My God can kick Your God's ass.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:38 am

oh hell, EVERYTHING is better on the playa.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:53 am

The existence of God does not preclude the existence of Science. The existence of Science does not preclude the existence of God. People who believe otherwise are fundamentalists. Religious or non-religious they both operate with faith as the primary motivating principle.

There is a single completely logical stance that applies to the existence of God--'I don't know'. Anything else moves into the realm of belief.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:04 am

jkisha wrote:If we or littleflower or anyone else that has been on the other side of this argument, would ever meet; I would be much more tolerant and civilized.

actually, JK, we probably live pretty close, and i was thinking of challenging you to a pillow fight...!

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:52 am

goathead wrote: How do you know it's faulty?

Why should people need eye glasses? Why do people get cancer? There is lots not exactly perfect about us. Same reason I believe the "gog" wiring is faulty.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:58 am

littleflower wrote:
actually, JK, we probably live pretty close, and i was thinking of challenging you to a pillow fight...!

I'm in L.A. -- West Hollywood to be exact. I don't know about the pillow fight, but I'm always up for cocktails, lunch or dinner. You'd probably like me once you met me; and I think you'd get along splendidly with my parnter, it sounds like you two have a lot in common when it comes to spirituality.

JK

fciron · Post by **fciron** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:37 am

ygmir wrote:and, the problem with "magic" is........?.............

are you daft?

No problem. I just don't believe in it. Perhaps you're daft.

Littleflower,

Thanks for the clarification. I was not sure if you were equating 'unobserved' with 'unexplained'. I do find it interesting that on the internet people tend to withdraw to the most extreme positions (myself included) and arguments seem to escalate, whereas if we were having this discussion over drinks it would probably be less polarized.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:49 am

fciron wrote: I do find it interesting that on the internet people tend to withdraw to the most extreme positions (myself included) and arguments seem to escalate, whereas if we were having this discussion over drinks it would probably be less polarized.

Yup, that's exactly right. And that comic is soooo true! Made me laugh.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:54 am

fciron wrote:
ygmir wrote:and, the problem with "magic" is........?.............

are you daft?
. Perhaps you're daft.

good chance of that.............hahahaa

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:58 pm

littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:If we or littleflower or anyone else that has been on the other side of this argument, would ever meet; I would be much more tolerant and civilized.
actually, JK, we probably live pretty close, and i was thinking of challenging you to a pillow fight...!

Wait till you get him on the Playa, take him on at Astro Pups.

I'll cheer you on.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:59 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:oh hell, EVERYTHING is better on the playa.

That's why the other 50 weeks suck.

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:13 am

goathead wrote:
Wait till you get him on the Playa, take him on at Astro Pups.

I'll cheer you on.

They are in Avalon Village as is our camp Uncharted Territories, we were right next to them--the wrestling is a hoot.

JK

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:21 am

jkisha wrote:
goathead wrote:
Wait till you get him on the Playa, take him on at Astro Pups.

I'll cheer you on.
They are in Avalon Village as is our camp Uncharted Territories, we were right next to them--the wrestling is a hoot.

JK

Missed them this year, but then again missed a lot of things when your running on playa time.

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:27 pm

lurker wrote: There is a single completely logical stance that applies to the existence of God--'I don't know'. Anything else moves into the realm of belief.

Do you mean 'belief' or 'faith'?
Belief corresponds to experience, as opposed to faith which is always somewhere out there on the horizon as a mere possibility.

I suspect God is a little beyond a purely 'logical' approach.
If one person says they experience God (and are otherwise pretty normal in appearance) and another couldn't even conceive of such an experience, would we automatically assume the first person is hallucinating because it is not an easily shared or demonstrated experience?

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:47 pm

jkisha wrote:
goathead wrote: How do you know it's faulty?
Why should people need eye glasses? Why do people get cancer? There is lots not exactly perfect about us. Same reason I believe the "gog" wiring is faulty.

JK

I love trying to see how people reason through this stuff.

So JK, are you saying that the need (I call it a compulsion) to seek or believe in God is faulty just by reason of the fact that....
we have a myriad of imperfections??? And if we were perfect, and had such a need it would be alright then??

[Again, for the record, I'm mostly anti-religious but still believe in all kinds of 'wierd shit'.]

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:37 pm

dana wrote:
I love trying to see how people reason through this stuff.

So JK, are you saying that the need (I call it a compulsion) to seek or believe in God is faulty just by reason of the fact that....
we have a myriad of imperfections??? And if we were perfect, and had such a need it would be alright then??

[Again, for the record, I'm mostly anti-religious but still believe in all kinds of 'wierd shit'.]

No. I am saying that if we were perfect we wouldn't have such a need.

JK

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:16 am

jkisha wrote: No. I am saying that if we were perfect we wouldn't have such a need.

JK

But if we where, Perfect, would we even speak to each other?
I mean why should we then?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:22 am

huh? were you talking to me?...........

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:26 am

ygmir wrote:huh? were you talking to me?...........

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:54 am

goathead wrote:
But if we where, Perfect, would we even speak to each other?
I mean why should we then?

That's funny, especially living in Hollywood/West Hollywood.

JK

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:38 am

thirt33n wrote:OH MY NON-GOD!!

Well said !

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:21 pm

jkisha wrote:
goathead wrote:
But if we where, Perfect, would we even speak to each other?
I mean why should we then?
That's funny, especially living in Hollywood/West Hollywood.

JK

I notice it some in the BRC latter in the week.

dana · Post by **dana** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:33 pm

jkisha wrote:
dana wrote:

So JK, are you saying that the need (I call it a compulsion) to seek or believe in God is faulty just by reason of the fact that....
we have a myriad of imperfections???
No. I am saying that if we were perfect we wouldn't have such a need.

JK

That's an assumption.
Perfection (like infinity) is something that is never attainable.
I take it that you see that need as just another kind of nuerosis. But in this case, you can't understand the need/compulsion by standing on the outside trying to look in without actually trying on the 'need' to see how it fits.

I'm told that even God is still evolving, and presumably not perfect either.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:35 pm

dana wrote:I'm told that even God is still evolving, and presumably not perfect either.

how reliable is your source?

dana · Post by **dana** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:45 pm

so far, so good.....

betrdanevr · Post by **betrdanevr** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:21 pm

Thanks for the intro to the subject, Dana. There seems to be a lot of info out there about an evolving God...from spiritualists to anthropoligists.

From "The Evolving God" by Barbara J. King, anthropologist, an interesting quote below (I think):

My goal in Evolving God is to explore the deepest roots of human religious behavior through an understanding of what I call belongingness. Belongingness is mattering to other people, and making emotional connections with them. What can we see in the prehistory of our species that tells us about our earliest religious-spiritual selves from the point of view of belongingness? I write about grieving Neandertals gathered around a grave, where they mourn the death of a companion through symbol-laden ritual; about early Homo sapiens clustered in a dim cave passage, dancing and chanting together as they confront the mysteries of life and death that still cause us to wonder today. And I explain, too, the empathy and compassion sometimes expressed by modern chimpanzees and gorillas to their groupmates, as they confront issues of life and death in their own ways.

Provocative, of course, but very interesting!