The Bail Out Bill Just FAIL WHALED!!

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:53 am

Oh happy day! OH HAPPY DAY!

The Trillion Dollar Bill For The Ultra Wealthy FAILED!!!

Whoo Hooo! (to quote my favorite now defunct middle class rip off bank.)

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:11 pm

anybody want to buy some gold??

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:57 pm

yup, silver too........

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:13 pm

Well, all I can say is that it should really start to get interesting now to see just what the ramifications actually are. It's a wee bit scary.

JK

SonOfUgly · Post by **SonOfUgly** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:23 pm

hahaha

betrdanevr · Post by **betrdanevr** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:12 pm

jkisha wrote:Well, all I can say is that it should really start to get interesting now to see just what the ramifications actually are. It's a wee bit scary.

JK

I'll say . . .

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:01 pm

One thing for sure, you won't be able to get a 0 down, 0 interest, balloon payment mortgage on next year's Burningman TENT!!!!

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:16 pm

Just think, maybe all you young guys will have some of those "great depression" stories to tell your grandkids like my grandparents told me about.

Well from what I remember I'll need to get a tin cup, and some pencils to sell on the street to buy food. And forget about paying the rent; I'll have to set up my playa yurt in the park.

Won't that be peachy?

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:45 pm

What does this portend for the monster gift to GM, Ford and Dodge who have frittered away all their sport-ugly-vehicle profits?
That one is supposed to dwarf the bank welfare thing.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:47 pm

GOV announced that with this bailout included, they would have to borrow 1 trillion next year. China just ordered Chinese banks to stop loaning to American banks. Our creditors are already losing 15% a year on our bonds. Why would they loan us another trillion? I think that our creditors told GOV "don't pass it if you can't fund it"
Paulson said that the bailout was the last tool in the toolbox. Our creditors told him that the toolbox was full of screws and they didn't want a good screwing any more. The FED has advanced about a trillion dollars to banks. Have the Illuminati over reached? Are they in for a good Rogering? If GOV can't get funding, will they go ballistic with taxes?
Is this the death knell for Keynesian economics. Have no fear, commerce will still go on. Without massive credit , business and individuals will have to operate on honesty and trust. Personal relationships with business partners will be very important.
The HORROR ,,, HONESTY

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:52 pm

Don't Iraqi tribesmen now insist that their bribes are in euros instead of dollars?

Bad sign.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:55 pm

Oh, and the self funded art at Burningman...Tower of Babylon, Temple, etc. and the huge bars with $10,000.00 liquor budgets....bye.

your job at the construction company that allowed you to pay rent...bye there won't be new stuff built without banks and money.

your paycheck that your employer had to cover with his credit line..$0.. cuz the bank tightened up his credit...

Maybe a blessing in disquise...who can afford $250.00 for a ticket...

or even $40.00 month internet access....

Just remember it ain't the rich guys losing, it will go all the way down to YOUR JOB, YOUR MONEY, YOUR MORTGAGE, YOUR HOUSE, YOUR CAR. the poor people on the streets will be back to pennies in their cups, not quarters

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:15 pm

If some form of bail out doesn't pass, you will indeed have some great depression stories to tell your grand kids. The bail out is contemplated to protect your freakin livelihood. The commercial paper market failed last week, albiet briefly, meaning that the pizza parlor closes it doors, your dry cleaner can't stay open, you can't get paid. This is not corporate greedheads versus the middle class. This is a crisis that will directly hit middle class America like a ton of bricks.

Yeah, it sucks, it pisses me off. But the damage is already done. The question is do we keep the economy up and running with infusions from the average tax payer, or do we do nothing and see millions of folks who had nothing to do with real estate speculation or Wall Street lose their jobs?

I think the bail out is the lesser of two evils. Its a choice between pay some now and try to right the boat or go down with the ship. The problem is we are all, corporations, middle class America and foreign investors, in the same boat.

If there was a way to stick it just to the speculators, the "creative" investors and investment banks, I would be pleased as punch. I don't think there is anything we can do now but bail out the ship or enter into a nice long decade of soup lines.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:17 pm

can't sit still wrote:Why would they loan us another trillion?

The Chinese are so heavily invested in the U.S. and export so much to us, they have a very strong interest in trying to help prop up our economy.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:25 pm

I notice that many of the failures had a first class rating by the people that are supposed to monitor risk.

With the the current non-control of interest rates and banking practices, wish them all a hearty fuck you from me.
And I'm thinking I could start a well run financial institution with 700 billion dollars.

Wall Street
It could be structured by cows and we would rate it.

The 700 billion dollar thing is a great standup act or intelligence test, depending on how you look at it.
That's positive.

Dusza Beben · Post by **Dusza Beben** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:42 pm

Boijoy wrote:anybody want to buy some gold??

Fuck gold and silver!
The smart money is in ammunition!

DB

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:55 pm

Well frack, at least the crash and proposed bail out waited until after BurningMan 2008 "The American Dream" was over, and all that's left is a mess of playa dust in people's foreclosed homes.

Camp Apokiliptica has been preaching the forthcoming disaster for a while now; with their sub-theme of "FREEDOOM and DOOMOCRACY" evolving into next year's sub-theme "YOU'RE TOTALLY FUCKED"

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:14 pm

Dusza Beben wrote:
Boijoy wrote:anybody want to buy some gold??
Fuck gold and silver!
The smart money is in ammunition!

DB

Except that, IIRC, ammo has a finite shelf life.........at least U.S. made..........

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:37 pm

Did anyone expect this problem to be repairable with a piece of paper?

LMAO

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:37 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote: I think the bail out is the lesser of two evils. Its a choice between pay some now and try to right the boat or go down with the ship. The problem is we are all, corporations, middle class America and foreign investors, in the same boat.

choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. We have been here before. Every time it happens they just throw some more green toilet paper on it. then it is find the new loopholes, screw the working class and bussiness as usual. How much is the bailout gonna be five years from now when it happens again? It will happen, and it will be worse.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:33 am

When I told people this year I was leaving the country right after Burning Man they all insisted the bad stuff was almost over. The election is almost here, everything will be fine!

So here I am, on the other side of the world, in a little country with strong exports and natural resources and healthy banks. Used to have healthy banks, that is, but the currency is tied to the US dollar and the banks dependent on foreign capital which suddenly disappeared. Every time the US stock exchange tanks, the NZ stock exchange tanks even more. Not because there's any problem, just because investors freak out and start putting their money under their mattress. The same thing is happenening in Europe and elsewhere.

Thanks, US, for sharing with the rest of the world.

I don't see how the bailout could be cancelled completely - it will be back in slightly modified form soon enough.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:21 pm

Teo de Fuego, I don't think that you have a good grasp of what's really going on. A bailout won't save your job. The FED has already injected $630 billion into the banks in the last several days. It hasn't made any difference. All that GOV is trying to do is to buy confidence. $700 billion is chump change. GOV is hoping to convince investors not to pull out. The problem is only just getting started. The lost equity so far is $6 trillion,,, bank losses so far claimed < $1 trillion,, stock about $4 trillion.
Property value contractions are close to $1 trillion a month[august]
Our entire GDP is only $13 trillion.
Did you notice how blindingly fast this is all moving? If they approved the bailout tomorrow, it would be weeks before the banks could sort the poison out of all their tire 3 tranches. They have to painstakingly sort the non-performing loans from the rest. The total value of the derivatives is just over a quadrillion dollars. There are tons of NINJA laced Koolade [loans] poured into the global credit punchbowl.
The investors are running for the exits. The banks are running out of time.

Another way to look at the mess; Half of all Americans work directly or indirectly for GOV. A big percentage of them are paid with borrowed money. Our creditors won't subsidize us forever. The Chinese GOV told the Chinese banks to stop lending to us. The rest of our creditors will take a cue from the Chinese.
Don't forget, we pay $2 billion a day interest-only on our debt. We also borrow just over $2 billion a day. It won't be long before our creditors decide to cut their losses.
The Chinese stock market has fallen about 67% and the banks have $1.4 trillion in bad loans. Something has to give.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:41 am

can't sit still wrote:Teo de Fuego, I don't think that you have a good grasp of what's really going on.

you may be right.

can't sit still wrote:The FED has already injected $630 billion into the banks in the last several days.

Are you referring to Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae, which are not actually banks. AIG was/is an insurance company. Lehman Bros was allowed to fail. Indy Bank was propped up but was it to the tune of $630 billion?

can't sit still wrote: GOV is hoping to convince investors not to pull out.

darn straight

can't sit still wrote: The problem is only just getting started.

Im afraid you're right

can't sit still wrote: Did you notice how blindingly fast this is all moving?

like a house of cards in a playa dust storm

What course would you pursue if you were Bernanke and Paulson?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:00 pm

Good question. Greenspan and Clinton originated this mess. They've both left the stage. Paulson took the job to try to preserve his company. Bernanke took the job because he didn't see that Greenspan was looking for a fall guy.
The depositors and stockholders see that the American banking system is WAY too big for the supply of domestic capital. The Yen carry trade carried the system for a few years but, couldn't last forever. Our banking system will contract to match the available American capital. Since the capital was off-shored to capitalize the offshored jobs, it might be a biog contraction.
Paulson and Bernanke. are doing the only thing that they can. They're trying to buy confidence with $ 700B. The equity loss so far is about 6.5T. If it's leveraged 30--1 for the corresponding CDOs, it won't be pretty.
The bank losses are just under a trillion but expected to go to 2 T. Since most of the stuff was off-balance-sheet, they didn't have adequate capital. Lehman Bros had 1.56% capital and was leveraged about 50--1
The game now is to hide the writedowns as long as possible. The Telegraph and the Guardian in GB are screaming bad news. The European investors know what is going on.
Most investors read Asia Times and Pravda. They know what is going on.
They see the people who caused the problem [too much credit] trying to fix the problem with more credit.
GOV revenue has dropped 6%. Now GOV is trying to get congress to spend $700 B and do a tax cut. Investors see that we have even less ability to pay them back.

The US chastised Japan for continuing to support failed banks. Now we're doing the same.
We need to let the banks fail as painlessly as possible. They can't be saved. Just like Starbucks,,, there's just too many of them.
Sure, it will damage the general economy. Why throw gas [credit] on the fire. Let the financial contraction move at it's own pace and concentrate on providing for the general economy. The US can easily survive without giant LBOs and huge mergers.
Hedge funds were outlawed in 1935 by the Glass-Steagol act for good reason. Let them die away. Investors have already pulled out 1/4 of the money.
The PTB would like us to believe that the general economy will crash without a huge bloated banking system and that it will do nicely with a huge bloated banking system.
The market demands balance. The crash will reduce the number of banks regardless. The contraction can be made less painful by NOT prolonging it.
What happens to any system that is artificially propped up?
Paulson and Bernanke are only interested in the baking system. They have no intention of preserving something for Joe Average.