Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC

Post by **actiongrl** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:03 pm

I thought to put this in the Theme Camps section, but it didn't really qualify as just a camp idea -- it's more of a general zoning/sound issue.

We've been meeting here at the office trying to figure out ways to encourage more kinds of music - such as acoustic - at the event. One thought has been to gently "zone" certain areas (similar to the way that the AEZ is zoned) toward unplugged music, in an area that is quieter. However, we don't want to get in a position of more "enforcement" and more rules. It would have to be up to the community to make this sort of thing a reality, and to work with their neighbors to maintain an acoustic zone.

Anyone out there have some thoughts on ways to encourage these other types of music at the event?

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:17 pm

I could be wrong about this (and if I am please jump in here) but I thought that I remember in 98 they had split the city in half, making a generator side and a generator free side. To the right of the man (if you're facing him) was genny free and to the left was the generators allowed side.

This made great sense to me as anyone that didn't want to be subjected to the fumes and noise of a generator knew exactly where to go.

I believe (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that they had to stop this practice because MOST people wanted to camp on the generator free side.

Would this proposal encourage more acoustic music? I'm not sure if it would directly, but I think it's part of the solution, creating an area of the city that is free from the constant noise of the internal combustion engine and the Whoomp-Whoomp-Whoomp of the rave camps.

III · Post by **III** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:59 pm

before 99 (or 2000, can't quite remember now) there was a loud side (for amplified music, etc) and a quiet side, rather than relegating rave camps to the ends of the city. there was no proscription of generators on the quiet side, though you were encouraged to baffle them and/or not run them late at night.

III · Post by **III** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:00 pm

>>Anyone out there have some thoughts on ways to encourage these other types of music at the event?

yeah, i do...

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:09 pm

Prohibit all amplifiers that go to 11. Cause it's one louder than 10.

Post by **actiongrl** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:52 am

Trey, I'd love to hear what you have to say on the matter.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:58 am

We've been meeting here at the office trying to figure out ways to encourage more kinds of music

might I ask why?

III · Post by **III** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:40 pm

>>I'd love to hear

maybe - maybe not.

it seems to me that part (and only part) of the proiblem is that, despite protestations to the contrary, a large percentage of people who come to burning man *do* see it as a rave.

taking active (if unpopular) steps to reduce this perception (further?) would probably reduce the levels of electronic music at burning man. you don't need to get rid of it, but i suspect the question at hand has to do with its overwhelming presence. (which ineterferes with other forms of musical expression which aren't as intrusive).

such steps could include time curfews for loud camps, encouraging leo activity at loud camps (because if it's really about the music no one has anything to worry about), limiting number of camps which gets lssa permits, and more rigerous enforcement for those who violate volume levels outside of the lssa area.

on the other side, continue with acoustic performances at center camp, and maybe bring back the main stage for amplified, but not prerecorded/sampled performances.

then again, you may be fucked, since other types of music performance require talent as a prerequisite, while any shmoe with a trust fund and the ability to practice for half an hour to learn how to match beats can start labelling themselves as a dj, and so you'll always have an enormous supply with not so much demand.

and before anyone gets their panties in a wad, i'm not saying there are *no* talented dj's. just that there are a lot more who aren't.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:32 pm

and before anyone gets their panties in a wad, i'm not saying there are *no* talented dj's. just that there are a lot more who aren't.

Oh, then allow me Trey.

Assuming that spinning records somehow equates to talent, I'll say that there are damn near NO talented dj's at BM.

Kisses.

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:59 pm

Isotopia wrote:

Assuming that spinning records somehow equates to talent, I'll say that there are damn near NO talented dj's at BM.
Kisses.

I agree 100%. I am no "raver" however i knwo my rave music and my DJ's. I work for an Electronica Music company. The DJs at BM ARENT the best, but then you are out there on the playa, things tend in my opinion , to sound a little better.

Yes many people who attend burning man just see it as a rave, thought it is so much more. This is a tough area. I am not really sure what would be a good way to handle it. I stumbled onto many smaller theme camps who had there own types of music, maybe trying to figure out a way to cluster them?

Post by **actiongrl** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:03 pm

such steps could include time curfews for loud camps,
encouraging leo activity at loud camps (because if it's really about the music no one has anything to worry about),

> limiting number of camps which gets lssa permits

(already the case, actually.) And did you know that the greatest number of no-shows are in the LSSO area?

>and more rigerous enforcement for those who violate volume levels outside of the lssa area.

Enforcement is being stepped up this year, and we're making it clear that violators may have their gear disabled.

Another way we discourage this notion is that we reject press registrations from electronic music-related press, documentaries that focus on DJ's, and discourage when we can most any coverage that has a rave angle...and we request that our event not be listed on electronic music calendars.

Why would we like to encourage musical diversity at Burning Man? Because we too don't think it's just a rave, but the loudest seems sometimes to overpower the rest. We know those other kinds of music are out there, and may just find themselves getting stepped on. Ever been enjoying a performance by an acoustic guitarist, only to have the FunkMobile9000 drive up and park next to the camp and obliterate the performance? We're thinking along those lines. Perhaps not an entire city-wide zoning...but what if there was a specially zoned area, or village, for acoustic music?

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:31 pm

I think one of the reasons you don't get much acoustic music on the playa is that the environment is incredibly hard on instruments, especially things like woodwinds. Not many people want to bring up their pride and joy to have it trashed by heat and dust.

Also, I have talked to a lot of Bay Area musos about Burning Man, and one of the main reasons they don't go is that their summers are already occupied with the Sweetsmill and/or Lark in the Morning Music camps, which sound a lot like Burning Man in the woods for musicians and dancers.

That being said, a non-techno music area sounds interesting, if it actually had music going on and wasn't just a techno-free zone. I suspect it'd have to be off the Esplanade, though.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:23 pm

formless screed

some basics

DJs do not equal musicians
musicians do not necessarily make good DJs

doing either well takes ability (won't use the loaded word 'talent').
does NOT take talent, or a trust fund for that matter, to bang out 3 chords on a guitar, plugged in or otherwise (pithy rhyming couplets optional) so lets drop that angle.

some folks tend to not like rules at BM. Some folks do. Seems ALL folks like rules that discourage things that are aesthetically un-appealing to them.

so, all that being said, I think it important to ask if ones motives are pure by doing some hypothetical experimentation.

AG, you mentioned wanting to make less likely the occurance of the funk9000 rolling up and ruining someones accoustic performance. Sounds reasonable. Can we also make less likely the madmax9000 rolling up with a compliment of angry bullhorn users and ruining the same performance or is that treading on peoples freedom of expression? I know it takes piles of poetic talent to viciously vent through a bullhorn.

Are dawn Diamanda Galas performances O.K.? If it is a requirement that it be non amplified then is it O.K. to have the overtures from the Ring Cycle, with full Wagnerian brass, played at sunrise?

basically, be careful that what you are not in effect trying to discourage is something you don't find aesthetically appealing. If your motives are pure, go forth and make quiet.

Post by **actiongrl** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:42 pm

That's why I am not trying to say "What are the ways we can discourage electronic music at Burning Man?"

III · Post by **III** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:59 pm

i, however, was. (mainly because i find that it, both culturally and acoustically, overwhelms other forms of expression out there).

but, i'm not in any sort of charge, so you're safe.

Sandwichman · Post by **Sandwichman** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:48 pm

What about limiting the wattage or decibels of sound systems on the playa allowing more accoustic performances to be heard. I am a dj but I experience the rave scene every weekend I am not looking for it on the playa. Also it sounds like most of the dance camps on the playa go after that trance sound and diversity even in rave music could add some light to the situation. Maybe after I have gone to my first burn I will have a theme camp next year called Raver Vacation for ravers who want to go to the playa to escape the scene for a week and take in other aspects of life. I understand why so many people can be opposed to dance music being pumped at 30,000 watts but if maybe if systems were limited to even 5000 watts it would have a tremendous impact. Well that is all I can thionk of through my sick head but I will come up with more later. This will be my first burn but as a dj of 9 years I feel I can add to this conversation. I am not going to BRC to spin or dance all night to techno I am going for the art aspects and the community. I hope to meet a good portion of you this year.

Jason

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:32 am

What about limiting the wattage or decibels of sound systems on the playa allowing more accoustic performances to be heard.

There will be a decibel limit this year.

A sound sound policy is in the works. BTW, it's not gonna be about limiting expression or any of that BS.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:40 am

I'm still advocating the cannibalism policy.

Ifins it loud and annoying, it's probably pretty damn tasty.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:22 am

will that spl limit be regional or directional? Will rangers be trained in how to take an accurate reading?

Sandwichman · Post by **Sandwichman** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:33 am

stuart wrote:will that spl limit be regional or directional? Will rangers be trained in how to take an accurate reading?

Bass is a non-directional sound or at least most of the frequencies used in dance music below 80hz are non-directional most highs and mids are very directional and with a good tall source at the back of the aplified area you could break up most of those frequencies before escaping into other non-amplified areas. I think SPL should be regional and apply to all sources of sound. If you want to be fair apply the same rules to everyone. Decibel meters are not to difficult to use and if I had more time would love teach some of the rangers how to use them. They are actually kind of fun like having a radar gun. You end up checking everything from peoples speach to other ambient noises. Like said I am an avid fan of dance music but I understand other peoples views on why the volume should go down. I love my music at 11 but there are times when clear sound is better than loud sound.

Jason
Alignment Sound

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:34 pm

will that spl limit be regional or directional? Will rangers be trained in how to take an accurate reading?

That's the idea. Instrumentation is being looked at and will be evaluated. Some Rangers will be given training on how to you it with a uniform protocol/procedure so's to provide consistency and eleminate any bias that might result from different folks measuring different ways.

Not really sure about the regional aspect of it but that's something that will need to be thoroughly discussed. Personally I'd like to insist that we get input from as many folks within the project as possible because I think the issue might be construed as means of selectively reducing the numbers of techno camps when the real issue is sound levels and sound leves only.

Sandwichman · Post by **Sandwichman** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:40 pm

I think the issue might be construed as means of selectively reducing the numbers of techno camps when the real issue is sound levels and sound leves only.

actulally with lower sound levels it might encourage more sound camps to come out with their smaller sound systems and not worry about being blown away by concert sound.

Jason

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:43 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:I'm still advocating the cannibalism policy.

Ifins it loud and annoying, it's probably pretty damn tasty.

Absolute genius, I'd say.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:14 pm

You sound like a good recruit for the Playa Patchouli Contermeasures Squad.

Please, submit your resume'.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:58 pm

I was really comfortable with the volume in our camp last year. We had 4 channels of very clean sound at 150/ch. The key was in having very good power; quality vs quantity. Enough to rock it within our sphere but not so loud that you could hear it 100 yards away. Of course, the DJs always want it louder. Still, if you wanted it very quiet in your neighborhood at night, we were not your ideal neighbors. Then again, if you put us next to something on the order of space virigins or dis-orient we would be completely drowned out. It seems there are a lot of camps like this. Perhaps having only one demarcation for sound level is not ultra serviceable. We have music, but we are more LSVA, not LSSA.

Perhaps one wing for LSSA (sol system, dis-orient, space cowboys) and another for camps that feature amplified music but don't need a truck to haul their P.A. gear to the playa. Say under 500 watts.

just thinkin out LOUD

ronski · Post by **ronski** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:58 pm

Somewhere in the BM guidelines-- I think under Themecamp instructions--it stipulates that sound systems are limited to 300 watts. I assuming that's for most unregistered general purpose squatters, not the registered big'uns, and I'm assuming that's the output wattage for your main amp. About the size of a normal home stero setup. It's what I'll be using as a range for my camp this year.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:13 pm

Limiting a system to XXX watts is kind of useless. Speaker efficiency and the direction they're pointed makes a huge difference in how loud things are. I'd camp next to a camp with a clean 500 watt system pointed away from us before I'd want someone with a 100 watt system cranked up all the way (distorting heavily) and pointed straight at my tent.

SPL at a certain distance during certain times of the day is about the only enforceable thing I can think of. Hopefully it will encourage camps to take steps to contain their sound a little. Speakers pointed down with walls and fluffy cushions around the dance area, etc.

My vote would be for labeling certain sections of the map as being "Funk Zone" "Accoustic Alley" "Jazz Sphere" etc and encourage people to camp in the are that matches their musical tastes. Try to get radio stations to get into it and camp out in that area, playing that type of music. Hopefully peer pressure will keep most people camped there in line.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:37 pm

Dork wrote: SPL at a certain distance during certain times of the day is about the only enforceable thing I can think of. Hopefully it will encourage camps to take steps to contain their sound a little. Speakers pointed down with walls and fluffy cushions around the dance area, etc.

I'm not sure about this, but does it not make a diffrence how many people are in a particular area along what kind of area you are dealing with make the diffrence in db calibration?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:56 pm

I'm not sure about this, but does it not make a diffrence how many people are in a particular area along what kind of area you are dealing with make the diffrence in db calibration?

Sure. An empty, solid dance floor will bounce more sound out to the surrounding area than a full dance floor surrounded by fluffy soundproofing would. I don't think we're worried about how loud the music is inside the camp.. we're worried about how much escapes. The DJ should be responsible for making sure sound levels are below a certain limit X feet away from their camp which means going to check every now and then. Unfortunately, many of them won't so that means either a ranger wandering around taking readings or the neighbors complaining.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:33 pm

does anyone know of any db reader software for PDA's and or cell phones? Looks to me like lots of problems could be solved with it.

only problem is that it brings the topic of cell phones into play.

Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC

Encouraging acoustic music and diversity in BRC

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