Why not the Iranian flag?

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:48 pm

I looked and I looked but never saw the flag of Iran under the Man. I did see the flag of Israel displayed proudly. Hmmm. At a historical juncture like this (i.e. potentially on the verge of yet another AIPAC-supported illegal war, if any of you keep up with foreign policy/lobbies and the Bush Admin) I really found it unbelievable that BMORG would leave the Iranian flag off the piece.

Did I just miss it somehow? <doubtful>

Iran has not attacked outside it's historical borders since 1747 (longer than there has been a USA) yet it has been invaded/occupied at least 12 times since then... not to mention the 1953 CIA-inspired coup that rid the world of the threat of a flourishing Iranian Democracy (!) under Mossadegh and imposed 25 years of brutal Pahlavi dictatorship and easy access to Iranian oil. No matter what Iran's current duchebag president says or how it is taken out of context and/or mistranslated (he did not say Israel should be "wiped off the map" or even infer it... but continue to believe US corporate news if you wish) he is not the commander-in-chief of the Iranian armed forces, nor does he set or influence foreign policy. That is the "job" of the "Leader" Ayatollah Khamenai... who has stated unequivocally on several occasions that Iran will never be the first to attack ANY other country. He also issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons, which have been deemed "haram" in Shi'a Islam. Bet you didn't hear about that either from our corporate "feel good" news sources. (?)

I'm not here to debate Iranian history or US foreign policy in the Middle East... this is what I do for a living, so it wouldn't be a fair or interesting dialogue... nor am I interested in schooling anybody with a monologue. I just want to know how/why the decision was made to leave the Iranian flag off the man, but to include the flag of a tiny rogue nation (Israel, est. 1948... accurately deemed an "ethnocracy" by Oren Yiftachel) that has been oppressing Palestinian people and occupying/appropriating their land--against UN resolutions and Generva Conventions-- for the past 41 years. ?!

And last I guarantee I have scores more Israeli friends/colleagues than 99% of the people on this board, many of whom I have travelled extensively throughout Israel/Palestine and the M.E., so spare me the inane "anti-semitic" obfuscation tool/label. It is only in the USA that people are afraid to discuss these issues. Ever read Haaretz or JPost?!?

Salam/Shalom

Mosin

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:22 pm

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that. It kinda bothered me as I expected it to be there alongside Israel. Radical Inclusion and all that. It wasn't MY art so I can't really judge too harshly.. I would have done it a lil different tho to make folks think a bit. Maybe the artist wanted folks to notice it gone and think about the future.. who knows.

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:29 pm

Isn' the Iranian flag the same as ours...except on fire?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:53 pm

Why not the Iranian flag?

That seems like something to ask Larry about.

Zona_the_stona · Post by **Zona_the_stona** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:12 pm

I didn't notice an American flag either.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:12 pm

Toolmaker wrote:Maybe the artist wanted folks to notice it gone and think about the future.. who knows.

Until I am informed otherwise, I love that interpretation and will assume that was the intent/message. Khayli mamnoon Agha! (Thanks man

)

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:29 pm

I'm not here to debate Iranian history or US foreign policy in the Middle East... this is what I do for a living, so it wouldn't be a fair or interesting dialogue...

Being so informed of the inner political machinations of Iran then I'm sure you can appreciate the absolute disgust and searing contempt that many hold towards a country that allows its government to hang young, underage boys caught having consensual sex with each other. Or, that has in the past celebrated New Years day by publicly stoning queer men to death.

Certainly a flag I wouldn't mind wiping my faggot ass with and then tossing on a fire.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:45 pm

Isotopia wrote: Being so informed of the inner political machinations of Iran then I'm sure you can appreciate the absolute disgust and searing contempt that many hold towards a country that allows its government to hang young, underage boys caught having consensual sex with each other. Or, that has in the past celebrated New Years day by publicly stoning queer men to death.

Certainly a flag I wouldn't mind wiping my faggot ass with and then tossing on a fire.

Sounds pretty American to me.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:40 pm

There is absolutely no excuse/rationalization/logic/humanity behind the Iranian government's policies towards gays and lesbians, "adulterers" or persons of the Baha'i faith. <period> Not to mention some political activists...

The Iranian government and the Iranian people are distinct... yet certainly there is a powerful, dark, and very well funded and armed minority that maintains vested interests in perpetuating hate, fear, militancy, a state of emergency, and the benefits of population control therein. In Iran, Israel, and the United States, to name just a few relevant examples, the battle rages on between (IMHO) those with morals and love and compassion and education, and those with hate/fear. SHirin Ebadi...Uri Avnery... Noam Chomsky to name a few of the former.

Did you know that the first meeting of the 21st century between Orthodox Rabbis, Sunni Imams, and Christian clergy in Jerusalem was motivated by their shared values of homophobia?! (the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem was clearly a far greater threat to humanity than Armageddon, which all three long for and pitch in to manifest). I'm sure the pinche Leader in Iran (one of the most unpopular persons in the country... imagine if Hagee had a permanent position which gave him veto power over our congress and president... that is the Iranian political system) would have been there too if his passport didn't explicitly state that he isn't allowed to "enter the occupied palestine". <badjoke>

Lots of education and work to do kids... on many fronts. BM and my bunny ears and fishnets and friends and paletas cart etc help me maintain my sanity and compassion and love and perspective as I grapple with such devastating discrepancies and contradictions daily in the pinche default world. I didn't intend to start a political flame war on ePlaya (eew! yuk)and am certainly no apologist for the Islamic Republic, so we can put this one to bed unless anyone has additional thoughts.

XO

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:27 am

Maybe they were afraid to put it up there. Maybe they thought some sensitive friend of Iran would report that Freak-Americans had burned their flag at a sick satanic orgy in the desert. Maybe they thought that might set off another round of killings--in much the way the Muhammed(PBUH) cartoons did.

Who knows? When one is dealing with the sensitivities of the peaceful and noble practitioners of Islam, one treads lightly--and one knows that, in most cases, whatever one does will be an affont to Islam.

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:44 am

The flag of Turkmenistan was also not present.As we flew a pair of them from our MV we looked long and hard to find it at The Man.We hear The Authorities in Ashgabat were not pleased at the news.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:40 am

Maybe they were afraid to put it up there.

And it might have been that it just never came up in a discussion when budgeting for buying the flags.

I certainly don't believe it was motivated by any anti-Iranian or anti-Islamic sentiment.

In fact, I remember having dinner with Larry last year and one of the things he was really jazzed about for the 2007 burn was the plan for one of the camps (forget which one) to have the morning call to prayer played on speakers and have it roll across the playa at sunrise.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:20 am

Lurker, I hear ya, but let's try not to generalize about ~1.5 billion people (Muslims....1/5+ the world) who practictice a religion far more dynamic/complex than Christianity in all its manifestations/forms. Iranian Kurdish Sufis get closer to their understanding of God by chanting rhythmically in harmony and whipping their long hair to and fro for hours. Metallica/Hetfield should take notes. Pakistani and Indian sufis (who consider themselves stock Muslims) sing high love songs to Hindu saints, lovers (homosexual and hetero), humanity....and allah as well. Ever heard of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan? (PBUH). Then there are the Macedonian rafa'i (the wailers) who engage in group flaggelation/piercing that would make the folks who took over the old Armory on Mission St. wince... and potentially give them some new material.

See the film "I am a Sufi, I am a Muslim" if you want a new, educated, complex, and beautiful perspective on several age-old Islamic traditions.. Feel good, corporate American news hurts more than it helps. We cannot generalize about Islam/Muslims no more than we can generalize about Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc etc. IMHO most if not all of these religious beliefs/systems are patriarchal-dogmatic batshit insanity/tinfoil hat lunacy, but I have met so many good people around the world who believe deeply in their respective versions of Islam, Xnity, Hinduism, Judaism etc that I know better than to try to put them into a box and/or affix labels. With that said, any time you wanna go on an anti-Wahhabi rant, be my guest.

Isotopia...Wow... a sweet Azan would have been tremendous. Gives me an idea for next year!

Tashakur! (Thanks!)

Mosin

PS Just FYI I am a serial atheist and antinationalist... an equal opportunity advocate/offender of all religion/s and nationalisms.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:10 am

Oh, Isotopia, I know. I was just responding in kind

Mosin, please don't tell me not to generalise--you insinuated 'pro-Israeli' motives on the part of the organizers, slandered Israel and pompouly 'refrained' from a diatribe all because you made a generalised assumption.

Now, I don't mind tha argument, but you've gotta know I have absolutely no sympathy towards the adherants of Islam at this time--if you poke around, you can find a post where I said that it would be better to kill every single Muslim on the planet, than let the 'tiny minority' of terrorist supporters(they usually say it's about 10%--that'd be 150,000,000 people) enslave everyone in the world.

People get all wonky when youi say things like that--when you say you'd rather see 1.5 billion dead to save the remaining 5 billion it sounds horrible--because it is.

So why am I saying this here, now?

Because I wouldn't blame the BMorg for taking into account the horrible fact that 1.5 billion Muslims do a piss poor job of restraining the 10% of sickos that wander freely among them, that hold positions of power among them, that are a knife at their collective throats.

One day, insha'Allah, they will.

But, until then, I feel free to generalise.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:33 am

To paraphrase Dr. Dre, if you wanna hate, be my guest. You can continue your sick line of thought/belief and advocate genocide here on your own. It would be good for you to keep in mind the fact "Christian" societiy/ies perpetrated the Holocaust, and that millenia of Islamic tolerance and respect of Christian and Jewish religious institutions enabled the dynamism and perpetuation of those religious traditions throughout Asia and Africa.

Hmmmm...where might someone like Lurker derive his hateful, myopic, pro-genocide, ahistorical, Israel-First advocacy?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4719421053

Love,

Mosin

PS http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0133582323

PPS Do not feed the trolls!!

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:04 pm

Mosin, I do not want anyone to die.

I spoke of a bitter, horrible calculation. But a logical one. And I know the extremity of it.

And I hope, wish and pray to all the gods that we never get to the point at which it is considered as a viable option.

I voice it only to make clear that my defense of the freedom of the people of the world to live their lives as they please, on their terms, is, if need be, just as extreme as the beliefs of those 150,000,000 people who want to fetter everyone with the chains of Islam.

And I'm not Christian--I think there are posts of mine out there that show an equal disgust for all the varieties of the cult of the One God--judaism, islam, and christianity equally. I decry all their 'sins'.

I do not hate. It's unproductive. Instead I speak. I warn.

Islam is the youngest child of the cult of the One God, like all children it lacks wisdom and understanding. It takes the tolerance and desire for peace that the West strangles itself with for weakness. And I think that's a mistake.

And so I warn--not us, but Muslims. I warn that they threaten to awaken a monster--the same monster that so easily slaughtered jews in the last century. A monster that CAN make that awful calculation.

And if it is made, many will die, but in the end we will be left, and we will heal from the awful scar this will place on our souls. But Mecca will be dust.

I don't want that.

It's easy to ignore what I say. To look at it with revulsion and claim that I desire genocide. It's harder to understand what I say, to understand that we are all in this together, that an ideology that seeks total world domination cannot be allowed to succeed. Christianity learned. Judaism learned. Now Islam must learn--and quickly, because the teaching process is far more destructive today than it ever was in the past.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:15 pm

I said I wasn't going to get into a flame war here or lecture anyone, but I'll repeat Tech's plea at the end of the video: "Read nigga, read nigga, read..."

Islam isn't the latest in the monotheistic line, the Baha'i faith is. Moreover, when you state "just as extreme as the beliefs of those 150,000,000 people who want to fetter everyone with the chains of Islam" you demonstrate a total lack of history, complexity, nuance, and contemporary reality in your understanding... offering what amount to stock Likudnik/Neocon talking points with a twisted "tough guy" slant....here on ePlaya no less. How benevolent of you to show your concern for Mecca and Muslims. Tough love?

Immortal Technique: "...Bitch-niggaz scared of the truth when it looks at you hard...."

READ!!!!

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:17 pm

Marscrumbs wrote:Isn' the Iranian flag the same as ours...except on fire?

Hahahahaha!!!

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:33 pm

HughMungus wrote:
Marscrumbs wrote:Isn' the Iranian flag the same as ours...except on fire?
Hahahahaha!!!

As my sig file beckons, come down with fire... lift my spirit higher! IMHO the playa should have an Eternal Flame fed by nation's flags...I'll supply the Iranian, Armenian (sorry Medzpapa and Medzmama), Turkish, Israeli, Palestinian, and American flags. Who's got Micronesia and Chad??

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:40 pm

Isn' the Iranian flag the same as ours...except on fire?

I believe it will be on fire sometime after the US elections this fall.

A dark cloud - a pall - sits on the horizon I think. Iran with its nuclear ambitions coupled with the loose and reckless tongue of its current president and its draconian lap dog mullahs will force Israel's hand. She'll take action against certain, specific facilities sometime within the next 4-6 months unless a political de-escalation starts to take place. One need not be a soothsayer to see that is damn near destined to happen.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:52 pm

I agree, unfortunately.

Speaking of Soothsayer... Lurker please give a listen. In a moment of ecsatic joy at HSMF this summer--brought on by a dude wearing a KFC bucket on his head and a mask--we proclaimed the alternative title to this song to be "A Song To End All Hate". It is Extra Strength just 4 u....give it a shot... esp. ~4:00 on...

Damn that works well. I love you all! Death to Iran! (Marg bar Iran!) Long Live Iran! (Iran Zende bad!). Death to America! (Marg bar Amrika!) Long live....

Groovezilla! · Post by **Groovezilla!** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:06 pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23839858@N ... 8/sizes/o/

it was there next to the iraq flag...

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:11 pm

Too blurry for me to make out but I trust you. Thanks! Mard-e Atash zende bad! (Long Live the Burning Man!).

Salam/Shalom

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:20 pm

Funny how your line stopped just short of the America in 'Long live America'. Got the 'death to' in just fine.

Is that slip Freudian or Victoria's secret?

And Baha'i is an Islamic offshoot. If it comes into it's own, we'll talk.

You think I'm pulling a 'tough guy' line?

See that little gem you agreed with about Israel not letting Iran have nukes?

What happens if they do it?

What happens if they don't? The US is blocking Israel right now--refusing them an air corridor.

What happens if the US succeeds and Israel doesn't take out the Iraninan weapons facility? Do you really think that the lunatics that oppress the Persian people will waste a second in using a nuke against Israel?

What happens then, Mosin?

Don't you understand how the people who control the buttons think? They will make that horrible calculation--because they think in terms like 'acceptable losses'.

I think you're focusing on the wrong part of what I'm saying.

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:28 pm

Come down with fire - Lift my spirit higher -Someone's screaming my name - Come and make me holy again....

Wow it's been a while since I've heard that one. Go Dio (er Rainbow).

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:57 pm

Groovezilla! wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/23839858@N ... 8/sizes/o/

it was there next to the iraq flag...

Can't really see it in the pic. I was playing identify the flag for awhile. I didn't do so well and only got about 10 or 12 flags ID'd. There wasn't enough room to place ALL the flags of the world so some folks HAD to be left out.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:15 pm

Sorry Lurker but you're now killfiltered. No time for your inane, hateful, neocon trolling...you think I haven't heard your nonsensical, ahistorical "arguments" before?! Go fly your flag and fuck off tough guy. I've said my thing clearly and I'm out.

Thanks to all who responded sanely and with some thought.

Mosin

PS BitterDan, this one's for you...

(...andasmalleroneforKG!! Go! Gooo!!!!! Dioooooo")

PPS I just gotta add, ask the persecuted Bahai's/Babis if they consider themselves "Muslims" or ask Muslims if they consider Bahai's to be Muslims. The answer is an unequivocal NO. Hence the often brutal treatment and discrimintion imposed on these generally loving, gender egalitarian, ANTI-CLERICAL, apolitical peoples. You are all about simplistic talking points (AKA propaganda/obfuscatory bullshit) Lurker, but nice try...

PPPS What "weapons facility" you fuck? Clearly all you read is NCRI/Mossad talking points... there is not a SHRED of evidence that Iran has, or wants a nuclear WEAPONS program. Like I said, analyzing this info, including US GOVERNMENT ANALYSIS (read the latest Intel Estimate?) is what I do for a living. Hence... why I am not going to turn ePlaya into another class. Take one if you want to educate yourself, apeman.

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:41 pm

Mosin wrote:I looked and I looked but never saw the flag of Iran under the Man. I did see the flag of Israel displayed proudly. Hmmm. At a historical juncture like this (i.e. potentially on the verge of yet another AIPAC-supported illegal war, if any of you keep up with foreign policy/lobbies and the Bush Admin) I really found it unbelievable that BMORG would leave the Iranian flag off the piece. :?: Did I just miss it somehow? <doubtful>

I think you're wrong. I was on an art tour in which Lady B was giving information and the only flag NOT on the man's podium was the American Flag.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:46 pm

MoisturePup wrote: I think you're wrong. I was on an art tour in which Lady B was giving information and the only flag NOT on the man's podium was the American Flag.

Thanks MP... Groovezilla pointed this out above and it sufficed for me. Not sure how I missed it after circumambulating it 7 times (nyuk nyuk) but I AM only bunny/human. Again, thanks!

Oh, and ....Long Live America and the American Dream!!!!!!!! (mine, of course

)

LisaLuckyOne · Post by **LisaLuckyOne** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:50 pm

Honestly, I think you're all behaving quite beastly and that you should be ashamed of yourselves.

The real issue here should be this skank's tramp stamp. I mean, WTF is up with that? It reminds me of a bug on the grill of my Escalade. Every time I see this 'artist's rendering' I want to put my size 7 paisley pink Doc Martins up her bony ass knowing that the waffle-stomper pattern left behind would be infinitely superior to the lame and insulting 'butterfly' she's inflicting on the world.

Of course she'd have to drop her pants so everyone could see it, but I don't think that would present a problem for a wanton exhibitionist such as herself.

Why not the Iranian flag?

Why not the Iranian flag?

Re: Why not the Iranian flag?

Re: Why not the Iranian flag?