orange sign posts were a lifesaver!

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:35 am

> And the orange sign posts were a lifesaver!

Amen to that. Every time we were asked by someone where they were, I'd point'em to the posts so they'd know without asking.

Intubater69 · Post by **Intubater69** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:37 am

I made a flag pole 10' high mounted atop my read-nek tanew kuver on my truck and spiraled it with blue el wire that I could see 200-300 yds away which helped us, never ventured far away nor got caught out during a dust storm so dont know the range then, prob not much. I will make the pole a few ft higher for next yr for increased visibility. Phil, what about using a hand-held gps? I took my garmin, marked camp, but never ventured out with it. Anybody know if a dust storm would disrupt that?

BTW Phil, my North Face Trailhead 6 fared nicely, not too dusty inside although I did take AntiM's advice and cover it with a big comforter.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:40 am

stargeezer wrote:There are two major problems with lights that I see. First, during a dust storm when visibility is limited anyway, how far away are you going to see the light.

That's one of the reasons I want a very bright light. My little amber flasher wasn't visible last year when standing next to the pole in a dust storm. Brighter, better light for it.

stargeezer wrote:Next, if it is clear and you can see the light from a great distance, what happens if it is somebody else's light that had the same idea.

That's also a problem, and one that I can solve with more than one light - a strobe or flashing light with, say, an LED wire wound on the pole and/or a powerflare.

stargeezer wrote:If you carry any kind of pack, why not just throw a gps receiver into it. I know this is not exactly the "in" thing to do, but it can get you within fifty feet of your camp, with no confusion factors. During the week. it could also help you remember how to get back to some interesting camp you want to revisit. Yes, I am a techy, but some tech stuff is definitely better that others.

I have that, too. The battery died, though, on our way home. My goal is to have redundant resources. Lights are easy if we can see them; GPS is okay if the battery is working, but it takes time to turn on, tell it to take me home, etc. Just more work than looking at the light and walking toward it when we're dead tired. Orange poles are our fail safe, but the roads disappear after everyone's pulled up stakes, and you really can't tell if your in a road or a campsite anymore.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:21 am

We use a blue airport strobe. It is mounted on a 30' flag pole that has a fixture in the receiver of our trailer hitch. It runs on 12-36 Volts. It is very bright and can be seen from deep Playa. This is a true story; we were camped across from the DPW Ghetto. Great spot BTW. About 2:00am during one of their loud parties with their flame cannon going, we got a knock on the door of our RV. A camper from the Ghetto said our strobe was too bright and he couldn't sleep. We were on the floor laughing. He returned the next night and again asked us to turn off the strobe. He was serious. More senior members of the Ghetto told me to ignore his requests.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:29 am

My little piece of input is to consider running some wires down the pole and powering from a battery (or whatever) on the ground in your camp. That allows more weight capacity up on the pole for bigger lights, and more power to run 'em.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:17 pm

My little piece of input is to consider running some wires down the pole and powering from a battery (or whatever) on the ground in your camp.

Exactly my plan.

We use a blue airport strobe.

Where does one obtain such a strobe? How did you power it? How long did it run? Etc?

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:58 pm

We found it on Ebay, where else? This is a link to almost identical to what we use. I cannot say how long the batteries would last. We ran a wire down the flag pole and tied into a 12V lead in the genny compartment of our RV. We were on a power grid, so there is no way to determine how long it would last without a recharge. We ran it 24/7.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WHEELOCK-MAX-DC-B-M ... dZViewItem

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:59 pm

BTW, the flag pole was a telescoping 30' model from Camping World.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm

marine marker strobes

http://www.sunbrite.com/sun07.htm

STROBE 300
The best strobe anywhere just got better! Our STROBE 300 Xenon marker strobe has 150% of the brightness and nearly twice the burn time of other strobes. It is 30% brighter than our very popular STROBE 200; the choice of divers, military, and fire fighters worldwide. The double O-ring sealed unit will run 24 hours on a set of batteries and can be seen for several miles at night on the surface. Operates on 3 C-cell alkaline batteries. 1,000 Feet depth rating. 9.25"L x 1.9"W.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:10 pm

Strobes can be power hungry.
You only need slow beats on the flash.

A pure color LED might be more recognizable.
Blue would work well.
I think green and yellow are very efficient too.

Can you use a focused beam?
That would allow lower power.

Strobe power packs are available that can be mounted below the pole.
With a plastic housing, the fixture on the pole could be very light.
The cheaper strobes I mentioned are very light.
Some undercover police strobes are already focused.

If you're willing to spend the money, a low pressure sodium light puts out a pure color spike in yellow and is incredibly efficient.
Useful other times too.
Not tiny though.
Available in 12 volts.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:14 pm

MozyBonz wrote:marine marker strobes

http://www.sunbrite.com/sun07.htm

STROBE 300
The best strobe anywhere just got better! Our STROBE 300 Xenon marker strobe has 150% of the brightness and nearly twice the burn time of other strobes. It is 30% brighter than our very popular STROBE 200; the choice of divers, military, and fire fighters worldwide. The double O-ring sealed unit will run 24 hours on a set of batteries and can be seen for several miles at night on the surface. Operates on 3 C-cell alkaline batteries. 1,000 Feet depth rating. 9.25"L x 1.9"W.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:09 pm

> If you're willing to spend the money, a low pressure sodium light
> puts out a pure color spike in yellow and is incredibly efficient.

Three hundred bucks and up, I'm seeing.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:08 pm

I've seen $250.
You can get an ac one and run it on an inverter.
Might get a used one cheap.
Very pleasant area light too.
Mine is 55 watts and puts out 10,000 lumens.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:11 pm

Mozy, just speaking generally about strobes.
It's all relative.
I didn't see your post till mine was up.

If you use colors, the advantage may go to LEDs.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:43 pm

Scott loved his light bar. You'd have to make sure that having something flashing wouldn't piss off Rangers, ESD of LEOs with color (no red or amber I think would cover it.) I can't find his model, which had 1,000,000 cp, but here's a sample from the people he bought it.

mk-ultra · Post by **mk-ultra** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:25 pm

I second the idea of using marine lights / distress beacons.

I'm a diver and have a very bright xenon strobe I wear on my tank for night dives... and the thing is good for over 72 hours of continuous use (and smaller than a closed fist). Extra points for it being totally water/dust proof.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:02 pm

> have a very bright xenon strobe

Brand? More details, please?

mk-ultra · Post by **mk-ultra** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:09 pm

phil wrote:> have a very bright xenon strobe

Brand? More details, please?

My dive bag is stowed away, but I think all of my lights (including the strobe) are made by Princeton Tec.

Here are some of their dive lights:

http://www.princetontec.com/products/index.php?use=2

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:39 pm

perhaps a shape to a multiple light set up (X or triangle, or star) or some more surface area in a shaped diffusion housing might help to distinguish it from other lights, and make it easier to zero in on.

Thanks for all the good information on this thread. I was lost several times just coming back from the p.a.ps when someone turned off their lights, or packed them in, or parked in front of my blacklight flowered flourescent painted gnome, which I thought I would always spot. not so.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:01 pm

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/store ... rchResults

Uses a remote control.
You could get a really powerful remote and just hook up a strong light.

I saw a flat personal beacon that folded and fit in your pocket.
It had a flashing alternating pattern of red and yellow LEDs and was very dramatic.
I saw it at Bass Pro.
Made of hard yellow plastic.

What about hooking a bigger battery to your current light?
I still think aimed lights might be the best choice unless you want to use it from any direction.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:25 pm

> I still think aimed lights might be the best choice unless you want
> to use it from any direction.

Well, that's the problem. We were at 7:00 oclock and Dart. On Saturday after the Burn, we walked in from the playa. When we did perimeter patrol, we rode our bikes in from the opposite direction on 7:00. When we flagged, the Black Hole was on Dart at 5:30, so we rode toward 7 on Dart. We really did need to see it from all directions.

For information, our strobe was a Princeton Tec Aqua Strobe:
http://www.princetontec.com/products/in ... ype=&use=1
I'm sure it's great underwater, but it's too small on the playa to be readily visible at night, and it only lasts 8 hours. Being able to turn it on when we need it would be very helpful in terms of staying power, but it's still too small on the playa to be readily identified as our strobe.

Very bright light on painter pole to find camp at night?

Very bright light on painter pole to find camp at night?

Seconded