Mutant vehicle - figuring horsepower required?

[falk]

could, with an airplane, it be additive, in that you'd not only have the lower power, but, less lift from the thinner air?

*And* the propeller is less effective as well, so an airplane gets it from three sides.

[ilmarinen]

The problem with most MV conversions is taking a vehicle designed for 60 mph travel and making it go 5 mph with very heavy loads, etc.

I keep thinking something closer to the industrial vehicles designed for high weight, low speed operation would be ideal (if harder to find and more expensive). Seems a converted garden tractor drive train would get you close to that.

For examples, look up "Burden Carriers" and "Tow Tractors" online to see lots of vehicles designed for huge loads at load speeds on level ground--with small engines, often LP powered.

eg:
http://www.taylor-dunn.com/vehicle_sear ... n_carriers
http://www.johnson-lift.com/industrial_ ... d_duty_u4s
And this is a very cool looking tracked vehicle for towing:
http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/pmp-ital ... 85823.html

These same companies make "people movers"/"trams" that also look closer to the ideal playa-like vehicle.
eg:
http://www.johnson-lift.com/industrial_ ... php?C=tram

Not saying those are the cost effective solutions, but they give some sense of power/weight ratio options. Other things I like about them is the small engine is unobtrusive to the vehicle, and the drivers are way out front, with a snubby nose, etc. Not good for freeway collisions, but excellent for slow-speed driving and etc.

I hear that suspensions being overwhelmed are another common problem with some of the heavy-loaded-party-bus MV. How important is suspension on the playa, in folks' opinions? Vs. just a fixed axle with maybe balloon tires (easier to build/modify up and more robust).

[Grazelda]

For examples, look up "Burden Carriers" and "Tow Tractors" online to see lots of vehicles designed for huge loads at load speeds on level ground--with small engines, often LP powered.

eg:
http://www.taylor-dunn.com/vehicle_sear ... n_carriers
http://www.johnson-lift.com/industrial_ ... d_duty_u4s
And this is a very cool looking tracked vehicle for towing:
http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/pmp-ital ... 85823.html

I hear that suspensions being overwhelmed are another common problem with some of the heavy-loaded-party-bus MV. How important is suspension on the playa, in folks' opinions? Vs. just a fixed axle with maybe balloon tires (easier to build/modify up and more robust).

Those links are very educational, mainly to help illustrate why battery powered might not be a decent solution. The ratings shown particularly at taylor-dunn point to the low distance (20 miles) and high amp demand. Feeding them 20-40 amp chargers with 8 hr charge times makes you need a generator almost as powerful and heavy as the drive train itself; seems to mean charge times about 200% longer than the duty cycle.

Since starting this thread we've looked closely at two potential auto solutions we already have -- a 93 Chevy S10 manual or a 93 Suburban 2500 with all the trimmings. Both would have potential (the burban for something really cool) but just would blow the original and remaining idea of building an almost biodegrade MV and mean way too much metal.

So far the only decision we've reached in power is aiming at a refurb 20hp kohler twin with elec start and 14 amp alternator for about $600. No decisions on how to translate the power to the wheels, nor a very firm decision on the steering for it. Figured to use axle sets from a heavy boat trailer which have nice leaf springs and 15" tires - which is why no steering decision yet. Whether to adapt a drum or disc brake system to one or the other axle is also still in the air. I am completely transmission and differential illiterate - but learning. I tried to get with a garden tractor solution, but the wheelbase seems too small to push around a 6' or 8' platform.

From the drive train up would be almost all wood, generic tongue & groove where possible and added hardware where needed. Figure by using 4x4 posts for lower and upper frames we have strength & weight to enough to haul about 6 people on 2 bench seats with a 10'-12' fly bridge kinda drivers seat. The leaf springs are rated for more, which strikes me as a good thing. The weight and size of that -seems- to call for about 10hp-12hp engine, so I figured a 20hp gives us more wiggle room for not much more bucks, and an engine that can be repurposed afterwards. Still trying to figure a reinforced air intake system and better ways to CYA on the cooling.

The art this frame will carry is coming along nicely in concept and budget, and might just might cause a grin or two when complete.

[Elliot]

Yeehah! I do believe I shall keep an eye on this thread!

For now, I have this one thought: How about a tiny 4x4 powertrain? This would be similar to the Geo Metro idea which was mentioned here, but a 4x4 would have low range gears in addition. Tracker? Subaru Brat? I don't know if these small 4x4s even have a low range?

[ilmarinen]

For both those truck-type vehicles, you should be able to rip it down to the bare frame just about (no body, etc.), true?

Depending on how you wanted it all to look, think you could weld an extended-frame onto a garden tractor rear-end, just have it flare-out in the front. Interesting description of a similar utility jury-rig here:
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showpost. ... ostcount=4

One of the challenges with the boat trailer setup will be how you convert one of those trailer axles into a powered axle--or add another axle for power?

-B.

[quote="Grazelda"]

...

Since starting this thread we've looked closely at two potential auto solutions we already have -- a 93 Chevy S10 manual or a 93 Suburban 2500 with all the trimmings. Both would have potential (the burban for something really cool) but just would blow the original and remaining idea of building an almost biodegrade MV and mean way too much metal.

So far the only decision we've reached in power is aiming at a refurb 20hp kohler twin with elec start and 14 amp alternator for about $600. No decisions on how to translate the power to the wheels, nor a very firm decision on the steering for it. Figured to use axle sets from a heavy boat trailer which have nice leaf springs and 15" tires - which is why no steering decision yet. Whether to adapt a drum or disc brake system to one or the other axle is also still in the air. I am completely transmission and differential illiterate - but learning. I tried to get with a garden tractor solution, but the wheelbase seems too small to push around a 6' or 8' platform.
[/quote][/quote]

[ygmir]

There is a site "Government Liquidators" that sells surplus military stuff.
I've seen aircraft "tugs" on it, and, they go cheap.
They are made to pull large loads, are low profile, smaller engines, and really low gears......

You might peruse that site to see what they have, there are probably many things there that would do what you want, and, reasonably priced........

[falk]

I keep thinking something closer to the industrial vehicles designed for high weight, low speed operation would be ideal (if harder to find and more expensive).

Yeah; at this point I'm hoping to find a junked forklift that still has a good motor and controller.