Arrests and Crime stats?

[CapSmashy]

I live in California and I have a note from my doctor that says that I should smoke weed. I should be able to smoke weed legally in the state of Nevada because the voters in the state of Nevada decided that they wanted medical marijuana.

A note? From my understanding, it requires a prescription, just like any other medicine.

And no, it does not necessarily mean you can smoke your prescribed marijuana in Nevada. Does Nevada have a reciprocal agreement with California concerning prescription marijuana? While a scrip should be honored across state lines, it does not necessarily mean that a media/federal government hyped controversial prescription of marijuana would be recognized across state lines.

Why were you prescribed medical marijuana? Just asking out of curiosity.

Unfortunately the powers that be are DIRTY FUCKING FASCISTS and seem to think that the people and their physicians are too dumb to decide what they can put in their own bodies.

Well, that is one way of looking at it.

There is also the perspective of basically an equal number of doctors that say medically prescribed marijuana is not a necessary substance. Why is your doctor better then their doctors?

My doctor graduated from UCLA and then Harvard medical, he seems to think that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol or aspirin.

And there are doctors with every bit as impressive credentials that disagree and substantiate their claims just as well as your doctor can substantiate his.

So why the fuck should I have to hide like a criminal to take my medicine on the playa.

Because under federal law, and possibly under Nevada law, you ARE a criminal for possessing and using marijuana.

I absolutely find it to be absolute and total bullshit that marijuana is illegal, but it does not alter the very real and hard fact that marijuana is still illegal in most cases.

I mean when your young people always tell you shit like '' oh this country's so damn great because we have a democracy and if you don't like something you have the power to change it'' Then the voters change it and the rich bastards who run shit decide that they know whats best for us and that that is to continue throwing people in jail for using or growing a harmless plant. Fuck that shit.

It has nothing to do with someone thinking they know what's best for you. Marijuana, and more importantly hemp, are still illegal to protect corporate profits, not because someone is claiming to be concerned about your safety.

Repeat mantra

MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD
MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD
MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD

Your mantra is flawed. In the past, Democrats have had control of both the White House and Congress for several years and did nothing to overturn marijuana legislation at the federal level.

Your REPUBLICANS BAD mantra line needs to be modified to CORPORATE LOBBIESTS BAD if you want to chant factually.

[unjonharley]

Dear Willy,

THere are federal laws prohibiting weed.. Buring Man is held on federal land.. nuf said.

[vertigo900]

1. BORG has a system in place via the BR Rangers to make complaints about harassing treatment from the various LEO's o the Playa. How many people, including yourself, that have been openly harassed by LEO have utilized this system?

First, I'd like to thank you for the taking the time to post such a thorough, thoughtful, solution-directed reply. I know it takes a while and seems much easier for us to just log into our electronic soap boxes and react by telling someone they're a hyprocrit and f-off. So thanks for being mature, helpful, and a REAL burner! You ROCK!!!

I may be wrong on this, but I am under the assumption that any participant at the event has the right to request a BRC Ranger or other BORG representative be present for any extended session with law enforcement per agreements made between the BORG and the law enforcement agencies present on the Playa.

Again, if this is true, how many people that have had negative encounters have taken advantage of this system?

To my knowledge, unfortunately zero burners involved in the incidents I described have made formal complaints or filled out the BM Law Enforcement Feedback Forms (myself included, but not for long). However, I lost touch with the neighbor who had to walk home barefoot from the BRC jail. I doubt the guy who was approached for digging in his pockets pursued it. It was shocking to everyone and happened so fast.

2. Know your rights. I know you know them, but how many others are walking around clueless as to what law enforcement can and can't do? How many people have voluntarily surrendered their rights when requested to do so by law enforcement and consented to searches of their person and property when prompted to?

The neighbor's camp that was swept up in the random sting so quickly the 20+ LEOs searched the camp, detained and left before the BR Rangers even arrived on site wondering what happened. It was like five minutes.

3. Make some noise. Not after, but during. If you feel your rights are being violated by a law enforcement officer make some fucking noise and draw a crowd.

4. Make some noise afterwards. To the Rangers, to the BORG, to the department you feel violated your rights and if necessary, to a civil rights lawyer. A few out o court settlements for abuse of authority will go a long way to cool the jets of over zealous law enforcement.

The primary point in all of this is to be *dum da dum* radically self reliant in looking out for your own ass as your ass is being violated. And in the same manner, in the spirit of community, looking out for your neighbor is just as important.

Things are going to change.

I know I don't live in a utopia and am not at Martis Gras. This is BLM land which is subject to the civil and criminal laws the United States of America.

You are correct. However, a lot of people do not seem to understand this very basic fact of life while at Burning Man.

Very true.

This same "compliant at the time and complain later" is a very common and disturbing trait that is echoed across all manner of people's lives when dealing with law enforcement in any environment. I find it appalling the number of people that would rather complain in their misery than be proactive in their defense.

Yes, it's one of the fatal missing links in the process of LEO oversight, accountability, and informing them of their daily observed behaviors. I believe is one of several patterns that need to change if the sanctity of the burning man community is going to survive in it's current home of BRC.

When you start being proactive about covering your own ass, get back to me.

I've been an originating party on a civil rights suit that resulted in 6 police officers being fired and 2 of them being federally prosecuted. Do not dare to presume to lecture me on politics or being proactive when it comes to knowing and protecting my rights.

Thanks for pointing out the irony of my words vs actions. I will try to do better in the future. Nice work btw on acting out on the behalf of others rights!

And yes, I am sure we would get along quite nicely in BRC. Stop by the Booby Bar next year and I'll I'll buy you a drink and we can happily debate until we fall over in a stupor.

There are definitately some major hurdles in reducing the level of harassment and intimidation in BRC. Whining on here makes little progress towards anything except in pissing off fellow burners enough to get flamed by many, and get supported and educated by a few.

I'll take you up on that drink and chat at BB next year! Shall I ask for CapSmashy?

I can already envision some of next year's gifts/volunteer work forming. I'm thinking some type of laminated card necklace with one's 4th-6th amendment rights printed on it. Plus what to say, how to stand up as witnesses for others, what steps to take if your/others rights are being violated, etc. It would also be awesome if a public education forum can be held. Maybe there already is one I am not aware of. I also just discovered and am going to look into volunteering for theLaw Officer Oversight Project (LOOP) next year.

It's after the fact, but I will follow-up with the on all the incidents I have witnessed. I'll post a list of resources here, too! Back to work for now...[/quote]

[vertigo900]

Repeat mantra
MARIJUANA GOOD, REPUBLICANS BAD

Your REPUBLICANS BAD mantra line needs to be modified to CORPORATE LOBBIESTS BAD if you want to chant factually.

Exactly. As I understand it, the fundamental problem with our democracy-based republic government is via our capitalism based economy and a few paramount US Supreme Court decisions, the voice of corporations has been allowed to be recognized and represented by elected and appointed government officals even though the corporation technically cannot directly "vote" most citizens can. In order for this to stop, I believe, true campaign finance reform needs to occur along with a complete code disclosure of election system including a paper proof, elimination of the archaic electorial college, etc. etc. The bottomline is money needs to be removed from politics and by closing all the loopholes. AND those politicians and corporatations need to be held financially and criminally accountable.

It has nothing to do with someone thinking they know what's best for you. Marijuana, and more importantly hemp, are still illegal to protect corporate profits, not because someone is claiming to be concerned about your safety.

Case in point, from my understanding, Dupont had a huge hand in the illegalization of hemp. During WW2, it was considered patrioted to grow hemp. It was used for rope, clothing, canvas, etc. used in the war effort. However, hemp was a dual competior to Dupont. It was the main competior to the cotton industry and a new product called Nylon. Since Dupont happens to manufacture Nylon and the majority of chemicals required to process cotton, their "voice" and political "vote" was recognized by the politicians they funded. A anti-hemp/marijuana legislation was drafted and along with anti-hemp/marijuana media campaigns that produced such films as Reefer Madness. It's sad because the plant itself has so many benefits and can replace chemical-dependent cotton fiber, pressed-wood i-beams, plywood, food, fuel, etc. Without even refering to the medical benefits some people experience, the hemp plant could solve a lot of problems in our world such as reducing the quantity of chemicals poisoning the soil, aquifers and rivers from cotton production, reduce erosion, nearly replace all pressed wood, reduce logging needs, reduce water consuption, etc.

But I'm sure I'm just preaching to the choir, here.

[theCryptofishist]

A note? From my understanding, it requires a prescription, just like any other medicine.

Apparently perscription cannot be used on a proscibed substance andthe workaround is a note.

[willyloafofphora]

Theres no such thing as a marijuana prescription. All that is required by law is a doctors written recommendation. A prescription would require the approval of the FDA whereas a doctors right to recommend something to a patient is protected by the constitution.

Medical marijauna should be recognized in Nevada because the people of Nevada voted for it but it has been denied by the government just like what happened in the District of Colombia.

I have a recommendation to use Cannabis for treatment of Cephalgia.

There is actually very little substantial evidence that shows marijuana to be harmful and huge piles of evidence that show the contrary. The ASA and NORMAL are right now suing the federal government for not abiding by a law passed by congress which forces government agencies to follow the most up to date scientific data which shows that Cannabis is a useful medicine. When marijuana was first criminalized the only scientist at the congressional hearing was the head of the American Medical Association who tried to explain that marijuana had been safe and useful part of the American pharmacopoeia for over 300 years. He was ignored due to fears , perpetuated by the Hearst owned media that marijuana caused black men to rape white women. My doctor is a third generation physician him his father and his grandfather have all treated patients with cannabis. His father served in WW2 and injured his back on a ship in the Pacific when he got back he wanted to treat his pain with cannabis but was told he now had to use opiates. I have yet to hear a real doctor talk about any serious risks posed by marijuana at least not any risks more severe than incarceration.

Under federal law I am technically a criminal but by ruling of the supreme court state,county,and city law enforcement are to abide by state law and therefor should leave me the fuck alone whether I'm in California or Nevada.

They are fascists and do claim that marijuana is illegal for safety issues thats how they sell their bullshit to all the mindless conservative zombies out there.

As for my mantra it is quite apt on the local level here in California. In San Diego especially, Republicans have continually caused problems for the medical marijuana movement whereas democrats have been much more helpful. Look at the dispensaries in LA and SF as examples. Those cities are generally run by democrats and they are actually following the new law. Places run by Republicans like SD county and Merced are fighting it tooth and claw but your right, on the federal level we should be chanting Marijuana Good, Corporate Lobbiests Bad. Democrats suck too but I'm still voting for Obama.

[unjonharley]

Fucking drugies bluring the line between weed and hemp.. This is what keeps hemp illegal..

[steveboy]

Theres no such thing as a marijuana prescription.

Medical marijauna should be recognized in Nevada because the people of Nevada voted for it but it has been denied by the government just like what happened in the District of Colombia.

Not really true. Marinol is a prescription drug and is a pharmacologically pure THC (marijuana active ingredient) approved by the FDA and used to treat severe pain (e.g., bone cancer patients). Not once have I ever heard this mentioned in any medical marijuana issue. The fact of its availability and its effectiveness makes the whole "get a note to smoke weed" issue a red herring.

[willyloafofphora]

Fucking druggies like George Washington who wrote letters to his friends extolling the practice of weeding out all male plants to avoid the development of seeds thus producing a better smoke. Your in my territory keep um coming its like skeet shooting.

[unjonharley]

Fucking druggies like George Washington who wrote letters to his friends extolling the practice of weeding out all male plants to avoid the development of seeds thus producing a better smoke. Your in my territory keep um coming its like skeet shooting.

Your post has nothing to do with mine.. Goe. and friends were fine tokers along with many more.. That is until 1950 when hemp was ban.. Befeore that we grew weed along side hemp and everyone looked the other way..

Now you fucking druggies are throwing shit in the game of bringing hemp (as a produce) back..

THis last weekend in Portland Or.

There was a very large signing up for hemp law.. BUT It was put on by legal weed smokers.. The local TV reported it as a "legalize weed rally".. The reporter was nose hiting while reporting

[willyloafofphora]

Marinol is no where near as effective at treating acute pain as real marijuana I know from personal experience and from conversation with cancer patients. Also a recent study has proven what every real pot head has known for years. That THC is only one chemical that makes up the therapeutic effects of pot. That CBNs, CBDs, and even flavniods all make serious contributions to the effect of the medicine. This mean that different strains/flavors of weed have different effects and that very little is now understood about how this works. All that is really known is that it does work. Also Marinol is about ten times more expensive per dose than weed bought on the street. However if weed is grown at home for medical use it costs pennies per dose.

[willyloafofphora]

Weed and Hemp are the same plant. Its like saying you can grow Gala apples and not Granny Smith. If some ones growing 100 acres of hemp how the hell are you going to stop them from growing one acre of the good shit somewhere in the middle of it all. Its all or nothing and it should be cannabis is safer than alcohol.

[unjonharley]

Home growen is getting dangerous.

Like I wont eat chicken cus it's power growen..

Growers of pot are using some mean stuff to power there crops..

[unjonharley]

Weed and Hemp are the same plant. Its like saying you can grow Gala apples and not Granny Smith. If some ones growing 100 acres of hemp how the hell are you going to stop them from growing one acre of the good shit somewhere in the middle of it all. Its all or nothing and it should be cannabis is safer than alcohol.

REad my post.. WE grew our good shit in the hemp.. We got busted for it with a law that swept the hemp industery out.. You post states why hemp can not be legalized

[steveboy]

Marinol is no where near as effective at treating acute pain as real marijuana I know from personal experience and from conversation with cancer patients. Also a recent study has proven what every real pot head has known for years. That THC is only one chemical that makes up the therapeutic effects of pot. That CBNs, CBDs, and even flavniods all make serious contributions to the effect of the medicine. This mean that different strains/flavors of weed have different effects and that very little is now understood about how this works. All that is really known is that it does work. Also Marinol is about ten times more expensive per dose than weed bought on the street. However if weed is grown at home for medical use it costs pennies per dose.

Anecdotes ain't data, and my anecdotal experience contradicts yours.

[This Woman]

Druggies never blurred the line between hemp and weed. See Vertigo's previous post on Dupont. Dupont and their ilk blurred the line, which is a common enough practice. Businesses told the sheep that hemp and weed were the same in order to do away with competitors, and the sheep ate it up like good little sheep do.

Alcohol is a drug far more dangerous than marijuana and most other recreational drugs, yet it is safely legal. Nobody wants to make that comparison because it is so obviously hypocritical that there is no way to argue the discrepancy with any rationality. So people revert to, "well it's illegal." Please. Alcohol was illegal too, until people overwhelmingly ignored the law. I'm just doing my part for future change in a more rational direction.

I will smoke weed until a doctor tells me my lungs can't handle it anymore. I enjoy it recreationally and use it medicinally without a doctor's approval or assistance, same as asprin. One thing that gets lost in the medicinal marijuana debate is all the minor ailments that marijuana is so good for like headaches, stomach aches and lack of appetite. So people with more serious problems like cancer get to use it with doctor's permission, but I with my toothache have to just suffer? No thanks.

But the marijuana debate aside, not all arrests out there are drug related, and it would behoove everyone to have a plan of action should they encounter LE. I can tell you from direct observation that knowing your rights is not enough.

I love Vertigo's ideas for next year. I have a similar plan that I didn't get done in time for this year regarding Miranda rights. Remember Miranda rights? People still rely on them, but they are all but meaningless because many years ago a judge decided that everyone in America had surely watched enough crime shows on tv to know they have the rights stated in Miranda (madness).

The problem is that yes, most Americans and even foreign visitors probably know about Miranda rights, but do they know they've been struck down? Do they know that it applies as much to innocent people as guilty? Psychologically, if you feel you are innocent, you are more likely to start talking because you want to explain why you are innocent. That is the worst possible thing you can do in many situations, though it is your instinctual response. Reminders such as Vertigos, and instant requests for assistance as advised by CapSmashy are great ways to arm against your own instincts. Requesting a ranger as some sort of mediator was certainly not an option for my friend. LE tsk tsk'd the rangers away before he even knew he was being detained.

[willyloafofphora]

[quote="unjonharley"][quote="willyloafofphora"]Weed and Hemp are the same plant. Its like saying you can grow Gala apples and not Granny Smith. If some ones growing 100 acres of hemp how the hell are you going to stop them from growing one acre of the good shit somewhere in the middle of it all. Its all or nothing and it should be cannabis is safer than alcohol.[/quote]

REad my post.. WE grew our good shit in the hemp.. We got busted for it with a law that swept the hemp industery out.. You post states why hemp can not be legalized[/quote]

Unjon, seriously now, weed is illegal because people with lots of money and power figured out that if they could make weed illegal they would get a lot more MONEY and POWER. It really has very little to do with those damn pot heads trying to hide their stash in the hemp fields. If you don't believe me please read Jack Herer's book The Emperor Wears No Clothes or maybe even Robert Anton Wilson's The Thing That Ate The Constitution. They explain everything in much greater detail than I will hear.

[gyre]

Some of the more responsible local media put on a series educating people on their rights and obligations regarding the police.
The police and local government made them knock it off.

Why?
Because it isn't about the law.
It is about power and abuse.

When the police actually start caring, so will I.
When they stop lying as policy and start doing those education programs themselves, they will earn respect.

[willyloafofphora]

[quote="steveboy"][quote="willyloafofphora"]Marinol is no where near as effective at treating acute pain as real marijuana I know from personal experience and from conversation with cancer patients. Also a recent study has proven what every real pot head has known for years. That THC is only one chemical that makes up the therapeutic effects of pot. That CBNs, CBDs, and even flavniods all make serious contributions to the effect of the medicine. This mean that different strains/flavors of weed have different effects and that very little is now understood about how this works. All that is really known is that it does work. Also Marinol is about ten times more expensive per dose than weed bought on the street. However if weed is grown at home for medical use it costs pennies per dose.[/quote]

Anecdotes ain't data, and my anecdotal experience contradicts yours.[/quote]

Steveboy do you work for a pharmaceutical company? Why the hell would any one pay good money for Marinol when they could grow weed in their backyard or on the patio of their apartment for next to nothing. Scientific data shows that different strains of weed produce different therapeudic effects and that a large part of that effect comes from CBDs and CBNs which are not in Marinol. Thats science not anecdote. If you don't want to take my word for it go to an Americans for Safe Access meeting and have some cancer patients set you straight.

[unjonharley]

The co's. you name were babes it the woods.. The big hammer was the newspaper giants the invested in wod pulp..

Our law makers (at that time) took the payoff and screwed the nation out of a good thing.

Nonn the less.. If you have on your person, ingest or put in the hands of others "illegal drug" You have made a informed choise..

If your busted for it.. Pony up and stop whining..

[willyloafofphora]

This Woman, thank you for being an intelligent an sensible person.

I think this thing is getting a little off topic if any one wants to continue arguing with me about drugs send me in invite to open discussion and I'll be happy to oblige but for now I actually have work to do and must abandon my computer. Its been fun.

[unjonharley]

To close the door behind willy, I'll say: If you get busted behind illegal drugs You have made an informed decision so stop your whining..

[gyre]

You can be sure you've been targeted out there whether you knew it or not.

Maybe they will ask you for drugs more often if you wear something more hep?
I got targeted as soon as I put on some of Fishy's outfits.
Maybe a zoot suit?

[CapSmashy]

I was just reminded of a story relayed to me last year by Bay Bridge Sue.

If I miss any details or mess it up, hopefully she (or someone else) will pass through here at some point and clarify it.

She volunteers with emergency services dispatch (among many other things) and after working her shift she was approached that evening by one of the leo's she had worked with earlier in the day. Obviously, he did not recognize her from the comm shack because he asked if she knew where he could score some coke.

She said sure and led him back to camp and handed him an ice cold coke from the cooler. From what I remember of the story, he was rather embarrassed by all of it when she called him out and he finally recognized who she was.


If you have the means, the quick wits and ability, this is a completely different tactic that could be taken to out and embarrass the undercovers. Someone wants to score some pot, hand them a pot. Some xtasy? Hand them a porno mag and hand towel. The play on words lends itself to much creativity.

[CapSmashy]

You can be sure you've been targeted out there whether you knew it or not.

I personally would looooooooove[/i the oppourtunity for such an interaction.

"Hey man, I need to score some pot for this awesome party we're throwing. Can you hook me up?"

"Sure man. Wait right here, I need to run back to camp and get it. How much you need, I got a bunch."

If he does wait, go fetch a uniformed officer and tell them some idiot is harassing you about buying drugs and you need help. If he says he wants to follow, lead him to a uniformed officer and report his ass.

It would be an interesting twist to see what happens and could be quite humorous. Especially if its a first year deputy undercover that gets jacked up by a first year uniformed BLM Ranger.


I also see this kind of tactic as an excellent CYA tactic. A stranger hits you up for illegal drugs and you immediately head for a uniformed officer to report it makes a push borderline entrapment scenario very unlikely.

[unjonharley]

I was just reminded of a story relayed to me last year by Bay Bridge Sue.

If I miss any details or mess it up, hopefully she (or someone else) will pass through here at some point and clarify it.

She volunteers with emergency services dispatch (among many other things) and after working her shift she was approached that evening by one of the leo's she had worked with earlier in the day. Obviously, he did not recognize her from the comm shack because he asked if she knew where he could score some coke.

She said sure and led him back to camp and handed him an ice cold coke from the cooler. From what I remember of the story, he was rather embarrassed by all of it when she called him out and he finally recognized who she was.


If you have the means, the quick wits and ability, this is a completely different tactic that could be taken to out and embarrass the undercovers. Someone wants to score some pot, hand them a pot. Some xtasy? Hand them a porno mag and hand towel. The play on words lends itself to much creativity.

I don't know, One would hav to be near brain dead to forget BBS. One hug a few yers ago I even this old brain can remeber..

[porterico]

the cop spotters...

follow em all... each and every one of em... from the LE depot... with sirens and flashy lights... lets just volunteer to tail em all... the whole event... tag em... so their presence is known at all times... biggest party goes on around every LE... ever hear of ahimsa? ... I'll give you a clue... Ghandi.

I'm guessing it would become the largest volunteer department at burningman... it would have to be... hehe...

This way the followers of the LE could just video their behaviour the entire time... I don't think that is illegal is it?

Maybe just take notes on everything...

Give the police a police escort at all times...

I'm such a god damn idealist... someone shoot me... just trying to get outside the box on this one... it aint easy... well at least that's what they always tell me.

porterico

[CapSmashy]

I don't know, One would hav to be near brain dead to forget BBS. One hug a few yers ago I even this old brain can remeber..

That was the part that really shocked her too. How anyone could forget those magnificently broad shoulders and rosey disposition is a mystery. What made it worse was that they had been in the same comm shack for part of the day earlier.

[CapSmashy]

the cop spotters...

follow em all... each and every one of em... from the LE depot... with sirens and flashy lights... lets just volunteer to tail em all... the whole event... tag em... so their presence is known at all times... biggest party goes on around every LE... ever hear of ahimsa? ... I'll give you a clue... Ghandi.

I'm guessing it would become the largest volunteer department at burningman... it would have to be... hehe...

This way the followers of the LE could just video their behaviour the entire time... I don't think that is illegal is it?

Maybe just take notes on everything...

Give the police a police escort at all times...

I'm such a god damn idealist... someone shoot me... just trying to get outside the box on this one... it aint easy... well at least that's what they always tell me.

porterico

100% legal PROVIDED you maintain a mature and non antagonistic demeanor the entire time you are in the prescence of the leo's you are escorting around.

Basic tools would need to include a camera (preferably at least 1 video per group) and reflective safety vests that read "COP WATCH" or something similar. You want to be very obvious as to exactly what you are doing.

You can not interfere directly with police activity while being a cop watcher. Your entire purpose would be to document document document with as much non-involvement as humanly possible. If a cop watch gets organized it will piss off a portion of the cops out there, namely the ones that it would be targeting that have something to worry about. Any excuse they can utilize to arrest you will be taken. If you are too close to the "incident" they can nail for obstruction. If they tell you to move back and you do not, they can get you for failing to obey directions form a peace officer, etc. There are lots of things they can arrest you for and even make stick because that tape in your camera can be used against you to show that you may have been interfering or disobeying lawful directions, etc.

The video camera is a very powerful icon and tool and the bad cops tend to fear it. With it, you can record the incidents as they unfold, record info from a witness such as what they saw and their contact information if it needed later for formal witness statements, etc.

[unjonharley]

Now!! Why in the hell would I/anyone want to ruin good playa time following a cop around..

I know the rules, I make my choice to follow them and the cop can do there own thing..

The tiny part of the BRC pop that have an issue with the police should just get there head on right.. Stop playing the law game.. Get a life