How long will the voter buy the Republican Lies!

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:23 pm

littleflower wrote:i don't suppose it has ever occurred to you that the democrats might write bills they know bush will veto in order to make the republicans look partisan? that is a tool, you know.... one among many ...

but, as i said, it looks like a shake-up will happen ... and in 4 years blaming bush will be very stale. i will be as happy as anyone if everything gets better. but you ... if things get worse, even much much worse, i have little doubt that you will still be trumpeting the old anti-republican line. it's all you know ...

besides extremely tasteless polls, i mean ...
Unfortunately, it will get worse before it gets better. But make no mistake the democrats WILL make it better. Maybe we'll at least make a start at recovering Clinton's budget surplus that Bushy turned into the biggest budget deficit in history.

JK

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Post by littleflower » Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:07 pm

i do hope you are right, jk...!

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Post by ygmir » Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:53 pm

jkisha wrote:
littleflower wrote:i don't suppose it has ever occurred to you that the democrats might write bills they know bush will veto in order to make the republicans look partisan? that is a tool, you know.... one among many ...

but, as i said, it looks like a shake-up will happen ... and in 4 years blaming bush will be very stale. i will be as happy as anyone if everything gets better. but you ... if things get worse, even much much worse, i have little doubt that you will still be trumpeting the old anti-republican line. it's all you know ...

besides extremely tasteless polls, i mean ...
Unfortunately, it will get worse before it gets better. But make no mistake the democrats WILL make it better. Maybe we'll at least make a start at recovering Clinton's budget surplus that Bushy turned into the biggest budget deficit in history.

JK
Clintons budget surplus was hardly as simple as good stewardship........
the dot com bubble was still inflating, creating huge tax revenues, and driving a false economy. They also changed some sort of federal borrowing from longer term to shorter term, creating a false savings in immediate interest on debt. But, when they had to roll them over, after Clinton left, the interest rate was much higher than it would have been long term.......

I'm no economist, but, that's what I remember, anyway.
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:08 pm

littleflower wrote:i do hope you are right, jk...!
Well, I'm pretty sure that I am; and I can say that because my opinion has been derived from the opinion of one of my heros, Warren Buffett.

I have tremendous respect for him and his ideas and I have been spending more time as of late reading anything I can find and listening to anything I can listen to that he has had to say about our economy and who he feels is the better choice to get it back on track.

He is extremely optimistic but does warn that it will get worse before it gets better. He is also very supportive of Bernacki and especially Paulsen in regard to their intellectual ability to handle the crisis and in the bailout plan as was originally out-lined by Paulsen.

He also feels the Obama would be the best of the choices to lead us out of the crisis and back on the road to prosperity again.

He is the richest man in the world, starting from virtually nothing. He was worth $150 million when he was in his forties and lived on a $50,000 a year salary. I believe he still lives in the same house he bought in 1958 for 35,000 or so. No wonder he's rich--he obviously doesn't spend his money on impressing people. (Unless you are impressed by a man giving away almost half of his fortune $37 billion to charity)

JK

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:23 am

Here comes the lies!

The Republican fantasy continues with lowers taxes, spending and we're going to balance the budget in four years.

The republicans have never ever come close to paying off or reducing the deficit only the democrats have been true.

That is what you hear, this is what you get:

Lower taxes for those that don't need a tax cut. The capital gains tax is the lowest ever. It used to be 80%. Now its the reported the same as your Fed Tax Rate.

Market like this is were the smart can make shitloads. Especially when you hear about how discounted stocks are compared to their recent highs.

If the Republicans control it, then we will be in a war within two years.

You heard it here: IN TWO YEARS!

The deficit will be twice what it is now in one term.

Its all lies like Cheney and Rove!

AIIZ

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Post by ygmir » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:31 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Here comes the lies!

The Republican fantasy continues with lowers taxes, spending and we're going to balance the budget in four years.

The republicans have never ever come close to paying off or reducing the deficit only the democrats have been true.

That is what you hear, this is what you get:

Lower taxes for those that don't need a tax cut. The capital gains tax is the lowest ever. It used to be 80%. Now its the reported the same as your Fed Tax Rate.

Market like this is were the smart can make shitloads. Especially when you hear about how discounted stocks are compared to their recent highs.

If the Republicans control it, then we will be in a war within two years.

You heard it here: IN TWO YEARS!

The deficit will be twice what it is now in one term.

Its all lies like Cheney and Rove!

AIIZ
Are you then stating we won't have any war if Obama is prez?
Or, will it just not be his fault........
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Post by Dr. Pyro » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:03 am

AIIZ, who are you to say that the people who don't need tax cuts are the ones who get them? I got news for you: I sure as hell could use a tax cut. If anything, the poor should have their taxes raised because, on a per capita basis, they use more of the federal government largess than any other single group, whereas the rich use the least. That moron Obama wants to raise my taxes because I am successful and throw money at the dregs of society. That's why I voted for McCain. Lower my taxes, keep your mits out of my wallet, and Goddamn it, get rid of the Alternative Minimum Tax. I've been paying it for years and it's grossly unfair. And that whore Nancy Pelosi wants to raise it. Fuck you, not on my watch, bitch.

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Post by betrdanevr » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:06 am

Well, he'll have inherited it, but I really do wonder what he'll be able to do about it very soon. . .

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Post by Elderberry » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:17 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:AIIZ, who are you to say that the people who don't need tax cuts are the ones who get them? I got news for you: I sure as hell could use a tax cut. If anything, the poor should have their taxes raised because, on a per capita basis, they use more of the federal government largess than any other single group, whereas the rich use the least. That moron Obama wants to raise my taxes because I am successful and throw money at the dregs of society. That's why I voted for McCain. Lower my taxes, keep your mits out of my wallet, and Goddamn it, get rid of the Alternative Minimum Tax. I've been paying it for years and it's grossly unfair. And that whore Nancy Pelosi wants to raise it. Fuck you, not on my watch, bitch.
Well, the problem is that those that are making the bucks then have one of two choices (if you aren't afraid to speak the truth). You either take care of the poor, if for no other reason to give them enough so that they don't revolt and put all your hard earned money and life-style in jeopardy; or you euthanize them.

I don't have any objection to paying taxes. My objection comes with how the money I pay has been managed. It is this country that has given me (and you) the opportunity to earn what we do. Taxes, like them or not, are a necessary evil.

Part of the problem with this country is that we have all gotten selfish. Bush starts a war and tells us to just go on living our merry lives and spend, spend, spend. And you wonder why we go so eagerly into war? I think that there should be a minimun 10% flat tax on everyone's earnings to pay for any war that the country 'needs' to fight.

And anyone that thinks that the next President, whoever it is, isn't going to raise taxes is in total denial. There is no way that we can ever balance the budget or take care of the deficit without raising taxes.

I could go on, but don't have the time.

JK
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:18 am

Since the False Economy didn't work out as planned, when are we going to get around to a Real Economy?

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Post by ygmir » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:45 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Since the False Economy didn't work out as planned, when are we going to get around to a Real Economy?
when we get back to trading eggs for shoes.............

everything else is false, dependent on currency, and, therefore manipulated........or manipulatable.........
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:29 pm

ygmir wrote: Are you then stating we won't have any war if Obama is prez?
Or, will it just not be his fault........
Yes, or at least not a war that wasn't justified!

Bomb, bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran sings McCain!

Obama knows to get to a balance budget- one nuke should suffice!
Dr. Pyro wrote: If anything, the poor should have their taxes raised because, on a per capita basis, they use more of the federal government largess than any other single group, whereas the rich use the least. That moron Obama wants to raise my taxes because I am successful and throw money at the dregs of society. That's why I voted for McCain. Lower my taxes
What?

That's a lie!
Read this breakdown.

Image

Show me one area where the wealthy doesn't benefit from, even social security?

there is alot of infrastructure expenditures and sitting at the top collecting the most money are some very wealthy entities. Tell me one area of expenditure where there isn't one? Agriculture! Highways! Military! Government! Here's a good one- Homeland security!

Hey, have you heard McCain say anything to the effect that politicians are overpaid and he's going to reduce his pay?

We need to take care of our own in a highly dynamic workforce.

Do you pay social security. Everyone should even if they will need it or not. It like public education. It only works when everyone contributes.

We need to close the loopholes that allow some wealthy from not paying their full percentage.

You need write offs not a tax break, Dr.

Like Obama says, corporations have gotten away with too much in our world economy.

If Mccain gets in, don't worry he'll raise your tax if he is going to balance the budget in four years. Why? There is no way that it can be done without it.

Hey today, I made $X,000 on the rally to day. I'm selling it off before the fed announces the cut tomorrow and switching to shorts again! Its like shooting ducks in a barrel and its easier then gambling if you know what you are doing. So why lower the capital gains tax. If they raise it another 10%, it not like i'm going to stop shooting at sitting ducks. The market is so predictable only an idiot loses money!

Clinton raised the capital gains tax and our market took off because lenders and investors see a government that can balance it books as security in a sound economy.

If McCain wins and he doesn't do anything (I know he's going to be the one of most ineffectual sitting presidents ever) our economy is still going be in the dumps.

Mark my word Dr. its only going to get worse without obama. That's why he has the most brilliant economic minds backing him up!

You wouldn't gamble against Buffet, would you?

AIIZ

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:37 pm

Looks like Homeland Security is giving me the finger.

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Post by Elderberry » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:10 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Looks like Homeland Security is giving me the finger.
LOL That was funny. I read this twice then went back to look at the graph--only you would see that in the graph! :)

JK
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Post by littleflower » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:25 pm

i am confused ....

is it possible that i am the only one who sees "health and human services"??? is that line invisible to youz guyz?

or does health and human services money go to the rich? wealthy senators, maybe...

SSN to the wealthy is next to NOTHING ... and they are taxed on it, too...

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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:33 pm

The democrats are only the soft side of the same problem. Lacking balls, they succumb to monied interests just like the rest.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:45 pm

You have to be an ignorant moron to think only the Republicans lie and do bullshit things that screw us.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

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Post by Elderberry » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:49 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:You have to be an ignorant moron to think only the Republicans lie and do bullshit things that screw us.
Even I will agree with that.

JK
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:04 pm

littleflower wrote:i am confused ....

is it possible that i am the only one who sees "health and human services"??? is that line invisible to youz guyz?

or does health and human services money go to the rich? wealthy senators, maybe...

SSN to the wealthy is next to NOTHING ... and they are taxed on it, too...
It goes to some of the most powerful corps in America- the health industry- i.e. pharmaceutical, hospital and medical corporations, doctors

It's also one of the most profitable industry with 20% increases each year for the past 30 yrs!

http://www.healthindustry-insights.com/ ... US21038208

littleflower wrote:SSN to the wealthy is next to NOTHING ... and they are taxed on it, too...
only on the first $90,000

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0127/p09s01-coop.html

How the Wealthy Rip Off the Social Security System

Nathan Newman points out that amid all the rhetoric on Social Security, the Bush Treasury Department yesterday admitted that the wealthy are regularly ripping off the system.

Specifically, Treasury's J. Russell George, who is the inspector general for tax administration, testified that high-income citizens were using the "S Corporation" designation to officially pay themselves low/no salaries to escape social security tax. They then declare all that income as "S Corporation" profit.

How much is this scam costing Americans? According to George, in the 2000 tax year, the owners of 36,000 single-shareholder 'S' corporations received no salaries at all despite each having operating profits of more than $100,000. As a result, there were no employment taxes paid on $13.2 billion in profits.

That's billions being stolen each year from the Social Security system as President Bush runs around the country saying we need to cut ordinary people's benefits. Then again, what do we expect? Bush, after all, let us know he has no interest in making people pay their fair share. As he said flippantly, trying to make people pay their fair share was wasted effort because "rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway."


Keep going find me another and blow that up in your face!

AIIZ

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Post by Elderberry » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:08 pm

How is that money being 'stolen' from the social security system? You can't take out more than you put in. They are 'in theory' investing privately in their own personal retirement plans.

I don't really see where that is a rip off; unless I am not understanding something correctly.

JK
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:25 pm

its like a public school system. It doesn't work unless everyone contributes even if you don't have children.

But McCain is going to fix that with doubling the child tax credit.

Oh great all we need now is to have everyone have mormon sized families and no one pays taxes.

I give up Dr. Pyro. Lets not tax anyone and we would not have anymore wars!

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Post by littleflower » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:26 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
littleflower wrote:SSN to the wealthy is next to NOTHING ... and they are taxed on it, too...
only on the first $90,000

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0127/p09s01-coop.html

How the Wealthy Rip Off the Social Security System

Nathan Newman points out that amid all the rhetoric on Social Security, the Bush Treasury Department yesterday admitted that the wealthy are regularly ripping off the system.

Specifically, Treasury's J. Russell George, who is the inspector general for tax administration, testified that high-income citizens were using the "S Corporation" designation to officially pay themselves low/no salaries to escape social security tax. They then declare all that income as "S Corporation" profit.

How much is this scam costing Americans? According to George, in the 2000 tax year, the owners of 36,000 single-shareholder 'S' corporations received no salaries at all despite each having operating profits of more than $100,000. As a result, there were no employment taxes paid on $13.2 billion in profits.

That's billions being stolen each year from the Social Security system as President Bush runs around the country saying we need to cut ordinary people's benefits. Then again, what do we expect? Bush, after all, let us know he has no interest in making people pay their fair share. As he said flippantly, trying to make people pay their fair share was wasted effort because "rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway."


Keep going find me another and blow that up in your face!

AIIZ
first - you are confusing expense and income, AZ. the graph you posted showed the outlay, not the income. the amount of health and human services money that goes to the wealthy is miniscule - if you have proof that it is not, post it.

second. S corporation income is passed through and taxed at the individual level... and it is subject to additional self-employed social security tax, which is charged at 12+%. that's less than the total charged on a W-2, where both taxpayer and corporation pay 1/2, but the S-corp owner pays all of it... i will explain how this works if you really really want me to ... i have worked in tax for 23 years... fortunately a past life, at the moment ... unless i get dragged back into it...

i think you could find some idiot to prove any damn thing you want to believe. god knows there are plenty of idiots out there.

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Post by littleflower » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:37 pm

OMG i just found out you are right about the scorp thing ... i have been working with 1065, and they are similar to 1120S, so i figured they were the same on SE tax...

the IRS claims that they are very quick to audit S corp officer compensation ... and they might be, but what a stupid loophole... gag.

however ... that health and human services amount in your graph is huge ... and you have not convinced me either that the wealthy get much of it, or that S corp owners are, in general, wealthy...

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Post by goathead » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:29 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Looks like Homeland Security is giving me the finger.
Hopefully they used a little lube on it first.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:15 am

littleflower wrote:OMG i just found out you are right about the scorp thing ... i have been working with 1065, and they are similar to 1120S, so i figured they were the same on SE tax...

the IRS claims that they are very quick to audit S corp officer compensation ... and they might be, but what a stupid loophole... gag.

however ... that health and human services amount in your graph is huge ... and you have not convinced me either that the wealthy get much of it, or that S corp owners are, in general, wealthy...
I didn't mean to say that the wealthy is getting it all. Of course not, but it still funnels down to those that run and supply the health care system.

The health and human services serve a wide range of social classes. Though the wealthy can pay for better services then the health and HS can provide. From those on welfare, clinton did much to get more people off the rolls, taking off those that can work to ending those to have more children while on the rolls.

I too wish to lower everyone's taxes. I don't like paying for services I don't use. But McCain is going to make it worse if we don't balance the deficit and its crushing interest. You can see its one of the top four expenses.

Obama didn't have to say anything about taxes. I wish he had lied just like McCain- remember he was against Bush's tax cut, but he has Alzheimer's. Obama is being truthful and if you read the following link, he's going to inherit the worst deficit in our lifetime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/us/po ... ref=slogin

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Post by MozyBonz » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:20 pm

Dear Red States:



If you manage to steal this election too, we've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.



To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85% of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share. Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22% lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.



Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq , and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.



With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines, 90% of all cheese, 90% of the high tech industry, 95% of the corn and soybeans (thanks Iowa!), most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.



With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92% of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.



Additionally, 38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.



Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico

Peace out,

--Blue States

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:35 pm

That was a great post.

JK
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:35 pm

Sounds good.

At least we won't have to turn to Mexico for "guest workers".

If we let the illegal aliens from the Red States through at all, they will be as indentured servants.

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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:17 pm

I was listening to the news this morning as was so busy I didn't catch the state, but in early voting a or some machines were found to be turning Obama and democrat votes into McCain and Republican votes.

So this is going to be how Obama loses by a bunch of machines. In montana, luckily by a close friend of mine (I even rented one of his spare offices next to him) that sits in the state legislature. We had many conversations about these new machines. All of them were about how insecure all software is and how we shouldn't allow our votes to be stolen. He also works for Right Now Technologies. After he was elected one of the first bills he passed was one outlawing electronic voting machines in the state. I commend him for it.

Hopefully our fears are not coming going to be realized.

AIIZ

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:27 pm

I don't have any problems with electronic voting machines--IF there is a paper trail to verify/audit votes if required.

I saw that report; seems like it was more of a problem with the alignment of the mark on the screen. I think they got it sorted out now and they will be re-calibrating the machines every morning.

Hopefully that will take care of that particular situation.

JK
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