Forget 9/11

[MoisturePup]

Forget the events of 9/11. Let it go. Those who committed the crimes of that day win when you think about that day as anything other than an anomaly. Let it go. Those who would exploit your fears win too when you don't let it go. So just let it go. The terrorists can't win if you have refused to be terrorized.

...

what was I talking about?

[Badger]

Moist, sometimes you're just not fucking funny.

Choking us with silly, insipid new threads over here because Tribe's not available for you to do it over there is really bogus.

Start a thread if you have something to say but please don't do it because you feel like wiping your ass online with your stupid shit.

Please give us a break.

Seriously.

[MoisturePup]

Moist, sometimes you're just not fucking funny.

Choking us with silly, insipid new threads over here because Tribe's not available for you to do it over there is really bogus.

Start a thread if you have something to say but please don't do it because you feel like wiping your ass online with your stupid shit.

Please give us a break.

Seriously.

Badger, plonk me already, I really wish you would.

And not to engage you, because I think you're the worst offender of all when it comes to hostile troll like behavior, but why did you think I was being funny? I was serious.

[cowboyangel]

forget and re-live

[thirt33n]

i understood what you were gettin' at. didn't seem like an attempt at humor to me......

[chiefdanfox]

MP,
Your post didn't seem like an attempt at humor to me either. But it isn't clear to me that we as humans can avoid being terrorized. Terror tactics are real, and the people who perpetrate them are usually very desperate and have no other recourse. It takes a lot of guts to fly the plane you are piloting into a building or a ship. No small measure of courage. I think those who actually engage in suicide terror tactics are some of the most courageous of people. They are very willing to die for a cause.

I guess that is my real problem with OBL. He had the cash to buy legislation. He chose to become a revolutionary, and perpetrate a clandestine war against a civilian population. His first shots were at civilians. He acted like a slave master, and hit the easy targets. He has been acting out his own little "SLA" bullshit. A rich kid, with far too much money to burn, and enough knowledge of fanatical theology to snow the ignorant into following.

I wish Mr. Bush had really hunted him down, and then personally stuck OBL's head on a piece of rebar at ground zero. What we got was two crimes of opportunity by two knuckleheads that fancied themselves something more than the trust-fund fuckos they are. And both sides made such a big deal out of them. My idea of heaven is roasting in hell, watching those two asshats roil in the flames. Bring it on.

[cowboyangel]

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Choking us with silly, insipid new threads over here because Tribe's not available for you to do it over there is really bogus.

Start a thread if you have something to say but please don't do it because you feel like wiping your ass online with your stupid shit.

No silly, insipid threads here. That's fur sure

[MoisturePup]

MP,
Your post didn't seem like an attempt at humor to me either. But it isn't clear to me that we as humans can avoid being terrorized. Terror tactics are real, and the people who perpetrate them are usually very desperate and have no other recourse. It takes a lot of guts to fly the plane you are piloting into a building or a ship. No small measure of courage. I think those who actually engage in suicide terror tactics are some of the most courageous of people. They are very willing to die for a cause.

I guess that is my real problem with OBL. He had the cash to buy legislation. He chose to become a revolutionary, and perpetrate a clandestine war against a civilian population. His first shots were at civilians. He acted like a slave master, and hit the easy targets. He has been acting out his own little "SLA" bullshit. A rich kid, with far too much money to burn, and enough knowledge of fanatical theology to snow the ignorant into following.

I wish Mr. Bush had really hunted him down, and then personally stuck OBL's head on a piece of rebar at ground zero. What we got was two crimes of opportunity by two knuckleheads that fancied themselves something more than the trust-fund fuckos they are. And both sides made such a big deal out of them. My idea of heaven is roasting in hell, watching those two asshats roil in the flames. Bring it on.

OBL did what he had to against a far superior enemy. 18 people caused our entire nation to go into absolute panic mode. 18 people humiliated us. 7 years later and we're still humiliated, still panicking, and still terrified. The man who directed those 18 people won that battle, unequivocally. (He lost his war though in Afghanistan by underestimating our ability to hold the country.)

Asymmetrical warfare is a valid methodology for fighting a far superior enemy. And it's not just religious extremist working to create asymmetrical warfare against the United States. China has been working hard to develop a system of warfare that could rival us without costing them as much as ours cost us. If we were to ever open fire on China they would begin their attacks by dumping our currency, destroying our satellites, and crippling our army's ability to communicate before we could fire our second shot.

Does it feel less brave? Yes. Can it cripple us though? 18 men crippled us, wait until 1 billion are all working to do the same thing. Cowardly, but effective. As a leader when faced with the choice of brave but ineffective, or cowardly and effective, which would you choose?

In the case of OBL he hoped to draw the US into Afghanistan under the (mistaken) belief that we could not control it and our military would be crushed. "After all," the Taliban and OBL thought, "if the Soviet Union couldn't control us how can the Americans with longer and more fragile supply lines?" OBL was wrong and he has lost control of Afghanistan, but not without huge costs to the American economy, and our military readiness. The Soviet Union and China are now looking at our outposts and allies across Asia, Europe, and recently South America knowing that we are stretched too thin to defend them or uphold US policy.

I sometimes fantasize that in the week following 9/11 as things became clear who the hijackers were that Bush had carpet bombed Afghanistan with nukes and issued a real doctrine of terror to the world "Any attack on American soil will result in genocide for the attackers, and the people who support or help them." Who knows what the world's response would have been though. I somewhat doubt there would have been much of a real and substantial response. All nuclear powers face the threat of enemies wanting to wage asymmetrical wars. I'm sure secretly they would have welcomed the precedent of annihilation while publicly condemning it.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

I sometimes fantasize that in the week following 9/11 as things became clear who the hijackers were that Bush had carpet bombed Afghanistan with nukes and issued a real doctrine of terror to the world "Any attack on American soil will result in genocide for the attackers, and the people who support or help them."

In the back of my mind I keep wondering,


What would Saddam have done?

[ZaphodBurner]

"RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia's top judiciary official has issued a religious decree saying it is permissible to kill the owners of satellite TV networks that broadcast immoral content.

The 79-year-old Sheik Saleh al-Lihedan said Thursday that satellite channels cause the "deviance of thousands of people.""

[Ugly Dougly]

How have we paid? OBL's act certainly didn't get him an Islamic empire spanning the world. He's hiding in a cave for fuck's sake; all of the Muslims I know despise him.
We have paid, however, by having our liberties suspended. Do you not remember how it was before?
Those who have new bureaucratic offices in Washington are not interested in helping us forgive and forget; they'd be out of a job.

[HughMungus]

Forget the events of 9/11. Let it go. Those who committed the crimes of that day win when you think about that day as anything other than an anomaly. Let it go. Those who would exploit your fears win too when you don't let it go. So just let it go. The terrorists can't win if you have refused to be terrorized.

...

what was I talking about?

I agree. Didn't Bush say "Get on with your lives"?

[Toolmaker]

I dont think I'll ever forget the loss of one of my dearest friends who worked there.

[MoisturePup]

I dont think I'll ever forget the loss of one of my dearest friends who worked there.

Of course not.

[cowboyangel]

MP,
Your post didn't seem like an attempt at humor to me either. But it isn't clear to me that we as humans can avoid being terrorized. Terror tactics are real, and the people who perpetrate them are usually very desperate and have no other recourse. It takes a lot of guts to fly the plane you are piloting into a building or a ship. No small measure of courage. I think those who actually engage in suicide terror tactics are some of the most courageous of people. They are very willing to die for a cause.

I guess that is my real problem with OBL. He had the cash to buy legislation. He chose to become a revolutionary, and perpetrate a clandestine war against a civilian population. His first shots were at civilians. He acted like a slave master, and hit the easy targets. He has been acting out his own little "SLA" bullshit. A rich kid, with far too much money to burn, and enough knowledge of fanatical theology to snow the ignorant into following.

I wish Mr. Bush had really hunted him down, and then personally stuck OBL's head on a piece of rebar at ground zero. What we got was two crimes of opportunity by two knuckleheads that fancied themselves something more than the trust-fund fuckos they are. And both sides made such a big deal out of them. My idea of heaven is roasting in hell, watching those two asshats roil in the flames. Bring it on.

OBL did what he had to against a far superior enemy. 18 people caused our entire nation to go into absolute panic mode. 18 people humiliated us. 7 years later and we're still humiliated, still panicking, and still terrified. The man who directed those 18 people won that battle, unequivocally. (He lost his war though in Afghanistan by underestimating our ability to hold the country.)

Asymmetrical warfare is a valid methodology for fighting a far superior enemy. And it's not just religious extremist working to create asymmetrical warfare against the United States. China has been working hard to develop a system of warfare that could rival us without costing them as much as ours cost us. If we were to ever open fire on China they would begin their attacks by dumping our currency, destroying our satellites, and crippling our army's ability to communicate before we could fire our second shot.

Does it feel less brave? Yes. Can it cripple us though? 18 men crippled us, wait until 1 billion are all working to do the same thing. Cowardly, but effective. As a leader when faced with the choice of brave but ineffective, or cowardly and effective, which would you choose?

In the case of OBL he hoped to draw the US into Afghanistan under the (mistaken) belief that we could not control it and our military would be crushed. "After all," the Taliban and OBL thought, "if the Soviet Union couldn't control us how can the Americans with longer and more fragile supply lines?" OBL was wrong and he has lost control of Afghanistan, but not without huge costs to the American economy, and our military readiness. The Soviet Union and China are now looking at our outposts and allies across Asia, Europe, and recently South America knowing that we are stretched too thin to defend them or uphold US policy.

I sometimes fantasize that in the week following 9/11 as things became clear who the hijackers were that Bush had carpet bombed Afghanistan with nukes and issued a real doctrine of terror to the world "Any attack on American soil will result in genocide for the attackers, and the people who support or help them." Who knows what the world's response would have been though. I somewhat doubt there would have been much of a real and substantial response. All nuclear powers face the threat of enemies wanting to wage asymmetrical wars. I'm sure secretly they would have welcomed the precedent of annihilation while publicly condemning it.

I still find it incredible that after the mountain of Bush lies, someone could still believe in the 18 guys story...... yeah.....

[ZaphodBurner]

I still find it incredible that after the mountain of Bush lies, someone could still believe in the 18 guys story...... yeah.....

Logic flaw. Just because the president of a nation lies doesn't mean the nation doesn't have enemies.

There was probably some analog in Iraq somewhere who said "I still find it incredible that after the mountain of Hussein lies, someone could still believe the US-is-bombing-the-holy-fuck-out-Baghdad story."

Especially considering that the entire invasion of Iraq was just an elaborate hologram.

-c

[mdmf007]

its obvious that there were more than 18 terrorists - We invaded Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, where the majority of the terrorists came from.

I agree - had I been president there would have been mushroom clouds over whoever was responsible, but who is that? they are spread all over the middle east spread amongst an ignorant and uneducated civillian population. Makes it hard to jstify incinerating 100.000 to get 4 people. at a time.

So tough talking rhetoric aside, I believe the next step is to cull them (terrorists) out of wherever they are, forecibly incarcerate or execute them and be done with it. But all that does is create more terrorists to take their place when their kids and family see the brutality of the USA. Its a self fulfilling prophecy and they dont see it.

The terrorist has a contempt for America becasue he was told too by someone smarter and believes it. From there they protest and throw rocks at the US. Then this kid throws a grenade he is given at a Humvee - hes either arrested or cut in half by 50 cal fire by a staff sergeant from Montana while a meedic treats the driver who just take a grenades worth of shrapnel to the leg.

The terrorists friends see this whole scene and vow vengance on the US and around it goes again.

Occupying Iraq is not making us any friends. Sure some poeple are way better off, and they may even have a government that works (sort of)

My plan - Theres too options 1. Stay ans stabilize it as best as we can, and withdraw. Or 2. Anhiliate the losing side so there is no one to conflict with. They have been fighting sectarian wars for Millenia, and will be back at it 15 minutes after we leave, why would it be any different?

fuck who knows - I do know that it takes me 90 minutes to get through security, my mortgage loan papers are 12 pages thicker, big brother is listening to me on my cell phone, and reading this post and 1984 is slowly becoming reality.

End Rant
###

[littleflower]

I still find it incredible that after the mountain of Bush lies, someone could still believe in the 18 guys story...... yeah.....

how many guys do you think, then? how many to wire the towers, shoot the missiles off, coordinate the deception, buy off the 9/11 commission, &c ... ?

who are they?

[MoisturePup]

I still find it incredible that after the mountain of Bush lies, someone could still believe in the 18 guys story...... yeah.....

how many guys do you think, then? how many to wire the towers, shoot the missiles off, coordinate the deception, buy off the 9/11 commission, &c ... ?

who are they?

What the conspiracy theorists don't know is that they were the only ones not let in on the conspiracy. The rest of us helped. The night before it happened I received phone call that I should pretend to be horrified and that was my role. All the New Yorkers knew about it too. The people inside the building were willing participants (many were Republicans after all!)

It's been the best kept secret ever. This was the NEW Manhattan Project.

[Toolmaker]

The people inside the building were willing participants (many were Republicans after all!)

My friends were not willing participants and they were Democrat and Green affiliated not Republican.

[cowboyangel]

I still find it incredible that after the mountain of Bush lies, someone could still believe in the 18 guys story...... yeah.....

how many guys do you think, then? how many to wire the towers, shoot the missiles off, coordinate the deception, buy off the 9/11 commission, &c ... ?

who are they?

What the conspiracy theorists don't know is that they were the only ones not let in on the conspiracy. The rest of us helped. The night before it happened I received phone call that I should pretend to be horrified and that was my role. All the New Yorkers knew about it too. The people inside the building were willing participants (many were Republicans after all!)

It's been the best kept secret ever. This was the NEW Manhattan Project.

MP, I think ya been sucking up way too much nitrous lately. Do us a favor and google, Kevin Ryan, oh shit, I'll do your leg work for you ya nimrod,
http://www.911blogger.com/node/16945


check out what first reponder Craig Bartmer has to say too:
http://www.911blogger.com/blog/2779


now, MP, drink a big glass of water, and take a red pill, it ain't hard...just to it for humanity's sake...

[littleflower]

in other words,

2 + 5 = 234,506,699 (approx)

you didn't answer my question, either. how many people would it take to pull this off? the entire bush administration, the air force, the 9/11 commission, all those people who wired the buildings, most of congress, all those cops Bartmer speaks of who want to know why he's speaking out, all those scientists listed in popular mechanics, the entire mainstream media ...

and how do you know any new investigation wouldn't be bought off, as well?

[cowboyangel]

google willam pepper and the ny ballot initiate on a new investigation.

The investigation wasn't "bought off" it was sabotaged. An independent investigation will be different. The original 911 investigation would not have even happened had it not been for the public demonstration and outcries from some of the victims' families.

[DragginLady]

anybody remember Pearl Harbor The Day That Will Live In Infamy?

Sept. 11 should not be forgotten, but why do we continue to make so much of it? Could an election year be part of that?

I wish we could move on and put it in the bigger picture that it is part of.

[littleflower]

i agree, dragginlady ... but there are still people who are unconvinced that roosevelt wasn't involved in pearl harbor, and this one won't go away, either. who knows, it's a free country, perhaps we should be more worried if it *did* go away.

my problem is that it rather sounds to me like a witch hunt... a few people claiming that thousands are lying... creating compelling evidence from a coincidence and/or unprovable theory ... dismissing every challenge to their ideas as collusion with the bush admin...