Oh the questions!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:13 pm

Dang, Mojo, I never guessed. Not that it's important to our friendship, I hope. Mutual respect is a good thing.

doppelGanger · Post by **doppelGanger** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:39 pm

***EMAIL SHE SENT ME AFTER LOOKING INTO BURNING MAN*** (forgive the akward question marks (?), I have no idea how they got there, and I am not going to edit them!)

Below, in green, I have pasted excerpts from various websites that came up when I searched for ?Burning Man and Christianity.?? Highlighted passages are of particular concern to me.?

Some of this year's sanctioned theme camps and events included:? (in their own words)?

Golden Globes: If your boobs seem much like others, let the Gold Mammys transform them into golden globes of beauty. You'll look in the mirror and say "I can't believe my tits!"? Artist will use real immitation gold, silver and copper leaf to set you apart from others.?

Sundial On The Playa Noon Sun Worship: Give thanks and bless the sun. Drumming, chanting, dancing. Honor the 4 directions. Bring drums, musical instruments, Sun God and Goddess costumes.?

Oil Night: Bring some oil and a towel and a partner and get slippery! The Station is a camera-free zone. All sexual orientations are welcome. Safe sex supplies provided. Immature attitudes handled maturely. The Fornication Station.?

Prometheus's Revenge: A new art form, contact fire, encompasses a collaboration of live music and theatre, tells a story of how humans became gods and gods became human.?

Temple of Atonement University: Extreme S&M: This is NOT about learning how to spank someone. This class is offered to those serious about developing their interest in sadomasochism (per dictionary.com: ?interaction, esp. sexual activity, in which one person enjoys inflicting physical or mental suffering on another person, who derives pleasure from experiencing pain?) beyond the beginner level. Seating is limited so arrive on time or be used as an example.?

Goddess Ritual: The Mythic Power of the Dragon: This is a powerful ritual journey of the soul towards wholeness, impassioned commitment to life, and the celebration of erotic joy. Led by the Temple High Priestess and the skilled Temple Community of sacred dancers, performers, and priest/esses. Temple of Ishtar.?
?
?
The Burning Man

Added: Feb 3rd, 2000 2:46 AM

For the past ten years people have migrated from Canada, Brazil, Germany, Russia, and 25 other countries, to an isolated corner of Black Rock Desert in Nevada, where a four-day-long New Age techno-fest known as "The Burning Man" has been conducted.?
?
Recent attendance at The Burning Man surpassed 15,000 wiccans, satanists, goddesses (white witches), nudists, and a consortium of other lost party-goers, who converged on the hot Nevada desert for a Labor Day weekend of "glorious Hell on earth."?
?
The number of participants at the Burning Man gala has nearly doubled each year since 1986, and this year organizers hope to break an attendance of 30,000.?
?
Starting on Saturday, March 25th, planning meetings and volunteer recruitment for Burning Man 2000 will be held in San Francisco. This year's Burning Man theme is The Body and will include a solar plexus of a gigantic horizontal figure, drawn on the playa. A laser outline of The Body will hover thirty feet overhead.?
?
The Burning Man is a no-holds-barred "Woodstock" style festival, where neo-pagans, wiccans, transvestitie entertainers, and back-slidden Christians go to trance, perform rituals, burn sacrifices to pagan gods and goddesses, dance in the nude, engage in sex, and otherwise "express" themselves and become one with Gaia.?
?
Attendees set up theme camps such as "Lost Vegas," "Motel 666," and "Crucifixion With a Celebrity" (where one can purchase a picture of a crucified obese Elvis). Hamburgers are sold by devil-worshippers at the McSatan cafe, and T-shirts are available that proudly proclaim, "Praise The Whore."?
?
The Burning Man itself is a 40-foot-high effigy of the "Spirit Cave Man" (sacred to local Indians and New Agers) which is torched, together with just about everything else, at the close of the festivities.?
?
George Otis Jr., president of The Sentinel Group (a Christian research agency), attended the Burning Man festival with a colleague. He wrote of the experience:

On Saturday night, the hell-themed [festival] reached its crescendo in the form of a drama....These people were literally celebrating the fact that one day they would enter hell. To simulate their journey, the camp?s center stage was transformed into the "Vestibule of Hell." The guest of honor was none other than "Papa Satan."....As the lecherous Papa Satan bowed in mock chains before a placard reading "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," a group called "Idiot Flesh," [supposedly Christians] dressed as hooded executioners, began to play a discordant dirge accompanied by flashing strobes. When the crowd started its torchlight procession toward the Gates of Hell and an eerie, sculpted castle called The City of Dis, I sensed an unmistakable chill in the air. Our march had been joined by unseen, malevolent guests....nudist and a moving sea of devil banners [also] moved around us....At the tri-tower City of Dis, our descent into the Inferno reached a demonic sanctuary....While massive loudspeakers pumped out a hellish bass tone accompanied by tormented screams....people dressed as demonic insects celebrated by copulating with other captured souls. It was a scene that looked as if it had been plucked from a horrific nightmare. Mesmerized by the evocative music, the performers began to chant, "Devil?s delight, fire tonight!" Wood piles inside the towers of Dis were ignited, causing orange flames to belch forth from the eyes and mouths of demonic gargoyles built onto the turrets. As the heat became more intense, the entourage danced around the towers. Satan had defeated the church.?
***END EMAIL*** IMHO: It pisses me off that she can take the internet's word over mine.

I edited out the personal things, her feelings and so on, so this is what she has decided Burning Man is. I have tried to reason with her, even asking her for only ONE trip to BM! (to answer your question littleflower, and HughMungus) I would go to church every morning at 4:00 if it meant I could go, but after thinking about it, if that's what it takes for her to allow it... you all know what I am getting at...

[QUOTE]Just dont jump in front of a mutant vehicle. They only swerve for the cows. [/QUOTE]
I already have my cow suit packed. :wink:

Ugly Dougly: I agree with you 100%, hell I agree with all of you 100%, except for you ygmir [QUOTE]now, what's wrong with that?
(he asks after the best 30 seconds of her life).......... [/QUOTE] She'd slap you if it only lasted 30 seconds. :wink:

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:48 pm

well,
thanks for the mention.......hahahahaahahahaa

I love when sarcasm is taken seriously......hahaha giggle...........

I think you're on the right track, though........

doppelGanger · Post by **doppelGanger** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:53 pm

[quote="ygmir"]well,
thanks for the mention.......hahahahaahahahaa

I love when sarcasm is taken seriously......hahaha giggle...........

I think you're on the right track, though........[/quote]

No worries I know your joking :)

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:53 pm

doppelGanger wrote: IMHO: It pisses me off that she can take the internet's word over mine.

me too... that says it all...

i'm sorry, DG. i hope you find someone who is better for you ... and i'm sure you will. take care and have some fun, OK?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:51 pm

doppelGanger wrote:
ygmir wrote:well,
thanks for the mention.......hahahahaahahahaa

I love when sarcasm is taken seriously......hahaha giggle...........

I think you're on the right track, though........
No worries I know your joking

You should tell her about the Baby Taxidermy Station
What was their slogan?
Preserve them while they're cute?

I actually do know some christians that aren't buddhists.
Next year instead of burning man, I'm going to church camp to learn how to be more judgmental.

A friend of mine was concerned about any pagan imagery, oddly enough.
Now he's just afraid he'll like it too much.

(If you enable the bbcode etc on your profile the features will work.
Test in preview.)
I suggest enabling email too.

doppelGanger · Post by **doppelGanger** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:02 pm

Ah ha, after I posted that last one I thought to myself, "why the hell aren't my smilies working", and did exactly what you said. Anyway, the baby taxidermy station sounds humorous to say the least! I am sure she would freak out a little more if she could - I think she has reached her peak though, on the good side she left town for the night which means I get to sleep on the bed instead of the damn couch.

I must say, I am appreciating what Burning Man has already done for me, and I haven't even been there yet.

LeChatNoir · Post by **LeChatNoir** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:22 pm

fciron wrote:The biggest negative that I can see is that it is almost a year until the gate opens.

I'm really glad you made it to the burn this year, fc. It's been a real joy to get to know you on a "burning" level, both before and after. I look forward to more good times ahead.

And doppelGanger...

I try my best to not impose my point of view on others. but you seem to be seeking advice so I have to say... um...

I'm really glad you said "finace" and not "wife". Let's just say that I've been in similar sorts of situations. And I went through a really horrible divorce many moons ago, but through it learned that I do not have to be treated any way I don't want to be treated.

I now have a wonderful person in my life. She and I compliment each other and neither one owns the other. We are together because we want to be.

Good luck and I hope 2009 is a good year for you. And I hope that its good for your (ex?) fiance as well. May you each grow in your own ways. Harm non and all that...

See you in the dust.

Brain · Post by **Brain** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:55 am

doppelGanger wrote:***END EMAIL*** IMHO: It pisses me off that she can take the internet's word over mine.

Seems to me that she's taking her version of what the internet says over your version of what the internet says.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:02 am

Isn't there a link around here for 'downloading the internet'?

Grazelda · Post by **Grazelda** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:02 am

littleflower wrote:how would the vets know who the virgins are anyhow? are we required to wear white clothing or something?

i believe we are required to wear hymen hats...

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:47 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Dang, Mojo, I never guessed. Not that it's important to our friendship, I hope. Mutual respect is a good thing.

I'm about as bleeding heart liberal as they get. I'm not your typical Bible thumper....(nor do I believe it is the literal word of God). I don't believe in a "hell", - lots and lots of things that would make the fundamentalists foam at the mouth.

I'd rather play with a flamethrower than stand in a circle and sing Kum By Ya.

I think our friendship is golden because I so much admire and respect your heart, your quick wit, and your knowledge. After all, we've been reading each others thoughts on this board for years now.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 pm

doppelGanger wrote:*
The Burning Man itself is a 40-foot-high effigy of the "Spirit Cave Man"

HAAAHAHAAA!!! "Spirit cave man." Heeeee!!*wheeze* You found
"the article." Does she also believe that God caused 9/11 to punish tolerance of homosexuals?

Here's something you could show her. As a true Christian she might consider accepting her place as the subservient member of the household and learn to obey you, right? Example:

http://www.damnnearwiley.com/LoudMouthWomen.jpg Middle of the right column. Ask her: Why does she -heart- the devil?

If there's some specific commandment that you intend to break on the playa you might discuss this in advance. Otherwise, she has been duped by fearmongering propagandists and liars. There are plenty of Christians on the playa and abundant tolerance of tolerant Christians by others. If Jesus returns to earth you're much more likely to find him pondering art or talking with people openly about their beliefs and ideas, and loving them regardless, than you are at a God Hates Fags rally.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:44 pm

That's some outdated happenin's she found. HellCo and McSatan were years before my time out there.

But you can find whatever pleases you if you look hard enough. Or bring it yourself.

My favorite bar is the Golden Cafe. They have a very nice golden calf.

doppelGanger · Post by **doppelGanger** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:03 pm

Brain wrote:
doppelGanger wrote:***END EMAIL*** IMHO: It pisses me off that she can take the internet's word over mine.
Seems to me that she's taking her version of what the internet says over your version of what the internet says.

Funny you would assume my only information has come from the internet. I feel that I have researched BM incredibly thoroughly, through multiple mediums, including real people standing in front of me (as a matter of fact I have had very lengthy conversations with multiple burners ). I also think I have a good enough grasp on what it is to make a life changing decision about it. But nice try Brian, I commend you. Have a cookie, or even better: TWO cookies.

AntiM, ZaphodBurner:
I wish she could look at it that way and understand that the camps she looked at are at most 10 out of the hundreds of camps; and that very ability to choose and do your thing is one of the *many* things that makes BM great, makes it what it IS! It's like rationality is falling on deaf ears, well was, I guess I haven't spoke with her for a while now...

*edited because I decided Brian deserved a two cookies for his incredibly helpful post, not just one.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:17 pm

What she doesn't understand is that MOST Burning Man camp names and descriptions are all in humor. Most of it is a joke, not real.
"McSatan's" was just a gag... I know the guy that did that, he's nice as can be. And that camp was over ten years ago.
It should show you how full of shit that information your EX read was just because it claimed you could buy a hamburger at McSatan's. You don't buy anything at Burning Man!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:22 pm

I didn't know you were giving out cookies. I might have been helpful instead of snarky if there'd been full cookie disclosure.

Yeah, I'm the one your ex-fiance warned you about.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:22 pm

Yeah, I have a nice Christian friend who could use something like Burning Man ... she has terrible self-esteem and thinks she is untalented and ugly. She's not, but she's far from conventionally pretty and not dating. I know how Burning Man sometimes reaches people inside and can make them feel good about themselves, beautiful and talented, and how that reaches into other aspects of one's life, but she'll never even try because she thinks it will offend the Lord if she goes.

Sigh. Not much you can do.

doppelGanger · Post by **doppelGanger** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:43 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I didn't know you were giving out cookies. I might have been helpful instead of snarky if there'd been full cookie disclosure.

Sorry I forgot to tell you I have some cookies! And I thought you were helpful, actually all of you have been, I am very grateful have heard
everything you have all had to say (except for the guy stuffing his face with cookies in the corner ), honestly I thought I was nuts for a while, its good to know I am not the only one.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:00 pm

I make gooood cookies, especially oatmeal cinnamon, or chocolate chip, or deep chocolate pepper sables. Even spritzer sugar cookies in many colors. Now and then I make some mean fudge. Larry takes them on the truck with him, but often loses most of them at the terminal to his dispatcher and fellow drivers.

Care package anyone?

OOooh, Booby Cookies! I bet I could!

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:32 pm

i hope we see some booby cookies at the home for wayward art.

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:30 am

Hmmmm, no. Food and the wayward art do not mix .... but pop around back to the camp area and perhaps, perhaps .....

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:23 am

doppelGanger wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I didn't know you were giving out cookies. I might have been helpful instead of snarky if there'd been full cookie disclosure.
Sorry I forgot to tell you I have some cookies! And I thought you were helpful, actually all of you have been, I am very grateful have heard
everything you have all had to say (except for the guy stuffing his face with cookies in the corner ), honestly I thought I was nuts for a while, its good to know I am not the only one.

I didn't see anything thing here that proves you're not nuts. However, you are clearly not alone.

Lucid484 · Post by **Lucid484** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:55 am

Jesus you girlfriend sounds like my Ex-Wife!! wouldnt let me do anything I wanted or go anywhere without her. My current wife now thinks burning man is a little crazy and she has no interest in going but she told me i'm a grown man and can make my own decisions. She trusts me and knows I won't cheat so she doesnt see a problem with it.

she doesnt really want me to go because i'm going alone and she doesnt want anything to happen to me. and we havent gone for more than a dayapart from each other in over 3 years,so 9-10 days apart from her she doesnt really like......but again she has no plans on stopping me.

you only live once and this is "just" a girlfriend...there are always girlfriens....dont let someone take away such a great event in your life...this is just a tase of things to come if she doesnt let you go and you guys end up married.....trust me!

Lucid484 · Post by **Lucid484** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:03 am

HAHA i guess thats what I get for writing a reply after reading the first post and not the rest!

anyway congratulations on getting rid of that controlling religeous nut.

CLARKcon · Post by **CLARKcon** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:39 pm

C'mon folks...let's look at it for what it is. It's just a week long camping trip (with a little art) in Northern Nevada...what could possibly be so hard about that!?

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Lucid484 · Post by **Lucid484** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:49 pm

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I don't usually camp in the nude though :wink:

bigbluedoggy · Post by **bigbluedoggy** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:50 pm

Neither do the majority of folks out there...

Where's the cookies?

Woof

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:09 pm

Nothing makes one so vain as being told one is a sinner.

doppelGanger · Post by **doppelGanger** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:31 am

***UPDATE***

So I guess this isn't really the most informative update ever, but that's okay. I can now say with certainty that it is one hundred percent over, I was getting a little weak here and there, as I obviously cared for her very much (BM aside it is terrible seeing her hurting, as I am sure many of you know with other close people ) Anyway, she seems to be doing a lot better, I think this has been really good for both of us, as she is seeing her life in a new way, we both are.

My excitement and anticipation for Burning Man, however, is now unconstrained, which is hard because we are 50 or so weeks away (that is a long time to healthily be excited, I may explode before then ) -- and I am a little upset that I didn't do this sooner.

Now I just need to make a bit more of an effort getting out of this apartment. We also have a wonderful African grey parrot I will have to detach from, which is worse in some respects because she is pretty much my child... Anyway I am thinking out loud again, I came across this the other night, and it really brought my spirits up!

Oh the questions!

Re: Oh the questions!