You don't know shit about the effects of grazing in the desert. Its a welfare system! Cattle are the biggest reason for the decline of wildflowers in mountains and the spread of non-indigenous plants of the west as well as the decline of native fish and stream health. Compare the number of grazing units required acres in Basin as compared to required grazing units in the east. 1,000:2
The Tongass should have been logged and it wasn't until the 80's. The logging industry was and is the biggest reason for the decline in logging jobs.
The National Forest Welfare System is also to blame by allow over harvesting.
So again you don't know shit about the industry!
No Fuck you twice Goathead.
Ted Stevens (R-AK) Found GUILTY!!
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
Logging in the west is the biggest single reason of the decline of native salmon runs- dams are second.
You can find another job goathead. Animals can't apply for re-training grants!
Sorry, I won't shed a tear for the welfare for millioniare loggers!
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/the- ... est-alaska
The Tongass Rainforest: Alaska's Crown Jewel
Under Threat by the Bush Administration
Washington, DC, International — Many consider the Tongass National Forest to be the "crown jewel" of our national forest system. Governor Murkowski of Alaska, and the Bush administration are agressively pursuing this ecological wonderland for logging.
Logging the Tongass
Southeast Alaska, the 500-mile long panhandle of Alaska, is rainforest country. It is a lush area of a thousand forested islands and fiords near the northern end of the great coastal temperate rainforest that sweeps far northward from the California redwoods up along the Gulf of Alaska. This kind of forest, found in several countries, was always the rarest forest type on Earth. Because of this rarity and a history of intense logging, it is even more threatened than tropical rainforests. About one-third of the old-growth temperate rainforest remaining on Earth is in the Alaska panhandle -- and although the forest here is still intact, it is in great jeopardy.
Surprisingly, the great ancient rainforest of Alaska's panhandle has no official name. We call it the "Tongass Rainforest." Once, the Tongass National Forest was comprised of the entire Tongass Rainforest. Over recent decades, however, much of the best forestland has been turned over from the national forest to private ownership and the State of Alaska. Although reduced in size, at 17-million acres the Tongass National Forest is now about the size of West Virginia and is still by far our largest national forest.
The Tongass Rainforest is home to an abundance of wildlife unlike anywhere else in the United States -- five species of salmon, whales, grizzly bears, black bears, wolves, black tail deer, wolverines and magnificent birds such as the bald eagle, northern goshawk and marbled murrelet.
Looking at either the Tongass Rainforest as a whole or just the Tongass National Forest, most of the landmass actually is not forested. Fully two-thirds of it is rock, ice, muskeg and shrub forest. The remaining third is so-called "productive forest" or "commercial forest," but trees on the majority even of this third are so small they are unattractive to the logging industry, and the habitat they offer is not exceptional. The fight over logging here is primarily over a small fraction of the forest -- the big-trees.
Logging In the Tongass: Introduction
On the Tongass National Forest -- the part of the Tongass Rainforest that you own as an American citizen -- the Bush administration recently dismantled forest protection that had been enacted through the strongly expressed will of the people. Under President Clinton, the Roadless Area Conservation Rule was enacted to protect nearly one-third of the 192 million acres in the national forest system, nationwide. These "roadless" areas contain some of the last remaining wild places in the country. Despite the Rule's wild popularity with the American public and Bush's pledge to uphold the rule if elected, his administration recently withdrew the Tongass National Forest from the Rule's protection. The 9.3 million acres (not all of it forested) in the Tongass National Forest that have lost this protection include much of the critical old-growth habitat in this last, largest remaining chunk of coastal temperate rainforest. This puts much of the heart of Alaska's rainforest, once again, back on the chopping block.
Logging companies have targeted the big-tree ancient forest stands that provide the best wildlife habitat in the Tongass Rainforest. To date, a million acres of this big-tree forest have been clearcut, making this rare forest type within the Tongass Rainforest rarer still. The timber industry is tearing out the biological heart of the Tongass Rainforest, with approximately half of the big-tree stands gone.
Another root of the problem with logging in the Tongass Rainforest is that it is marginally economic, even during the best of times. Accordingly, logging on private and public lands in the Tongass Rainforest has been heavily subsidized, and industry's strategy has been to log the best of the forest first, then the best of what is left. Political pressure has stymied much-needed forest protections at both the congressional and agency levels, although there have been some substantial successes over time.
The United States Forest Service: Getting the Cut Out
While about half of the big-tree ancient forest and two-thirds of the biggest-tree stands have been decimated, the United States Forest Service has for decades hidden these facts from the public and Congress. The Forest Service uses statistics to imply that all 17 million acres of the Tongass National "Forest" is indeed all forested -- while in reality, two-thirds of it is not. The agency also abuses data on forest composition by using statistical slight-of-hand to embellish the small acreage of big-tree forest with vast acreages having dense stands of small trees, erroneously claiming that tree density alone, not forest canopy structure, creates good habitat.
Logging on Privately Owned Lands and the Forest Service's Responsibility
The impact of logging on the Tongass National Forest has been extreme, but acre for acre the impact of logging on private lands in the Tongass Rainforest, conducted now for about a quarter-century, is even worse. Conservation organizations have fewer tools for dealing with forest exploitation on private land because of private property rights. Greenpeace advocates that the corporations logging on private lands in the Tongass Rainforest bring their operations up to Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) standards. The FSC is a non-profit organization devoted to encouraging the responsible management of the world's forests. Obtaining FSC certification assures that environmental, social, cultural and economic harm is minimized and that an operation is sustainable, informs consumers and benefits the corporation in the marketplace. This would be a marked improvement over current practices.
Another dimension of private forestlands in the Tongass Rainforest is that they are intermingled with lands of the Tongass National Forest. Although the public has limited power controlling logging on private lands, management of the national forest can and should compensate as much as possible for destructive practices on the private forest. In fact, the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) requires the Forest Service to consider cumulative environmental impacts when making decisions and to release an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). Cumulative impacts include those that accrue over time from more than one project, or that cross land ownerships. Unfortunately, the Forest Service has been steadfast in its refusal to consider the massive clearcuts and extreme impacts of logging on nearby private land as it plans its own projects.
Wanted: Your Taxes for Clearcuts
Adding insult to injury, your taxpayer dollars subsidize the timber industry in Alaska's rainforest, both on public and private lands. The remoteness of the Tongass Rainforest and its rugged terrain make it the most expensive place to log in America. Since 1980, logging on the Tongass National Forest has cost Americans nearly one billion dollars, and is still losing an average of $35 million per year - the biggest money loser in the national forest system. Whether on private or public forestland, and even when clearcutting the most valuable stands of the Tongass Rainforest, logging has proven to be a boondoggle.
In addition, corporations logging their own lands in Alaska are allowed to sell their "net operating losses" at a discount to other corporations, which then write off those losses on their own taxes. This is a practice that was ended elsewhere in the nation years ago, and it has artificially enabled the corporations to abuse their lands and degrade the integrity of the Tongass Rainforest with logging operations that are not economic. As always, the public pays more taxes to make up for the lost revenues when corporations don't pay their fare share.
The Jobs Myth
Most of the wood from the Tongass is exported to Asia or shipped to the contiguous U.S with little or no processing. Our tax dollars and our precious rainforest are being squandered, and so too are the jobs that could have been provided to fully process the wood in the U.S. The economy of Southeast Alaska has not been dependent on timber for years. In a region with a population of 75,000, there are only 650 remaining timber-related jobs in Southeast Alaska, down from a decade ago when the timber industry employed 5,000. The single largest employer in the region is still commercial fishing. The second largest employer is tourism and recreation. The bulk of jobs in the region are with the local, state, and federal government, and retail. According to the Alaska Department of Labor, tourism-related employment has steadily grown, and with falling employment in the logging sector, now provides almost 20 times more jobs than logging in the Tongass.
Numerous studies show that an intact forest provides more jobs, revenue and conservation benefits than a forest that is logged. The U.S. Forest Service's own studies show that national forests provide 31 times more revenue and 38 times more jobs from recreation and tourism than from logging. Logging accounts for only two percent of the Southeast Alaska's economy. The bulks of jobs in the region come from tourism and recreation, government agencies and retail business. The economic backbone of Southeast Alaska is and has always been commercial fishing, an industry that is tied to the health and well being of the ecosystem.
You can find another job goathead. Animals can't apply for re-training grants!
Sorry, I won't shed a tear for the welfare for millioniare loggers!
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/the- ... est-alaska
The Tongass Rainforest: Alaska's Crown Jewel
Under Threat by the Bush Administration
Washington, DC, International — Many consider the Tongass National Forest to be the "crown jewel" of our national forest system. Governor Murkowski of Alaska, and the Bush administration are agressively pursuing this ecological wonderland for logging.
Logging the Tongass
Southeast Alaska, the 500-mile long panhandle of Alaska, is rainforest country. It is a lush area of a thousand forested islands and fiords near the northern end of the great coastal temperate rainforest that sweeps far northward from the California redwoods up along the Gulf of Alaska. This kind of forest, found in several countries, was always the rarest forest type on Earth. Because of this rarity and a history of intense logging, it is even more threatened than tropical rainforests. About one-third of the old-growth temperate rainforest remaining on Earth is in the Alaska panhandle -- and although the forest here is still intact, it is in great jeopardy.
Surprisingly, the great ancient rainforest of Alaska's panhandle has no official name. We call it the "Tongass Rainforest." Once, the Tongass National Forest was comprised of the entire Tongass Rainforest. Over recent decades, however, much of the best forestland has been turned over from the national forest to private ownership and the State of Alaska. Although reduced in size, at 17-million acres the Tongass National Forest is now about the size of West Virginia and is still by far our largest national forest.
The Tongass Rainforest is home to an abundance of wildlife unlike anywhere else in the United States -- five species of salmon, whales, grizzly bears, black bears, wolves, black tail deer, wolverines and magnificent birds such as the bald eagle, northern goshawk and marbled murrelet.
Looking at either the Tongass Rainforest as a whole or just the Tongass National Forest, most of the landmass actually is not forested. Fully two-thirds of it is rock, ice, muskeg and shrub forest. The remaining third is so-called "productive forest" or "commercial forest," but trees on the majority even of this third are so small they are unattractive to the logging industry, and the habitat they offer is not exceptional. The fight over logging here is primarily over a small fraction of the forest -- the big-trees.
Logging In the Tongass: Introduction
On the Tongass National Forest -- the part of the Tongass Rainforest that you own as an American citizen -- the Bush administration recently dismantled forest protection that had been enacted through the strongly expressed will of the people. Under President Clinton, the Roadless Area Conservation Rule was enacted to protect nearly one-third of the 192 million acres in the national forest system, nationwide. These "roadless" areas contain some of the last remaining wild places in the country. Despite the Rule's wild popularity with the American public and Bush's pledge to uphold the rule if elected, his administration recently withdrew the Tongass National Forest from the Rule's protection. The 9.3 million acres (not all of it forested) in the Tongass National Forest that have lost this protection include much of the critical old-growth habitat in this last, largest remaining chunk of coastal temperate rainforest. This puts much of the heart of Alaska's rainforest, once again, back on the chopping block.
Logging companies have targeted the big-tree ancient forest stands that provide the best wildlife habitat in the Tongass Rainforest. To date, a million acres of this big-tree forest have been clearcut, making this rare forest type within the Tongass Rainforest rarer still. The timber industry is tearing out the biological heart of the Tongass Rainforest, with approximately half of the big-tree stands gone.
Another root of the problem with logging in the Tongass Rainforest is that it is marginally economic, even during the best of times. Accordingly, logging on private and public lands in the Tongass Rainforest has been heavily subsidized, and industry's strategy has been to log the best of the forest first, then the best of what is left. Political pressure has stymied much-needed forest protections at both the congressional and agency levels, although there have been some substantial successes over time.
The United States Forest Service: Getting the Cut Out
While about half of the big-tree ancient forest and two-thirds of the biggest-tree stands have been decimated, the United States Forest Service has for decades hidden these facts from the public and Congress. The Forest Service uses statistics to imply that all 17 million acres of the Tongass National "Forest" is indeed all forested -- while in reality, two-thirds of it is not. The agency also abuses data on forest composition by using statistical slight-of-hand to embellish the small acreage of big-tree forest with vast acreages having dense stands of small trees, erroneously claiming that tree density alone, not forest canopy structure, creates good habitat.
Logging on Privately Owned Lands and the Forest Service's Responsibility
The impact of logging on the Tongass National Forest has been extreme, but acre for acre the impact of logging on private lands in the Tongass Rainforest, conducted now for about a quarter-century, is even worse. Conservation organizations have fewer tools for dealing with forest exploitation on private land because of private property rights. Greenpeace advocates that the corporations logging on private lands in the Tongass Rainforest bring their operations up to Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) standards. The FSC is a non-profit organization devoted to encouraging the responsible management of the world's forests. Obtaining FSC certification assures that environmental, social, cultural and economic harm is minimized and that an operation is sustainable, informs consumers and benefits the corporation in the marketplace. This would be a marked improvement over current practices.
Another dimension of private forestlands in the Tongass Rainforest is that they are intermingled with lands of the Tongass National Forest. Although the public has limited power controlling logging on private lands, management of the national forest can and should compensate as much as possible for destructive practices on the private forest. In fact, the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) requires the Forest Service to consider cumulative environmental impacts when making decisions and to release an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). Cumulative impacts include those that accrue over time from more than one project, or that cross land ownerships. Unfortunately, the Forest Service has been steadfast in its refusal to consider the massive clearcuts and extreme impacts of logging on nearby private land as it plans its own projects.
Wanted: Your Taxes for Clearcuts
Adding insult to injury, your taxpayer dollars subsidize the timber industry in Alaska's rainforest, both on public and private lands. The remoteness of the Tongass Rainforest and its rugged terrain make it the most expensive place to log in America. Since 1980, logging on the Tongass National Forest has cost Americans nearly one billion dollars, and is still losing an average of $35 million per year - the biggest money loser in the national forest system. Whether on private or public forestland, and even when clearcutting the most valuable stands of the Tongass Rainforest, logging has proven to be a boondoggle.
In addition, corporations logging their own lands in Alaska are allowed to sell their "net operating losses" at a discount to other corporations, which then write off those losses on their own taxes. This is a practice that was ended elsewhere in the nation years ago, and it has artificially enabled the corporations to abuse their lands and degrade the integrity of the Tongass Rainforest with logging operations that are not economic. As always, the public pays more taxes to make up for the lost revenues when corporations don't pay their fare share.
The Jobs Myth
Most of the wood from the Tongass is exported to Asia or shipped to the contiguous U.S with little or no processing. Our tax dollars and our precious rainforest are being squandered, and so too are the jobs that could have been provided to fully process the wood in the U.S. The economy of Southeast Alaska has not been dependent on timber for years. In a region with a population of 75,000, there are only 650 remaining timber-related jobs in Southeast Alaska, down from a decade ago when the timber industry employed 5,000. The single largest employer in the region is still commercial fishing. The second largest employer is tourism and recreation. The bulk of jobs in the region are with the local, state, and federal government, and retail. According to the Alaska Department of Labor, tourism-related employment has steadily grown, and with falling employment in the logging sector, now provides almost 20 times more jobs than logging in the Tongass.
Numerous studies show that an intact forest provides more jobs, revenue and conservation benefits than a forest that is logged. The U.S. Forest Service's own studies show that national forests provide 31 times more revenue and 38 times more jobs from recreation and tourism than from logging. Logging accounts for only two percent of the Southeast Alaska's economy. The bulks of jobs in the region come from tourism and recreation, government agencies and retail business. The economic backbone of Southeast Alaska is and has always been commercial fishing, an industry that is tied to the health and well being of the ecosystem.
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
http://www.house.gov/chabot/tongass06.html
STEVE CHABOT
MEMBER OF CONGRESS
FIRST DISTRICT, OHIO
NEWS
129 Cannon House Office Building
Washington D.C. 20515
(202) 225-2216
441 Vine Street, Room 3003
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
(513) 684-2723
For Immediate Release
Date: May 18, 2006
Chabot Blocks Tax Dollars to Tongass Logging Roads
Washington, D.C. -- Congressman Steve Chabot (R-Cincinnati) and Congressman Robert Andrews (D-NJ) successfully offered an amendment to the Interior appropriations bill to prohibit taxpayer dollars from being used to subsidize the construction of logging roads in the Tongass National Forest in Alaska. The Chabot-Andrews Tongass Amendment passed the House of Representatives today with a bipartisan vote of 237-181.
�It�s a great victory for the American taxpayer,� said Chabot. �Each year the timber industry is subsidized by millions of tax dollars for logging in the Tongass � almost a billion dollars since 1982. If the Senate does its job, we�ll finally end this egregious example of corporate welfare.�
While the Forest Service admits to having a substantial supply of timber accessible from existing roads, logging roads continue to be built despite a lack of demand. Almost fifty percent of Tongass timber contracts go unsold and those that do sell remain largely unprofitable. Timber-related jobs in the Tongass have fallen to just 293 in 2004. Tongass timber jobs are now subsidized at a staggering $163,000 per year by American taxpayers.
The Chabot-Andrews Amendment has been endorsed by a number of pro-taxpayer, environmental, and sportsmen groups, including: Council for Citizens Against Government Waste; National Taxpayers Union; Wildlife Forever; Northern Sportsmen Network; National Wildlife Federation; Sierra Club; U.S. PIRG; and the Alaska Coalition.
Established in 1907 by President Theodore Roosevelt, the Tongass is our nation�s largest forest � about the size of West Virginia. Located along Alaska�s southeastern coast, it�s often referred to as �America�s Rainforest�.
In 2004 the Chabot-Andrews Tongass Amendment successfully passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 222-205. However, the Senate never considered the Interior Appropriations bill and the agencies were funded by an omnibus appropriations bill that did not include the amendment. Last year, opponents of the amendment blocked consideration by the use of a procedural motion.
STEVE CHABOT
MEMBER OF CONGRESS
FIRST DISTRICT, OHIO
NEWS
129 Cannon House Office Building
Washington D.C. 20515
(202) 225-2216
441 Vine Street, Room 3003
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
(513) 684-2723
For Immediate Release
Date: May 18, 2006
Chabot Blocks Tax Dollars to Tongass Logging Roads
Washington, D.C. -- Congressman Steve Chabot (R-Cincinnati) and Congressman Robert Andrews (D-NJ) successfully offered an amendment to the Interior appropriations bill to prohibit taxpayer dollars from being used to subsidize the construction of logging roads in the Tongass National Forest in Alaska. The Chabot-Andrews Tongass Amendment passed the House of Representatives today with a bipartisan vote of 237-181.
�It�s a great victory for the American taxpayer,� said Chabot. �Each year the timber industry is subsidized by millions of tax dollars for logging in the Tongass � almost a billion dollars since 1982. If the Senate does its job, we�ll finally end this egregious example of corporate welfare.�
While the Forest Service admits to having a substantial supply of timber accessible from existing roads, logging roads continue to be built despite a lack of demand. Almost fifty percent of Tongass timber contracts go unsold and those that do sell remain largely unprofitable. Timber-related jobs in the Tongass have fallen to just 293 in 2004. Tongass timber jobs are now subsidized at a staggering $163,000 per year by American taxpayers.
The Chabot-Andrews Amendment has been endorsed by a number of pro-taxpayer, environmental, and sportsmen groups, including: Council for Citizens Against Government Waste; National Taxpayers Union; Wildlife Forever; Northern Sportsmen Network; National Wildlife Federation; Sierra Club; U.S. PIRG; and the Alaska Coalition.
Established in 1907 by President Theodore Roosevelt, the Tongass is our nation�s largest forest � about the size of West Virginia. Located along Alaska�s southeastern coast, it�s often referred to as �America�s Rainforest�.
In 2004 the Chabot-Andrews Tongass Amendment successfully passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 222-205. However, the Senate never considered the Interior Appropriations bill and the agencies were funded by an omnibus appropriations bill that did not include the amendment. Last year, opponents of the amendment blocked consideration by the use of a procedural motion.
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goathead
- Posts: 5341
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:02 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Location: Where I live is not far from home.
Yep, thats right I don't know shit about the system.Apollonaris Zeus wrote:You don't know shit about the effects of grazing in the desert. Its a welfare system! Cattle are the biggest reason for the decline of wildflowers in mountains and the spread of non-indigenous plants of the west as well as the decline of native fish and stream health. Compare the number of grazing units required acres in Basin as compared to required grazing units in the east. 1,000:2
No Fuck you twice Goathead.
I just know people who are waiting for those fucking welfare checks your talking about.
They sure seem to work their asses of while they are waiting though.
While in the mean time having to deal with the FUCKING BLM trying to kick their feet out from under them eery time they turn around.
FUCK the BLM and FUCK YOU.
I guess their check is in the mail?
Fuck Your Day.
LMAO
Silly me, none of them are named Amour, ConAgri.
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goathead
- Posts: 5341
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:02 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Location: Where I live is not far from home.
Some one from Ohio, fucking with the people of Alaska?Apollonaris Zeus wrote:http://www.house.gov/chabot/tongass06.html
STEVE CHABOT
MEMBER OF CONGRESS
FIRST DISTRICT, OHIO
NEWS
129 Cannon House Office Building
Washington D.C. 20515
(202) 225-2216
441 Vine Street, Room 3003
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
(513) 684-2723
For Immediate Release
Date: May 18, 2006
Chabot Blocks Tax Dollars to Tongass Logging Roads
Washington, D.C. -- Congressman Steve Chabot (R-Cincinnati) and Congressman Robert Andrews (D-NJ) successfully offered an amendment to the Interior appropriations bill to prohibit taxpayer dollars from being used to subsidize the construction of logging roads in the Tongass National Forest in Alaska. The Chabot-Andrews Tongass Amendment passed the House of Representatives today with a bipartisan vote of 237-181.
�It�s a great victory for the American taxpayer,� said Chabot. �Each year the timber industry is subsidized by millions of tax dollars for logging in the Tongass � almost a billion dollars since 1982. If the Senate does its job, we�ll finally end this egregious example of corporate welfare.�
While the Forest Service admits to having a substantial supply of timber accessible from existing roads, logging roads continue to be built despite a lack of demand. Almost fifty percent of Tongass timber contracts go unsold and those that do sell remain largely unprofitable. Timber-related jobs in the Tongass have fallen to just 293 in 2004. Tongass timber jobs are now subsidized at a staggering $163,000 per year by American taxpayers.
The Chabot-Andrews Amendment has been endorsed by a number of pro-taxpayer, environmental, and sportsmen groups, including: Council for Citizens Against Government Waste; National Taxpayers Union; Wildlife Forever; Northern Sportsmen Network; National Wildlife Federation; Sierra Club; U.S. PIRG; and the Alaska Coalition.
Established in 1907 by President Theodore Roosevelt, the Tongass is our nation�s largest forest � about the size of West Virginia. Located along Alaska�s southeastern coast, it�s often referred to as �America�s Rainforest�.
In 2004 the Chabot-Andrews Tongass Amendment successfully passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 222-205. However, the Senate never considered the Interior Appropriations bill and the agencies were funded by an omnibus appropriations bill that did not include the amendment. Last year, opponents of the amendment blocked consideration by the use of a procedural motion.
Doesn't fucking OHIO have any problems for him to worry about?
Wonder how much money the feds spend each year in fucking OHIO?
Fuck You
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
Goathead, I think you needed to read the one key word below about how serious I was on some of these issues.
On federal tax to state distribution, this might enlighten you.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Publi ... -2005.html
Ohio gets $.47 and ranks 44th, NJ $.40 of every dollar paid and ranks 49th.
Alaska sits at number 4 and gets a return of every dollar paid of 2:1, Nevada gets $.80 and is 40th.
Personally, I don't want to end cattle grazing, logging or even mining on public lands. i just want better management of resources and a better return especially when (and as you said) the commodities futures allow it.
Anyway it was a good rant on your part and thanks for giving me a chance to reveal some facts.
AIIZ
But since you wasn't to fuck me, I thought you should earn it- I don't come that cheap.Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Just Kiddin'ygmir wrote:Just the Tongass, or, everywhere? Why the tongass?Apollonaris Zeus wrote: Never not in the tongass rainforest that's why!
And we're going to close all public lands to grazing!
Then close all the Gold mines that use cyanide!
And all those coal fired plants in Nevada that have destroyed the air quality!
All public lands, no grazing?
Cyanide? I didn't think they use it much anymore.
I'm always curious about how far someone wants to go to stop things, but, still live as they do?
And, make sure everyone else lives as said person thinks they should.
Just wonderin'............
But the tongass rainforest was the last intact rainforest left and Steven sold it off for pennies a boardfoot. Originally, the logs were shipped to japan as raw cuts instead of being milled here and creating jobs. Now they have to be processed in america.
The tongass is one of those useless wilderness that no one ever used except for a few moose, deer and black bears. Right! Wrong!
At a time of when we need carbon sinks and oxygen, they're priceless!
did anyone notice the new Caution Fog signs on I80 at Battle Mountain. The fog is new and caused by several coal fired plants! Totally fucked up!
Nevada doesn't need them and if they do why didn't they put our finest scrubbers on them. A waste! I don't even visit that section of Nevada, 55mi, so they don't get my tourist bucks! did you know that the second largest geyser basin outside of Yellowstone and fifth largest in the world sits near Battle Mtn- Beowawe.
Oh they are gone too because they drilled it for geothermal energy! Too fucking bad because it could have been one of the biggest attractions on that long road from SLC to Reno 911!
No stops in the Battle Mountain area anymore!
AIIZ
On federal tax to state distribution, this might enlighten you.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Publi ... -2005.html
Ohio gets $.47 and ranks 44th, NJ $.40 of every dollar paid and ranks 49th.
Alaska sits at number 4 and gets a return of every dollar paid of 2:1, Nevada gets $.80 and is 40th.
Personally, I don't want to end cattle grazing, logging or even mining on public lands. i just want better management of resources and a better return especially when (and as you said) the commodities futures allow it.
Anyway it was a good rant on your part and thanks for giving me a chance to reveal some facts.
AIIZ
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goathead
- Posts: 5341
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:02 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Location: Where I live is not far from home.
I love the per capita stuff, sort of like lets take Empire/Gerlach, "population appx 500" and the money spent on hwy 447, compared to the per capita of funds spent on Las Vegas, "population 1,000,000 ??"Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Goathead, I think you needed to read the one key word below about how serious I was on some of these issues.
Anyway it was a good rant on your part and thanks for giving me a chance to reveal some facts.
AIIZ
It desn't take much of a project to skewer the fuck out of the numbers for Empire/Gerlach.
So I guess if your concerned about return on investment then we should demand all of the public transit systems should operate on a for profit or at least a break even/invest for improvments basis?
By the way my sister is a Doc in Ketchikan, she has been up there for many years.
Those people out of work, where her patients and friends. There are kids she delivered and that are now LEAVING because they don't want to change bedsheets.
I don't think much of TOUR RAT JOBS.
This has been fun though.
Thank You for not taking the Fuck You personal.
FUCK YOUR DAY.
Oh by the way the reason nobody stops in Battle Mountain is because of the freeway. If you don't need gas no reason to pull off, same with Lovelock. Also do you think MAYBE the reason for the fog signs might have to do with the Humbolt River and inversion systems?
But what the fuck do I know......
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ygmir
- Posts: 30403
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
- Burning Since: 2007
- Camp Name: qqqq
- Location: nevada county
silly:goathead wrote:My Dad use to take us up there to hunt chucker.ygmir wrote:well,
there is some really good rock hunting in Battle Mountain and Lovelock areas..........I stop a lot.
Ever been to Midas?
I know better then to chase those silly birds up and down the mountains though.
hehehehe...
that's why you use a shotgun, instead of a stick........
I have land in Midas, been going there for years. Lots of chucker, and sage hens......
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
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Elderberry
- Moderator
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- Contact:
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
You mean we're not going to have sex!goathead wrote: Thank You for not taking the Fuck You personal.
FUCK YOUR DAY.
Fuck!
I used to get a kick out of being harassed on the streets of Black Rock by members of the "Fuck You" Camp.
They would actually apologize after their rant, that they didn't really mean it and I'd say, "now you're really ruining the effect!" Of course I knew they were just being sarcastic and I'm sure they ran into the "Literal" people that probably just got upset and tried to murder them.
I wouldn't judge anyone on Eplaya too seriously. Why? Because you can never fully know someone by their posts. We are a lot more complex then this superficial forum.
So have a nice fuckin Day!
AIIZ
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Elderberry
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Huh? So are you saying we are all just sock puppets of ourselves here??Apollonaris Zeus wrote:
I wouldn't judge anyone on Eplaya too seriously. Why? Because you can never fully know someone by their posts. We are a lot more complex then this superficial forum.
So have a nice fuckin Day!
AIIZ
JK
Elderberry
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me
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goathead
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How did you wind up with land in Midas?ygmir wrote:silly:goathead wrote:My Dad use to take us up there to hunt chucker.ygmir wrote:well,
there is some really good rock hunting in Battle Mountain and Lovelock areas..........I stop a lot.
Ever been to Midas?
I know better then to chase those silly birds up and down the mountains though.
hehehehe...
that's why you use a shotgun, instead of a stick........
I have land in Midas, been going there for years. Lots of chucker, and sage hens......
Silly
When you know the water source you let the birdie's come to you....
Then you use the shotgun.
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ygmir
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I've been going out there rockhounding since '80, and, with friends that've been going since the '50's.......I bought some lots in town, but, never have gotten around to building a cabin.......goathead wrote:How did you wind up with land in Midas?ygmir wrote:silly:goathead wrote: My Dad use to take us up there to hunt chucker.
I know better then to chase those silly birds up and down the mountains though.
hehehehe...
that's why you use a shotgun, instead of a stick........
I have land in Midas, been going there for years. Lots of chucker, and sage hens......
Silly
When you know the water source you let the birdie's come to you....
Then you use the shotgun.
Silly:
but, you said you got tired running up and down hills.........
I've not done so well hunting out there.......they always let me hold the burlap sack with the flashlight in the end, but, I sit there all night and never catch a snipe..........
YGMIR
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goathead
- Posts: 5341
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LOL, nope. My sexual rights have been all booked up by my Sweetie.Apollonaris Zeus wrote: You mean we're not going to have sex!
Fuck!
I used to get a kick out of being harassed on the streets of Black Rock by members of the "Fuck You" Camp.
They would actually apologize after their rant, that they didn't really mean it and I'd say, "now you're really ruining the effect!" Of course I knew they were just being sarcastic and I'm sure they ran into the "Literal" people that probably just got upset and tried to murder them.
I wouldn't judge anyone on Eplaya too seriously. Why? Because you can never fully know someone by their posts. We are a lot more complex then this superficial forum.
So have a nice fuckin Day!
AIIZ
LMAO, she doesn't share well.
Did they have the "Fuck You Bar" why out in the middle of the playa also?
One year we camped next to the "Mormon Missionaries" man they where a kick in the ass. Woke us up one night about 3 am when they broke their "Fucking Bible Chair" laughing like hell......
Doing a little reloading.
Going to try calling some coyotes.
Don't mater if I get one or not, it will still be a good FUCKING day.
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ygmir
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if you're going to "cal" some coyotes, does that mean you're chasing them over here?............dang, we have enough, especially in the capital............goathead wrote:LOL, nope. My sexual rights have been all booked up by my Sweetie.Apollonaris Zeus wrote: You mean we're not going to have sex!
Fuck!
I used to get a kick out of being harassed on the streets of Black Rock by members of the "Fuck You" Camp.
They would actually apologize after their rant, that they didn't really mean it and I'd say, "now you're really ruining the effect!" Of course I knew they were just being sarcastic and I'm sure they ran into the "Literal" people that probably just got upset and tried to murder them.
I wouldn't judge anyone on Eplaya too seriously. Why? Because you can never fully know someone by their posts. We are a lot more complex then this superficial forum.
So have a nice fuckin Day!
AIIZ
LMAO, she doesn't share well.
Did they have the "Fuck You Bar" why out in the middle of the playa also?
One year we camped next to the "Mormon Missionaries" man they where a kick in the ass. Woke us up one night about 3 am when they broke their "Fucking Bible Chair" laughing like hell......
Doing a little reloading.
Going to try calling some coyotes.
Don't mater if I get one or not, it will still be a good FUCKING day.
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
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Unabashed Nordic
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goathead
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Your deserving though, you need MORE....ygmir wrote: if you're going to "cal" some coyotes, does that mean you're chasing them over here?............dang, we have enough, especially in the capital............
Eat sheep 7 million fucking coyotes can't be wrong.
Fucking fingers, just don't listen to what I tell them to type sometimes.
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Sail Man
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ygmir wrote:you may want to research mining procedure, especially low grade ores, before making that statement........Sail Man wrote:Cyanide, what a nasty cocktail...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0333.html
Personally, i could do without using chemicals to mine ore's. Besides, blowing shit up is wayyy more fun
hmmm, what statement are you referring too
Excuse me Ma'am, your going to feel a small prick.
_______________________________________
Algorithms never survive the first thirty seconds of patient contact
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Algorithms never survive the first thirty seconds of patient contact
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theCryptofishist
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Maybe you blow shit up to mine low grade ores. (Actually, now that I think of it, doesn't mining involve a lot of TNT at least?) Or else mining low grade ores uses something worse than cyanide.Sail Man wrote:ygmir wrote:you may want to research mining procedure, especially low grade ores, before making that statement........Sail Man wrote:Cyanide, what a nasty cocktail...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0333.html
Personally, i could do without using chemicals to mine ore's. Besides, blowing shit up is wayyy more fun 8)
hmmm, what statement are you referring too :?
How much refined metal ends up in us landfills every years, do you suppose?
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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ygmir
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I refer to blowing stuff up.Sail Man wrote:ygmir wrote:you may want to research mining procedure, especially low grade ores, before making that statement........Sail Man wrote:Cyanide, what a nasty cocktail...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0333.html
Personally, i could do without using chemicals to mine ore's. Besides, blowing shit up is wayyy more fun
hmmm, what statement are you referring too
you still have to use the chemicals to extract, especially low grade ore.
you blow it up to make it small enough to handle, but, the extraction process is still separate.
Some use chemicals, some gravity, some even hand sorting, just depends on the operation and material.
but, I was just saying that blowing stuff up will not change the use of chemicals.
Fishy:
you blow stuff up in many mining operations. Some material is soft enough to directly dig with machinery, though.
Blowing stuff up usually is not dependent on how rich the material is...and, most really high grade mines have been played out.........so, it takes massive ore processing to extract values.
I think the stuff that replaces cyanide in gold operations, is less toxic.....but, there are many things mined besides gold, and, many chemicals used.......even the process of mining can release nasty stuff that's already there.........several mines leach really bad stuff just from the ground water that flows out naturally.........
And,
literally millions of dollars of already refined metals and such are put in the landfills.
The problem is twofold:
one is getting people to recycle and efficiently at that.
and,
the cost of re-processing said recycled materials is often more than mining it...........
I've liked the idea some states use of huge deposits on things, returnable at the recycle point.
It not only gets people to bring their empties, old computers, whatever in, but, is incentive for others to go around collecting them.........
well,
that's my take on it, anyway.......
YGMIR
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Apollonaris Zeus
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Elderberry
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