What's a Palin

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:17 pm

ygmir wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
gyre wrote: And we live in a socialist country.
Most of the socialism is corporate welfare.
Almost everyone's standard of living would rise if so much wasn't siphoned off from the country's resources into a few private pockets.
This is an extremely wealthy country and yet I have watched our standard of living drop my whole life.
It's really the place to be if you're a billionaire CEO. Comrade.
Is there a better place to be poor?

There are legends of lands in which health care and college education is paid for by the state. But I think that these are imaginary.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:21 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
ygmir wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote: It's really the place to be if you're a billionaire CEO. Comrade.
Is there a better place to be poor?
There are legends of lands in which health care and college education is paid for by the state. But I think that these are imaginary.

if they're paid for by the state (in all its efficiency), then, who pays for them? Where does the state get it's money?

Post by **Eric** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:56 pm

gyre wrote:Unless I move into the center of a city, my next house will be placed in a county where I can do what I want.
I hear Montana works that way.

I think you're mostly right on it being that way in Montana- my brother is building a house on land we own up there, and he's doing it on his own (well, with his kids helping...), and as far as I know he didn't have to get permits for the house itself- he did have to build septic to the counties specifications before he could build the house however.

I'd call him to check, but he's up there now, and doesn't get cell service in the valley the house is in.

*sigh*

I wanna go back.

wonderphil · Post by **wonderphil** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:25 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
"that is Sammy Davis Jr. Jr., He is my seeing eye bitch."

now that is funny., thanks

wonderphil · Post by **wonderphil** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:11 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Some good stuff here:
http://www.secretsofsarahpalin.com/

Don't you have any real info to post? I believe you complained about it yourself, that all you have is comedy

Links to a reliable source that would provide a LOGICAL argument for your case would be good (why should anyone vote for OBAMA or why is his opponents not worthy of a vote)

CLUE: (a reliable source is not the trashing photo shop department of the Obama cult.)

Maybe this just shows that the Obamanation cult followers have lost all touch with reality. They have no real bullets and so are limited to shooting fake bullets. It only makes them look like the fools they are.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:42 pm

[/quote]There are legends of lands in which health care and college education is paid for by the state. But I think that these are imaginary.[/quote]

if they're paid for by the state (in all its efficiency), then, who pays for them? Where does the state get it's money?[/quote]

Why do you think that gas costs 12 bucks a gallon in europe?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:43 pm

[/quote]There are legends of lands in which health care and college education is paid for by the state. But I think that these are imaginary.[/quote]

if they're paid for by the state (in all its efficiency), then, who pays for them? Where does the state get it's money?[/quote]

Why do you think that gas costs 12 bucks a gallon in europe?
What's a palindrome?

wonderphil · Post by **wonderphil** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:09 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote: There are legends of lands in which health care and college education is paid for by the state. But I think that these are imaginary.

This is true in various countries like Sweden but you should also consider in terms of taxes. Sweden has insanely high taxes. Canada gives so called "free health care" to it's citizens, but their taxes are very high too. In addition many Canadians can not get needed care when they need it as there may be a big waiting line so they may have to go to the USA to get the health care they need. If we had a free college/university education in the U.S. taxes would increase drastically.

CUBA may be one of the lands of your legends. It is a commie controlled place where everyone is equally poor. If you were to live there, try being critical of the government by claiming that CASTRO LIED and see what happens.

The commies in the USSR and China have already figured out that communism does not work all that well.

It seems thsat we have a few slow learners on thiis Anti Palin thread.

subj of next lession comrades:

Nothing is free, even freedom and Santa is not real, someone has to pay for the slacking worms.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:23 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:31 pm

If we had a free college/university education in the U.S. taxes would increase drastically.

Ridiculous.
If you can make the grades, you should be able to go.
With a better educated populace, incomes rise.
Taxes would go down, not up.

On a pure cash basis, it's peanuts anyway.

I wouldn't mention the ussr in this discussion since they succeeded in giving more people a highly technical education, and at lower costs, granted with less sophisticated equipment in many cases.
Colleges in this country appear to be high profit, though they say no.
When extra state funding was available here, prices magically rose the exact same amount, and in state colleges too.

All anyone has to do to be an improvement on the republican party is

1. Not steal...as much.
2. Not lie...as much.

The problem you have is that the republican party has set the bar so low that anyone but Mugabe would be a step up.

Does anyone really believe the party will let McCain put the reforms in place that he proposes?

And any party opposing abortion rights opposes democracy and should not be allowed in any office in this country.
Such a position is a de facto support for th practice of infanticide, already on the rise in states with an effective ban.
Hey, the good old days.

Any arguments against real health care only work in countries that have a working regulated system in place.
The usa does not.
I actually hope to get vested in a european country's health system.
Unfortunately,so many americans do this that they are now making it difficult.

I would love to have inadequate Canadian health care.
Do they cut off all insurance coverage if you get sick, like in the usa?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:41 pm

The Federal Reserve just bought AIG, 80% ownership.
We have loaned this failing company $85 billion dollars.
That's our money.

And that's how our system really works, for those with enough money.

I can't help wondering if they could have done something more effective with all that money.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:47 pm

gyre wrote:And any party opposing abortion rights opposes democracy and should not be allowed in any office in this country.
Such a position is a de facto support for th practice of infanticide, already on the rise in states with an effective ban.
Hey, the good old days.

isn't the end result of abortion and infanticide the exact same thing? i mean, besides a few more months of discomfort?

wonderphil · Post by **wonderphil** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:58 pm

jkisha wrote:
wonderphil wrote:
jkisha wrote: I think we could be friends Eric.

JK

John, this is a serious thread not a dating thread.

and zzzzzzzzzz I am still waiting to hear if you are over left wing racists too.
I am going to wake up soon and I certainly hope to to have you confirm that you are against left wing racists too and that you are not just another sorry misogynist worm , and or a white guilt, sheep, liberal worm.
Hey, you can never tell how or where you might meet 'the right guy' and besides, I already have a wonderful partner.

But back on topic, I have learned long ago to not get into political discussions with anyone that starts repeating verbatim their candidates talking points almost word for word. So I'll just continue to enjoy other's futile attempts in this thread and occasionally post a snide remark or two.

JK

John, I was just teasing, I like to do that once in awhile. I could care less about your or any other persons sex preferences. I want a very light or no government hand on victimless so called crimes. Government should not legislate morality. However both right and left wing racists and others who may claim to not be racists have done both. It is strange that many people on this thread do not understand that or will not publically admit it. I do not like big government, it means government control over your life. This is not exactly a talking point of any people running for office.

You were so quick to be over with right wing racists, Why have you not admitted that you do not support left wing racists? Do you not believe that they exist? Or do you support them? please answer my questions enquiring minds would like to know.

Maybe a more reasonable non racist claiming person would make the claim that they are over with racists?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:12 pm

gyre wrote:The Federal Reserve just bought AIG, 80% ownership.
We have loaned this failing company $85 billion dollars.
That's our money.
.

It's not over yet!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/busin ... on.html?hp

talk of a creating an agency to buy and sell the assets of these brokerage houses.

A whole new department of government set up as a clearing house using your money!!

Like a Wholesale outlet of discounted bankruptcy housing assets.

Just get there early for the best markdowns because you will have to compete with the wealthiest people in the country for these bargains!.

AIIZ

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:40 pm

gyre wrote:
If

All anyone has to do to be an improvement on the republican party is

1. Not steal...as much.
2. Not lie...as much.

usa?

sorry for my awkward editing above....

anyway,
again,
this is a telling statement:

How about asking not to lie, or steal?
What I hear, is, that it's ok to lie and steal, as long as a person agrees with the purpose or end result of said lieing (sp?) and stealing.........
so,
you've damned your own guy there, IMHO.

back to:
who's a nicer guy, Stalin or Mao?.............

you rail against a person using talking points, and then do it yourself.

I completely agree with statements about the a-moral, insidious cheating, vacuously argumentative, deceptive candidate, I just thing that candidate should be plural...........

all those arguments fall on deaf ears, or should.

Argue capitalism vs communism, freedom vs gray slavery, rights vs servitude, etc, etc..........

and, which side of the fence will take you in a particular direction.....

but these vapant arguments relating to a particular candidates moral, social, racial, economic, forthrightness, are just semantics and matters of degree, and, said degree is based solely on subjective indicators and personal points of view.......

geeze..............

I bet we could all find all sorts of outcomes we can agree on..........life, liberty and the pursuit...............
and, we can discuss the differences in how we get there, but, I'd think agree someone is not evil just because they disagree with methodology.................

now,
lets all hold hands and sing the song from the old Coke commercials....

a one, and a two, and ah......

"I'd like to teach the world to sing............"

Ps:
In proof reading, I just realized I've obviously had more than enough wine...........

wonderphil · Post by **wonderphil** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:27 pm

gyre wrote:The Federal Reserve just bought AIG, 80% ownership.
We have loaned this failing company $85 billion dollars.
That's our money.

And that's how our system really works, for those with enough money.

I can't help wondering if they could have done something more effective with all that money.

I have not read all the details on this but if we have really bought 80% ownership of the company for a LOAN of 85 billion I believe that it was the correct decision and that will be good for the taxpayer in the long run. I believe we will make money on the transaction. Ok I may understand now, a good commie government would own 100% of the company not just 80%.

Seriously I think if it is only a long they are getting that ownership cheap it is a huge trillion $ company that had a liquidity problem because of a fairly new accounting rule. They have to mark to market some shit that noone knows the value of because there is no market in that stuff right now -- that does not mean the stuff really has no value.

the following is Cramer' take on this, I agree with him: If you bother to read the link you will see that he attacks the repub appointed chair of the SEC. I agree with him on that too.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10437645 ... trous.html

If ever there was an institution that's too big to fail, it's AIG," Jim Cramer told viewers of his "Mad Money" TV show Tuesday.

He said if the U.S. government allows AIG (AIG Quote - Cramer on AIG - Stock Picks) to fail, there could be a catastrophic deflation of assets around the world.

Cramer said the Dow could fall 1,000 points if AIG is not fixed correctly. He said the number of individuals and businesses that depend on the company is staggering and the effects of a failure would be felt worldwide.

Cramer cited AIG's Dec. 6 conference call, when the company said it had $500 million of exposure to risky loans in Europe. With bailout estimates for AIG now approaching $100 billion, Cramer argued the amount of European exposure would have to be substantially higher.

(Editor's note: Several media outlets late Tuesday were reporting that the Federal Reserve is considering an $85 billion rescue bridge loan for AIG.)

Cramer said a failure of AIG would easily cause European bank failures and possibly failures elsewhere in the world.

for another opinion see

http://quicktake.morningstar.com/StockN ... Symbol=AIG

stock price As of 09-16-2008
$3.75 (as of now $2.61)

We are reducing our fair value estimate for AIG to $27 from $76 per share.

if Morningstar fair value is correct, the US govenments 80% share would be worth about $22 bucks a share. or Based the Current Total Number of Outstanding Shares 2,688,834,000. The vgovernments share owuld be 58 billion dollars in addition they will get the loan repaid in two years. Did you say usury? I guess it does not count if you are the govenment. In 12/01 AGI stock prick peaked at $103.75

I suspect as there will be a fire sale of AIG's cosiderable assets and that someone will make a ton of money on this not necessarily the US Government. This rip off (if it does occur) might even be something we might all have reason to be pissed off about.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:51 am

it's the S & L bailout times 10

and the taxpayers are paying out 750 billion after interest for that anal intrusion.

yup, the bankers get rich off of fees and bonuses writing bad loans and then screw the public for the losses...

Oh, look, they both happened under Bushes.....hmmm

pressure from above, pressure from below.

and afterwards, the very same vultures will swoop down and gather up all the precious loot at bargain prices, alot like the RTC in the late eighties, when they sold off govt owned assets at pennies on the dollar to people like ron lauder etc etc etc.

fucking scumbags should be drawn and quartered.

oh, phil, by the way, unless you can explain what my quote means, dont fucking laugh at it, you neo-con ass-wipe.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:16 am

I agree.
No bail outs................let the market go where it will........no subsidies.......
minimum welfare..........
don't federally fund anything that can or should be done in the private sector........

It seems governments role was, at one time, meant to be minimalist.

now, so many, in so many ways, look to the gov. to provide any and all things in life.........protect us from ourselves...don't let anyone make us feel bad or hurt our widdle feelings..........but, let us say anything we want, as long as it's P.C..........tax the other guy...........give us the benefit of his work...........protect us from threats, foreign and domestic, but, don't hurt anyone when you do it............help people in different lands who won't help themselves, so, we can feel good about ourselves and that "we" helped, "we" care, even if "we" don't all agree. Do that through forced charity/taxation........

on and on........

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:47 am

Was it just 4 short years ago that our mantra was "shave the pussy, no more bush!" (till we got drunk and fucked it up by saying, shave the bush no more pussy)

Das Bus · Post by **Das Bus** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:06 am

I love Palin. I think she is a closer representative of a regular person, than any of the others. I also think she has more useful experience.

McCain has military experience and I think he's a great guy, in general.

Obama is intelligent and a wonderful speaker.

I can't stand Biden.

I don't think any of them is presidential/vice presidential material. If only we could take the best of each of them and put it into one candidate. We'd still need to pull more 'good' qualities and experience from other people though, 'Cause all of them put together still wouldn't make a good president.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:24 am

I love Palin. I think she is a closer representative of a regular person, than any of the others. I also think she has more useful experience.

McCain has military experience and I think he's a great guy, in general.

please please please tell me that you are fucking kidding.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:32 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
I love Palin. I think she is a closer representative of a regular person, than any of the others. I also think she has more useful experience.

McCain has military experience and I think he's a great guy, in general.
please please please tell me that you are fucking kidding.

um, nope, i don' t think she is.

Das Bus · Post by **Das Bus** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:33 am

Nope!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:53 am

wow. silly me.

i sometimes mistake stupidity for snark genius.

must be one of those times.

Das Bus · Post by **Das Bus** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:04 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:wow. silly me.

i sometimes mistake stupidity for snark genius.

must be one of those times.

Why Thank You! And I've voted in every election since I turned 18!

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:25 am

Aside from everything else that makes Palin completely unqualified for the office, she has one concrete stance that has totally and completely cemented the deal against her for me.

If your 14 year old daughter were to be raped by your brother, Palin's only remark about it would be "Congratulations on your new neicegrandchild".

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:44 am

The number of women that switched over to McCain tells you allot about the superficiality of women.

That substance is not an important issue as always getting their way.

AIIZ

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:59 am

ygmir wrote: if they're paid for by the state (in all its efficiency), then, who pays for them? Where does the state get it's money?

Just theory (of course!) but can you really afford to have poor people in your country? Or, should I way, consumers who have yet to reach their potential for affluent spending? Nobody gets rich off of poor people, so it's got to be in someone's interest to bring them up - at least a little bit.

I will submit that there is always a demand for low-wage workers.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:06 am

Katha Pollitt's questions to the wolf-killer babe:

DasBus, other blue pill devotees....demand answers or live in your vacuous bubbles.....praise God and pass the ammunition! Kill more wolves too!

Â§â€‚Suppose your 14-year-old daughter Willow is brutally raped in her bedroom by an intruder. She becomes pregnant and wants an abortion. Could you tell the parents of America why you think your child and their children should be forced by law to have their rapists' babies?

Â§â€‚You say you don't believe global warming is man-made. Could you tell us what scientists you've spoken with or read who have led you to that conclusion? What do you think the 2,500 scientists of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are getting wrong?

Â§â€‚If you didn't try to fire Wasilla librarian Mary Ellen Baker over her refusal to consider censoring books, why did you try to fire her?

Â§â€‚What is the European Union, and how does it function?

Â§â€‚Forty-seven million Americans lack health insurance. John Goodman, who has advised McCain on healthcare, has proposed redefining them as covered because, he says, anyone can get care at an ER. Do you agree with him?

Â§â€‚What is the function of the Federal Reserve?

Â§â€‚Cindy and John McCain say you have experience in foreign affairs because Alaska is next to Russia. When did you last speak with Prime Minister Putin, and what did you talk about?

Â§â€‚Approximately how old is the earth? Five thousand years? 10,000? 5 billion?

Â§â€‚You are a big fan of President Bush, so why didn't you mention him even once in your convention speech?

Â§â€‚McCain says cutting earmarks and waste will make up for revenues lost by making the tax cuts permanent. Experts say that won't wash. Balancing the Bush tax cuts plus new ones proposed by McCain would most likely mean cutting Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. Which would you cut?

Â§â€‚You're suing the federal government to have polar bears removed from the endangered species list, even as Alaska's northern coastal ice is melting and falling into the sea. Can you explain the science behind your decision?

Â§â€‚You've suggested that God approves of the Iraq War and the Alaska pipeline. How do you know?

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:12 am

i rather suspect that NOBODY is qualified to run this country these days, with the possible exception of simon ...

What's a Palin

Democrats grabbing failure from the jaws of victory daily!!