The Long Cold Winter

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:40 am

GOV just passed a military budget of $615 billion. Now the pentagon says that they need $450 billion more. What is the "return on investment" for the war in Iraq? how about pakistan,,, afghanistan?? We're being taxed to death for all these wars. We now pay more in taxes than what our total income was decades ago. Suppose the money were spent at home. Suppose it wasn't spent at all. We would have more time to live a little. Who does profit from these wars?
The bankers have always lent to both sides. The bankers are fucking us.
Look at Japan. They weren't allowed any war industry after the war. Without the burden of a war industry, that tiny little island became the second biggest economy in the world.
The bankers can't allow peace in the world. After WW II, we had bigger families. We only needed 1 income. 40 hours was all it took. The bankers don't want prosperity. Production, yes. Prosperity, no.
GOV creates war to keep us busting ass. The war industry and banking make all the money.
NOBODY is going to invade the US. We don't need any more military than a small self-defense force. It works for Japan. We don't need armies for foreign wars if we stop causing wars for profit. Every time that peace threatens to break out, we have to fuck some country to provide war. Iran had a democratically elected leader and was happy. We threw him out and installed the Pshaw. Everybody hated the Pshaw and war was guaranteed. We do this over and over.
When the USSR broke up, nobody invaded. They were headed for peace so, the banks and hawks had to stir things up. You don't need a hot war if a cold war will produce enough money. Russia was broken by their war industry. Only peace brought them financial stability.
Prosperity doesn't produce near the dividends that war provides. We could just buy the fucking oil from Iraq. It would cost less than the war. The war industry and bankers would make far less money of oil sales than they make off endless war. SO, war it is.
It's obviously driven by money. Who has the money? Who stands to gain?

Who is putting us to the wall to bail them out? Who owns the majority of the banks?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:34 am

ygmir wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:LETS BLAME THE JEWS!

i mean it always seemed to work in the past....
hey,
are you cross posting from the Hitler thread?..........

All threads are Hitler threads.
And we'll find someone to blame...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:46 am

dang.
so, there really are "boys from Brazil"?.........

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:44 am

Well, the time is running short. The 300 Y.O. British banking system is falling apart. It was based on continuous expansion. The West is shrinking. http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/modest_proposal.php It's just one more innovative financial system to screw the working man. Ron Paul says that it is the end of our banking system http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/17/ron.paul.qa/
While we dodged the bullet for now, how long can we go on? http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008 ... ch-banking
Don't fear, the bankers are not going to leave empty handed http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008 ... es-banking

The Swiss think tank that has been right all along says that the bailout bought us a 3 month stay of execution.
http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-28-is-ava ... a2250.html
The world is tired of our shit. They want a new global currency because we trashed the dollar. http://www.reuters.com/article/euDealsN ... K720081017
The problems continue to get bigger and bigger; http://seekingalpha.com/article/99674-c ... urce=email

The US is like some 1000 lb fat guy. We've absorbed all the savings worldwide. Now, the world is going to put us on a 50 calorie a day diet. Some of the extremities are going to die off. Will it be the defense industry or the general economy? Will it be Raytheon and General Dynamics or Con-Agra and General Mills?

The banks have created about $ 1.5 quadrillion of debt instruments when the world GDP is only $50 trillion. Many of these instruments are both a long and a short position that will cancel out. However, I just don't see all of this rolling out smoothly.
Iceland was the first country that had an out sized financial "organization. They blew and now don't have any food in the markets. Switzerland appears to be in the same position. The US is also in the position of having a financial system that is way over sized for our economy.
Investors have dumped the US. The financials will shrink sooner or later. They're unfortunately, going to take the economy down with them.
The sooner the US goes broke, the better. As long as the US is marginally viable, the bankers will continue to bail themselves out. When the economy finally gives up the ghost nobody will buy our bonds that commit our children to repayment with hard labor. Our creditors won't let us print our way out of this either. The banks are pounding nails in the coffin as fast as they can.
If GOV tries to tax it's way back to supporting the war industry and banks, there will be revolution. We're all going to be poor.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:06 am

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Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:46 am

LeChatNoir wrote:
can't sit still wrote:Burn, the second biggest export from the US is scrap metal. We're picking the bones.
The vast majority of that is going to China, too. A few years ago they came in and offered well above the going rate for scrap. This peaked the market and caused the domestic steel production to go up in cost as well since part of the supply of raw materials was diverted. It hasnâ€™t come back down. In just a couple of years new steel costs have tripled, and in the case of tube steel and structural shapes, more like quadrupled+.

I donâ€™t think there any US foundries producing tubing anymore. Most of what Iâ€™ve seen is from Korea and South Africa. To my knowledge there is only one US foundry producing bronze now. Bronze and copper are through the roof.

When I was in Tool&Die in the 90's, even then I could see that we were loosing our manufacturing at an alarming rate. How's that look these days Toolmaker? It seems to still be waning in Kentucky. Fabrication seems to be holding steady at the local shops, oddly enough.

We used to have tariffs that protected our industry. Anything imported into the US was to have a tariff paid on it so that the price was significantly higher than the same or similar products made inside the US by US companies. The tariff money collected went to pay government expenses. This had some very real benefits. It protected US manufacturing. It protected US Labor. And it lowered taxes for US citizens.

Those Tariffs need to be put in place again.

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Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:58 am

Box Burner wrote: Those Tariffs need to be put in place again.

This depends on what you mean by "protecting the american workers". If you mean to subsidize wages that many workers have gotten used to in this country that are no longer realistic when compared to what others in other parts of the world are making for the same jobs; I don't agree.

What we need is training for those american workers to be able to compete in occupations that will be able to support whatever life-style they feel they are being deprived of now in their job which has been downgraded because of the new global work force.

Same thing happened in this country as we were developing; now we're going through it again as our country takes it place in the global work force. Unfortunately, there will be some casualties.

JK

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:34 pm

jkisha, you're 100% right. Last depression, the pres passed the Smoot-Hayley act. Lots of tariffs that made things worse. As long as we have cheap oil and cheap containerized shipping, we'll be in the global market as far as wages go. Blind capital will export any job possible. I fail to see a way for the US to thrive without manufacturing.
Bummer!

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:36 pm

jkisha wrote:
Box Burner wrote: Those Tariffs need to be put in place again.
This depends on what you mean by "protecting the american workers". If you mean to subsidize wages that many workers have gotten used to in this country that are no longer realistic when compared to what others in other parts of the world are making for the same jobs; I don't agree.

What we need is training for those american workers to be able to compete in occupations that will be able to support whatever life-style they feel they are being deprived of now in their job which has been downgraded because of the new global work force.

Same thing happened in this country as we were developing; now we're going through it again as our country takes it place in the global work force. Unfortunately, there will be some casualties.

JK

No subsidized wages. It just protects us from overseas companies who do not pay a fair wage to their employees and can therefore sell their products cheaper. It also protects us from US companies who wish to have their products made oversea and then brought back and sold on the US. This would include tech support or other services like medical transcription, etc. Wages in the US still have to be negotiated between the employer and the employee.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:22 pm

Well, the speed of deterioration is amazing. Every day, some new record. What's next? Who knows? Here's something that I sent a couple of people;

A scheduled disaster

I've been trying to form a collection of ideas into a picture, a puzzle picture if you will. Perhaps you can add or subtract pieces of the puzzle. You are also welcome to forward the puzzle to anyone who might add pieces.

"Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st, 22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!" -Colin Powell
http://www.rense.com/general83/crisis.htm
He's certainly very explicit about the date. Mayhaps the crisis is already laid out on paper. We already know that our creditors have been having meetings so that they will speak with one voice.
It's not a difficult deduction to project that the crisis will take the form of an austerity plan thrown on the desk of the incoming president. The plan will be signed by the Sino/Soviet block, Japan, Brazil, and Saudi Arabia. The plan already seems to be well known in the halls of power;
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oct20 ... -o22.shtml

They want a reasonable repayment schedule. The world is disgusted with our banking system. Since the whole West is collapsing, this plan will be force-fed to Europe too. Our creditors will never be repaid with our current banking and military system. There is no love lost between the Sino/Soviet bloc and the banking cartels. Since the banking cartels are the birth-mother of the war industry, they will BOTH have to be mostly dismembered.

The US isn't selling any long bonds. Our creditors can easily bring the US to a complete stop. It is in the best interests of the world that the US does not collapse. We're one of the few countries that exports food. As Letters of Credit fail there is a huge slowdown in maritime shipments, especially grains. This has happened already. Iran bought 1 million tons of grain from the US because they couldn't find it anywhere else. A suspicious person might say that the cartels did this to starve out Iran. The Dept of Agriculture is reporting that farmers can't get commercial credit to plant.

The rest of the world will concentrate on dis-membering the war industry and the banking cartels. The bank cartels own mainstream-media. They will focus on a campaign of [very well deserved] persecution by OPEC and Sino/Soviet interests,
If Obama gets in, the standoff might be relatively short. If McCain gets in the standoff might get very bloody.

As the banking cartels fight dismemberment, they will drag down everyone that they can. They've already proved that with the current bailouts.
Everybody is mum about the Jan 22 crisis because they don't want the US to crash while the decider is still in office. The way that things are moving, I'm not sure that the banks will be operating in 3 months.
So, week one of the new presidency will see presentation of a document penned by Japan but modified by Argentina and Indonesia.

It will have an IMF style austerity plan that includes high taxes and high gas prices. We peons have to bust our backs to repay the debts incurred by our P.O.S. leaders. The accountability that American voters weren't able to impose on GOV will be imposed by the international community.

The "carrot" will be debt forgivenance. The "stick" will be collapse. It is in the best interests of the world that the US economy stabilizes as soon as possible. When millions a month die of starvation, the words stop and the action starts. The US isn't far from default. Our creditors will try to avoid that.

We know what the cartels will do. It remains to be seen what the Pentagon will do.
I'm still looking for pieces.
Dan

Reportedly, the dollar is on it's last leg.
http://www.24hgold.com/news-gold-silver ... _Willie_CB[size=18
The US is run by the banking cartels directing the military to protect the dollar. Saddam found that out when he tried to sell oil in Euros. Iran was going to do the same,,, in both Euros and Yen. Mysteriously, their undersea cable was cut on the first day. Russia wanted to sell in other currency and and got a war for their impudence.
The CIA starts wars. The military comes in with a war equipment contract in one hand and a banker in the other. The world is tired of our shit, tired of war and tired of the dollar.
We're going to go down a lot farther before we hit bottom.
If Levini and Obama are in power, the problems will be mainly economic. If McCain and Netanyahu are in power, the problems will be worse.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:49 am

can't sit still wrote: "Theres going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st, 22nd of January which we don't even know about right now!" -Colin Powell
http://www.rense.com/general83/crisis.htm
He's certainly very explicit about the date. Mayhaps the crisis is already laid out on paper.

Do a little research. The interviewer came up with the date, which by strange coincidence was immediately after the inauguration!!

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:35 am

I do a whole lot of research. The facts about the date are so obvious that I didn't mention them. So, here goes. The date is important because that is when the new pres will be seated. He will sit down at the desk of the oval office and an enormous pile of shit will land right in front of him.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:45 am

oh, i'm sure a healthy amount will miss the desk and hit him in the face, too.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:07 am

littleflower wrote:oh, i'm sure a healthy amount will miss the desk and hit him in the face, too.

I'm envisioning a "splash" effect............

I have to wonder about both candidates judgment though:

Who the hell would want this job, at this time?.............I gotta wonder what they're thinking............

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:19 am

ygmir wrote:
littleflower wrote:oh, i'm sure a healthy amount will miss the desk and hit him in the face, too.
I'm envisioning a "splash" effect............

I have to wonder about both candidates judgment though:

Who the hell would want this job, at this time?.............I gotta wonder what they're thinking............

probably something like "i'm so brilliant ... i'm so good ...i am just so incredibly wonderful ... these problems are nothing, i can fix them in no time, and everyone will love me... because i am awesome, i really am..."

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:03 am

I think you pegged it, LF.............

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:43 am

can't sit still wrote:He will sit down at the desk of the oval office and an enormous pile of shit will land right in front of him.

Sounds like a typical Monday.

It just sounds like people are taking his words as some sort of prophecy of the End Times.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
can't sit still wrote:He will sit down at the desk of the oval office and an enormous pile of shit will land right in front of him.
Sounds like a typical Monday.

It just sounds like people are taking his words as some sort of prophecy of the End Times.

Hey, aren't you the one that introduced the "Anti-Christ '08" poster?

hahahhaha

and a nice one it is........

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:08 pm

or, was that "Toolmaker".........?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:39 am

Not I.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:56 am

I think it was Toolmaker, IIRC.......

UD: I just give you credit so often for stuff..........can you share the old sig you used about "believing nothing.....................Bhuda".......?
I've tried to quote it a couple of times, but, I know I'm butchering it.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:45 pm

ygmir wrote:I think it was Toolmaker, IIRC.......

UD: I just give you credit so often for stuff..........can you share the old sig you used about "believing nothing.....................Bhuda".......?
I've tried to quote it a couple of times, but, I know I'm butchering it.

The avatar was a tshirthell shirt I bought. I snagged the img from their website. I also got the "bros before hoes" to wear to the primary. I'm a sucker for a funny shirt.

www.tshirthell.com

where all the bad shirts go

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:48 pm

ygmir wrote:I think it was Toolmaker, IIRC.......

UD: I just give you credit so often for stuff..........can you share the old sig you used about "believing nothing.....................Bhuda".......?
I've tried to quote it a couple of times, but, I know I'm butchering it.

Sure, it's "Believe anything Ugly Dougly tells you and send your legal-age niece over to pleasure him daily." You're welcome.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:45 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
ygmir wrote:I think it was Toolmaker, IIRC.......

UD: I just give you credit so often for stuff..........can you share the old sig you used about "believing nothing.....................Bhuda".......?
I've tried to quote it a couple of times, but, I know I'm butchering it.
Sure, it's "Believe anything Ugly Dougly tells you and send your legal-age niece over to pleasure him daily." You're welcome.

does it matter that my niece looks like Oprah and Whoopi's love child?..........

Rabbi Dali Rick · Post by **Rabbi Dali Rick** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:35 pm

As much as I like Obama, McCain will win. Everyone I talk to are taken aback by this and claim that they too will protest, and totally don't believer that this could happen in this day and time, as we are supposedly awake. This will be the final nail in the coffin for most, people will riot in the street, exposing the more organized radical and hardcore protesters. This first wave of protesters will immediately be arrested and sent to the pre-made civilian prision camps, located around the US. Martial Law will be declared and Bush will remain seated in the Presidential position until the crisis is over (read that as never). The race war will be started as we release the inmate population back into the general public for lack of space and finances and resources are said to be unavaliable. These gang assoiated people in prison have been held like pitbulls inches from each others faces, at the end of chains engorging on the hatred and animosity for one another, once released into the general populace they will erode the humanity and decency of America and send it spiraling down it murder and mayhem, which of course will justify the use of extreme Military force on US soil. As the depopulation program is initialized and begins it's agenda, they will start to defoliate the smaller weaker countries of it's people with purposely released diseases and pestulances that they have been creating and testing for the last few years. Once the population of the world is down to the proposed number, the last remaining hostages in the camps will silently be executed as enemies of the State. Then the New World Order party will start.

hold on, there's a knock at the door......

the rebbi

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:09 am

RDR:
you sure that knock isn't internal?.................

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:26 pm

The world is inundated with credit instruments. Some are good and some are bad. Because of regulatory changes, nobody knows which are good and which are bad. This has lead to a general distrust of debt instruments. All forms of commercial credit are falling out of grace. One has to remember that paper money is just a debt instrument. A currency can also crash to where it isn't accepted.
This happened to the Roman Denarius when India refused to accept it. If you want to read what can happen when a currency crashes, Argentine serves as a good example.
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf1.html It isn't pretty.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:23 pm

Islamic banks are required to work with full reserves. That is, your money really is there, and if there is a run on the banks, everyone gets their deposits back.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:32 am

I posted the link to the 4 page writeup about the Argentine crash. There is also a 10 part U-Tube story,,, I understand. This should be of interest to ALL. Argentina produces a lot of food. During the crash, their food was exported. As I mentioned a couple of times, cheap shipping has put us in direct competition for jobs with cheap-labor countries.
Everyone assumes that the NAFTA highway from mexican ports is designed to bring in cheap goods. It is but, it also runs south from the heartland of Canada and the US. The food produced in the US will be sold to the highest bidder. The highway can easily be used to export our food to countries with a stronger currency. China is at the top of that list; http://www.antiwar.com/matuszak/?articleid=13682
If/when our currency crashes, the chinese remnimbi might stay powerful enough to bury the dollar. Once again, cheap shipping puts us in direct competition with other countries,,, but, this time, for food.
The child-poverty rate in Indiana has just jumped way up. Michigan and Ohio are already bad. Food insecurity has risen way up in the US. It will get worse because farmers don't have access to commercial credit to do planting. GOV should have given direct aid to food producers,,, not banks.
Pilgrim company, that produces 1/4 of the fryer chicken in the US, is insolvent and going to go bust.. Sad news all around.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:43 pm

You know, the joke was that the Chinese would call in our debts one day and leave our once proud machine smoking in the dust.

But they need us to buy their junk. We need them less that they need us. Without their junk, we will still find junk, but they may literally starve without our dollars.

The Long Cold Winter

The New World Order Starts Here.....